Rate My Team - OU

[Bribery]

Return to Competitive Battling Team (OU)

scrapped.

 

[Solidus]

Pretty standard offensive team that isn't that weak to SR nor T-Spikes and has a strong late game sweeper and competent clean uppers in Infernape and Scizor. First off, Metagross looks fine and I wouldn't change it in any significant way so kudos to you, and those extra Speed EV's come in handy against those much common mirror matches, so yeah, nice job. There is something you can attempt to try out if you want, but it's not required. Going for a standard Scarf Metagross is what I'm talking about, so that you can screw up your opponents lead by Tricking your Scarf onto them, more so those very common leads like Azelf, but other common leads like Jirachi and other Metagross won't really be affected by Scarf since the former will usually already have a Scarf and the latter will benefit from the Scarf. Heatran will also benefit from a Scarf, but these are only concerns if you decide to go for a Scarf Gross. If not, disregard that. Now for Scizor, you also did a great job with and functions well, but make sure you constantly U-Turn early throughout the match so that you won't be caught by surprise by a Scarf Zone and scouting is really useful at determining your opponents playstyle and what they might have that can put you in danger. Of course, you're also going to want to soften up those bulky Waters with U-Turn and proceed to switch to Latias for the finishing move, Draco Meteor. This strategy gets rid of near all bulky Waters, namely Swampert who you said troubled you, and this will really aid Infernape at being sort of a 'back up mid or late game sweeper', if I must say. This will also higher Gyarados' sweeping potential since HP Electrics from Suicune and Vaporeon, for instance, will 2HKO Gyara. Now with Latias being the best Gyarados check in your team (although not a good check overall), I want you to consider going for a NP Mixape. This gives your team a bit more specially offensive flow outside of Latias. Even though this won't necessarily be a reliable check to Gyarados, boosted Grass Knots will hurt him and will be your back up protection just in case anything wrong goes with Swampert, of which one of my next suggestions is going to be for.

But for now, my main focus is on Gyarados. Go ahead, take same EV's from Speed and put them into HP. Your current spread really only allows you to outrun Adamant Tyranitar who isn't going to safely switch into Gyarados anyways. Being realistic, we have to come up with threats that are going to be switching into you on a usual basis. Speed wise, you're not going to have to worry about most Waters with the exception of Starmie. Gengar is a little slower than Starmie, so a good Speed mark would be just enough to outrun those two, both of which will be running Thunderbolt usually. So to sum it up, 132 EV's is enough to do the job. You'll be outrunning Timid Starmie after a DD and if SR is in play (which it should be), you might be able to KO Starmie with some luck. Scarf Gengar and Rotom are out of the picture though and won't be outrun, so play mind games and figure out what their reactions will be and switch to the proper counter when those two come out. Now for Swampert, I want you to drop Roar for Stone Edge so that you can hit Gyarados. Honestly, I believe stat uppers/Baton Passeres won't be giving you such a hard time if Scizor and Metagross are still in play since their Bullet Punches will stop them from succeeding, but Gliscor and Jolteon (who can pass boosts from Charge Beam) can still pull of their respective Baton Passes since Bullet Punches won't be hurting them so much. Speaking of which, if Swampert is out already anyways, then you can just Avalanche or Earthquake, respectively, and OHKO them. If you really want to manage a OHKO against Gliscor, then you should just drop Avalanche for Ice Beam but the common Yache Berry will prevent that OHKO from happening if it hasn't yet been activated.

Good team though. Try these suggestions out and see how they work for you. If you're still having problems or have any questions then I'll check back here.

 

[Bribery]

Pretty standard offensive team that isn't that weak to SR nor T-Spikes and has a strong late game sweeper and competent clean uppers in Infernape and Scizor. First off, Metagross looks fine and I wouldn't change it in any significant way so kudos to you, and those extra Speed EV's come in handy against those much common mirror matches, so yeah, nice job. There is something you can attempt to try out if you want, but it's not required. Going for a standard Scarf Metagross is what I'm talking about, so that you can screw up your opponents lead by Tricking your Scarf onto them, more so those very common leads like Azelf, but other common leads like Jirachi and other Metagross won't really be affected by Scarf since the former will usually already have a Scarf and the latter will benefit from the Scarf. Heatran will also benefit from a Scarf, but these are only concerns if you decide to go for a Scarf Gross. If not, disregard that.

ScarfGross sounds interesting but I think the standard lead would be better. ScarfGross still can't do much against Bronzong and Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch usually allow me to take out Azelf and Aerodactyl without Scarf anyways. I just don't see the point of tossing Choice Scarf on it. Plus, I already have 2 other Choice items on my team. 3 could backfire late game.

Now for Scizor, you also did a great job with and functions well, but make sure you constantly U-Turn early throughout the match so that you won't be caught by surprise by a Scarf Zone and scouting is really useful at determining your opponents playstyle and what they might have that can put you in danger. Of course, you're also going to want to soften up those bulky Waters with U-Turn and proceed to switch to Latias for the finishing move, Draco Meteor. This strategy gets rid of near all bulky Waters, namely Swampert who you said troubled you, and this will really aid Infernape at being sort of a 'back up mid or late game sweeper', if I must say. This will also higher Gyarados' sweeping potential since HP Electrics from Suicune and Vaporeon, for instance, will 2HKO Gyara. Now with Latias being the best Gyarados check in your team (although not a good check overall), I want you to consider going for a NP Mixape. This gives your team a bit more specially offensive flow outside of Latias. Even though this won't necessarily be a reliable check to Gyarados, boosted Grass Knots will hurt him and will be your back up protection just in case anything wrong goes with Swampert, of which one of my next suggestions is going to be for.

NP Mixape sounds great, especially since Latias doesn't last very long in some cases. The only problem I have with this is that the lack of HP:Ice makes it difficult for me to deal with Latias on the switch, Gliscors, or possibly revenge kill Salamence. My only other Ice attack on this team is Avalanche from Swampert.

But for now, my main focus is on Gyarados. Go ahead, take same EV's from Speed and put them into HP. Your current spread really only allows you to outrun Adamant Tyranitar who isn't going to safely switch into Gyarados anyways. Being realistic, we have to come up with threats that are going to be switching into you on a usual basis. Speed wise, you're not going to have to worry about most Waters with the exception of Starmie. Gengar is a little slower than Starmie, so a good Speed mark would be just enough to outrun those two, both of which will be running Thunderbolt usually. So to sum it up, 132 EV's is enough to do the job. You'll be outrunning Timid Starmie after a DD and if SR is in play (which it should be), you might be able to KO Starmie with some luck. Scarf Gengar and Rotom are out of the picture though and won't be outrun, so play mind games and figure out what their reactions will be and switch to the proper counter when those two come out.

I thought the 184 EV's in speed are also needed to outspeed a Timid Starmie with 252 Speed Evs, at least that's what it says according to Smogon's Gyarados analysis. Well, unless I'm calculating it incorrectly, I only need 176 Speed EVs to outspeed it, since that'll put my speed at 363 after 1 Dragon Dance, beating max Positive Speed Starmie by 2 speed. ScarfGengar hasn't been too much of a problem for me. Swampert is great for absorbing Thunderbolt while Scizor can usually switch in safely on Gengar's other attacks and KO it with Bullet Punch.

I noticed that Celebi is still quite a problem for Gyarados so I've been considering using Bounce over Stone Edge. With STAB and weakness, it should take out a chunk of Celebi's HP and the type coverage is great since only Empoleon and Lanturn resist Water and Flying. Bounce still does decent damage against other Gyarados if I catch them on the switch but it doesn't guarantee a KO like Stone Edge does.

Now for Swampert, I want you to drop Roar for Stone Edge so that you can hit Gyarados. Honestly, I believe stat uppers/Baton Passeres won't be giving you such a hard time if Scizor and Metagross are still in play since their Bullet Punches will stop them from succeeding, but Gliscor and Jolteon (who can pass boosts from Charge Beam) can still pull of their respective Baton Passes since Bullet Punches won't be hurting them so much. Speaking of which, if Swampert is out already anyways, then you can just Avalanche or Earthquake, respectively, and OHKO them. If you really want to manage a OHKO against Gliscor, then you should just drop Avalanche for Ice Beam but the common Yache Berry will prevent that OHKO from happening if it hasn't yet been activated.

Roar is amazing against things like Tyranitar, Gyarados, and Salamence. Once they get 1 Dance in it's quite possible that they can sweep my entire team. Metagross and Scizor are both useless against Gyarados and the popular Babiri Berry/Fire Punch combo on the standard DDTar make Scizor and Metagross somewhat unreliable counters to DDTar. Swampert is great because it can take most of their hits and then Roar them away to get rid of those stat boosts. I can see the use for Stone Edge though, since Swampert can't do much against Gyarados except Roar. Would Stone Edge be a better choice over Protect?

Good team though. Try these suggestions out and see how they work for you. If you're still having problems or have any questions then I'll check back here.

Thanks for the suggestions! I editted in some weaknesses I've seen into my post. I'm not sure if they're actual weaknesses or if it's just my inexperience at this time. :P

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

I am going to suggest using Porygon2 instead of Swampert for your defensive needs. The standard Porygon2 set can take on Salamence, Gyarados, and Heatran. That's pretty great considering you have trouble with these Pokemon. It also fits quite well into your team with its single weakness covered well by Latias and Gyarados.

 

[Solidus]

I thought the 184 EV's in speed are also needed to outspeed a Timid Starmie with 252 Speed Evs, at least that's what it says according to Smogon's Gyarados analysis. Well, unless I'm calculating it incorrectly, I only need 176 Speed EVs to outspeed it, since that'll put my speed at 363 after 1 Dragon Dance, beating max Positive Speed Starmie by 2 speed. ScarfGengar hasn't been too much of a problem for me. Swampert is great for absorbing Thunderbolt while Scizor can usually switch in safely on Gengar's other attacks and KO it with Bullet Punch.

Oh yeah, you're right. I was reading quickly and thought Gyarados had a Jolly nature instead of Adamant. Sorry about that.

I noticed that Celebi is still quite a problem for Gyarados so I've been considering using Bounce over Stone Edge. With STAB and weakness, it should take out a chunk of Celebi's HP and the type coverage is great since only Empoleon and Lanturn resist Water and Flying. Bounce still does decent damage against other Gyarados if I catch them on the switch but it doesn't guarantee a KO like Stone Edge does.

Yeah if you want to handle Celebi a little better then I suggest going for a more offensive DD Gyarados with 3 attacks. Earthquake, Waterfall, and Ice Fang will work fine and a 252 spread in Attack and Speed along with throwing on a Life Orb will suffice. Gyarados will take a lot of damage from Grass Knots though so that's only backup. I really think that you can play around Celebi though, so it isn't a huge issue.

Roar is amazing against things like Tyranitar, Gyarados, and Salamence. Once they get 1 Dance in it's quite possible that they can sweep my entire team. Metagross and Scizor are both useless against Gyarados and the popular Babiri Berry/Fire Punch combo on the standard DDTar make Scizor and Metagross somewhat unreliable counters to DDTar. Swampert is great because it can take most of their hits and then Roar them away to get rid of those stat boosts. I can see the use for Stone Edge though, since Swampert can't do much against Gyarados except Roar. Would Stone Edge be a better choice over Protect?

The reason I said this was because I noticed that Gyarados has the potential to cause a big threat to your team. He won't take much damage from Metagross' and Scizor's attacks and Infernape will be KO'd by Waterfall anyways. Even though Swampert can Roar out DD Gyarados that are setting up, if he has one DD up already then he take a chunk off some of your team members. Stone Edge might work better. Again, if you're still having problems with Gyarados, tell me and I'll try to sort it out.

 

[joshe]

Just a few nitpicks for now, as I don't really have time for a full rate. Metagross wants 252 HP/232 atk/12 def/12 spe to not get OHKOed by banded Dugtrio, and you still outspeed other metagrosses who use te standard 8 Spe evs. I also suggest you have explosion>Meteor Mash as you still 2HKO with BP, although you lose out on Azelf, which might be bad for this team.

Secondly I suggest you change Gyarados to jolly and give it the spread 90 Hp/252 Atk/168 spe to outspeed jolteon who would otherwise make quick work of him, and as most carry Hp-Grass for swampert, it'll just be best to take him out quickly.

That's all for now, may update later...

Good Luck

 

[Bribery]

I am going to suggest using Porygon2 instead of Swampert for your defensive needs. The standard Porygon2 set can take on Salamence, Gyarados, and Heatran. That's pretty great considering you have trouble with these Pokemon. It also fits quite well into your team with its single weakness covered well by Latias and Gyarados.

I tried out Porygon2 and...HOLY CRAP why is it still UU? It is an amazing counter to Gyarados, Salamence, and Heatran. I'll definitely replace Swampert with it.

Yeah if you want to handle Celebi a little better then I suggest going for a more offensive DD Gyarados with 3 attacks. Earthquake, Waterfall, and Ice Fang will work fine and a 252 spread in Attack and Speed along with throwing on a Life Orb will suffice. Gyarados will take a lot of damage from Grass Knots though so that's only backup. I really think that you can play around Celebi though, so it isn't a huge issue.

I may have to do that. The lack of Life Orb makes it nearly impossible for my Gyarados to 2hko Celebi after 1 Dance. However, the main reason I don't like the standard offensive Gyarados is the lack of Taunt. That means Celebi is free to use Thunder Wave and Recover to eventually take down Gyarados.

I was considering Dragon Dance/Bounce/Stone Edge/Waterfall with Life Orb. Waterfall and Bounce give great type coverage and Bounce does a lot on Celebi while Stone Edge is still there for opposing Gyarados and Zapdos. Ice Fang wasn't as effective against Celebi as I had hoped. I'm most likely going to use this set.

I tried using Taunt/Bounce/Dragon Dance/Waterfall and I found that this set was the only effective counter to Celebi. Taunt ensures that it can't use Recover while I Bounce. The problem is the lack of Stone Edge makes this lose to Zapdos and other Gyarados.

Just a few nitpicks for now, as I don't really have time for a full rate. Metagross wants 252 HP/232 atk/12 def/12 spe to not get OHKOed by banded Dugtrio, and you still outspeed other metagrosses who use te standard 8 Spe evs. I also suggest you have explosion>Meteor Mash as you still 2HKO with BP, although you lose out on Azelf, which might be bad for this team.

Secondly I suggest you change Gyarados to jolly and give it the spread 90 Hp/252 Atk/168 spe to outspeed jolteon who would otherwise make quick work of him, and as most carry Hp-Grass for swampert, it'll just be best to take him out quickly.

That's all for now, may update later...

Good Luck

Hmm, the only issue I have with those Metagross EVs is that I'm not guaranteed to 2HKO opposing Metagross with Earthquake. I think I'll just use the EVs you suggested anyways since the 2HKO rate is still pretty high.

I prefer not to have Explosion on Metagross simply because it is a great Pokemon for late game clean-ups. Plus the lack of Bullet Punch means I can't quickly take out suicide leads like Azelf and Aerodactyl.

I may go with that Gyarados EV spread if I switch to the offensive variant.


Thanks for all the suggestions guys.


Oh, I decided to go with a Nasty Plot MixApe afterall, like Solidus suggested. I just tried it out and realized how much power its Fire Blast packs.

 

[JolteonsRAWR]

Here's something I've learned:
Using unexpected Pokémon makes it hard for the opponent to figure out what to do to counter it. Using Pory2 is an odd choice, just as the fact I'm using a Jolteon. Hey, odd pokémon kick ass. who can blame 'em? We're always so mean to the poor things, when the kick back, they kick back hard!

 

[Bribery]

Here's something I've learned:
Using unexpected Pokémon makes it hard for the opponent to figure out what to do to counter it. Using Pory2 is an odd choice, just as the fact I'm using a Jolteon. Hey, odd pokémon kick ass. who can blame 'em? We're always so mean to the poor things, when the kick back, they kick back hard!

Yup, Porygon2 still catches people off guard. I'm surprised it hasn't really caught on given how popular Gyarados and Salamence are.

I made some changes to the team:

- Turned Latias back into the Calm Mind set. The ChoiceSpecs set was incredibly powerful but it lacked any form of Recovery so it didn't last very long.

- Brick Break over Superpower on Scizor.

- I changed Gyarados' EVs and nature to Jolly so that it can outspeed Timid Jolteon after a Dragon Dance.

 

[Myzozoa]

no porygon2 on offense please. If you want to play balance then use porygon2, but offense is different. Go back to swampert and use a CB set:

Swampert@ Choice Band
Adamant
EVS:108HP, 204 Attack,96 defense, 100 speed
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stone edge
Choice banded Swampert is going to do a ton of damage on its attacks. If you are worried about defenses you can put more into hp and take some from speed.

Also, your current team is completely helpless against a defensive CM Latias. Defensive Latias can set up on one of your pokemon and proceed to sweep your team.

I recommend a DD Tyranitar for this:
Jolly Tyranitar@Leftovers/Babiri Berry
EVS: 252 speed, 252 attack, 6 hp
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Stone Edge
Crunch

DD Tyranitar is an absolute monster. Consider a match against stall. You throw all your pokemon away in order to weaken up skarm others. Make sure the last pokemon they kill is your gyarados (who will taunt before it dies). Send in Tyranitar DD up and sweep. I've done this many times on my offensive team and I've won.

Also get rid of Scizor. what if something like Kingdra sets up on it while its locked into bullet punch, and your gross was weakened up in the opening phase, Kingdra would wreck your entire team. You cant afford to be locked into a move resisted by so many types. Swampert is a good CBer because he is unexpected, where as everyone expects Scizor to be Choice banded. Swampert can also afford to be locked in to move much more easily than scizor. In OU every team has a CB scizor counter. Where as things that might come in on swampert, may not be expecting him to be CB.

 

[Bribery]

no porygon2 on offense please. If you want to play balance then use porygon2, but offense is different. Go back to swampert and use a CB set:

Swampert@ Choice Band
Adamant
EVS:108HP, 204 Attack,96 defense, 100 speed
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Stone edge
Choice banded Swampert is going to do a ton of damage on its attacks. If you are worried about defenses you can put more into hp and take some from speed.

Porygon2 is a ridiculously reliable counter to DD Gyarados and DD Salamence. It's such a versatile defensive Pokemon that I think it must be on this team which otherwise gets owned by Salamence and Gyarados. Swampert was decent but not a surefire counter against them. Porygon2 is nearly flawless against them.

My team isn't purely offensive. While it is more to the offensive side, I tried to incorporate a bit of defense as well (Bulky Gyarados, Porygon2, Latias).

Also, your current team is completely helpless against a defensive CM Latias. Defensive Latias can set up on one of your pokemon and proceed to sweep your team.

I recommend a DD Tyranitar for this:
Jolly Tyranitar@Leftovers/Babiri Berry
EVS: 252 speed, 252 attack, 6 hp
Dragon Dance
Fire Punch
Stone Edge
Crunch

DD Tyranitar is an absolute monster. Consider a match against stall. You throw all your pokemon away in order to weaken up skarm others. Make sure the last pokemon they kill is your gyarados (who will taunt before it dies). Send in Tyranitar DD up and sweep. I've done this many times on my offensive team and I've won.

Also get rid of Scizor. what if something like Kingdra sets up on it while its locked into bullet punch, and your gross was weakened up in the opening phase, Kingdra would wreck your entire team. You cant afford to be locked into a move resisted by so many types. Swampert is a good CBer because he is unexpected, where as everyone expects Scizor to be Choice banded. Swampert can also afford to be locked in to move much more easily than scizor. In OU every team has a CB scizor counter. Where as things that might come in on swampert, may not be expecting him to be CB.

You are right that I have a Latias problem. As a result, I removed Infernape for Heatran. They basically serve the same purposes (though Heatran lacks a good Physical attack) but it doesn't invite Latias to set up on it.

I will consider Tyranitar over Scizor, though that makes me lose a reliable revenge killer.


I made some changes to the team:

- As mentioned earlier, ScarfTran over MixApe because of Latias.
- Gave Gyarados 224 speed EVs to outspeed ScarfTran after 1 Dance.
- Thunderbolt back on Porygon2 for higher OHKO rate on Gyarados.