Pet Mod Random Dex

[Mossy Sandwich]

Groudon, Kyurem-White and Reshiram are now banned.

While it may have seemed obvious, these 3 titans are now banned from Random Dex. Here's reasoning for all three.
​

Groudon

Groudon has everything, from a massive offensive presence, great bulk and even very good support options between things like Stealth Rocks, Thunder Wave and, especially, Drought. Drought alone makes it incredibly dangerous as it enables Chlorophyll Vensaur which can sweep extremely easily once its checks are weakened. It also doesn't help that both Groudon and Venusaur share a check, Latias, and that Groudon can lure and beat it using a move such as Dragon Claw. However, Groudon isn't just a sun setter. It's also a very dangerous wallbreaker because of its 150 base attack with STAB Earthquake and good coverage options. Having access to sun boosted fire moves to hit Bug and Grass types means it can only be countered by Flying types or pokemon with Levitate. And between Stone Edge for Flying types and Dragon Claw for Latias, this leaves Landorus (Mostly Therian) as its only check. Landorus lacking recovery as well as having trouble stopping Groudon from simply boosting up further if it's a Swords Dance set makes it shaky at best, but it's the safest we have against Groudon. Groudon also has bulk outdoing even something like Hippowdon and, while it lacks recovery, it can help check key threats even with offensive sets thanks to these. Its bulk is also good enough to let it setup on a lot of the metagame if using a Swords Dance set. You get the idea, Groudon just has too many tools and far higher stats than the meta can handle.

Kyurem-White

Kyurem-W has one counter: Specially defensive Florges. Everything else drops to one of Ice Beam, Freeze-Dry, Draco Meteor or Fusion Flare. Even Florges itself has trouble surviving against it with some chip or Stealth Rocks up. And that's just the Specs set. Other sets could be used with it to bypass its checks such as sets using Toxic and Roost. But, even from Specs alone, Kyurem-White is impossible to wall.

Reshiram

Same deal as Kyurem-White, unwallable, only counter is Tapu Fini. The only minor difference this time is that its only counter lacks reliable recovery and that it doesn't need to predict to get kills because Blue Flare obliterates everything except spdef fire resists anyway.

Now you may have expected me to talk about one or more of these four. The reason none of them are banned yet is because I felt that Groudon and Kyurem-White heavily centered the metagame around themselves, forcing things like Florges, Latias and Landorus-T on many teams to try to deal with them. This makes it harder to judge the true strength of these pokemon than in a more balanced format. I believe most of these will be gone in the next ban wave, but it's important to not rush bans. I'll talk about these a bit though.
​

Excadrill

Under sand, Excadrill outspeeds the entire meta except a few scarfers. Along with its Ground/Steel/Rock coverage, it hits the entire meta. It can also boost up with Swords Dance. This makes it nearly impossible to revenge kill and very difficult to stop from sweeping. There are a few decent checks to it though, those being Landorus-T, Hippowdon and maybe things like Zarude and Tapu Fini. With the only competing weather being removed, it'll be interesting to see where Excadrill goes.

Kyurem

Kyurem-White but worse. It's still very dangerous with a Specs set and also has the option of using Sub/Roost. We'll have to see if it can be dealt with more easily of if it's still too much for the format now that its main competition is gone.

Landorus

Incredible power with Sheer Force Earth Power and Sludge Wave. It has to deal with a very hard counter in the form of Latias and many ground immunities such as Landorus itself as well as its therian form and both Moltres forms don't have to worry too much about Sludge Wave. However, the set that scares me with Landorus is Sand Force. A physical set using boosted Earthquakes is going to hit even harder than special Sheer Force sets, but they also get to hit Flying types and Latias with boosted/physically invested Rock Slides and U-Turn. It's still countered by its alternate form though so we'll see.

Spectrier

I'm gonna be honest, I hate this mon, but if there's any meta where it's gonna stay legal, it's here. We have plenty of good dark types and the best one, Zarude, even has Jungle Healing to completely screw Spectrier over. The issue is that yeah, it does Spectrier stuff. Sets using a combination of Will-O-Wisp, Substitute and Nasty Plot can still cheese out a sweep and it's also the fastest pokemon in the meta (well, tied for it). I'm not sure if it's going to be balanced, but I will not hesitate to remove Spectrier from the format.

And there we are. The next discussion phase will begin. While you can talk about whatever you want about the format, the focus of this discussion phase will be the 4 pokemon shown above. ​

 

[Low-Key]

Okay, let's go!


Excadrill is probably going to be an extremely dominant force. It will hit everything, outspeeds everything under sand (except mons that want to use scarf,) however, it's not fully meta dominant because some mons check it.


I'm not sure of how Kyurem will stand in this pet mod, because it is clearly a big boi with some OK counters.


The cloud man is here. Even though it is fairly powerful, I can see it being countered out. It probably isn't powerful, but it's probably really good.


no lol

And now to give some other mons a shout-out:


Latias is free to roam because there's less Steel-types around. It's probably gonna be really good with some fairly respectable counters as well, so I can see it being viable in the near future.


From what I see, Bibarel is given a niche as a Simple sweeper, making its Swords Dance give it a 3x attack boost instead of 2x. While it is pretty good, it has some counters as well, like Zarude if it can outspeed.


Florges is the flower to stop the threats of the tier, and it can dish out its own damage as well. I'm seeing it to be pretty viable!

 

[ViZar]

Excadrill is in my eyes the biggest winner of these bans. The others checks are still common, but Excadrills best check (I would even say counter), Groudon, is gone now. The best checks it has now to its Sand Rush sets are Fini, Lando-T and Hippowdon. The former two lack recovery and are SR neutral, Fini and Hippowdon are 2HKO'd by +2 EQ and all three don't have a Iron resistance. Mold Breaker sets still have Moltres as their checks, but they can still adapt and run Rock Slide. Overall, Excadrill will be the most threatening Pokemon imo.


Kyurem might be weaker than its fusion, but it is still nothing to sleep on. The only notable difference are the -40 points in SpA, however 130 is still stupid strong and it has the ability to 2HKO the entire metagame with the correct prediction. Draco Meteor won't be useful aside from a Kyurem vs Kyurem situation, so Ice Beam/Freeze-Dry/Focus Blast/Earth Power will be optimal Specs set. SubRoost can also work effectively. Having Revengekill immunity and ease with prediction, while stalling walls and still have good coverage. While I think that Drill is more threatening, it needs set-up first while Kyurem is immediately threatening.


Fini, Florges and Zarude will still be common and Spectrier hates them, but Spectrier was still a dominating force in the meta even with them around. There are many great Dark-types and Swellow (which counts as a Dark-type now) + Fini and Florges, but Spectrier can pick and choose its counters. Specs has a devastating damage output, Taunt removes Jungle Healing, Heal Bell and Recovery attempts and Sub abuses walls and prevents revengekilling. It still lacks really good coverage but it is still capable of winning on its own.


This thing was really underwhelming for me. And to be honest, it's easy to see why. Latias and Lando-T are really good checks and Moltres and Bulu do a decent job. Its speed, while being good, isn't enough for other threats like Zarude, Infernape, Tauros and Latias. Scarf sets are also viable, but those give up some power, so it would be easier to wall. I'm not saying its bad, but it's the most underwhelming Pokemon out of them and I honestly think that there are more powerful things in the meta rn.


Before concluding this, I would like to give them a broken ranking. 1 being "not broken" and 10 being "very broken. pls ban"
9/10
8.5/10
7/10
4/10​

 

[DuoM2]

Mossy covered just about my exact thoughts on the first three bans in his post so it's time to post about the next wave.


I have pretty limited experience with most Pokemon in this format, but I have absolutely zero for fighting against this one because if people wanted to use weather, they'd just use Sun. Pokemon like Landorus-T and Hippowdon are the main answers for this, and they do kind of halt it from making progress...but only if they're healthy. It may not even be a bad idea for the Excadrill user to make a trade between it and one of those three Pokemon, since those three are very important defensive parts of the meta. It needs to get them both to around half before it can click Swords Dance and break past those. On the fence, leaning towards broken but it could really go either way for me.


This meta has a serious lack of Ice resists, with the only prominent exceptions being Tapu Fini and the various Steels that can be supported by Florges. Florges also happens to beat this pretty nicely if it wasn't obvious from Kyurem-White. Freeze-Dry still breaks Fini, and you still have Earth Power for the Steels, which basically just leaves Florges unless you want to dig deep and run something gimmicky and bad like Frosmoth. This thing just looks way too similar to its other form in usage, probably a ban.


Honestly this Pokemon felt kinda stupid from when I was using it so far. I've been running Earth Power / Sludge Wave / Stealth Rock / U-Turn, but you could easily swap Stealth Rock for Psychic or like Knock Off or something idk. That set destroys or seriously dents most things that would otherwise beat it, with the one exception being opposing Landorus forms. U-Turn chipping and gaining momentum from Latias really can make it irrelevant as a full-on counter, although it does hold it off for some time, and you can run Psychic over Rocks if you really want to break opposing Landorus. Very stupid Pokemon, 100% needs the boot.


I said my thoughts on this before, I really just want to see how the meta changes before I make a conclusive statement. Zarude and Swellow seem great in my experience even without the three bans so that's cool, but those two shouldn't be required on all teams.


EDIT: Yeah I'll post my Ubers teams as well, good thinking
- Here's a sun team I never got to use.
- Here's a kind of standard balance.

 

[Gravity Monkey]

A cool core I've been thinking about


Paste

Lando-T is probably one of the best defensive options in the tier rn, compressing drill and lando-i check in a single slot. It has one glaring problem, though: its absence of longevity. Comes in Florges, who first of all helps to check mons that destroy lando like kyurem or latias. More importantly, it gets access to aromatherapy which enables lando's rest to be spammed. Couple this duo with any sort of spectrier check and you should have a pretty solid defensive core against everything bar like physical froslass or weird stuff like that.

Also bonus, here are some uber teams.

 

[Ema Skye]

Lando-I is oppressive as hell. EP / Sludge / Psychic / U-Turn has zero switchins with Lati and Lando-T accounted for through U-Turn and Psychic, respectively. I don't know why it's still here. I don't know why this thing is staying when even in Ubers it's known to have no counters outside of Steel/Flying mons, of which we have none.

I know Spectrier seems to have a few things working against it such as the Darks and Swellow, but Spectrier always has tools to beat its counters. SubDisable lures Dark moves and then leaves them without any option to break them. Substitute is honestly what breaks this mon imo because it reduces the checks to Swellow, Obstagoon and Snarl Umbreon. Ultimately I don't think it's healthy because you just lose if one of those is dead.

Drill is pretty dumb, but I would like to try and keep it because AV drill is like the only good Steel imo. I would much rather see a Sand Rush ban but I don't know how popular that would be given that Stoutland exists.

Kyurem is weakened by Florges being so amazing so I would probably put it as least oppressive right now.

 

[Hematemesis]

Bolivia here with thoughts !

Excadrill - Ban this puppy! There is a sore lack of physical defenders that can take this thing on. Even without Z moves, this thing is a complete threat under a swords dance boost in the sand or after a rapid spin (heck, a +2 rapid spin did 64% to a Lando-I). Excadrill is extraordinary as a physical set up sweeper, and it is absolutely the consummate pokemon in the role. I would deem this the most unhealthy pokemon in the meta currently. It is checked by Lando-T, but that is almost the only check it has. Being able to tailor make slots to dispose of Lando-T makes this thing a bit too ridiculous for the meta imo.

Kyurem - I reckon Kyurem is slightly less broken than Lando-T for a few reasons, but to be honest, I think that both are ban-worthy. Kyurem is nearly unwallable without one of two dedicated checks - Umbreon and Florges - and even then they can do little except for sitting back and wishtecting while Kyurem uses ice beams or gets wise and switches out. Kyurem is nearly impossible to get the jump on and destroys nearly everything that does not outspeed it or contains a high special defense stat and reliable recovery, of which there are very few things.

Landorus - This thing is probably bannable as well in my opinion. Lorb sheer force is incredibly threatening, and u-turn + sludge wave allows this thing to
expose the two things holding back Kyurem. Therefore, it is quite ridiculous in the meta. Lando-I also outspeeds Kyurem and blasts it with an earth power, which does not help the front for keeping it unbanned. I think it is quite ridiculous, although Latias is a moderately good check, as I said, pokemon with 1 check should not be allowed (Bulu gets tossed by a sludge wave, but perhaps scarf Bulu could be a mainstream innovation to check this if it stays).

Spectrier - I think the ghost horse is the most likely pokemon to remain in the "non-broken" category on the 4 on the watchlist at the moment. Ghost horse seems to have been dealt a worse hand with the prominence of Umbreon, which shuts it down completely, and Zarude/Swellow, both of which are great switchins that can retaliate against the opponent. Under the right set of circumstances, Spectrier shines as a crazy specially offensive threat that leaves the opponent with little to nothing to do besides cry. However, I interestingly think that the meta puts Spectrier in a spot where it is worse than its counterparts in OU and natdex (Z moves bust the hell out of this thing).

and

Umbreon and Vaporeon - these two are very interesting pokemon. At the moment, I think Umbreon has the clear edge due to freeze dry from Kyurem relegating Vaporeon to a backseat role, but these two are going to be the primary wish passers going forward, and I think they're quite unique. Vaporeon has access to heal bell and flip turn, allowing it to act as a cleric and slow pass wishes effectively. However, an innovation by Gravity Monkey in which he gave Umbreon snarl lets it completely stuff out special attackers (it can win a 1v1 against a Kyurem through a crit, as discovered in a fight I had with the aforementioned Gravity Monkey). While Florges is an interesting prospect for special defense due to defog access, I think these two will be the primary wish users as the meta develops away from the 4 pokemon on the watchlist.

I'm going to leave some pokemon below that I'm not going to analyze but I am going to keep an eye on for the future, as I think they can have a good spot in the meta once some of the clutter is out of the way:


^^ The 4 on the top are potentially hazardous to the meta, the others on the bottom are things I think could flourish here than may not be strong in other formats.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, enjoy!

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Hey you may have noticed this mod has been a bit... dead lately. Well it's time to revive it!

First of all, welcome Gravity Monkey and Hematemesis to the council! They've contributed a lot to the mod and will help me manage it moving forward.

Second of all, we're gonna be restarting the mod with a new dex. Starting off fresh should hopefully help make the mod feel new and more hype.

Lastly, we'll also be polling some new options for the meta. These are some changes that could help make the format more interesting and we want to gauge public opinion on them. Simple majority (50%+1 or the options with the most votes for #3) will be required for these changes to be applied. I will decide the result in case of a tie.

1- Rerolling any pokemon currently residing in SS or National Dex Uber. This will help skip the first few steps where we ban obviously broken pokemon so we can go straight to considering less obviously broken pokemon. Poll

2- Making the mod National Dex-based. This adds Mega evolutions, Z-Moves and moves such as Hidden Power and Pursuit. Pretty self-explanatory, brings some new stuff to the meta. Poll

3- Changing the number of fully-evolved pokemon in the dex. Currently, the format uses 80. However, a smaller number could make the cores and movesets in the format more creative due to less options being available. Poll

Polls will close in over 24 hours (When I have the time lol)

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Yo yo yo! Poll results are in!

1- Rerolling Ubers won 12 - 4 against not doing so! This means that the pool is not gonna include any National Dex Uber pokemon (spoiler but oh well).

2- National Dex won 9 - 7 against OU! This poll was closer, but the majority has spoken! Random Dex will now be National Dex-based!

3- The pool option that got the most votes was 60, with 42.86% approval. This means the new pokemon pool will consist of 60 fully-evolved pokemons and their split/pre-evolutions.

With that out of the way, we should be able to begin the roll soon! I highly suggest joining the discord server if you haven't already to not miss any information about it (the link is in the OP).

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

And here we go! The new Random Dex is here! It contains 72 fully-evolved pokemon (More than 60 because of split evolutions and different forms) as well as every form pre-evolution of these pokemon. Mega-Evolutions, Z-Crystals and dexited moves such as Hidden Power will also be allowed. Most form changes will be allowed except regional variants.

The Dex

Absol
Absol-Mega
Appletun
Articuno
Aurorus
Basculin
Beartic
Bisharp
Calyrex
Camerupt
Camerupt-Mega
Celesteela
Cloyster
Crawdaunt
Cursola
Dedenne
Delibird
Eelektross
Espeon
Flapple
Flareon
Flygon
Galvantula
Girafarig
Glaceon
Goodra
Gourgeist
Grimmsnarl
Guzzlord
Heliolisk
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Incineroar
Indeedee
Jolteon
Kangaskhan
Kangaskhan-Mega
Kartana
Kommo-o
Kyurem
Lanturn
Leafeon
Leavanny
Ludicolo
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Machamp
Mandibuzz
Medicham
Medicham-Mega
Nihilego
Palossand
Pidgeot
Pidgeot-Mega
Probopass
Pyroar
Sawk
Sceptile
Sceptile-Mega
Scolipede
Shiftry
Simisage
Slowbro
Slowbro-Mega
Slowking
Swoobat
Sylveon
Tapu Bulu
Tapu Fini
Tauros
Typhlosion
Umbreon
Ursaring
Vaporeon
Whiscash
Wishiwashi
Zebstrika

QUICKBAN
Kangaskhan-Mega is banned.​

Kangaskhan is legal in OU, but its mega forms is Uber. As such, it is banned by the "Uber reroll" rule.

And now begins the first discussion phase of our second Random Dex!

 

[Low-Key]

For your convenience, here are all of the not banned megas. I will probably touch upon more major discussion later, but for now, hopefully the mod can thrive unlike last time.

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Oh boy, we got a ton of repeats in this new roll! Here are some of the more notable ones:


Somehow we get two tapus again, and somehow its the two same. Oh well! I guess that just means bulu will still be able to pull of his reign of terror (although he has a bit more competition now in a certain grass/steel ultra beast). As for fini, it will probably see some use as it still checks a fair amount of the current metagame, although it might get overwhelmed by some of the new stronger physical mons.


Kyurem is here but its arch-nemesis Florges is gone. I doubt Sylveon and Umbreon will be enough for this mon to stay unbanned, though. Speaking of which...


Eeveelutions are back! – I mean, it wouldve been surprising considering rolling them is 8 times more likely than any single pokemon.


Sand castle is back, although this time with a way smaller competition: only two other ground types are around (camerupt and whiscash). I could see a world where this mon is viable.


is here

Lots of the smaller weirder cast is also repeat like there's dedenne, probopass, luvdisc, hitmons, girafarig and cursola which i think were all in the previous iteration as well. I guess that means there just ain't that many fully evolved pokemon hahah.

Now lets take a look at the new blood!



Wow this looks broken as hell! It's only checks are steela, kommo and like incineroar once every thursday. This mon will certainly centralize the short term discussion going forward.



Yes I've just talked about you guys why are you here agai– ohh right you've got offensive sets as well. Steela definitely looks more manageable than dumb Z-Kommo tho.



The megas. Ranked them in order of how good i think they are. If slowbro mega wasn't there i would be calling medicham extra-broken



Here are some other new mons that I think are kinda good and that I'm sure we'll see a lot of in the main metagame.

My brain is fried and that's about my limit of how in depth i can go right now. This looks fun tho! I'm looking forward to test this new metagame with all of you.

 

[NeonNitroGlycerin]

Flygon, Crawdaunt, and Galvantula? Sign me the FUCK up.

 

[Cratersmash]

Initial Thoughts:
:Great defensive pivot
:It's Bisharp,it's going to be good.Nice sweeper/breaker.
:Hear me out here:Clangorous Soul,and then Clangorous Soulblaze.And then sweep with +2 everything.
/:Practically the only thing keeping Mega Medi in check.Great tank/pivot.
More later

 

[Not_Shiva]

HO is one of my favorite playstyles, so I decided to go ahead and compile a list of HO mons. This is far from over, and I'll probably continue updating it for a bit.

Leads

: Scolipede is self-explanatory, being a strong Spikes setter that also packs a punch with STAB Megahorn. Speed Boost is a very useful ability, letting it outspeed and chunk something once it sets a layer of Spikes.
Scolipede @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Toxic Spikes / Spikes
- Endeavor
- Protect

: Galvantula is an amazing Pokemon, packing high speed and Compound Eyes Thunder. Its the only viable Sticky Web setter, so it'll have a very important niche on HO.
Galvantula @ Focus Sash
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sticky Web
- Thunder
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic

Grimmsnarl should need no introduction, being one of the best screen setters thanks to Prankster and its decent bulk.
Grimmsnarl @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Spirit Break

Breakers

: Mega Camerupt is a force to be reckoned with thanks to 145 SpA Sheer Force boosted attacks. It'll probably prefer Scolipede or Grimmsnarl as setters since Sticky Webs don't help it outspeed anything.
Camerupt @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Hidden Power Grass

: Mega Medicham needs no introduction, Pure Power is just an amazing ability. It particularly enjoys Sticky Web to outspeed some of its more major threats.
Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Punch

: Ursaring doesn't get noticed a lot in the competetive scene, but it hits surprisingly hard thanks to Guts boosted Facade along with decent coverage, albeit being a bit slow.
Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch

Sweepers

: Crawdaunt has a high Attack and Adaptability, allowing it to setup with Dragon Dance and sweep.
Crawdaunt @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Liquidation
- Knock Off
- Close Combat

: Bisharp has two roles on HO, not just as a set-up sweeper with Swords Dance and Adaptability, but with Defiant as a Defog deterrent.
Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head

: Kommo-o is an extremely dumb Pokemon, being able to get an omniboost through its Z-Move. Make sure to watch out for opposing Soundproof Kommo-o or Fairies before using it though.
Kommo-o @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Clanging Scales
- Drain Punch
- Flamethrower
- Taunt / Stealth Rock

Cleaners/Revenge Killers

: Typhlosion can spam powerful Eruptions, using Choice Scarf to patch up its speed.
Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Grass

: Jolteon has excellent speed, and can easily come in and KO thanks to the Choice Specs boost.
Jolteon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

: Indeedee has an amazing combo of Psychic Surge and STAB Expanding Force. It also has Trick if you ever need to cripple an opposing Pokemon.
Indeedee @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Expanding Force
- Hyper Voice
- Mystical Fire
- Trick

Kartana

: Kartana is one of the best Pokemon in the current iteration of Random Dex, and it can do a lot of things on HO. I didn't want to clog up the above list with Kartana sets, so I'll put them all here

Wallbreaker (Kartana) @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword

Sweeper (Kartana) @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off / Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword / Smart Strike

Cleaner/Revenge Killer (Kartana) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Sacred Sword

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

I have some thoughts too.


Enjoy these 4 while they're still here. We only have a few switch-ins to Mega-Medicham's stabs and, out of them, only Slowbro takes them well enough, though it's still 2hkoed by Thunder Punch I believe so yeah... Kartana is a bit easier to wall than Mega-Medicham due to the presence of Celesteela as well as other bulky grasses with Appletun standing out as the best physically defensive one of the bunch. Still, notice I said only a bit because Kart's Knock Off or Sacred Sword still chunks them significantly, especially with Band and it has higher speed and the ability to snowball. Kyurem is dumb especially with slowtwins, I think Spdef Sylveon is its only wall and that can probably just drop with Future Sight support. Maybe Umbreon can wall it too? Idk. As for Kommo-o, Clangorous Soulblaze in a meta with so few fairies sounds very difficult to handle. I think Sylveon and Dedenne are the only ones in fact, so yeah Kommo-o seems really difficult to deal with.

Consider these 4 on the initial watchlist.

 

[woo]

Some mons here that are already decent in normal metagames and will shine here:

This dude is ready to break past the metagame, Slowbro is this mon's check. It would be probably banned if slowbro, steela and fini weren't here lmao. This hits stuff rlly hard, it's by far the best mega to run, we'll see if Trick Room gets a try with camerupt-mega in the future!

.


Seriously though, this is the thing that i believe will be, by far, the most mentioned in bannable mon posts because of the huge attack. Though Celesteela slaps on this mon and Mandibuzz/Slowbro/Incineroar can switch in certain situations if it's choice-locked. I believe this will get some variety on sets because of Z-Moves being allowed, so i think it's worth it to have a mon like that at the start.

Great physical mon stopper, the metagame has a lot of physical threats so i wouldn't be surprised if this gets more usage. I can see stuff getting pretty infested with mons like this because of how the metagame is right now.

Good Sweeper, can set Spikes/Eat your whole team with a SD + Speed Boosts, can also use z-moves like aqua tail waterium z and other ones.

Awesome repeat we had here, something that is good in OU and specially offensive lol! This can trouble some mons like kartana with subroost because of the poor special defense. Specs can be good too but you can't take a sacred sword as well so :/. Also fsight support makes nuking more easier. Slowking can tank this mon's hits well, but it folds to a few freeze-drys. Something to prepare for.

Versatile. From Kommonium Z to ID Body Press, this mon can be a problem to you if you are not prepared. I think this one is one of the coolest Pokémon in the Pet Mod, glad the randomization got this for us.

man this thing here made kartana not that much of a problem. Steela tanks stuff a lot and can back off with one flamethrower on kartana's face and it's down!

I think Sylveon and Dedenne are the only ones in fact, so yeah Kommo-o seems really difficult to deal with.

Consider these 4 on the initial watchlist.

sorry but we have fini here.

Good repeat, tanks threats depending on what move they are choicelocked. Sits on Kommo's face easily lol.

and Both are very good on the format, tanking whatever you want them to tank and providing good support with Future Sights.

That's all for now, i kinda am busy right now so hmu on discord if i missed something lol. I know i have to talk about Galvantula (Prob one of the best webs setter / special mons on the tier) and Bisharp (good as in vanilla imo)

 

[DuoM2]

Day 0 Thoughts

| - Some definite defensive staples here, plus some that I think have some chance. Celesteela + Water is probably going to be a staple core, but some Electric will probably pop up to deal with that, and you'll likely use Bulu to handle whatever that may end up being. The rest are all likely going to depend on what ends up being good.

- Not really gonna comment much on any of these because other people have, they're all broken for reasons that have mostly been explained. Kartana gets Z-Sacred Sword to break past most of its prominent checks, and Kommo-o has to choose what it breaks through but it still can break through whatever it wants and teams can be built around that. All are probably broken.


Onto some more interesting stuff...

- This mon looks genuinely very good in this format. Even itemless Slowbro and Slowking hate switching in on this thing's Knock Off, Celesteela gets completely blocked out of recovery through Knock vs Leftovers and Magic Bounce vs Leech Seed, and Fini hates losing its only form of recovery. Only fully Sp. Def Tapu Bulu doesn't get 2HKOd by even an unboosted Fire Blast as well. Mandibuzz and Sylveon exist but it's worth noting that Mandibuzz hates Knock Off, which is by far this Pokemon's most spammable move. It's also pretty fragile.

- A meta where the best Steel doesn't resist Rock is a meta where Nihilego is happy. Grass Knot does great against Palossand too. Meteor Beam sets are going to be dangerous but I could easily see other things popping up, like offensive hazard setting or maybe even Scarf depending on whatever other offensive Pokemon are prominent.

- Not a world-ender by any means but Electric STAB is very good here and abusing the Scalds of many bulky Waters might prove very nice. You have a relatively spammable Volt Switch since Palossand doesn't like this thing's coverage, too.


Also unrelated note...

- The one thing I'm going to miss from the last meta was using Froslass. Both of its STABs had wonderful neutral coverage, but even with Choice Band it really wasn't that strong, so you had to soften things up for it, but there never really was a matchup where it was worthless. Its Speed tier was good and it always felt like there was a game where Poltergeist or Triple Axel was good even if neither ever won outright. I'm gonna miss using this thing there, was really fun and cool.

 

[G-Luke]

I have some thoughts too.


Enjoy these 4 while they're still here. We only have a few switch-ins to Mega-Medicham's stabs and, out of them, only Slowbro takes them well enough, though it's still 2hkoed by Thunder Punch I believe so yeah... Kartana is a bit easier to wall than Mega-Medicham due to the presence of Celesteela as well as other bulky grasses with Appletun standing out as the best physically defensive one of the bunch. Still, notice I said only a bit because Kart's Knock Off or Sacred Sword still chunks them significantly, especially with Band and it has higher speed and the ability to snowball. Kyurem is dumb especially with slowtwins, I think Spdef Sylveon is its only wall and that can probably just drop with Future Sight support. Maybe Umbreon can wall it too? Idk. As for Kommo-o, Clangorous Soulblaze in a meta with so few fairies sounds very difficult to handle. I think Sylveon and Dedenne are the only ones in fact, so yeah Kommo-o seems really difficult to deal with.

Consider these 4 on the initial watchlist.

wouldn't it be easier to ban Kommonium -A than ban Kommo, which otherwise offers A lot of utility and role compression in such a tight knit netagame?

 

[Hematemesis]

These puppies are going home! Kommo is walled by a few fairies, but the rest of these have very few if not outright no checks. As Mossy said, enjoy them before they're gone forever!

: No Eevee is viable in OU formats, but I think these 3 all have a case. Umbreon and Vaporeon in particular are going to be incredibly strong wish passers, and in this iteration of the dex, they do not have to fight against Florges for the wish pass slot. Which one you use will depend on team format. Aside from Fini, Sylveon is the premiere fairy, and is probably the best choice specs fairy. It has access to mystical fire as well, which is neat!

Premiere defogger? I'm honestly so glad this thing is in the format, as it prevents dangerous pokemon from wreaking havoc. Excellent glue pokemon with the ability to pivot as well! I see this thing being A- or B+ in viability but having insane usage!

Cringester. Shell smash with less defensive pokemon to lock it down or priority to outspeed it is going to be annoying. Slowbro does wall it, but king's rock sets can flinch down Slowbro, which is rather insane, and Slowbro does not do much in return anyway. Shell smash is never healthy, but Cloyster having the potential to be really good (primarily due to lack of steel types) might make this ban worthy out of health? Idk, I'd love to hear thoughts on this!

: It'll be interesting to see which of these 3 ends up being the premiere electric type. There are very few ground types to combat specs attackers, so I have a feeling at least one of these are going to be very prevalent. If I had to guess, Heliolisk has the best coverage, but Galvantula has the ability to run thunder due to compound eyes, and can also run webs (specs webs sets when). Jolteon may struggle. Side note, Dedenne's unique typing might give it a niche here as well? Idk?


: 3 insane terrain abusers with either unburden or simple, which is interesting. This will probably end up being similarly niche to Tapu Koko, but these unburden sweepers could be trouble.

: This thing is really strong, I think? No guard hurricanes and heat waves, and uturn as well? Mega Pidgeot seems like it will soar to new heights in random dex! I'm excited for it!

: There is a hail core present in the meta. Not sure how good it will be but it does exist, which I think is notable.

: Trick room also has a lot of tools, which could be cool. There seems to be no really strong "Cresselia-esque" pokemon to lunar dance for a setter, but I do think it can be a rather fun thing to experiment with!

: Just because it is not a fully evolved pokemon does not thing this is gone! I really like Gorsola and it could be an annoying defensive pokemon to help combat certain threats.

Those are my thoughts, sorry if they are rather scattered. I hope to be able to host some fun tournaments in a few weeks, as my workload will decline significantly in around two weeks, which is awesome! I hope you enjoy the meta until then!

 

[Yoshiblaze]

The new format is live now, have fun

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Medicham-Mega, Kyurem and Kartana are now banned.​

After a tournament held yesterday by Hematemesis, we've determined these 3 pokemon to be unhealthy part of the metagame.

Medicham-Mega was banned due to its insane wallbreaking capabilities in a rather slow metagame. The one pokemon that comes anywhere close to being a true wall is Slowbro and its Mega and even those get very badly chipped by Thunder Punch. Its speed tier of 100 isn't even bad by this meta's standard, only outdone by some scarfers as well as a few other viable pokemon. As such, we decided Mega-Medicham was too much for the metagame to handle.

Kyurem was banned for similar reasons to Mega-Medicham, as the only pokemon that can realistically wall it is Sylveon, and even that takes heavy damage from Ice Beam. It is also quite difficult to take down if using sets with Never-Melt Ice or Heavy-Duty Boots with Roost, meaning it cannot be reliably worn down throughout a game.

Kartana is also quite difficult to wall due to the format's limited Steel, Flying and Fire types. While there are a good amount of pokemon who can deal with a Choice Scarf set, notably Celesteela, Mandibuzz or Appletun, all of those have some abusable flaw that can be abused by Kartana, either being very weak to Knock Off and chip damage or losing to Swords Dance Kartana. Its speed tier is also amazing and the only common pokemon that can reliably outspeed and KO it are limited to Choice Specs Jolteon, Mega-Pidgeot and Mega-Sceptile.

​

In the previous tournament, we also noticed a lot of Hyper Offensive teams, often featuring these two pokemon. Kommo-o and Cloyster are the strongest setup sweepers and Hyper Offense enablers currently in the format, so the council will be taking a close look at these in the near future. This will be the next discussion phase's theme. What do you think of Kommo-o and Cloyster in the current meta? How about other Hyper-Offense enablers such as Galvantula, Bisharp Grimmsnarl and Scolipede? Keep in mind this is simply a suggested subject of conversation. If you want to talk about any other pokemon, feel free to!

 

[Tapler]

Offense is definitely dominant rn but that’s less because of enablers and more because we have exactly 1 defensive Steel, which lacks recovery.


Anyways here are some mons that nobody’s talking about:

- This thing’s damage output is unparalleled at its speed tier now that Kart’s gone, and with this format lacking in both Steels and fast mons, it’s super easy to pick off weakened mons or sweep through teams with its Sheer Force-boosted Body Slams and coverage. I genuinely think Tauros is high tier, don’t sleep on it.

- People always seem to dismiss this as a weak mega in vanilla but it’s not even bad, and considering the fact that it’s literally the fastest thing in the format, Mega Sceptile is stronger than ever. Its STABs don’t have many switchins without Steels around, and its damage output is better than people give it credit for. Probably the most powerful legal mega now that Medi’s gone.

- It sucks that Kommo-o is on every team, but once its checks have been chipped down enough Crawdaunt is super hard to deal with thanks to its sheer damage output. Definitely a strong breaker, especially now that it doesn’t have to compete with Medi or Kyurem. DD sets also seem pretty viable with how slow everything is, made better by the Kart ban.

- It’s definitely a niche mon, but with its great coverage, pivoting, and ability to trap and eliminate opposing Celesteela and (non-Low Kick) Bisharp, Specs Probopass is actually a pretty decent pick for offensive builds. In addition to sniping on one of the best defensive threats in the format, it’s also the second-fattest Steel we have, so it functions well as a bulky attacker.

- I haven’t tested it yet, but with Medi and Kyurem gone this actually seems like a really funny anti-meta pick. Beam Polish go brrr.

 

[DuoM2]

New upload! Just going over this mod today, not really much else to it than that. Thank you to Gravity Monkey and Moretto for games, and Mossy Sandwich for both that and hosting this mod!

Also I'm still sorry Hematemesis

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Hey everyone! Now that the mod has gotten Leader's Choice and is picking up some steam, we have some more information about the metagame. Notably, we've seen Kommo-o and Cloyster as strong sweepers once again, but have also witnessed Nihilego, Celesteela, Tapu Bulu and Bisharp as strong wallbreakers or sweepers that may prove problematic. It also seems Hyper Offense and Bulky Offense thrive in this metagame while bulkier playstyles seem to be difficult to make use of. The metagame is obviously flawed and, while we could go ahead and start banning things left and right, the council has decided to try something different to balance the format: We're going to add new evolution lines to the metagame!

These evolution lines will be added in slates with 1 or 2 lines in each. In these slates, each user will be able to submit a few evolution lines that try to fill a given niche. Keep in mind the pokemon you submit will be unchanged from its National Dex form and that pokemon will come with their mega, pre-evolutions and split evolutions (For example subbing Slowbro would also allow for Mega-Slowbro, Slowking and Slowpoke to be used.) The submission process will be pretty similar to other mods, User Submissions --> Council Vetoes --> Voting --> Winners. However, if that option is not popular, we could also generate more pokemon to add to the meta. Anyway, the concept is not finalized and the council would like to see what the players want in these slates so we've made a poll to gather opinions. The results will be out in 3 days. Discussion phase is also still going by the way, so you can leave you thoughts about the meta in the thread.