SM OU Quick Claw Machamp Trick Room

[Bold School]

So as most of my team ideas start out, I wanted to do something different. I've been wanting to try Trick Room teams for awhile, but I've never been able to come up with a good, unique Trick Room team concept I was interested in before. My breakthrough came when I realize my biggest problem with relating to Trick Room teams was the unreliability of Trick Room. Shocking, I know. So I thought, "What if you could have a Trick Room team that also sort of works outside Trick Room?"

And by that, I don't mean any of this passive aggressive semi-Trick Room nonsense. I mean a full Trick Room team that isn't automatically screwed when you can't get the Trick Room off at various points in the game. By sheer coincidence, I realized some of the sets I have been playing around with for other team concepts actually worked pretty well for this. Full disclosure, I am still a bit of a noob when it comes to the Trick Room part of these teams. So there is every chance this can be further optimized. Having said that, I'm pretty happy with my actual attackers so far. So it's really the Trick Room side that I think could maybe use adjustments.

The Team:

Machamp @ Quick Claw
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab

I know what you are thinking. Quick Claw isn't a viable item, right? Except that it actually works on Machamp. It's a somewhat similar concept to why paralyses/flinch works on Togekiss, except it's confusion/priority instead. The Quick Claw hax combines with the confusion hax of a Dynamic Punch that always hits. So if you hit a Dynamic Punch on the switch you forced, there are now 2 different hax mechanisms working where you can go before your opponent. And since Machamp is bulky enough to generally live at least one non super effective hit, this can result in you taking some opposing pokemon out even on regular teams. That is an important sticking point. I have tested Quick Claw Machamp in RU, UU, and OU and it can work even without assisting speed control beyond Quick Claw.

Proof of Concept:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-958585113

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-960496064

Yes, those are extreme examples. I wanted to put them to show what can happen. What normally happens is the Quick Claw allows you to hedge your bets a bit more than you otherwise would and punish switches. In most of my games on regular-ish (at least for me) teams, similar Machamp sets consistently wound up taking 1-3 opposing pokemon out. Yes, it's very niche. But the fact it has some viability outside of Trick Room means it should theoretically thrive inside it. The complete mind games you can play with a slow but not too slow pokemon with Quick Claw and Trick Room is rather incredible actually.

For the set, Quick Claw allows for some threat of functionality outside of Trick Room and to ensure that slower pokemon don't always get the drop on you under it. The EVs are mostly Health and Attack in order to maximize natural damage and bulk. Dynamic Punch is the main STAB and source of confusion status. Stone Edge is an amazing coverage move that hits flying types hard and never misses with No Guard. The next two moves are somewhat optional. I find that I like Earthquake to hit poison and electric types that aren't part flying (who in turn get hit by Stone Edge) and any rock/steel types that partly resist fighting. I carry Poison Jab for fairy and grass types, particularly Tapu Bulu. I find that coverage works best with this particular team.

Other Move Options

Other options include Knock Off, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Fire Punch, and Throat Chop. Of these, Knock Off and Ice Punch are the best. Knock off can be run to hit psychic and ghost types and target items. A Knock off/Earthquake combination is also best for dealing with Toxapex, although generally you should have other teammates for that. Ice Punch hits ground types like Landorus-Therian and Garchomp as well as still hitting most flying and grass types. Thunder Punch can be used to hit flying and water types, but it's generally not as good coverage as Ice Punch. Fire Punch can hit Ferrorthorn and Mega Scizor for 4X damage, except Dynamic Punch STAB generally hits them and other steel types hard enough. Throat Chop can be used over Knock Off to ensure more consistent damage on psychic or ghost types. But it's generally not as good as Knock Off because most psychic types don't live Knock Off anyway and most ghost types that do live it try to burn you.

Golisopod @ Choice Band
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Aqua Jet

I know, I know. I have now posted this set in like the last 3 RMTs I have done. Is it getting old? Maybe. I swear I'm not doing this on purpose. And I'm sure most people who give me advice on changes still hate it and hate my Choice Band set even more so, despite the fact that it does actually work in OU. (And RU, UU, Monotype, etc.) Golisopod has been on many of my recent test concepts for various reasons, and I realized that it also just happened to fit the concept of a Trick Room team that works outside of Trick Room extremely well. So sorry not sorry, I'm putting here because it works outside of Trick Room despite being a slow pokemon. How? Priority. Choice Band Golisopod hits like a truck with priority. I'm not going to get too much into it since I have talked about it enough in past RMTs. I'll just requote myself on some relevant OU tier 1HKOs:

Things Golisopod 1HKOs with Priority:

1. Ash-Greninja -

Things Golisopod 1HKOs with Priority:

First Impression does 227.3 - 268% and outspeeds priority Water Shuriken. And you know that if it one shots Ash-Greninja by that much, the normal one gets OHKO'd as well.

2. Mega-Alakazam - First Impression does 263.7 - 311.5% of its health. Alternatively, Aqua Jet is an amusing 2HKO at 58.9 - 69.7% where Alakazam can Trace Emergency Exit and not be able to fight back after the first hit due to being forced out. From there, it's in range of the second Aqua Jet. This one is niche, but worth remembering if you want to use Aqua Jet to threaten the opposing team instead of a one and done attack.

3. Mega-Latias - First Impression does 110.4 - 130.2% even with max HP investment.

4. Mega-Latios - First Impression does 156.1 - 184% of it's health and there's nothing it can do about it.

5. Mega-Medicham - First Impression does 102.6 - 121%. Another guaranteed unassisted 1HKO.

6. Volcorona - Aqua Jet does 96.4 - 113.8% on the offensive Quiver Dance set. 75% chance to OHKO becomes 100% after one pivot move, even U-Turn from Tornadus. The Bulky Quiver Dance set has a bit more survivability. Aqua Jet only does 68 - 80.9% to the bulky set. But even that is a guaranteed KO after either Volt Switch.

7. Excadrill - The Sand Rush set is dealt 87.8 - 103.3% by Aqua Jet. You need a bit of chip to ensure a KO and/or counter the focus sash build. But you do still have the chsnce to OHKO it.

8. Reinculous - First Impression does 96.2 - 113.2% to the bulky defensive Calm Mind set. That's a 75% chance to 1HKO the set that has maxed defensive EV investment on a defensive wall. Even then, any chip damage makes that 100%. Less defensively invested sets are all guaranteed OHKOs.

9. Tangrowth - First Impression does 95.7 - 113.1% on the Assault Vest set. 75% chance to 1 shot it and obviously any chip should seal the deal every time. Even against Physically Defensive Tangrowth, First Impression still does 74.4 - 87.8%.. This can be very useful for finishing it off.

10. Tyranitar - First Impression does 113.3 - 133.6% against the OU Stealth Rock set with 136 EVS in HP. Against OU Assault Vest, it does 109.3 - 128.9%. That set has 224 HP EVs. But neither have defensive EVs. Even a Max physically defensive Tyranitar with 252 EVs in both HP and Defense and an Impish Nature will still get smacked for 78.7 - 92.5%. Even against the Mega, the OU Stealth Rock set still takes 86.6 - 102.3% from First Impression. I'm not going to go through every set and scenario. But many of them undeniably lead to OHKO opportunities.

11. Serperior - First Impression does 169 - 200% to the Choice Scarf set.

12. Weavile - First Impression does 235.5 - 278.2% to the Choice Band set.

13. Hoopa-Unbound - First Impression does a hilarious 462.1 - 543.6% to the Choice Band set.

14. Hydreigon - First Impression does 157.5 - 186.4% to the OU Darknium Z set. I'm pretty sure no set would live it, though.

15. Mew - First Impression does 111.2 - 131.6% to the OU Defensive set.

16. Venusaur - First Impression does 90.6 - 106.9% to the sun sweeper set I see run occasionally in OU.

17. Bisharp - First Impression does 86.7 - 102.2%, which is only about an 18.8% chance to OHKO. However, it becomes 100% after any chip from pivot users.

So to summarize, this thing is secret OU counter meta with just its priority moves. With a Trick Room team, you can use punishing slower STAB moves like Liquidate and Leech Life on more than just predicted switches. This makes this pokemon even more threatening. And when Trick Room ends and you can't get it up, Golisopod is still threatening because its priority has to be taken seriously.

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

With two main physical attackers, I needed a special attacker that could take advantage of Trick Room. I then remembered a Trick Room team concept by 737373elj based around the use of Mega Ampharos. It works pretty well for this team. The electric STAB hits flying and water types that may give my other main attackers some trouble. I think my favorite thing about it is that Volt Switch lets it both attack and swap out on the last turn of Trick Room so that you can set up again without losing momentum. For EVs, I just went the typical power and natural bulk route with HP and special attack. Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are the powerful and utility STAB moves respectively, Dragon Pulse is different STAB, and HP Ice one shots cheeky Landorus, Gliscor, and Garchomp that think they can switch into this under Trick Room. Static is used before Mega evolving to sometimes inflict paralyses.

Magearna @ Normalium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Heal Bell
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

With my main attackers out of the way, I needed to work on my Trick Room setters. My priority here was to have a pivot with utility. While Magearna is often used as an offensive Trick Room setter, it actually has a lot of tools to be a good support pokemon. Volt Switch allows it to switch to an attacker after setting up Trick Room without sacrificing itself. Heal Bell is great for getting rid of pesky Status like Burn or Toxic that would otherwise cripple my main attackers, and Z Heal Bell is a full heal that keeps Magearna able to do it's job longer. Ice Beam is to hit ground types like Landorus-Therian, which is a bane to much of my team.

This is hands down the best Trick Room setter I have. The only thing I'm not 100% sure on with this set is if I want to keep the max special attack investment. It works well enough as is. However, it's not exactly meant to be an attacker. In theory, it might be worthwhile to invest more in my defense or special defense at least a bit instead of special attack. So far, I have't had enough trouble with it to be bothered to try and optimize it better. I'm sure it can be, though.

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance

This set provide 4 crucial things for my team: A Trick Room setter, a ground immunity, a fighting resist, and a momentum sacrifice heal. It mostly fits my team very well. There are times where I feel it can be better optimized, though. I went with mostly a defensive spread because I needed something that could take some abuse from physical attackers with Earthquake or fighting STAB. Ice Beam is to counterattack ground types (again) and Psychic is to counter attack fighting and poison types. Lunar Dance is an amazing Healing Wish like move that gains momentum and also cures status. Mental Herb was added for Taunt users to ensure I got the Trick Room off. However, I'm increasingly finding that some sort of heal is more needed on it in most games. So I may replace that with Leftover or a recovery berry.

Stakataka @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Atk / 248 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

This is the one I'm least sure about. I added it primarily because I needed a Stealth Rocker and it was a decent attacker for a setter. There are two main issues. First, it gets wrecked by two different 4X weaknesses way too often. My team doesn't exactly appreciate ground and fighting vulnerability on a team where Magearna is the main pivot. Second, it has no hazard removal. There aren't many viable Trick Room setters with both hazard removal and hazards. So I just picked one that I thought I needed more and it mostly works ok enough. However, it's also far from what I would consider optimal.

The EVs were made to optimize the natural bulk of Stakataka's base 211 defense by investing in HP and special defense. A bit of attack investment is used to put Stakataka's attack EVs at just over 300. Gyro Ball is great STAB that hits most fairies and fast mons that don't resist it hard. Earthquake is coverage against opposing steel and electric types that may resist Gyro Ball.

Some Early Replays:

- First 3 games I played with this team:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-978836221

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-978914084

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-978918084

- Some others.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-979859652

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-979866277

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-979996179

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980552635

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980561343

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-980566218


I mostly tried to show the games that I thought were good or displayed the team's capabilities better. It should be noted that a few of these games, particularly the first three, I won in spite of some obvious mistakes. This shows both that the team is somewhat forgiving and has a ton of annoying hax potential. You may notice the ratings in the replays stayed fairly low. The team is by no means a juggernaut and I am still learning it and trying to refine it. I don't play Trick Room often tbh and I've had some pretty preventable ugly losses. That said, I'm pretty sure the team as is could do better than I've done with it so far. I'm sort of rushing my teams out now before Sword & Shield come out.

Please keep in mind the purpose of this team when making suggestions.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Quick Claw isn't a viable item, right?

It's not.

Except that it actually works on Machamp.

It doesn't.

It's a somewhat similar concept to why paralyses/flinch works on Togekiss, except it's confusion/priority instead.

You're comparing a fresh apple with a rotten orange. Flinches and paralysis work in tandem. Both prevent the opponent from moving, and the speed drop from paralysis is handy for making more things able to be flinched. Paraflinch Togekiss and Jirachi give the opponent a 30% chance of acting each turn (a little less for Kiss because of Air Slash's imperfect accuracy). Also, even when luck isn't the Serene Gracer's side, the opponent still has permanently lowered speed. Meanwhile, pseudo-priority and confusion have little to no synergy. Confusion is also temporary and provides no additional benefit when it doesn't activate, and the pseudo-priority has an 80% chance to be fucking useless each turn.

If you want a Fighting type that can wreck house in Trick Room without being overly reliant on it, Conkeldurr is a better bet than Machamp.

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Facade
- Knock Off

Despite Drain Punch's lower base power, Conkeldurr is still stronger than Machamp.

252+ Atk Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 278-330 (78.9 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 332-392 (94.3 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

It also has Mach Punch, which doesn't rely on a 20% proc chance to work. And who needs coverage like Earthquake and Poison Jab when you can just 2HKO those targets with Facade?

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 184-217 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

I have tested Quick Claw Machamp in RU, UU, and OU and it can work even without assisting speed control beyond Quick Claw.

And I'm sure most people who give me advice on changes still hate it and hate my Choice Band set even more so, despite the fact that it does actually work in OU.

Maybe it works in the 1300s, but that doesn't mean it works in OU. Maybe if you'd actually listen to the people telling you that your sets are bad, you'd be higher on the ladder.

I may not be the best at team building (mainly because my extent with Showdown is mostly just occasional rounds of Hackmons Cup), but I know enough about this game to recognize sets and strategies that are deeply and fundamentally flawed. I know I'm coming across as harsh, and I really don't care. I can't in good faith sugar coat how I feel about this team.

 

[Bold School]

To be blunt, this is the sort of feedback I don't find helpful. Not because I can't ever be wrong. I can accept the fact that I will make mistakes. What bothers me is you misrepresent what I said and dismissed it without seemingly even considering if some of my points might actually have validity. You also seem to completely ignore what I stated I was actually looking for in this RMT. I'm all for feedback and people suggesting ways to improve. It does bother me when the feedback essentially amounts to ignoring what I said and saying what I'm doing is wrong just because.

Meanwhile, pseudo-priority and confusion have little to no synergy. Confusion is also temporary and provides no additional benefit when it doesn't activate, and the pseudo-priority has an 80% chance to be fucking useless each turn.

Except that's not entirely true. Machamp forces a lot of switches and you can hit Dynamic Punch on them fairly often. Once you have the confusion status up, you have two ways where you can go before the opponent can get an attack in. That's synergy. No, the odds aren't as good as serene grace parahax and confusion isn't as inherently good as paralyses. But you don't exactly want to slow down the opponent with paralyses too much on Trick Room for obvious reasons.

I have tested this set on multiple teams in multiple tiers. For Pete's sake, I even included replays showing it working and how. As I said before, it would take out 1-3 opposing pokemon in most games I played with it. Although, the timing with it is pretty crucial. In most cases, I would not recommend using it in OU just because other fighting types are significantly better on most teams. The reason why I am suggested its use here is because I discovered that it works really well in a Trick Room team.

If you want a Fighting type that can wreck house in Trick Room without being overly reliant on it, Conkeldurr is a better bet than Machamp.

If you had paid attention to my RMT, you might notice that I stated multiple times that I was having the most trouble with Trick Room setters. I did not say anything about wanting a Fighting type that can wreck the most under Trick Room. I said I was happy with my Machamp set. So when giving advice, the only real suggestion for improvement you give me is to replace the one set I made the theme of my Trick Room team for? This is why I'm telling you that you're not being helpful. You're not listening to me. You are just arbitrarily dismissing my claims without even as strong a case against them as I'm making for them.

Furthermore, I really feel as if you aren't giving me anywhere near enough credit as a player. I'm well aware that Conkeldurr is among the more standard Trick Room abusers. That's not what I wanted. I could also get more power out of Machamp by adding Guts to it, too. Again, that isn't what I wanted and it doesn't fit with my team as well. I wanted Dynamic Punch because it's a pain in the rear for opposing teams to deal with. No Guard also works far better with Stone Edge, which is normally more along the lines of Stone Miss when it comes to most sets.

Maybe it works in the 1300s, but that doesn't mean it works in OU. Maybe if you'd actually listen to the people telling you that your sets are bad, you'd be higher on the ladder.

This is an incredibly unfair statement. First of all, I'm not by any means stuck at 1300 on the ladder with every team I play or even most of them. I have stated that I have tested these sets across multiple teams in multiple tiers. Some of those teams are just experimental trash that are primarily for testing a bunch of concepts. Some of them are actually meant to be good, though. Many times I intentionally lower my rank due to testing these concept teams and in preparation for making a fairer analyses of them. The fact that the replays I provided happen to be 1300s is not indicative of my overall ability with these sets in every team. That's a very disingenuous premise you have.

Second, I do not normally play Trick Room teams. I am admittedly still getting used to the concept. You may notice that many of those replays have egregious mistakes in them. I'm still learning the team and playstyle. This team's ceiling is not stuck at the 1300s just because I happened to be there when I posted this. Normally, I would spend more time learning, tweaking, and testing before posting. But I'm trying to rush out team concepts before the next Gen completely changes the Meta. So sorry if it's a bit rough around the edges right now. I was hoping the right advice would help round out the edges.

Third, it's not as if I don't take any criticism. However, you should understand that I do test my concepts before posting them. I wouldn't tell you something inherently works if I didn't test it first and got results that actually worked! So it's a bit aggravating when someone comes on here and tells me something along the line of, "No, the thing you tested for weeks or months couldn't possibly work. Your sets are all trash and you should listen to people." It's not as if I don't listen. But I really wish people like you would actually listen to me when I tell you what works and what doesn't in my actual experience and, more importantly, why.

Fourth, I'll say it when something definitively doesn't work for me. I don't mind. In just this post I talked about not being completely happy with Stakataka. If it doesn't work then I'll gladly say it doesn't work. But it has to actually be TRUE that it doesn't work or I'm not going going to say it doesn't.

I may not be the best at team building (mainly because my extent with Showdown is mostly just occasional rounds of Hackmons Cup), but I know enough about this game to recognize sets and strategies that are deeply and fundamentally flawed. I know I'm coming across as harsh, and I really don't care. I can't in good faith sugar coat how I feel about this team.

I mean, you basically came on here and told me my sets are trash in spite of my testing and explanations. Now you're telling me you aren't really even an experienced builder but you just know enough somehow? What? If you're not even as experienced as me in team building then why are you reprimanding me like you are? It just comes across as hypocritical.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for feedback. I'm all for being honest. I'll gladly take feedback from less experienced people because, hey, maybe it could be helpful. I'm all for that. But you don't seem to actually be listening to what I'm saying in this RMT. You are just overly dismissive.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Oh boy.

What bothers me is you misrepresent what I said and dismissed it without seemingly even considering if some of my points might actually have validity.

You're unironically using a Quick Claw and claiming it some hot new tech. You're damn right I'm going to be dismissive.

I have tested this set on multiple teams in multiple tiers.

You tested it in three, at least under the "Bold School" username.

I don't see RU anywhere here, by the way, which makes me dubious of your original claim that

I have tested Quick Claw Machamp in RU, UU, and OU

This is also where I got your rank from, not your replays.

Also, to think that just because a set works in one tier means it works in another tier is just flat-out wrong. For example, Aerial Ace Flygon is viable enough to be recommended in the strategy dex, but that's only because Virizion is such a menace in the RU tier. If you take an Aerial Ace Flygon into OU, you'd be a laughing stock.

If you had paid attention to my RMT, you might notice that I stated multiple times that I was having the most trouble with Trick Room setters. I did not say anything about wanting a Fighting type that can wreck the most under Trick Room. I said I was happy with my Machamp set. So when giving advice, the only real suggestion for improvement you give me is to replace the one set I made the theme of my Trick Room team for?

Whether or not you're happy with your Machamp is of little consequence. I saw an obvious way to improve your team, and I pointed it out. It being the core of your team is all the more reason to change it, because if the crux of your strategy is just "be lucky with Quick Claw and confusion", then your strategy is fundamentally shit and in dire need of repair.

Furthermore, I really feel as if you aren't giving me anywhere near enough credit as a player. I'm well aware that Conkeldurr is among the more standard Trick Room abusers. That's not what I wanted. I could also get more power out of Machamp by adding Guts to it, too. Again, that isn't what I wanted and it doesn't fit with my team as well. I wanted Dynamic Punch because it's a pain in the rear for opposing teams to deal with.

The only replays you've posted are from low ladder, so you haven't given me much reason to respect you as a player. You're also passing up superior options for cheesy hax, which gives me even less reason to respect you as a player. Come back with some high-ish ladder replays, and maybe I'll change my mind. But for now, you haven't earned the credit you think you're miraculously entitled to.

This is an incredibly unfair statement. First of all, I'm not by any means stuck at 1300 on the ladder with every team I play or even most of them. I have stated that I have tested these sets across multiple teams in multiple tiers. Some of those teams are just experimental trash that are primarily for testing a bunch of concepts. Some of them are actually meant to be good, though. Many times I intentionally lower my rank due to testing these concept teams and in preparation for making a fairer analyses of them. The fact that the replays I provided happen to be 1300s is not indicative of my overall ability with these sets in every team. That's a very disingenuous premise you have.

Like I said, you're going to have to prove your worth first. You can't come in talking a big game about how you've discovered some hot new tech, and then have nothing but low ladder replays to back it up.

Second, I do not normally play Trick Room teams. I am admittedly still getting used to the concept. You may notice that many of those replays have egregious mistakes in them. I'm still learning the team and playstyle. This team's ceiling is not stuck at the 1300s just because I happened to be there when I posted this. Normally, I would spend more time learning, tweaking, and testing before posting. But I'm trying to rush out team concepts before the next Gen completely changes the Meta. So sorry if it's a bit rough around the edges right now. I was hoping the right advice would help round out the edges.

Your team isn't just rough around the edges. It's rough all the way to the core. Seriously, ditch the damn Machamp.

I mean, you basically came on here and told me my sets are trash in spite of my testing and explanations. Now you're telling me you aren't really even an experienced builder but you just know enough somehow? What? If you're not even as experienced as me in team building then why are you reprimanding me like you are? It just comes across as hypocritical.

I've been here for five years, and have been keeping up to date on the meta through the various threads in the OU subforum for about three. You've been here less than two months, and frequently either give bad advice (Brine Tapu Fini) or display a lack of understanding for why certain things are used (thinking an Alolan Ninetales, a Rain Dance Manaphy, and a Mega Tyranitar are "3 different incomplete weather team concepts combined", though the Dragon Dance on T-tar was actually a good idea).

I'm not good at team building because I overuse lures and unconventional sets, which while fun, aren't usually very consistent in the long run. I'm a bit similar to you in that way, but with the difference being that I've had time to realize that being heat doesn't automatically make you good, and that it's usually best to stick to the tried and true before tweaking them to add some spice. There's a common saying in art that it's important to learn the rules so that you know how to break them. This applies to Pokemon as well.

 

[Bold School]

This is starting to appear to be about more than just this RMT for you. If you have a beef with me in particular and how I do things instead of just the RMT, let's hash it out in private. I don't want to derail my post over a personal spat. Other than that, I'm going to address your points because you are still being a bit misrepresentative. Perhaps it's simply a misunderstanding? We'll see after this.

I don't see RU anywhere here, by the way, which makes me dubious of your original claim that

For the record, I have been on Pokemon Showdown on and off for years under various accounts. This account is fairly new and I have not been on the Smogon Forums as an actual poster before this account. I made the account specifically to be a poster. You aren't going to get all the data I have ever gotten from just looking me up on this one account. In hindsight, I suppose I can understand how I might appear to you as just some arrogant novice. But that's not really true.

This is also where I got your rank from, not your replays.

Ok. So you got a different source for your quip. Either way, you are still completely ignoring the context of what I said. I specifically stated the following: "Many times I intentionally lower my rank due to testing these concept teams and in preparation for making a fairer analyses of them. The fact that the replays I provided happen to be 1300s is not indicative of my overall ability with these sets in every team. That's a very disingenuous premise you have." I'm not trying to inherently keep my rating high on this account right now. So you can judge me on that if you like, but it won't be representative of anything right now.

Also, to think that just because a set works in one tier means it works in another tier is just flat-out wrong.

Except that's not what I said. I said I tested it in multiple tiers including OU. I did NOT say that automatically means it works in OU just because it works in lower tiers. That is a straw man. I said I tested it in OU and it worked in OU. I also said I wouldn't recommend it in most OU teams because there are better options for fighting types. Obviously, it's a different situation with Trick Room.

I saw an obvious way to improve your team, and I pointed it out.

Well, it's obviously not what I wanted. I don't think I would have taken it poorly if it wasn't accompanied by some of your other stuff. I likely would have thanked you for trying to be helpful anyways. However, I don't feel like you really are trying to be helpful for reasons I already stated.

You should know that I thought this through. Not when you suggested it. Long before that. I thought it through because standard Trick Room physical attackers like Alolan Marowak and Conkeldurr are some of the first things you should consider and I did a bunch of research into it. I went in different directions for my own reasons. I wanted utility over just raw damage.

The various Guts sets do a lot of damage and are standard Trick Room fair. But they have several flaws that don't mesh with what I want with the team, including not being able to use Dynamic Punch effectively. Heal Bell and Guts doesn't mesh properly. Lunar Dance will heal status, which is also counterproductive. So then at minimum, you have to wait another turn before it is effective again. Fighting types are usually good to take Knock Off. But if you lose Flame Orb as this happens, you can't regain that as easily. So it's a horrible Lunar Dance candidate. Drain Punch can work for recovery. However, this makes you solely reliant on what you are facing.

I didn't think I would have to justify this to people.

because if the crux of your strategy is just "be lucky with Quick Claw and confusion", then your strategy is fundamentally shit and in dire need of repair.

Except that's not the entire strategy. I specifically said this allows you to hedge your bets. As I have said, Machamp can force a lot of switches. Machamp can also usually live an attack and strike back. The combination of those things is what gives it effectiveness. You switch it in on the right thing and/or with momentum and then you punch holes in the opposing team. You can then gamble whether to switch or further test your luck. In many cases, you can get more than you deserve due to the hax. And when you don't, you can generally take out one pokemon anyway. In Trick Room, the effectiveness is increased because of the extra speed control.

Perhaps I did a poor job at explaining this overall. (Although, you don't exactly appear to have the best reading comprehension right now.) I didn't elaborate more because I figured the replays showed enough for the sake of understand the playstyle on this team. I mean, just watch the replays and you can see how it's used.

The only replays you've posted are from low ladder, so you haven't given me much reason to respect you as a player. You're also passing up superior options for cheesy hax, which gives me even less reason to respect you as a player. Come back with some high-ish ladder replays, and maybe I'll change my mind. But for now, you haven't earned the credit you think you're miraculously entitled to.

Another misrepresentation. I don't think I'm inherently entitled to respect. You are treating me like I never played pokemon before in my life, which is the other extreme. You act like I don't think anything through, which what what I meant by not giving me enough credit. Like I thought about things like Conkeldurr long before you ever suggested it or I even posted this RMT. It didn't occur to you that I might have reasoning why I'm not using it. You treat me like an idiot while simultaneously closing off your brain.

As I said before, I rushed this team concept out. I didn't even finish trying to ladder with it. If that's going to cause people like you to disrespect me then I guess so be it. I would still rather get the concept out there and on the record for future reference.

Will I be trying to high ladder just to prove you wrong? Probably not. You aren't that important. Maybe sometime after Sword and Shield is out I'll revisit the concept.

Your team isn't just rough around the edges. It's rough all the way to the core. Seriously, ditch the damn Machamp.

This is just getting silly. Clearly, you are too close minded to accept that there could possibly be any validity to this concept despite what I've provided and I'm getting tired of arguing with you about it. I can see us going nowhere with this anytime soon.

If you want to be helpful, talk about my whole team. Don't just hammer the one thing that bothers you most. I get it. You don't like the set. Fine. We'll agree to disagree for now. What about the rest of the team? Do you have anything actually helpful to say or are you just here to bash me because you disagree? Do you even play Trick Room? I am inexperienced at Trick Room. I could use the perspective of an experience Trick Room player. Are you that?

I've been here for five years, and have been keeping up to date on the meta through the various threads in the OU subforum for about three. You've been here less than two months, and frequently either give bad advice (Brine Tapu Fini) or display a lack of understanding for why certain things are used (thinking an Alolan Ninetales, a Rain Dance Manaphy, and a Mega Tyranitar are "3 different incomplete weather team concepts combined", though the Dragon Dance on T-tar was actually a good idea).

I've been playing longer than 5 years, kid. I first played pokemon when the original gen 1 games came out. I have been on Showdown off and on under various accounts for longer than you joined. I don't play tournaments or post. I have frequently played ladder. This account is new. No, I'm not claiming to be some forgotten OG elite player. But I am quite experienced.

Your examples of what you perceive as bad advice makes me think that this has been building within you for awhile and now it's all blowing up at once. Quite frankly, you don't seem to understand where I was actually coming from on any of those examples. I'm not going to explain myself here because I don't feel it's relevant. If you want to talk about that, PM me.

 

[737373elj]

Now, your team looks ok (despite its many flaws that DrPumpkinz pointed out) but I want to call you attention to the portion right below:

a Trick Room team concept by 737373elj based around the use of Mega Ampharos.

Now, I appreciate that you found my team useful, but there is a small problem with this statement.
My team wasn’t Trick Room.
It was a Thunder Wave + Tailwind team, and the reason I didn’t use Trick Room was because Prisoner952 said that Vikavolt was better at abusing Trick Room. Now I haven’t used that before, but I trust his/her judgement and experience and I strongly recommend you try that out.

 

[MrHands]

This thread is great. I remember when I was new in 4th gen I got all hard over shuca berry Mawile. "It counters Gyarados!" I would say to anyone who thought it was bad. Oh it lures in Flygon and Garchomp!

But the reality is I was bad and because I wouldn't accept it I stayed stuck in the low ladder where garbage like Shuca berry Mawile could actually work. You know, against people who don't know how the type chart works. I was up my own ass with how good I was so I never improved. The first step to getting good at something is to admit you're not very good in the first place.

Anyhow Quick Claw sucks because even the rare times it works you're still using an unboosted Machamp. Fighting type sucks in OU. So much fairy / flying / psychic spam. Literally 50% of OU resists fighting and a huge portion of the tier OHKOs you. Even if you get the Dynamic punch confuse who cares? Confusion was nerfed to 30%, it won't even do much unless you hax.

Conkledurr isn't great either but at least he has pseudo normal STAB, recovery, and priority.

Edit: I didn't actually look at the team lol. You're running Quick Claw AND First Impression Gosilopod on TRICK ROOM? Why are you wasting your item and Trick Room turns on that?

Drop Machamp for the previously mentioned Conkledurr. Flame Orb Guts Facade, you know. It's just straight up better. Who needs to confuse when you inflict the best status condition of all, KO. However since you're running Trick Room maybe go Ice Punch / Drain Punch / Facade / Knock Off. Alternatively if you want to be unique you can run guts Flame Orb Ursaring. Facade / Close Combat / Crunch / Swords Dance. Pretty much the only thing in OU you need Crunch for is Blacephalon so Fire Punch is acceptable too. +0 Fire Punch does 45% minimum to Blaceph lol so you can probably break it regardless.

252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 261-307 (85.8 - 100.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
hahaha

Gosilopod is cool but CHOICE BAND First Impression? It's like you want to give your opponents a chance to setup on you. Drop if for a Choice Band Tapu Bulu. Grassy Terrain buffers your slight ground weakness and it just hits like a truck with Wood Hammer.

M Ampharos is so bad. Zero wall breaking ability and it doesn't even hit all that hard. You hit with as much power as a Life Orb's base 115 attacker. Pathetic considering none of your attacks have more than 100 base power. Just go the standard Mega Mawile. Play Rough / Sucker Punch / Thunder Punch / Swords Dance

Magearna is fine and so are the EVs but run either Fairium Z or Fightium Z with Fleur Cannon / Focus Blast / Tbolt / Trick Room. You don't need a cleric on hyper offense, just use Cress's Lunar Dance if you REALLY need a heal.

Cresselia and Stakataka are fine I guess but you're asking a lot out of them. If you aren't running it full Banded offensive Stakataka you might as well just run a Trick Room suicide lead Bronzong. SR / Trick Room / Explosion / EQ or Gyro Ball

That should make your team at least reasonably competent. You would need to make some sort of unique tweaks later in the ladder as you learn higher tier play but this should certainly help you break out of 1300.

 

[Bold School]

Now, I appreciate that you found my team useful, but there is a small problem with this statement.
My team wasn’t Trick Room.
It was a Thunder Wave + Tailwind team, and the reason I didn’t use Trick Room was because Prisoner952 said that Vikavolt was better at abusing Trick Room. Now I haven’t used that before, but I trust his/her judgement and experience and I strongly recommend you try that out.

I'm sorry. I must have misremembered. Maybe it was that Trick Room was suggested and it never actually happened with it?

Either way, Vikavolt is an interesting suggestion. I'll have to consider it. Although, I'm not sure I'll appreciate adding another flying/rock weakness to the team. So we'll see. The dragon typing on Mega Ampharos was also useful for fire types. I would have to figure all that out if I were to use it.

 

[Bold School]

Thank you for the advice. I'm not sure you entirely understand where I'm coming from. Even so, I appreciate the fact that it appears you are trying to be helpful. So thank you for that.

But the reality is I was bad and because I wouldn't accept it I stayed stuck in the low ladder where garbage like Shuca berry Mawile could actually work. You know, against people who don't know how the type chart works. I was up my own ass with how good I was so I never improved. The first step to getting good at something is to admit you're not very good in the first place.

That's a cool story and all. I'm not really the same situation, even if I probably appear that way to you now. I don't have trouble admitting I'm wrong when I actually am wrong. But if I don't have reason to believe I am wrong, I'm not going to lie about it and cave in when I still disagree for actual reasons. You can disagree with me. That's your prerogative. I don't believe I have no room to improve. That's the opposite of how I think. There is always room for improvement. At the same time, I'm more experienced overall then anyone here seems to want to believe. These extremes of either being an expert or total suck are quite tiresome for me. I don't appreciate being put into a box I don't actually fit into. It's one of my pet peeves.

Anyhow Quick Claw sucks because even the rare times it works you're still using an unboosted Machamp. Fighting type sucks in OU. So much fairy / flying / psychic spam. Literally 50% of OU resists fighting and a huge portion of the tier OHKOs you. Even if you get the Dynamic punch confuse who cares? Confusion was nerfed to 30%, it won't even do much unless you hax.

OU is full of steel types and has some dark types. Machamp has Stone Edge to hit most flying and bug types and Earthquake to hit poison types. Although, the Toxapex matchup is still a bit less than ideal. Poison Jab hits fairies. The coverage for the set was actually good. The damage is good, not great. It still gets a lot of 1 and 2 hit KOs.

It could be debated that a better damage item on Machamp might fair better than relying on hax. The damage is good, but not great. At the same time, hax happens enough here where I have felt it is worth it so for. Like Stone Edge is sometimes called Stone Miss because 80% accuracy misses a good deal of the time. Even 20% isn't insignificant. It's a fifth of the time.

Either way, I'm not going to debate the Machamp thing further. I know everyone on here thinks it sucks. If I drop it, it will be on my own terms.

Edit: I didn't actually look at the team lol. You're running Quick Claw AND First Impression Gosilopod on TRICK ROOM? Why are you wasting your item and Trick Room turns on that?

It seems you missed the point of my RMT. The point was to have a team that could actually do something when Trick Room wasn't up because it's not entirely reliable. Trick Room archetype is not something I have a ton of experience with. From my attempts in the past and what I have researched, it's not really in a good place right now for a number of reasons. I feel that a team with a more flexible approach might do better than the by the book specialist teams that mostly seem to have limitations. Obviously, I'm not there yet myself. This was supposed to be the start. We'll see.

Gosilopod is cool but CHOICE BAND First Impression? It's like you want to give your opponents a chance to setup on you. Drop if for a Choice Band Tapu Bulu. Grassy Terrain buffers your slight ground weakness and it just hits like a truck with Wood Hammer.

Golisopod has priority that works outside of Trick Room. I have used it mostly for the priority on other teams in this tier and others. I listed some relevant OU 1HKOs with priority. Yes, the Choice Band set works if it is on the right team. For Trick Room, you can take advantage of the slower moves and use the priority sparingly when needed.

Tapu Bulu is a good suggestion. It would help the grass type weakness I have and it could even take fighting moves. The problem is it has no priority. So it doesn't function outside of Trick Room the same way. Although, Tapu Bulu itself is viable outside of Trick Room. But it's more of a wall breaker in that context.

M Ampharos is so bad. Zero wall breaking ability and it doesn't even hit all that hard. You hit with as much power as a Life Orb's base 115 attacker. Pathetic considering none of your attacks have more than 100 base power. Just go the standard Mega Mawile. Play Rough / Sucker Punch / Thunder Punch / Swords Dance

I find the damage to be good enough for now. Although, I'm not saying that can't be improved. What I like most about Mega Ampharos is how Volt Switch let's you keep momentum, especially as you run out of Trick Room turns. Having said that, this could easily be replicated by other pokemon. If I had to pick one, though, I'm pretty sure I would want a special attacker. I don't want a team with too many physical attackers.

Magearna is fine and so are the EVs but run either Fairium Z or Fightium Z with Fleur Cannon / Focus Blast / Tbolt / Trick Room. You don't need a cleric on hyper offense, just use Cress's Lunar Dance if you REALLY need a heal.

I wanted a Trick Room pivot more than I wanted the offensive Magearna set. Volt Switch lets me gain momentum. Heal Bell ensures my Trick Room abusers don't get warn down by poison or nerfed by burn. Z Heal Bell keeps my Trick Room pivot alive longer, which ensures my attackers get more clean Trick Room stints.

Cresselia and Stakataka are fine I guess but you're asking a lot out of them. If you aren't running it full Banded offensive Stakataka you might as well just run a Trick Room suicide lead Bronzong. SR / Trick Room / Explosion / EQ or Gyro Ball

Bronzong is an interesting suggestion for a Stealth Rocker. It's true that it may be a better fit than Stakataka, which I have been a bit down on. I may try it.

The biggest thing I'm having trouble with is fitting both hazards and hazard removal. In general, I'm finding it difficult to justify making room for it. Is this normal on Trick Room teams? I have been trying to find Defog or even Rapid Spin support in Trick Room setters, but there aren't many that can do both and I feel like I mainly have 1 slot for it since Magearna and Cresselia are good. Claydol was a thought that seemed rather underwhelming.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Alright, fine. While I still think Conk is the generally superior option, there is some merit to forcing a switch with Machamp, and then having the confusion pressure your opponent to switch again, even if it is just a 33% chance to happen. But the Quick Claw seriously needs to go. Choice Band, Life Orb, or Black Belt are the most obvious replacements, but you could also go with Leftovers to heal as the opponent switches, or even something crazy like Leppa Berry to allow you to be more reckless with your Dynamic Punch spam.

Spikes on Golisopod might be interesting to further punish the opponent for switching around the confusion. Not sure what move it should replace, though.

Also, if you go through with replacing Amp with Vikavolt, you might want to consider replacing Golisopod with a different Water or Dragon type, because having two Rock-weak bugs on a team without hazard removal seems sketchy. Though most of your other options seem even more sketchy: Tall Exeggutor, Drampa, Turtonator, Guzzlord, Mega Slowbro, Azumarill (probably the most similar), Crawdaunt (okay, maybe it's just the Dragons that are sketchy), Clawitzer (never mind), Araquanid (arguably more similar than Azu, but lacks priority), and Wishiwashi.

For Magearna, maybe consider phys def? It lets you take offensive Lando's EQ fairly comfortably, while still OHKOing defensive Lando with Ice Beam.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Magearna: 234-276 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 392-464 (102.6 - 121.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[MrHands]

Just try it lol. I can guarantee my changes will help you break past whatever ladder rank you're stuck at. I play a lot of Trick Room. I'm no expert by any means but one of the major points of playing Trick Room is that your team should actually focus on keeping it active.

Trick Room is a Hyper offense strategy. If you feel Trick Room is down enough to validate Banded First Impression then you need to update the team to more reliably keep Trick Room active. Trick Room sweepers run a lot of bulk due to no speed investment so it's not like you're helpless once TR ends.

Don't waste time with Defog or spinning. Just attack. Games shouldn't typically last more than 15 turns so you don't gain much from defogging.

 

[Bold School]

Alright, fine. While I still think Conk is the generally superior option, there is some merit to forcing a switch with Machamp, and then having the confusion pressure your opponent to switch again, even if it is just a 33% chance to happen. But the Quick Claw seriously needs to go. Choice Band, Life Orb, or Black Belt are the most obvious replacements, but you could also go with Leftovers to heal as the opponent switches, or even something crazy like Leppa Berry to allow you to be more reckless with your Dynamic Punch spam.

I said I wasn't going to debate this anymore. But this actually seems like a fair attempt at a compromise suggestion. Not 100% sure I'll do it. I'm at least open to trying things along these lines. Never thought of Leppa berry. I kind of want to try it now. Don't think I would want choice item on Machamp in any case since it thrives on forcing switches and needs to be able to use different moves.

Spikes on Golisopod might be interesting to further punish the opponent for switching around the confusion. Not sure what move it should replace, though.

This is a good suggestion for squeezing in hazards. I have had Spikes suggested on Golisopod sets before. The reason why I always seem to wind up sicking with Choice Band in the past is to ensure the 1HKOs on priority, which has been particularly important for viability in OU. This is somewhat less important in Trick Room given that the other slower attacks are more reliable under it. However, it still has the problem of damage on those slower moves. I'm also not sure what move I would switch it out for, since I find both priority moves to be important backup options for the premise of keeping some usability outside of Trick Room.

Also, if you go through with replacing Amp with Vikavolt, you might want to consider replacing Golisopod with a different Water or Dragon type, because having two Rock-weak bugs on a team without hazard removal seems sketchy. Though most of your other options seem even more sketchy: Tall Exeggutor, Drampa, Turtonator, Guzzlord, Mega Slowbro, Azumarill (probably the most similar), Crawdaunt (okay, maybe it's just the Dragons that are sketchy), Clawitzer (never mind), Araquanid (arguably more similar than Azu, but lacks priority), and Wishiwashi.

I mostly agree with this. Vikavolt is an inconvenient typing to put on my team. I thought of other slow electric types. Mainly Magnezone and Alolan Golem came up. But Alolan Golem is physical and not exactly ideal. Not sure I needed a Magnezone to trap steel types. But it could deal with Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Celesteela as an added bonus to everything else.

If I were going for Dragon types, I think the choice I would consider is Dragalge for Adaptability and maybe even Toxic Spikes. Though this doesn't have a switching move and it's natural special attack is mediocre.

My first instinct is that the best replacements for Golisopod (if I do actually do this) would be Azumarrill or Crawdaunt. Although, I'm not sure I would want to set up on Azu multiple times a game. Adaptability Aqua Jet might be decent. The lack of First Impression could hurt.

If I get rid of Mega Ampharos, I guess that also means I have a Mega slot. Not sure if Mega Slowbro is worth it as an attacker. Might it be decent as a Trick Room setter? Although it seems regular Slowbro might be better based on it's abilities. Eh. Maybe not either. Mega Audino is not usually considered OU. But I guess a set could technically work if I wanted to replace Cresselia's role with a non Psychic type and bring in something kind of dumb like defensive Mew or Claydol for hazard control? It's not really standard but it might work ok. Or it might be trash. I'm just trying to think how I can sneak in hazard control.

For Magearna, maybe consider phys def? It lets you take offensive Lando's EQ fairly comfortably, while still OHKOing defensive Lando with Ice Beam.

I like this suggestion a lot. I generally barely live Landorus-Therian Earthquake with it. This would give me more breathing room.

 

[Bold School]

Just try it lol. I can guarantee my changes will help you break past whatever ladder rank you're stuck at. I play a lot of Trick Room. I'm no expert by any means but one of the major points of playing Trick Room is that your team should actually focus on keeping it active.

To be fair, I already said I posted this team before I finished trying to ladder. I don't actually know its true capabilities. While I suspect it isn't top tier as is, it's not necessarily capped at where I'm currently ranked. Yes, I'm still trying to make it better anyway because a better team will do obviously do better.

Trick Room is a Hyper offense strategy. If you feel Trick Room is down enough to validate Banded First Impression then you need to update the team to more reliably keep Trick Room active. Trick Room sweepers run a lot of bulk due to no speed investment so it's not like you're helpless once TR ends.

Well there are several things that counter Trick Room teams, including Taunt and sometimes other Trick Room teams. So I was hoping the lack of reliance on it would help with bad matchups.

As far as keeping Trick Room active, that's the reason why I tried to make Magearna a pivot instead of an offensive set.

Don't waste time with Defog or spinning. Just attack. Games shouldn't typically last more than 15 turns so you don't gain much from defogging.

As much as this aggressiveness resonates with my soul, I feel like my team would benefit from even emergency hazard removal. Otherwise, I have no answer for Toxic Spikes and things that are weak to rocks can't switch in as freely. Some of my Trick Room games with this team have been more stally or than hyper offense, which could be good or bad depending on your outlook.

 

[MrHands]

To be fair, I already said I posted this team before I finished trying to ladder. I don't actually know its true capabilities. While I suspect it isn't top tier as is, it's not necessarily capped at where I'm currently ranked. Yes, I'm still trying to make it better anyway because a better team will do obviously do better.

Yeah but dude you've shot down basically every single suggestion anyone has offered. Try new things on the ladder. you can always switch back if you don't like it.

Well there are several things that counter Trick Room teams, including Taunt and sometimes other Trick Room teams. So I was hoping the lack of reliance on it would help with bad matchups.

Yeah that's what Mental Herb is for lol. As for other Trick Room teams... just know your speed tiers and don't waste time Trick Rooming?

As far as keeping Trick Room active, that's the reason why I tried to make Magearna a pivot instead of an offensive set.

You already have Cresselia for that. You're making your team more passive for no reason.

As much as this aggressiveness resonates with my soul, I feel like my team would benefit from even emergency hazard removal. Otherwise, I have no answer for Toxic Spikes and things that are weak to rocks can't switch in as freely. Some of my Trick Room games with this team have been more stally or than hyper offense, which could be good or bad depending on your outlook.

You have three Pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes and three that resist Stealth Rock. Who cares if you take like 12% each turn? You should be dealing significant damage back. Let them waste their time setting up hazards and go for the win.

If you can describe your games as stally either remove the trick room aspect or adjust your team to play more aggressively.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

The reason why I always seem to wind up sicking with Choice Band in the past is to ensure the 1HKOs on priority, which has been particularly important for viability in OU.

There's nothing stopping you from running Choice + Spikes. Ash Gren pulls it off phenomenally well.

Although, I'm not sure I would want to set up on Azu multiple times a game.

You could go Banded on Azu. Play Rough, Jet, Waterfall, Knock

 

[Bold School]

Yeah but dude you've shot down basically every single suggestion anyone has offered. Try new things on the ladder. you can always switch back if you don't like it.

No I haven't. I am considering a lot of the suggestions, including some of yours like Bronzong. I disagree with some of them. Don't make it sound like I can't take any advice just because I don't automatically agree with every single thing other people tell me. I am going for something that isn't supposed to be 100% textbook. People seem to have hard time accepting that, and then blame me for being stubborn about it. It works both ways.

When you give advice, you should consider what the point of the team is. Now I appreciate your advice. I'm not obligated to take all of it. Even if I don't, it's still more helpful than not to think it through in most cases. So thank you.

Yeah that's what Mental Herb is for lol. As for other Trick Room teams... just know your speed tiers and don't waste time Trick Rooming?

The trouble is I can't stop other Trick Rooms from setting up very easily. So if they have better speed for it, they can still set up Trick Room. I can counter it with my own Trick Room but that gets a bit silly. To be honest, I haven't face too many other opposing Trick Room teams with it yet. So I don't know if it will be a major problem yet. It is something I'm anticipating. The only other serious Trick Room team I made was doubles OU on another account a few years back. That was a semi-Trick Room team with only one setter. It did fairly well against normal teams but horrible against full Trick Room teams. I'm wary of the matchup.

Mental Herb works only once. Currently, I already run it on Cressselia. I may benefit more overall from a healing item on it due to it being a necessary defensive check for certain things in some games. I could keep Mental Herb on Cresselia or put it on something else. Since my Trick Room setters aren't entirely set in stone, I'm still up in the air with that.

You already have Cresselia for that. You're making your team more passive for no reason.

Cresselia doesn't have a pivot move and has Lunar Dance which often decreases its longevity. Magearna can be a pivot pretty much all game and I find it helpful. I had somewhat similar advice given to me on my Bug monotype team not to long ago, and in the end the momentum type synergy proved to be better for me than all out sweeping sets when I tested it all. That was a hyper offense team, too.

There's no way to know for sure if that will still be the case for this team without testing. However, maximizing Trick Room turns is something even you told me to do multiple times. That's exactly what this Magearna set helps me do. I can't tell if you are just giving me conflicting advice here or if you are just confused to its purpose. I did explain this before.

You have three Pokemon immune to Toxic Spikes and three that resist Stealth Rock. Who cares if you take like 12% each turn? You should be dealing significant damage back. Let them waste their time setting up hazards and go for the win.

This is a fair point. My team is in flux but even so... It's probably correct in most cases. I think I would like an emergency clear or something for Golisopod if I keep it or my opponent got crazy with hazards. It is true that it may not be necessary. I'll fit it in if I can. But I won't stress about it anymore.

If you can describe your games as stally either remove the trick room aspect or adjust your team to play more aggressively.

I said some of my games are more stally. Not all. That said, you may be right about me needing a stronger offensive presence. I'm considering several suggestion that help me do that. Keep in mind that this doesn't mean I'll get rid of all my utility in order to do so.

 

[MrHands]

No I haven't. I am considering a lot of the suggestions, including some of yours like Bronzong. I disagree with some of them. Don't make it sound like I can't take any advice just because I don't automatically agree with every single thing other people tell me. I am going for something that isn't supposed to be 100% textbook. People seem to have hard time accepting that, and then blame me for being stubborn about it. It works both ways.

You've been given great advice from multiple people and shot down basically all of it. Have you even tried any of it? What's the point of a RMT if you admit being new yet refuse to even TRY to learn the playstyle? How can you say you're going for something not 100% textbook when you don't even know what textbook is?

When you give advice, you should consider what the point of the team is. Now I appreciate your advice. I'm not obligated to take all of it. Even if I don't, it's still more helpful than not to think it through in most cases. So thank you.

The point of this team is Trick Room. Trick Room is offense. If you want a bulky mid-range team you should just do that. Don't even waste turns with Trick Room is you don't plan on really using it.

The trouble is I can't stop other Trick Rooms from setting up very easily. So if they have better speed for it, they can still set up Trick Room. I can counter it with my own Trick Room but that gets a bit silly. To be honest, I haven't face too many other opposing Trick Room teams with it yet. So I don't know if it will be a major problem yet. It is something I'm anticipating. The only other serious Trick Room team I made was doubles OU on another account a few years back. That was a semi-Trick Room team with only one setter. It did fairly well against normal teams but horrible against full Trick Room teams. I'm wary of the matchup.

If your opponent's team is full of a bunch of 50 base speed Pokemon with negative natures and 0 IVs I do not suggest even wasting time using Trick Room in most cases.

Mental Herb works only once. Currently, I already run it on Cressselia. I may benefit more overall from a healing item on it due to it being a necessary defensive check for certain things in some games. I could keep Mental Herb on Cresselia or put it on something else. Since my Trick Room setters aren't entirely set in stone, I'm still up in the air with that.

Very few Pokemon in OU even use Taunt. You want Mental Herb so you can set up on, and kill those few that do. You don't want to insta-lose to a random lead Taunt Tornadus right?

Cresselia doesn't have a pivot move and has Lunar Dance which often decreases its longevity.

Lunar Dance is a pivot move. Explosion Bronzong is also a pivot. Regardless Trick Room teams don't need multiple free pivots. TR Pokemon pretty much always run max HP investment and under Trick Room should be able to move first. So it's okay to hard switch sometimes.

Magearna can be a pivot pretty much all game and I find it helpful. I had somewhat similar advice given to me on my Bug monotype team not to long ago, and in the end the momentum type synergy proved to be better for me than all out sweeping sets when I tested it all. That was a hyper offense team, too.

Bug monotype and OU Trick Room are... very different things. Offensive TR Magearna can 6-0 teams on its own. You're crippling your own team because you can't comprehend that offensive teams are supposed to be offensive, especially when your sweepers are bound to a Trick Room timer.

There's no way to know for sure if that will still be the case for this team without testing. However, maximizing Trick Room turns is something even you told me to do multiple times. That's exactly what this Magearna set helps me do. I can't tell if you are just giving me conflicting advice here or if you are just confused to its purpose. I did explain this before.

Magearna is bulky but expecting it to set up Trick Room many times over a match while also Heal belling is unrealistic. You already have Cresselia for repeated Trick Rooms yet you insist on running a passive Mag set. Just TRY the standard offensive set. It you used it at all you would immediately see what the big deal is.

This is a fair point. My team is in flux but even so... It's probably correct in most cases. I think I would like an emergency clear or something for Golisopod if I keep it or my opponent got crazy with hazards. It is true that it may not be necessary. I'll fit it in if I can. But I won't stress about it anymore.

Then the solution is to remove Gosilopod.

I said some of my games are more stally. Not all. That said, you may be right about me needing a stronger offensive presence. I'm considering several suggestion that help me do that. Keep in mind that this doesn't mean I'll get rid of all my utility in order to do so.

Just actually try it. Quick Claw Machamp is just the first of many, many issues here.

 

[Ronneberg]

Machamp @ Quick Claw
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab

I know what you are thinking. Quick Claw isn't a viable item, right? Except that it actually works on Machamp. It's a somewhat similar concept to why paralyses/flinch works on Togekiss, except it's confusion/priority instead. The Quick Claw hax combines with the confusion hax of a Dynamic Punch that always hits. So if you hit a Dynamic Punch on the switch you forced, there are now 2 different hax mechanisms working where you can go before your opponent. And since Machamp is bulky enough to generally live at least one non super effective hit, this can result in you taking some opposing pokemon out even on regular teams. That is an important sticking point. I have tested Quick Claw Machamp in RU, UU, and OU and it can work even without assisting speed control beyond Quick Claw.

Now I'm going to leave my own spinach at the port as well. I am a huge fan of Machamp! In RU.
Machamp's drop in usage because of Pokemon like Conkeldurr in generation 5 has viable reasons, Conkeldurr is bulkier and has Mach Punch, as well as higher attacking stats and Drain Punch. Its increased bulk and STAB priority suits the team better in this one and many other cases, also, Conkeldurr is way sturdier with Drain Punch than Machamp. Your single argument in favor of Machamp is luck-based, which is a solid no in my book.
Try an all-out-attacking set maybe

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

Golisopod @ Choice Band
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Aqua Jet

I know, I know. I have now posted this set in like the last 3 RMTs I have done. Is it getting old? Maybe. I swear I'm not doing this on purpose. And I'm sure most people who give me advice on changes still hate it and hate my Choice Band set even more so, despite the fact that it does actually work in OU. (And RU, UU, Monotype, etc.) Golisopod has been on many of my recent test concepts for various reasons, and I realized that it also just happened to fit the concept of a Trick Room team that works outside of Trick Room extremely well. So sorry not sorry, I'm putting here because it works outside of Trick Room despite being a slow pokemon. How? Priority. Choice Band Golisopod hits like a truck with priority. I'm not going to get too much into it since I have talked about it enough in past RMTs.

What does this realistically do? Trick Room has zero problem revenging anything, why Golisopod. I think you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of Trick Room. I used Trick Room in Ubers, in OU, in UU, in RU and in PU (I play next to no NU) and the general idea is always the same: hyper offense. Trick Room turns are severely limited, so you need to make exactly every turn work out 100% or you'll see yourself slamming against a wall. Use something else, or don't. I don't know what to switch it out with right now, probably Alolan Marowak. And if you insist on using it, please use Spikes over Liquidation so that it can actually do something.

With two main physical attackers, I needed a special attacker that could take advantage of Trick Room. I then remembered a Trick Room team concept by 737373elj based around the use of Mega Ampharos. It works pretty well for this team. The electric STAB hits flying and water types that may give my other main attackers some trouble. I think my favorite thing about it is that Volt Switch lets it both attack and swap out on the last turn of Trick Room so that you can set up again without losing momentum. For EVs, I just went the typical power and natural bulk route with HP and special attack. Thunderbolt and Volt Switch are the powerful and utility STAB moves respectively, Dragon Pulse is different STAB, and HP Ice one shots cheeky Landorus, Gliscor, and Garchomp that think they can switch into this under Trick Room. Static is used before Mega evolving to sometimes inflict paralyses.

Now it may only be me, but what in Jesus Christ's name did you think about using Mega Ampharos over Mega Camerupt on Trick Room?
The camel has amazing STAB coverage, the sheep doesn't, it sucks, in fact. The only thing this thing will kill are the afformentioned 4x weak to ice mons and water types stupid enough to stay in, realistically speaking. And its STAB combination gets walled way too easily in order to reliably work. Camerupt runs HP ice too and in addition to that, fire+ground is difficult to handle, also, Camerupt has stronger STAB base power and the possibility to run Eruption.

Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Magearna @ Normalium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick Room
- Heal Bell
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch

With my main attackers out of the way, I needed to work on my Trick Room setters. My priority here was to have a pivot with utility. While Magearna is often used as an offensive Trick Room setter, it actually has a lot of tools to be a good support pokemon. Volt Switch allows it to switch to an attacker after setting up Trick Room without sacrificing itself. Heal Bell is great for getting rid of pesky Status like Burn or Toxic that would otherwise cripple my main attackers, and Z Heal Bell is a full heal that keeps Magearna able to do it's job longer. Ice Beam is to hit ground types like Landorus-Therian, which is a bane to much of my team.

This is hands down the best Trick Room setter I have. The only thing I'm not 100% sure on with this set is if I want to keep the max special attack investment. It works well enough as is. However, it's not exactly meant to be an attacker. In theory, it might be worthwhile to invest more in my defense or special defense at least a bit instead of special attack. So far, I have't had enough trouble with it to be bothered to try and optimize it better. I'm sure it can be, though.

No. Use offensive Trick Room Magearna, I beg you, it is OU's Trick Room staple you should NEVER leave home without it because it's way too good to give up on. If you're concerned with Trick Room reliability, use a rocks Uxie suicide lead and replace that useless Golisopod.

Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Uxie @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
- U-turn

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Trick Room
- Lunar Dance

This set provide 4 crucial things for my team: A Trick Room setter, a ground immunity, a fighting resist, and a momentum sacrifice heal. It mostly fits my team very well. There are times where I feel it can be better optimized, though. I went with mostly a defensive spread because I needed something that could take some abuse from physical attackers with Earthquake or fighting STAB. Ice Beam is to counterattack ground types (again) and Psychic is to counter attack fighting and poison types. Lunar Dance is an amazing Healing Wish like move that gains momentum and also cures status. Mental Herb was added for Taunt users to ensure I got the Trick Room off. However, I'm increasingly finding that some sort of heal is more needed on it in most games. So I may replace that with Leftover or a recovery berry.

Fine with that

Stakataka @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Atk / 248 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

This is the one I'm least sure about. I added it primarily because I needed a Stealth Rocker and it was a decent attacker for a setter. There are two main issues. First, it gets wrecked by two different 4X weaknesses way too often. My team doesn't exactly appreciate ground and fighting vulnerability on a team where Magearna is the main pivot. Second, it has no hazard removal. There aren't many viable Trick Room setters with both hazard removal and hazards. So I just picked one that I thought I needed more and it mostly works ok enough. However, it's also far from what I would consider optimal.

The EVs were made to optimize the natural bulk of Stakataka's base 211 defense by investing in HP and special defense. A bit of attack investment is used to put Stakataka's attack EVs at just over 300. Gyro Ball is great STAB that hits most fairies and fast mons that don't resist it hard. Earthquake is coverage against opposing steel and electric types that may resist Gyro Ball.

Look how they massacred my boy...
What did he do to deserve such a sad existence? I'm going to say this once and only once, STAKA IS ONE OF THE BEST TRICK ROOM MONS TO EVER EXIST.
Get rid of the rocks, give the man Stone Edge and slap a Shuca on him.

Stakataka @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Lonely Nature
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

 

[xOliver]

You post an RMT, you ask for advice, you shoot it down, then complain. What the heck is wrong with you?

 

[MrHands]

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off

Burn Orb with Facade > Knock Off or Mach Punch. 50% boost rather than 30%, and 6.25% damage rather than 10%. You also get a 140 base power move to bust through non-ghost Fighting resists. Burn Orb Guts is pretty much the only thing that makes Conk usable at all. If you're not using BO Guts you might as well just use something else.

 

[airfare]

1300 low ladder clowns stay crazy
dont ask for advice if you dont want it bud
machamp is in ru for a reason so ditch it

 

[Bold School]

I have taken some time to think about all this. There is too much to respond to so I'm going to address the general things instead. I think I have gotten things more messy than I needed to by replying to nearly every individual point, and lost in that is some of what I have been actually trying to say. However, it really bothers me when things are misrepresented and/or misunderstood and so I was trying to correct all that. I think now that I went about it the wrong way.

At the same time, I wish people were better at listening to what I was actually saying. Not necessarily agreeing with it. I'm not always right. Just try to understand the real message I'm trying to get across. For example, when Mr Hands tells me repeatedly that I haven't taken hardly any advice, despite the fact that I already addressed and debunked that, and he still goes back to the same line in response to the very quote that debunked it, that's the sort of thing I find frustrating. It's just ignoring me for the sake of a narrative. There have been a lot of false narratives brewing in the post and I kindly ask you all to stop them.

About taking advice... I appreciate people trying to be helpful. There seems to be the general sentiment that I'm supposed to just automatically do everything anyone suggests to me no matter what it is. I don't see how that is reasonable in every circumstance. If someone came to this post and suggested something we all could agree is nonviable in OU, like a physical Mr. Mime set, all of you would be on here telling me to ignore that and to not do it. Right? By the same token, I can't physically take every single suggestion I have gotten so far and fit it all into a 6 mon team. Even if I were to accept everything suggested with no questions asked, there just wouldn't be room for it all. It's just not realistic or reasonable for people to tell me to take everything given to me no matter what. There are limits to these sorts of things, right? By the same taken, it's entirely unreasonable to suggest I take no advice just because I don't take some of it.

Let me just reiterate that I appreciate people trying to be helpful. I'll get into what I'm considering again when I talk about what I plan to do with the team going forward. Contrary to what seems to be the prevalent belief, I am open minded about most things relating to this team. Just not everything. So when I discuss those select things and the reasons why I disagree, it seems to rub people the wrong way. This isn't my intention. It was the result this time. Personally, I feel like I have been taken way out of context on most of this.

**Since I started writing this, there have been several more people (you know who you are) coming out of the woodwork acting like I take no advice whatsoever. This is incorrect. Please stop perpetuating this false narrative. Any reasonable person should be able to see the truth is in the middle of the extremes some seem to be latching onto.

About the point of my team... I have heard/read multiple people that said the Trick Room archetype isn't in a good place right now. Is this true? It's possible that I have been operating under a false premise so please correct me if I'm wrong about that. When I researched it, these were my findings. So I decided to create a Trick Room team concept that was more adaptable to get around some of the perceived issues. That's why I added things that I felt could help with this. I don't believe by any stretch my team was perfect. I do believe it was a halfway decent start. I guess we'll see. It may be a fair point which a couple of you already sort of brought up that maybe I am not experienced enough in Trick Room to pull this sort of thing off yet. That could be the case. I still feel differently at this time.

People have been suggesting a lot of standard Trick Room things for suggestions. I want to reiterate that I did a bunch of research before making the team. I looked into pokemon that are standard like Conkeldurr and Alolan Marowak and I didn't think they fit what I wanted. There have been some suggestions since then that might fit better. I'm not sure how it will all work out.

What I plan to do with the team going forward:

So there is too much advice for me to try everything. As I said before, there isn't room on the team for all of it. Now some of it is conflicting from different people as well. So I will likely have to try multiple things before I can figure out what works best. I have sorted it all out into sections with multiple things to try for each one.

Trick Room Setters:

It seems like the main consensus is to keep Magearna and Cresselia, even if some want different sets or whatever. I tend to agree with this since those are my best setters. I'm going to drop Stakataka since its the worst performer on my team and my set is sort of suboptimal anyway. I don't think the better set fits my team right now. In its place, I'm going to try the suicide lead options for both Bronzong and Uxie, starting with Bronzong. For Magearna, the defensive EV investment that DrPumpkinz suggested resonated more with me for now than an offensive set. That may change if a suicide lead changes my need for momentum. But I don't know how that will work out yet. If I do eventually go offensive Magearna, I'll likely go with something similar to what Ronneburg suggested. I may or may not keep Volt Switch in the process.

Machamp:

I have decided to go with the suggestion of DrPumpkinz to try a different item. The main merit I see here is potentially increasing the damage. The damage output is currently good, but not great. While Quick Claw isn't as useless on this particular set as people make it out to be, even though it normally is fairly useless on most other sets, I can see how upgrading the damage might be better and more reliable. I'm going to try Life Orb. It's not as damaging as a Guts set, but it has a big damage boost with somewhat similar HP loss mechanics and I get to keep most of my utility with Dynamic Punch. We'll see if it works better.

Golisopod:

I don't know if I'm ultimately going to drop it or not. Golisopod does more work than people realize with heavy hitting Liquidate and Leech Life and the priority is already good in OU under normal circumstances. Spikes was a good suggestion. I just can't make myself drop any of the moves 4 it since they are all important.

That said, there were some suggestions I might consider if I could maybe get more damage out of the spot. I'm going to try Azumarrill and maybe Crawdaunt. I think I'll use what works best out of the 3.

There was also a Mega Mawhile suggestion, which could work because of Sucker Punch. I didn't want to use it because I wanted a special attacker to replace Ampharos. But if I had a different special attacker to replace that, I realized that Mega Mawhile could become a viable option to consider as a potential replacement for Golisopod. The main thing that makes me nervous about it is potentially having too many steel types on the team at once. So this would heavily depend on the rest of the team and what I do with it.

Mega Ampharos:

I decided to try replacement options for it since I agree the damage output could be improved there. There are a lot of them so I'm not sure what one I'll end up with. At first, I was focused on electric types like Vikavolt and Magnezone for STAB Volt Switch. However, I did just now see Ronneburg's Mega Camerupt suggestion. Frankly, I really like that one. It has a Fire resist for my Steel types and it does a lot of damage with good coverage. It might be worth losing the utility of Volt Switch for. I was also briefly considering Dragalge. Not sure if I'll try it or not but it seems like it may be inferior.

Hazards + Hazard Removal:

I decided to listen to MrHands and not dwell on it for now. I think I'll have a suicide lead Stealth Rocker and leave it at that. If it becomes an issue then I'll adjust.

 

[Icemann]

Hi Bold School , I like playing TR a lot, and I think your off to a decent start so I'll give you a couple suggestions.
To comment on if TR is a good playstyle, it has not been good for most of Gen 7. The fact that you have so little TR turns, and its best setters are often mediocre pokemon otherwise (think cress, uxie) it can be pretty matchup based. So TR is not necessarily terrible, its just really hard to justify using the archetype when stuff like Mega Latias+Clef+4 other fat pokemon exist, those type of teams are much more consistent and less matchup based than TR. Don't get me wrong, sometimes you can just run through people with TR, but its not quite that simple.
I think you should check out Shadow Boning Patlop's Mom, it was a very notable TR RMT, and in my opinion does a lot of things right. The team is vey old but its concept is still really good IMO. The team was spammed for number of months and proved to be very good.
Now on to the suggestions, and to preface, I'm really going to try and ignore the walls of text above me because half of it is both sides just getting angry at each other for something not that important.

For me, keeping up momentum is KEY in winning with trick room. That is why nearly every single TR team does not run any cleric moves/defog or spin. You are super limited in your TR turns, and why would you want to waste your time using defog or heal bell when you could just hit the target with a huge attack. On paper it may seem great to defog or heal bell to help your team out, but what your really doing is just sapping up all the momentum your team had. The only cleric type move that you should really be using is lunar dance on cresselia, or memento on Uxie which both create momentum. Speaking of Uxie...

->
Uxie @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
- Magic Coat
Unfortunately Golisopod just doesn't cut it in OU, people have tried to make this thing work since day 1 of SM, but its really just not that amazing. You can't say that you tested it and that it works in OU when you have low ladder replays with opponents using non-viable mons. Although Uxie has nothing in common with Golisopod, it does add a great stealth rock lead for the team. Memento is able to neuter the opposing mon and bring in a powerful slow breaker after you set up TR. 2 other items to consider are Colbur berry, and red card, but mental herb is the overall best item because it allows Uxie to set up TR without fail. Uxie is amazing on trick room teams due to it creating amazing momentum with memento. Don't just blindly click memento though, if you are able to save uxie, it could set up TR again.

-> ////a different z move of your choice
Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room
I think the idea of Z heal bell is actually pretty cool, but IMO it just doesn't work on a trick room team. I know what your thinking, "why do you have like 5 suggestions for Magearna's item????" well its because Magearna is definitely your most customizable pokemon on the team. This pokemon can really do so much, hence why it is ranked S on the VR and is considered by some (including me) to be the best pokemon in OU right now. I use Electrium Z the most because it dicks on Celesteela, which can often times be a bitch to TR teams because of protect leech seed shenanigans. Although all the other items have their merits as well, like for example running leftiez if you choose to run a z move on Stakataka for example. If your team requires a different z move thats fine, but I probably would stray away from that as a whole. Although it is your team and I don't care a whole lot what you do with it, I'm just hear to give my assistance. Possible moves to go with Magearna are: Fleur, Flash cannon, Ice beam, thunder bolt, iron head, or even energy ball. The set I gave hear can easily be changed and I encourage you to try other options.

->
Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Slide
At one point I also tried to make Fabio work, but he is truly just TERRIBLE, like fr. Lets talk about viable TR megas. The mega pokemon I would consider for TR are: Mega Mawile, Mega Heracross, Mega Camerupt, and Mega Bannete (although in reality this probably sucks ass lmao). Their are other slow megas like abomasnow, aggron, or steelix, but they all suck for TR and are not worth considering at all IMO. Camel is pretty cool because of its coverage, sheer force, and ability to destroy celesteela and toxapex (possibly opening up move slots on magearna) not a whole lot to say about it other than its way better than fabio. Rock slide is for zard y and volc.

-> / and also EV spread change+move change
Stakataka @ Rockium Z/Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Stakataka is great on TR, but your just using him in the wrong way IMO. Ditch stealth rock, it saps momentum and Uxie can set them up. Go max attack to... well take advantage of Stakatakas huge attack stat. 15 Defense IV's plus a lonely nature allow beast boost to boost Stak's attack stat rather than defense. I probably wouldn't use shuca berry because you want the highest attack as possible, but if you really want to go ahead. Life orb is for if you are using a z move on magearna. Stakataka's main purpose is to just truck whatever is in front of it.

Now to talk about our star player...
-> probably any other item haha
Machamp @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off/Stone Edge
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
I know Machamp was important for your concept of the team, so I am not going to take him off. But quick claw is just so bad man please take it off. Sure, Quick claw may work every once and a while and work. But why use something that works at a very low rate, when you can run an item that makes a pokemon better basically all the time? With quick claw your just banking on luck and hax, that aint it man. I actually super like the idea of Machamp on TR teams so I think I'm gonna build a couple teams around him later on. Life orb seems like a suitable item for more damage, assault vest wouldn't be a bad item either. Knock off is great for getting rid of items lmao, stone edge is to hit stuff like volcarona or pelipper(although a good volc player would never switch into dynamic punch). Ice Punch is their to wack Lando or Gliscor who currently are a problem for the team. Bullet Punch rounds off the moves to hit fairies like clef, and diancie for good damage AND it gives your team priority. Priority is usually important on TR because sometimes its not possible to always be in TR, and that priority helps remedy your low speed.

Psychic -> Moonlight
It fixes your issue of staying healthy and you keep mental herb.

Other possible pokemon on TR if your feeling saucy
Hits hard, has prankster destiny bond and also has TR. Bulky TR setter, can be a bit passive at times though. / Both can be used as suicide leads over uxie, but are usually worse. Hits hard and can synergize well with camerupt if using nature power (allows camerupt to have energy ball in terrain). / Both hit ridiculously hard and have priority, DEFINITELY try these out.

Heres a paste of the team, hopefully this team can serve you well, of course it has weaknesses, plus I did this at 1 am so my brain is fried to all hell.
If you have any questions feel free to ask!!

 

[737373elj]

About taking advice... I appreciate people trying to be helpful. There seems to be the general sentiment that I'm supposed to just automatically do everything anyone suggests to me no matter what it is. I don't see how that is reasonable in every circumstance. If someone came to this post and suggested something we all could agree is nonviable in OU, like a physical Mr. Mime set, all of you would be on here telling me to ignore that and to not do it. Right? By the same token, I can't physically take every single suggestion I have gotten so far and fit it all into a 6 mon team. Even if I were to accept everything suggested with no questions asked, there just wouldn't be room for it all. It's just not realistic or reasonable for people to tell me to take everything given to me no matter what. There are limits to these sorts of things, right? By the same taken, it's entirely unreasonable to suggest I take no advice just because I don't take some of it.

Let me just reiterate that I appreciate people trying to be helpful. I'll get into what I'm considering again when I talk about what I plan to do with the team going forward. Contrary to what seems to be the prevalent belief, I am open minded about most things relating to this team. Just not everything. So when I discuss those select things and the reasons why I disagree, it seems to rub people the wrong way. This isn't my intention. It was the result this time. Personally, I feel like I have been taken way out of context on most of this.

**Since I started writing this, there have been several more people (you know who you are) coming out of the woodwork acting like I take no advice whatsoever. This is incorrect. Please stop perpetuating this false narrative. Any reasonable person should be able to see the truth is in the middle of the extremes some seem to be latching onto.

Very truly sorry I replied like I did. I was in a bad mood yesterday, and seeing your post probabaly made it worse. I acknowledge that you do take advice, and that’s great. Sorry for that post! I was being rude, and I didn’t stop to think over it.

 

[Ronneberg]

Burn Orb with Facade > Knock Off or Mach Punch. 50% boost rather than 30%, and 6.25% damage rather than 10%. You also get a 140 base power move to bust through non-ghost Fighting resists. Burn Orb Guts is pretty much the only thing that makes Conk usable at all. If you're not using BO Guts you might as well just use something else.

In my experience with Conkeldurr, pretty much anything works, I've tried AV, Bulk Up/Bulk Up + All-Out-Pummeling, Sleep Talk + Rest on T-Spikes Guts boosted, Guts + Flame Orb, Guts + Life Orb, Iron Fist + Life Orb, Choice Band, etcpp.
Every single set was good in its own way and the only reason I've brought up Life Orb + Guts was that it's my favorite one