Quality Control Documentation

[Philip7086]

For those of you who haven't heard, I will be heading a project which aims at ensuring the quality of our analyses are up to par with the standards expected of Smogon. To take on this daunting task, the plan is to follow two major courses of action:

1. Go through every set currently on-site, and pick out all of the bad/outdated ones to be fixed or purely taken down.

2. Review all sets posted from here on out to make sure that no bad sets get on-site in the future.

To complete the former, I will be assembling a team of battlers who I believe to be the cream of the crop in their respective tier. This team will be assigned Pokemon analyses on-site, which they will meticulously go through in order to pick out questionable sets. This includes anything from a set being outdated, having poor move choices, having a suboptimal EV spread, or even just lacking some vital information. These sets will be discussed by the rest of the team members, and even play-tested in the current metagame to see if they are actually good or not. If not, the sets will be updated or removed from the site completely.

I am going to put this out there right now: I do not plan on having excessively large teams for this. Members will be selected based off of a history of solid battling logic as well as being up to date with the current metagame. On top of that, I expect every member of the team to keep an open mind when it comes to evaluating sets.

The second part of this project will be an ongoing effort expected of every member of C&C. Lately it seems like most people only edit sets with grammar fixes and spelling checks, but that is not always enough. It cannot be forgotten that making sure a set is actually good (or at least the best it can be) is just as, if not more important than making sure it is written properly. Please post your opinions on all sets posted in this subforum, and so will the Quality Control Team (who has the final judgment on whether or not a set is worthy of being put on-site).

The Quality Control Team:

Decision Makers:

OU (Headed by Setsuna):
-Megan_Fox
-panamaxis
-Philip7086
-Plus
-remlabmez
-Setsuna.
-Seven Deadly Sins

UU (Headed by Heysup):
-Eo Ut Mortus
-FlareBlitz
-Heysup
-Twist of Fate
-whistle
-JabbaTheGriffin
-Thund91
-Bluewind

Ubers:
-bojangles
-Jibaku
-Theorymon
-Fireburn
-firecape
-Great Sage

LC (Headed by Vader):
-Vader
-eric the espeon
-Heysup
-dracoyoshi8
-KD24
-Kannon

Writers:

-Fuzznip
-j. franky
-Seven Deadly Sins
-Xia


Changes Made:

Regular Changes
Job for QC Writers
***Still Need to be Done

OU:

Aerodactyl:
-Took down CB set
-Changed the spread of the Stall set to 200 HP / 112 Atk / 148 Spe / 48 SpD, and mentioned Toxic in AC as an option

Azelf:
-This analysis needed no changes!!!

Blissey:
-Needs a revamp

Breloom:
-Removed Choice Band set
-Renamed "Non-Choice Attacker" to "Facade"
-Changed the standard EV spread to 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe (Poison Heal magic number, needed more speed for Rotom and BaitTar)

Bronzong:
-Replaced "Standard" with Payback and HP Ice set
-Rearranged sets to: Standard Wall -> Trick Zong -> Screener -> Trick Room -> Rest Talk -> Offensive Trick Room -> Torrential Zong
-Changed the order of Change Hypnosis / Reflect / Light Screen to Light Screen / Reflect / Hypnosis on Trick Room set

Celebi:
-Took down Choice Specs, and just talk about it in AC of Choice Scarf
-Combined "Cleric" and "Defensive" by simply slashing Heal Bell on Thunder Wave / Leech Seed / Reflect on the Defensive set
-Mentioned that Speed EVs need to be increased by 4 every time someone opts for HP Fire
-Slashed Leftovers on the "Life Orb" set and rename it to "Offensive"
-Took Rest off as an option and slash Thunder Wave in instead on "Offensive" set

Dragonite:
-Removed Specs set
-Removed Offensive DD set (there's no reason to use it over Salamence)
---Edit--- Added a Paragraph about Offensive DD set/spread in the Bulky DD analysis, and changed the name to "Dragon Dance"

Electivire:
-Removed Sub + Lieche set

Gengar:
-Rearranged sets to match viability
-Renamed "Standard" to "Life Orb" because it's not standard anymore

Gliscor:
-Put Toxic as the primary option over U-Turn on the Stall Breaker set
-Put Stall Breaker set as main set

Gyarados:
-Removed Sub Bounce set

Heatran:
-Added Fire Blast as the primary option on the Burn Support set
-Took down the Taunt set
-Rearranged sets to go in order of most viable

Heracross:
-Combined "Bulk Up" and "Bulk Up (Rest + Sleep Talk)" with the latter being the primary option***
-Removed Reversal set
-Removed Swarm set (Sub Salac)
-Removed Sleep Talk set
-Slashed Sleep Talk on both Choice sets

Hippowdon:
-Slashed Careful as main option on Curse set
-Slashed Life Orb on Choice Band set and mentioned how it could be used as an anti-lead (needs different spread, and new set perhaps?)***

Infernape:
-Rearranged sets so Physical Mix was at the top (most viable set currently)

Jirachi:
-Changed all Speed EVs for fast sets without a -Spe IV Hidden Powers to 252 Spe
-Rearranged sets to: Scarf -> Wish CM-> Lead -> Sub CM -> Superachi -> Mixed -> Support -> Screens
-Changed names of "Physical Choice" to "Choice Scarf" and "Physical Mixed" to "Mixed"
-Changed Lead set to Iron Head, Stealth Rock, U-turn / Trick, Fire Punch / Ice Punch / ThunderPunch
-Slashed Thunderbolt and HP Ground with HP Fire on Superachi
-De-slashed Zen Headbutt on Scarf set (put in AC), and de-emphasized Trick with a suggested moveset change from Iron Head, Fire Punch, Ice Punch / ThunderPunch, U-turn / Trick -> Iron Head, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, ThunderPunch / Trick / U-turn
-Removed slash for Thunder in Support set, but still mention in AC
-Removed Rain Support set and added to Optional Changes

Jolteon:
-Need to test Fake Tears set still***
-Took down Team Support set

Kingdra:
-Need to discuss removal of Specs set***

Latias:
-Removed the Dual Screen set
-Removed Substitute + Calm Mind set, and replaced it with Substitute + Roar (Sub / Roar / Dragon Pulse / Recover)

Lucario:
-Removed the Reversal set

Machamp:
-Removed the Choice Scarf set

Magnezone:
-No changes!

Metagross:
-Rearranged sets to: Lead -> Agiligross -> Trapper (needs to be uploaded) -> Choice Band -> Mixed Attacker
-Trick Metagross combined with Lead, adding a paragraph in AC for Trick and max Spe
-Trick Slashed on Choice Band set with Pursuit also mentioned in AC
-Slashed Lum Berry on Lead set with Occa Berry, and mentioned Shuca in AC as an option if you use Lead Gross as a non-lead
-Took 12 EVs out of Def and 4 out of HP to put in Speed, allowing Lead Metagross to outpace standard Lead Empoleon
-Agiligross updated (can be found here)
-Removed Rest Talk set
-Removed Dual Screens set (put in Other Options)
-Removed Tank set

Salamence:
-Took down Fat Mence***
-Slashed Leftovers and Dragon Claw on DD set***
-Classic MixMence changed to Naive as main option, with 252 Spe***
-Naive slashed as main option for Mix DD***
-Scarf set changed to Naive with 252 Spe***

Smeargle:
-Changed slashed moves on Anti-Lead set to: Trick, Spore, Spikes / Stealth Rock, U-Turn / Encore, with Destiny Bond, Lunar Dance, and Endeavor in AC***
-Combine Ubers and OU Belly Drum passing sets (exactly the same moves and EVs) to just explain viability in Ubers (Talk to Theorymon)***

Starmie:
-Renamed "Non-Choice" to "Life Orb" and replace Expert Belt with Life Orb on the set
-Added Rapid Spin as a slash on Life Orb set, and mentioned Grass Knot in AC, as well as removed Psychic
-Rearranged the sets so the previously stated Life Orb set is at the top
-Make Hydro Pump the primary option over Surf on Scarf and Specs sets and remove Psychic on both as well
-Need to discuss improving Reflect set

Togekiss:
-Need to test Choice Specs set***

Tyranitar:
-Removed Specs set
-Removed DD Mix TTar, but slashed Ice Beam onto the standard DD set - Edit, Aqua Tail is a better option anyways
-Removed DD Counter TTar

UU:

Absol:
-Changed Jolly -> Adamant as the main choice on the SD set
-Took the Mix set down, as SuperPower eliminates the need for Fire Blast
-Removed Anti-Lead set - Whistle thinks a different lead set is still viable. Perhaps Taunt, Night Slash, Sucker Punch, SuperPower?

Aggron:
-Slashed Toxic in with Ice Punch on the CB set

Alakazam:
-Put GK on all offensive sets, for hitting Milotic and Spiritomb hard
-Put Choice Specs at the top of the list
-Took Sub + CM down
-Probably should have a Calm Mind set up, because this one doesn't cut it - Assigned to franky

Altaria:
-No changes!

Ambipom:
-Removed Nasty Plot Baton Pass set***
-Separated Sweeper and Lead sets, with Lead set having Fake Out, U-turn, Taunt, Return @ Silk Scarf / Leftovers, and Sweeper having Fake Out, Return, Payback / Pursuit, Low Kick / U-turn @ Life Orb / Silk Scarf***

Arcanine:
-Added a mention on how Morning Glory set can counter Grass-type Pokemon in comments***
-Removed Howl set***
-Moved Choice Specs to OO***

Azumarill:
-Removed Belly Drum set***
-Slashed Toxic and Ice Punch with Aqua Jet and Waterfall respectively on the SubPunch set***

Blastoise:
-Removed every set bar Utility and Choice Specs***
-Changed Choice Specs to the following: Water Spout / Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, HP Grass, Surf / Rapid Spin, Timid, 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe***

Blaziken:
-Rearranged sets so Physical Choice is at the top***
-Moved Special Choice to OO***
-Removed Reversal set***
-Got Swords Dance set being written by j. franky on-site.***

Chansey:
-Slashed SR with status moves instead of Aromatherapy
-Took off Sing

Claydol:
-Took down the Rest Talk set
-Add a Trick Scarf (Lead) set - Assigned to Xia
-Changed EV's, Item, and Moves on the CM set

Clefable:
-Moved Belly Drum to the bottom of the list***
-Combined Toxic + Encore set with Toxic Stall set and took off Cosmic Power***
-Added Calm Mind set which looks like this: Calm Mind, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Softboiled, Bold, 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 SpA @ Leftovers***

Cloyster:
-Removed Rest Talk set
-Removed Choice Band set
-Make the other two sets LO Attacker and Defensive Utility
-Looks like Heysup already implemented these in his revamp, so get that up ASAP!

Drapion:
-Merged CB with Trapper, with LO/CB slashed, and Sniper/Battle Armor slashed and correlating Night Slash/Crunch
-Needs Bulky SD set

Drifblim:
-Changed Aftermath ability on BP set to Unburden
-Deleted second BP set
-Lead set is useless in this new metagame. Took down.
-Deleted Specs set
-Deleted Double Status set
-Merged Calm Mind Rest with Sweeper set, as the former is superior. Just slashed Hypnosis with Rest

Dugtrio:
-Separated Choice Band and Life Orb so they have their own sets with Life Orb having Substitute, Sucker Punch, Earthquake, Stone Edge, and mentioning Beat Up in AC***
-Put Beat Up on Choice Band and Choice Scarf sets***

Feraligatr:
-Removed Choice Band set***
-Added Aqua Jet to Swords Dance set***

Hariyama:
-Removed Special Tank set***
-Slotted Payback over Knock Off on Physical Tank set***
-Removed Fire Punch on Choice Band set***
-Combined Physical Tank and Rest Talk sets***
-Removed Bulk Up set***
-Removed Earthquake from Sub Punch set***

Hitmonlee:
-Changed Speed on Choice sets to max***
-Combined Choice Band, Choice Scarf, and Life Orb sets with a slash for each item***
-Mention in AC that Mach Punch should only be used on CB and LO sets***
-Removed Sub Reversal set***

Hitmontop:
-EVs for the Spinner set changed to 252 HP / 252 Def***
-Alternate spread for Spinner: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD for better spinning against Rotom and Mismagius***
-Added Earthquake in AC for Toxicroak***
-Moved Choice Band set to OO***

Houndoom:
-Separated Life Orb Nasty Plot into the following two sets:***
-Life Orb Nasty Plot: Nasty Plot, Fire Blast, Dark Pulse, Sucker Punch, Hasty, 100 Atk / 224 Spe / 184 SpA, @ Life Orb***
-Specialized Nasty Plot: Nasty Plot, Fire Blast, Dark Pulse, Taunt / Beat Up, Timid, 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA, @ Leftovers / Passho Berry***
-Removed Specs set***
-Removed Lead set***
-Changed Mixed set to: Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Fire Blast, Dark Pulse with EVs similar to LO Nasty Plot set above (but maybe w/ more Atk EVs)***

Kabutops:
-Removed Mixed set***
-Removed Flail set***
-Removed Return on Swords Dance set but mentioned it in OC***

Leafeon:
-Slashed Synthesis with Roar on the BP set
-Slashed Roar with Yawn on the Wish set

Milotic:
-Slashed Haze over Ice Beam and Toxic***
-Slashed Toxic with Ice Beam and HP Grass on Rest Talk set***

Mismagius:
-Added extra paragraphs on Bulky sets which explain alternative EV spreads for extra speed and more defensive***
-Changed Calm Mind + 3 Attacks to Nasty Plot + 3 Attacks***
-Took Life Orb off Nasty Plot set***
-Mentioned Taunt on the Sub Calm Mind set***

Omastar:
-Slashed SR with Toxic Spikes instead of Spikes
-Took down Specs set and added it to OO of LO
-Team Options and Counters need to be updated - OU mon's listed... wtf? - Assigned to franky

Steelix:
-Moved Choice Band set to OO***

Tangrowth:
-Analysis needs to be rewritten - currently focuses on OU***
-Removed Choice Specs set***
-Removed Knock it Off, Mojonbo Rules Here set***
-Added new main set called "Standard": Leaf Storm / Power Whip, HP Ice, Synthesis, Sleep Powder / Stun Spore / Leech Seed, Bold / Impish, 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD, @ Leftovers***

Torterra:
-Moved Swords Dance set to OO***
-Re-added the Lead set now that Froslass is gone***

Venusaur:
-Took LO Special down
-Put Leaf Storm as an option on all sets with GK
-Slashed EQ with Sleep Powder on the Support set for Raikou
-Changed name of Mixed Scarf to Choice Scarf
-Still need to fix some EV spreads***



Pokemon Assignments:

Philip7086:
Round 1: Dragonite, Dusknoir, Electivire, Pokemon of choice (Heatran)
Round 2: Breloom, Bronzong, Celebi, Pokemon of Choice (Salamence)
Round 3: Snorlax, Suicune, Swampert, Pokemon of Choice (Raikou and Shaymin)

Plus:
Round 2: Aerodactyl, Azelf, Blissey, Pokemon of Choice (Metagross)
Round 3: Mamoswine, Ninjask, Staraptor, Pokemon of Choice (Porygon-Z)

remlabmez:
Round 1: Empoleon, Flygon, Forretress, Pokemon of choice (Magnezone)
Round 2: Heracross, Hippowdon, Infernape, Pokemon of Choice (Smeargle)
Round 3: Weavile, Zapdos ,Abomasnow, Pokemon of Choice (Froslass)

Setsuna.:
Round 3: Tentacruel, Umbreon, Vaporeon, Pokemon of Choice (Cresselia)

Seven Deadly Sins:
Round 1: Gengar, Gliscor, Gyarados, Pokemon of choice (Tyranitar)
Round 2: Jirachi, Jolteon, Kingdra, Pokemon of Choice (Starmie)
Round 3: Rotom-A, Scizor, Honchkrow, Pokemon of Choice (Crobat)

SilentEcho:
Round 2: Latias, Lucario, Machamp, Pokemon of Choice (Togekiss)
Round 3: Roserade, Skarmory, Yanmega, Pokemon of Choice (Gallade)

Eo Ut Mortus:
Round 1: Absol, Aggron, Alakazam, Pokemon of choice (Venusaur)
Round 2: Altaria, Arcanine, Hitmontop, Pokemon of Choice (Steelix)
Round 3: Miltank, Moltres, Nidoking, Pokemon of Choice (Spiritomb)

FlareBlitz:
Round 3: Lanturn, Ludicolo, Mesprit, Pokemon of Choice (Weezing)

Heysup:
Round 2: Azumarill, Blastoise, Blaziken, Pokemon of Choice (Torterra)
Round 3: Scyther, Slowking, Regirock, Pokemon of Choice (Swellow)

Synre:
Round 2: Clefable, Dugtrio, Feraligatr, Pokemon of Choice (Ludicolo)

Twist of Fate:
Round 1: Donphan, Chansey, Drifflim, Pokemon of choice (Omastar)
Round 2: Milotic, Hariyama, Hitmonlee, Pokemon of Choice (Tangrowth)
Round 3: Rhyperior, Rotom, Sceptile, Pokemon of Choice (Uxie)

whistle:
Round 1: Drapion, Claydol, Cloyster, Pokemon of choice (Leafeon)
Round 2: Ambipom, Houndoom, Kabutops, Pokemon of Choice (Mismagius)
Round 3: Poliwrath, Slowbro, Registeel, Pokemon of Choice (Toxicroak)

Bojangles:
Round 2: Darkrai, Deoxys, Deoxys-A, Pokemo of Choice

Jibaku:
Round 2: Deoxys-D, Deoxys-S, Dialga, Pokemon of Choice

Theorymon:
Round 2: Garchomp, Giratina, Giratina-O, Pokemon of Choice

 

[jumpluff]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/kingdra
The Three Attack DDer has Adamant and 24 SpA EVs =/

 

[Philip7086]

Great catch Shiki. If anybody finds something that they think is questionable, feel free to post in this topic, and we will review to see if that is actually a mistake and should be fixed, or not.

 

[MetaNite]

Since there is a whole project for this, you should have your team actually test the sets before waving them away. I am imagining a king being passed along food and snapping his finger if he wants it to be thrown away, to be brought a new one. The king should be brought to the people's land, see how little food they have, and then decide if its a good idea to throw it away

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/kingdra
The Three Attack DDer has Adamant and 24 SpA EVs =/

This is because Kingdra does not need a Naughty or Lonely nature to 2HKO Skarmory with Hydro Pump. Why drop a defense stat for an attack you are only going to be using a few Pokemon?

 

[whistle]

24 Adamant Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252/252 Impish Leftovers Skarmory : 43.4% - 51.5%
24 Naughty Life Orb Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252/252 Impish Leftovers Skarmory : 48.5% - 57.5%

not to mention some people run careful

| Skarmory | Item | Leftovers | 48.1 |

minute differences like the damage output of adamant vs naughty/lonely are almost indiscernable when playtesting -- is my 49% damage done to skarmory a high roll which means I won't 2HKO normally or is it a low roll which means I usually 2HKO? generally, testing should obviously be combined with theorymon based on metagame knowledge but in this specific instance I don't see the point.

I expect every member of the team to keep an open mind when it comes to evaluating sets.

edit: not taking into account the viability of the set itself atm just MN's post

 

[jumpluff]

okay, i pointed this out and was asked to post it in order for someone to assist

 

[Diesel]

Glad this is went through. :)

 

[Philip7086]

Since there is a whole project for this, you should have your team actually test the sets before waving them away. I am imagining a king being passed along food and snapping his finger if he wants it to be thrown away, to be brought a new one. The king should be brought to the people's land, see how little food they have, and then decide if its a good idea to throw it away

To complete the former, I will be assembling a team of battlers who I believe to be the cream of the crop in their respective tier. This team will be assigned Pokemon analyses on-site, which they will meticulously go through in order to pick out questionable sets. This includes anything from a set being outdated, having poor move choices, having a suboptimal EV spread, or even just lacking some vital information. These sets will be discussed by the rest of the team members, and even play-tested in the current metagame to see if they are actually good or not. If not, the sets will be updated or removed from the site completely.

 

[frogbandit]

I think this is a good idea. I have thought some sets were a little outdated, with all the changes that have been going on, especially suspect testing and HGSS and whatnot. For example, fairly recent UU-mons like Raikou, Alakazam, Porygon-Z, and Cresselia still have their OU sets on the analysis page. I don't know how long this will take, but I'd like to see it get done.

Might find some other stuff on the analyses :P

 

[eric the espeon]

may as well post this for transparency, not everyone is on #C&C all the time.

my talk with philip

After a convo about a set that had silly EV spread on site (it had HP EVs specifically so it would heal more with leftovers, but had only LO and a status orb as listed items so hurt itself more >_>) and some very odd comments:

cleaned up slightly for readability

[19:21] <ete> more people should check sets as/after they are uploaded
[19:21] <ete> imo
[19:22] <ete> once they are on SCMS it's so much easier to make those little changes, and focusing on bringing a trickle of analyses up to very high standard is mentally easier than trying to tackle 3 pages of analyses that need uploading.
[19:23] <Philip7086> imo, it should be part of the process to get approval from the QC guys before uploading a set
[19:23] <ete> hmm
[19:23] <ete> not convinced by that
[19:23] <ete> writers should contact you guys before writing up a set
[19:23] <Philip7086> yeah i'd like that more
[19:23] <ete> the mods really don't need another layer of stuff to go through pre-upload
[19:23] <Philip7086> how can we get that to happen?
[19:24] <ete> easy
[19:24] <Philip7086> right
[19:24] <ete> throw up a sticky in an obvious place, get the QCers to say they are QC in their sigs
[19:25] <ete> and that they are available for advise on whether sets are wanted by smogon
[19:25] <Philip7086> that's a great idea, btw
[19:25] <ete> Not that the writers MUST contact you, but that it is a good idea for them to do so if they don't want to waste their time
[19:25] <Philip7086> i really like that
[19:26] <Philip7086> having people get permission to actually post the sets
[19:26] <ete> not permission
[19:26] <Philip7086> that would help out the process a whole helluva lot
[19:26] <ete> I'm not sure that's the best way to go
[19:26] <Philip7086> if we say "it's a good idea to" nobody will do it i think
[19:26] <ete> I disagree for one very good reason
[19:26] <ete> writers want their sets up
[19:26] <Philip7086> k
[19:27] <ete> and if you offer to give them the "QC stamp of approval"
[19:27] <ete> before they post
[19:27] <ete> that's a very good start
[19:27] <Philip7086> hmm, okay
[19:28] <ete> Forcing people to go through you gives another annoying thing to enforce (and no matter how good your team they will not be right 100% of the time), setting it up so they want to come to you is the best way for everyone.
[19:28] <ete> and helps with the concerns of BK and others
[19:28] <ete> about this just turning into another layer of red tape
[19:29] <Philip7086> yeah i changed the op of my post to accommodate concerns of bk and others already
[19:29] <ete> right
[19:29] <Philip7086> namely, making a point that people need to be doing quality control when they make edits already
[19:29] <ete> yea.
[19:29] <Philip7086> since that's part of C&C
[19:29] <ete> I do that for LC as part of my main job
[19:29] <Philip7086> yeah that's how it should be
[19:30] <ete> so does heysup quite a bit
[19:30] <Philip7086> so the QC team's main focus will be to go through sets that are already on site
[19:30] <Philip7086> but i like the idea of getting our stamp of approval

 

[jumpluff]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/infernape
The Choice Specs set seems a little OO and outclassed by other sets imo. It is part of the < 8% of non-Sash/Orb Infernape in January 2010, and I guarantee you most of those are Choice Scarf and Expert Belt. It's basically a worse MixApe from what I'm seeing. A set that is not used and seems ineffective should be removed from an analysis, so the QC team should check up o nthis imo ^_^;

 

[Philip7086]

lol, good find again Shiki. When a set literally says:

"Although this set has raw power and coverage in abundance, Infernape's frailty and typing don't afford it enough opportunities to switch in and, as a result, the Choice Specs will often become a hindrance, so think long and hard about whether this set will bring you anything that the standard Specially Based MixApe won't already do."

then why do we have it on-site? -__-. Regardless, I'll test this and ask the rest of the OU team what they think.

 

[remlabmez]

First set im testing is Flygon - Toxic Stall. Though I am pretty sure its gonna be underwhelming I will edit this post after tests with it.

 

[mtr]

I actually wondered why the Toxic Stall set was there to begin with, since when I've tried it out I always had trouble with it.

On another note, you guys have probably already considered this, but the team should also look at sets that are very similar to one another and ask writers to merge them. Just a proposal.

 

[ToF]

Because whistle is a very unmotivated user and refuses to share his Drapion analysis with me, and because I am such a kind soul, I have decided to trade Drapion for Chansey.

 

[whistle]

<ToF> cmt chansey!!! i <333 her :D
<ToF> shutup nig
<whistle> drapion meybe
<ToF> shutup nig
<ToF> drapion in luxury ball ??
<whistle> k now post trade log in thread otherwise i blacklist you ty
<ToF> shutup nig
<ToF> ill do it when i want

twist of fate said he was trading me drapion in luxury ball but it came in a voltorb how can i report htem







yeah we switched pokemon because he uses chansey on every team and i'm writing the drapion analysis
don't infract me plz phil

 

[Philip7086]

Questionable sets I will be testing this round:

Substitute + Liechi Electivire
-I don't think any Sub + *boosting berry* set is very viable in today's metagame on a Pokemon who loses over 25% to Bullet Punch / Extremespeed, but I'll test to make sure.

Choice Band Dragonite
-Needs Extremespeed on the set, IMO.

Choice Specs Dragonite
-Not sure this set is very good. I'll test it out.

Burn Support Heatran
-This set seems kinda all over the place, but I think it's still solid. However, I'll test it just because it looks interesting :3

Taunt Heatran
-I don't see this set being too effective in today's metagame. Will test.

Other notes:
-Dusknoir's sets look fine.
-Want to rearrange Heatran's sets. Torment shouldn't be higher than LO, etc.

Update Edit:

Tested Liechi Electevire, Specs Dragonite, and Burn Support Heatran. Liechi Electevire is, as I expected, very bad in today's metagame. Rotom, Swampert, and the plethora of priority attacks just makes it not effective at all. Specs Dragonite has also been performing rather poorly, as even if it can do some decent damage with Specs Draco Meteor, it just was dead weight on the team more often than not, and in every case, Life Orb would have been a far superior option. Burn Support Heatran seems to have doing okay, but I would like to replace overheat with Fire Blast, because there are a lot of Pokemon with Substitute that can render Overheat useless, and having a consistent attack would be better.

I will discuss these things with the other OU QC guys before making any final decisions, though. Still have to test Taunt Heatran...

Another Edit:

MN wants us to go over offensive DD Nite, so this is just a reminder to do so!

 

[whistle]

testing
Drapion -- Choice Band
Claydol -- Calm Mind, Sleep Talk
Cloyster -- Sleep Talk, Choice Band
Leafeon -- SubSalac (low priority to test though)

changes
Claydol -- seems like a TrickScarf lead would be a good addition

edit: forgot finals are here to bone me so I'll aim to get this mostly done if not done by Sunday 3/21 instead, sorry.

--

Drapion

Choice Band set is decent but I think it should be combined with the Pursuit Trapper set with Life Orb / Choice Band slashed in because they are somewhat similar.
There should also be a bulky Swords Dance set in addition to the all-out offensive set.
I have the Drapion analysis reserved so I won't have to bug someone else to do the work.

Summary: combine Pursuit Trapper and Choice Band set, add bulky Swords Dance set.

Claydol

Calm Mind set is surprisingly not bad with a spread of 160 HP / 240 SpA / 108 Spe (Modest)@ Chesto Berry with a moveset of Calm Mind / Earth Power / Psychic / Rest. it's definitely a surprisingly offensive spread but I've tried tons of different EV combinations and this one works the best. Claydol has great resistances but also several somewhat common weaknesses which means it can't just sit there and Calm Mind up all day against most teams. an extra defensive investment only means it doesn't do much of anything before dying while maxing Special Attack gives it quite a kick and it's still reasonably bulky so it still sets up on the same great resistances (example: this spread has a high chance of KOing Rhyperior with 100+ HP EVs with a +1 Earth Power, while a slightly bulkier spread doesn't do that and instead takes fatal or near fatal damage from Megahorn). 160 HP gives it a stat of 301 which means it doesn't die to Seismic Toss. 108 Speed hits a stat of 213 which outpaces Milotic aiming to beat Torterra, although I'm not sure how common that particular spread is anymore so this can probably be decreased a little bit. Earth Power and Psychic give pretty good neutral coverage in UU and in terms of common Pokemon is only resisted by opposing levitating Psychics which generally can't really do anything to Claydol. Chesto Berry is quite good vs offensive teams because you just can't afford to stay sleeping.
I've seen a Trick lead set used quite effectively on the ladder so that would be a nice addition to the analysis.
the RestTalk set is not very appealing especially since it loses out on Rapid Spin AND Stealth Rock which are the main niche moves for a defensive Claydol set. in a sense this set suffers from the same problems as the defensive Calm Mind set; it tries to stay alive for too long in a metagame that has developed past it and by doing so it sacrifices the ability to do anything useful and instead just sits there like a punching bag.

Summary: keep Calm Mind w/ new moves + EVs + item, add Trick set, remove RestTalk.

Cloyster

I think Heysup was going to revamp this and he had generally the same ideas as me in terms of what the new analysis should look like pre-testing and my opinions haven't really changed now. it's a great defensive Spiker and Rapid Spinner as well as a pretty sweet offensive Spikes lead, and doesn't really do much else besides that.
RestTalk is pretty bad basically cause it doesn't do enough. Obviously you need Spikes or its a super shitty Milotic, but then you also need an attack, which means you don't get Spin and an additional auxiliary move. the standard defensive set performs quite well because it shouldn't die too early unless you're trying to use it to tank Stone Edge or something; RestTalk keeps it alive, yeah, but it can't really do anything with that extra HP.
Choice Band is kind of atrocious and doesn't do anything the LO set doesn't do as well or better. wtf seriously.

Summary: chop RestTalk and Choice Band, revamp the remaining sets into offensive LO and defensive Spiker/Spinner

Leafeon

Baton Pass set should probably just max HP then put the remainder in Attack instead of whatever is going on right now. GrassWhistle isn't reliable enough to be slashed; Synthesis / Roar is a better combination. Life Orb Sweeper is fine.
SubSalac sweeper is pretty damn great actually lol don't chop it under any circumstances.

Summary: Synthesis / Roar on the Baton Pass set; Yawn / Roar on the Wish set.

 

[ToF]

Ok, after some very close sherlock holmes inspection, I have made these observations:

1. The Donphan set is concise and clear, probably because it was edited recently. A lot of threats that are still in the metagame are mentioned and overall its a good write-up

2. Chansey is also pretty straightforward. I've tried to use a CM set in the past actually, and it just is epic fail because almost anything that ever switches into Chansey immediately threatens it even at +1. Only suggestion I'll make is on the Utility set to slot Stealth Rock with the statuses (Twave, Sing, Toxic, etc) because the whole point of that Utility set is the use of Aromatherapy. Often if Chansey uses Aromatherapy, it will also use Stealth Rock for PP stalling purposes and forego a status option. The other options section could also be edited to actually include Pokemon that are good partners rather than just 'spikers' for example (Froslass makes a good partner because it can take Fighting attacks while also setting up Spikes, might want to add a few lines like this).

3. On Omastar's Utility set, Stealth Rock should be slashed with Toxic Spikes and HP Rock. Spikes are a necessity on all Omastar sets, whereas SR isn't (since so many things in uu can set up SR easier because of their typing). I'd say this is the way it should look:

- Surf
- Spikes
- Ice Beam / HP Rock
- Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes / Protect / Rest

Knock off is never used on Omastar, and Spikes are the real reason its used, not SR. HP Rock should be slashed to hit Froslass leads hard (the more defensive ones) as well as the random subroost Articuno.

I'd get rid of the choice specs set, its basically identical to the life orb set, just mention it in other options (though IMO its inferior anyway).

I think the team options and counters section needs rewriting for omastar, because there's a lot of OU Pokemon mentioned in both sections. Omastar isn't used in OU, so there should be no mention of partnering well with Bronzong or Kingdra. Additionally, the counters section is outdated, mentioning Roserade and Breloom. Needs to be corrected to accurately reflect the UU metagame, not this mixed bag.

4. ok now drifblim lol. looking at it the first two sets are basically redundant, baton pass 1 and 2. I believe the version 1 ev spread is better, considering I've never seen drifblim sweep ever without rest. I'd just use the first one since the main goal of the set is to set up a sub, calm mind possibly, and pass.

Calm Mind Rest should be a separate set without Baton pass mentioned as an option. The point is to act like a cro-mon without sleep talk, remove baton pass from its moveset for sure.

The lead set, i've never tried, but it looks outdated for sure. Moltres, Froslass, Electrode all hit it hard, and basically it has to explode to do anything since the accuracy of hypnosis dropped. Someone can test this out, but i'd say its worthless.

Double status set needs to be removed. Hypnosis isn't worth it anymore, and things like Arcanine can double status much more effectively. Besides, Drifblim has like no defenses at all, it sounds tough to incorporate that set as a sort of spin blocker since i'd almost always use spiritomb instead

Personally, I think the sweeper set is outclassed by the CM Resttalk one, but someone can test it. I think its a lot easier to just combine the two sets and slash Hypnosis with Rest to make the analysis look cleaner.

Choice Specs, no. Hell no. Drifblim doesn't even get trick, its completely useless and has hard counters. Why wouldn't you use Rotom or Alakazam instead?

So basically, in summary:
Get rid of Baton Pass V2
Get rid of Choice Specs
Combine Sweeper and Rest set to slash Hypnosis with Rest
Get rid of Double Status
Test the lead set if someone's up for it.

 

[Fuzznip]

Hi QC.

I need some help testing some sets for Vaporeon, as well as finding better EV spreads. The sets that need testing are Baton Pass and Fake Tears. Baton Pass is probably worth keeping, it's a pretty good Baton Passer, but I'm a bit skeptical with Fake Tears.

I also need help finding a better EV spread for Vaporeon's Wish set. Currently, it's 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe @ Bold. I don't think the 68 Speed is actually worth it anymore. Skarmory usually runs much more Speed nowadays. I am thinking of giving Vaporeon a more balanced defensive spread, with some Special Defense investment, but I am unsure.

So, can you guys help me out here?

 

[Setsuna]

Hi QC.

I need some help testing some sets for Vaporeon, as well as finding better EV spreads. The sets that need testing are Baton Pass and Fake Tears. Baton Pass is probably worth keeping, it's a pretty good Baton Passer, but I'm a bit skeptical with Fake Tears.

I also need help finding a better EV spread for Vaporeon's Wish set. Currently, it's 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe @ Bold. I don't think the 68 Speed is actually worth it anymore. Skarmory usually runs much more Speed nowadays. I am thinking of giving Vaporeon a more balanced defensive spread, with some Special Defense investment, but I am unsure.

So, can you guys help me out here?

Since we are working together on Vaporeon's sets right now, I can be the help that you need to polish off any of its sets and general characteristics of each one. So I expect us to end up having a very complete work after finished it.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Absol:

• Swords Dance Set: Adamant should be primary option over Jolly.
• Choice Band: Good
• Choice Scarf: Good
• Mixed Set: Seems rather unviable. Not only is Fire Blast needed for only one Pokemon, Steelix, Absol gets the job done much more easily through SuperPower. Remove this.
• Anti-Lead: Works rather inconsistently. Outright loses to certain leads, and relies on perfect prediction to beat other leads (i.e. Taunt Uxie's Thunder Wave, or Counter its U-Turn; Taunt Froslass's Destiny Bond, or Pursuit its switch). I'm leaning towards removing this.

Aggron:

• Choice Band Set: Should be the very first set. I would slash Toxic with Ice Punch. Ice Punch is very situational (Torterra), and while Toxic is as well, it at least hits Hitmontop and Quagsire.
• Rock Polish: Still viable, though not as effective as Choice Band.
• SubPunch: Good.

Alakazam: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65087

• Grass Knot should be given a bit more mention on all the sets as it hits Milotic and Spiritomb.
• Choice Specs: Should be the first set in my opinion.
• Sub + 3 Attacks: Good
• Sub + Calm Mind: I found this set rather underwhelming; Alakazam has a rather hard time setting up thanks to its piss-poor defense. Still, it had its merits (mainly against stall teams).
• Sub + Encore: Good.
• Aggressive Lead: To be tested.
• Dual Screen Lead: To be tested, although I've seen its success already.

Pokemon of choice (Venusaur)

• I'm pretty biased towards Leaf Storm; I think it should be slashed with any set that has a Grass attack. Power Whip's accuracy seems to always let me down at the wrong times; also, it doesn't really seem to hit much but Raikou and Mismagius. The former I've handled through Earthquake over Sleep Powder, but I'm admittedly pretty biased against using Sleep Powder, too. Regardless, I think Leaf Storm should at the very least be mentioned, if not slashed with Power Whip.
• Life Orb Physical: I have had little success with this set, mostly, I think, due to recent changes in the metagame (popularity of Arcanine and Venusaur increasing). This set should probably be bumped down a little. Synthesis > Swords Dance doesn't fare much better.
• Support: Slash Earthquake with Sleep Powder (mainly for Raikou). Explanation given above.
• Life Orb Special: Haven't had much success with this set, either. HP Ground still doesn't do that much to Registeel, and lets it get up a free Stealth Rock/Thunder Wave.
• Mixed Choice Scarf: Good, but I have to check the EV spread. I also want to rename this Choice Scarf because the name implies that there's another Choice Scarf set, and there isn't.
• Choice Specs: To be tested.
• Mixed Attacker: To be tested.
• SubSeeder: To be tested.

Will post more later.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Gengar:

• Standard Set: Should be replaced with one of the below sets, probably Special Substitute. Using a Gengar without Substitute or Protect is somewhere around suicide, and LO + 4 attacks isn't especially viable in the current metagame, especially with the explosion of Scarftar.

Gliscor:

• Stallbreaker Set: Toxic should be slashed over U-turn, instead of U-turn being the main set. Having used both variants of this set, Toxic is indispensable to cripple and stall out taunted Pokemon, especially Rotom-A.

Gyarados:

• SubBounce Set: Not sure why this set would get a mention, as it seems rather gimmicky. It sacrifices one of Gyarados' most useful assets, its natural bulk, and limits itself to using the 2-turn Bounce as its only coverage move. Leaning towards remove, but possibly test.

Pokemon of choice (Tyranitar)

• Choice Specs Set (UPDATED): Having tested this set on a team pretty much built for this set, I have to say that it's pretty meh. A mixed set using either Expert Belt or Life Orb does the same job, but sucks a lot less. Easily the weak part of a very solid team built AROUND it. Remove.
• MixTar set: Focuses on Tyranitar's lower offensive stat, acts as a bulky special attacker that can beat Blissey. Seems outclassed by the BaitTar that is listed, seeing as how both are simply Expert Belt baiters, and at least BaitTar acts on the higher stat. Still have yet to test it.
• Removing two sets flat out: Mixed DD and Counter DD. Talked with Phil, pure gimmicks plain and simple.

 

[remlabmez]

In this round of QC testing I made a team that consisted of both my test subjects: life Orb Magnezone and toxic stall Flygon. I used the EV spreads provided on the analysis page though I feel as the life orb magnezone one is a little outdated but I stuck with it. At glance toxic stall flygon looks like a huge gimmick that doesn’t work but this was not the case at all. Flygon always attracts common steels such as skamory, forretress, but is able to handle them thanks to not being locked on a choice move; with the freedom of using its base 80 SpA to fire blast / flamethrower steels. Flygon is also always able to come in many times throughout battles because of its immunity to spikes and resisting stealth rock, which can make things very annoying for the opponent. Though timid is a strange nature to use with something using a physical move such as earthquake, it didn’t hinder the ability of Flygon, because the things it hits with EQ such as Heatran, Infernape, Tyranitar don’t like taking Flygon’s stab EQ regardless of having a reducing attack nature. Toxic stall Flygon does what it’s supposed to, which is annoy the opponent and having good resistances and I feel that it’s worthy of staying on the analysis page.
Life orb Magnezone at glance looks like it has potential and uses which it does, when testing Magnezone it provided support needed with the team and along with its test subject partner Flygon. Magnezone in my opinion should always be paired with a pokemon that attracts popular steels such as scizor, or its synergy with the team isnt needed as much, this being said it provided excellent coverage. Life orb magnezone has the ability to switch into bulky waters and scare them away quite easily, also with Magnezone not being locked into an attack like the scarf version, it can explode and OHKO on Blisseys. HP grass provides good coverage along side with Thunderbolt and Flash Cannon. The only downside to the life orb set over scarf or sub is that magnezone is limited to things it can come in on, with only having 60 base speed and only 84 speed (using the analysis set) Magnezone is easily disposed of in OU. I would keep this analysis but I would work on fixing the EVs as I feel they are outdated. This magnezone works as a support pokemon and not a dedicated sweeper like other various LO sweeping pokemon in OU.


TLDR Version:


Flygon - toxic stall is fine, I am happy with the way the EVs and movesets provided on the analysis.


LO Magnezone - It's viable enough to work and is worthy of staying, but I feel the EVs need major tweaking

 

[whistle]

round 2 pre testing notes

Hitmontop (Eo is now doing this)
- for rapid spin set... ctrl-f "impish" and "careful" both return no results... bleh
- test choice band

Ambipom (used to be Eo's)
- lead set looks like it has a case of identity crisis with the life orb set; probably will try to make them more distinct
- test nasty plot with pass set... eh...

Houndoom
- test out various 4th move and item combinations for the NP set
- test specs a bit more (it was pretty bad when I tested it a month or two ago)
- lead maybe could use a different 4th move (instead of counter; not sure how useful that would be now)
- test mixed set for better move combination

Kabutops
- return on sd kabutops... huh
- test mixed it seems kinda gimmick

Mismagius
- looks all good except the bulky set could maybe use a mention of alternate ev spreads
- minor revamps / alternatives to the np and cm sets but I won't go through them all here