PU Role Compendium

[MZ]

More minor nitpicks n_n
Add Frogadier and Jumpluff to U-turn. Maybe articuno too, I've never tried scarfcuno tho

 

[Dundies]

although scarf/specs glaceon isnt really common at all, it does usually run baton pass for momentum so i would add that

 

[IRock28]

I feel as if Rampardos should be in the choice scarf category due to the fact that he already has a base of 366. and when you give it max evs it can turn into 471 so giving it a choice band would be ok but it would lack in speed. If it had more speed it could get rid of threats easier and you wouldn't have to worry about threats to rampardos like most water,grass, and ground type pokemon.

 

[Grim]

There are worse things than Choice Scarf Rampardos, but it's far from its optimal set. Even with a Scarf it loses to the really fast Pokemon such as Sneasel, Zebstrika, and Purugly, as well as more or less all Speed-boosting sweepers (Fraxure, Barbaracle, Carracosta because of Aqua Jet, Golduck, Victreebel, etc). Choice Band is honestly not great either. Rampardos's best sets are Life Orb + Sheer Force wallbreaker and suicide lead.

 

[MZ]

Drifblim, Grumpig and Dusclops can go to CM

 

[Ranbu No Melody]

Maybe we could add Sligoo to fire check.

 

[2xTheTap]

Add the sub-category Phazers to the list IMO. Very helpful when adding utility to a team or building around Spikes. Under this listing could be pokemon like Throh (Circle Throw), Poliwrath (Circle Throw), Avalugg (Roar), Lickilicky (Dragon Tail), Hippopotas (Whirlwind), etc.

Perhaps also add the Trick Room category

- Throh to Wallbreaker with its Taunt/Toxic set
- Beheeyem, Duosion to Wall Breaker
- Clefairy to Healing Wish
- Togetic out from Wish (base HP too low, could never recommend this as a Wish Passer)
- Togetic to Dark Check
- Wigglytuff to Wish user (though Wigglytuff has strong competition in Lickilicky, its Wish passes are huge - base 140 HP Wishes)
- Chatot to Specs and Scarf now that Chatter is banned (U-Turn / Heat Wave / Boomburst / HP Ground or Fighting works with specs/scarf)
- Raichu to Scarf
- Snover to Weather Setter
- Chatot, Monferno to U-turn
- Lunatone to Stealth Rock
- Roselia and Sawsbuck to Aromatherapy - Sawsbuck can even activate Sap Sipper with its own Aromatherapy (counts as using a grass attack against itself)
- Meowstic and Articuno to Heal Bell
- Carbink to Dual Screens
- Leavanny, Floatzel, Ninjask, Sawsbuck, Lunatone, Solrock to Baton Pass
- Golem, Rampardos and Probopass to Rock Polish

C Rank stuff that could be added (but not necessary imo)
- Hypno to Jewish Wish user
- Hypno to Jewish Baton Pass
- Glaceon to Wish, Heal Bell, Specs
- Lapras to Heal Bell
- Raticate to U-Turn

 

[gasquakee]

Dont forget Quilladin for roar phazing.

 

[Choice Banned]

Magnemite you have Klang listed under Dragon Dance by the way.

 

[Magnemite]

Add the sub-category Phazers to the list IMO. Very helpful when adding utility to a team or building around Spikes. Under this listing could be pokemon like Throh (Circle Throw), Poliwrath (Circle Throw), Avalugg (Roar), Lickilicky (Dragon Tail), Hippopotas (Whirlwind), etc.

Perhaps also add the Trick Room category

- Throh to Wallbreaker with its Taunt/Toxic set
- Beheeyem, Duosion to Wall Breaker
- Clefairy to Healing Wish
- Togetic out from Wish (base HP too low, could never recommend this as a Wish Passer)
- Togetic to Dark Check
- Wigglytuff to Wish user (though Wigglytuff has strong competition in Lickilicky, its Wish passes are huge - base 140 HP Wishes)
- Chatot to Specs and Scarf now that Chatter is banned (U-Turn / Heat Wave / Boomburst / HP Ground or Fighting works with specs/scarf)
- Raichu to Scarf
- Snover to Weather Setter
- Chatot, Monferno to U-turn
- Lunatone to Stealth Rock
- Roselia and Sawsbuck to Aromatherapy - Sawsbuck can even activate Sap Sipper with its own Aromatherapy (counts as using a grass attack against itself)
- Meowstic and Articuno to Heal Bell
- Carbink to Dual Screens
- Leavanny, Floatzel, Ninjask, Sawsbuck, Lunatone, Solrock to Baton Pass
- Golem, Rampardos and Probopass to Rock Polish

C Rank stuff that could be added (but not necessary imo)
- Hypno to Jewish Wish user
- Hypno to Jewish Baton Pass
- Glaceon to Wish, Heal Bell, Specs
- Lapras to Heal Bell
- Raticate to U-Turn

A phazers category isn't a bad idea; I'll implement that when I'm not terribly busy (hopefully soon !_!)

Anyway since I feel like I've been lazy with explaining why I haven't implemented certain changes (read: I haven't done this at all) and need a break from 6 hours of straight studying, I'll go through the nominations from this post that I didn't add and explain why I didn't add them (note that in general, I've been trying to cut down a bit on the less viable things that I had originally to keep things from being too cluttered, looking at you CM Girafarig)

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Clefairy to Healing Wish- Clefairy is only used on stall/balance and healing wish is mainly only used on offense, plus a bit of trouble fitting it into its set with Flamethrower, Stored Power, and SR being more appealing options in the last slot

Togetic to Dark check- weak to the secondary STAB of the two best Dark types in the tier, weak to the coverage move of the third

Wigglytuff to Wish- Wigglytuff is only in C+ rank because of its offensive set, defensive sets are pretty bad and outclassed

Chatot to Scarf- Chatter being banned doesn't automatically make choiced Chatot better, though Specs is a decent set (if I saw / heard about anyone ever using scarf chatot to a decent amount of success I would probably add it, but I literally haven't seen it once)

Snover to weather setter- isn't C+ or higher

Monferno to U-turn- Same with Scarf Chatot, I've never really seen or heard about offensive Monferno being used successfully and it doesn't really seem good on paper, though I'll add it if this changes

Lunatone to Stealth Rock- See Wigglytuff

Roselia and Sawsbuck to Aromatherapy- Roselia's 4MSS is way too awful to really find room for Aromatherapy, and Sawsbuck getting an attack boost from it is just a glitch in the simulator that shouldn't exist (though it is funny)

Meowstic and Articuno to Heal Bell- Meowstic can't fit it onto its one decent set and defensive Articuno isn't really common or good

Carbink to Dual Screens- I don't see why I would use this over Solrock, though I might be missing something

Leavanny, Ninjask, Lunatone, Solrock to Baton Pass- Non CB Ninjask and non Webs Leavanny aren't C+ rank worthy. I don't see what Solrock or Lunatone can pass that Togetic or Girafarig or Mr. Mime can't

Golem, Rampardos and Probopass to Rock Polish- Why would I use the former two over Carracosta or Barbaracle? Rock Polish Probopass is really uncommon and seems mediocre due to how weak Probopass is

All C rank Pokemon- I'm not including C rank Pokemon and below on this list for simplicity's sake (which I could have sworn I said somewhere in the OP, but I must have been thinking of the Speed Tiers thread. I'll edit that in at some point)

Apologies if I sound too nitpicky, but I have to draw the line with what I do and don't include somewhere, and it's easier to have that line be higher up than not, since it's a lot harder to specifically differenciate the viability of things that aren't very viable than it is with things that are more viable. I do appriciate all of your suggestions though!

 

[2xTheTap]

It's all good. While the thread is somewhat new, it's better to not be all inclusive of what people suggest. I appreciate you keeping up the quality of the thread! In any case, I have some more additions for you without including C rank mons. No need to explain why you didn't add the optional ones listed IMO

- Floatzel to priority (Aqua Jet)
- Raichu to priority (physical set with Extreme Speed)
- Drifblim to priority (Sucker Punch)
- Golem to priority (Sucker Punch)
- Gourgeist to priority (Shadow Sneak)
- Barbaracle to Choice Scarf
- Sawsbuck to Choice Scarf
- Servine to WallBreaker
- Luxray to WallBreaker
- Scrappy CB Stoutland to WallBreaker

Optional Adds
- Dusknoir to Normal Check, Fighting Check
- Monferno to Priority
- Aurorus to Choice Scarf
- Kingler to Choice Scarf
- Flareon to Choice Scarf
- Huntail to Weather Sweeper
- Relicanth to Weather Sweeper
- Leavanny to Fighting Check
- Bastiodon to Stealth Rock - I would use this over some of the options up there, like Metang / Wigglytuff / Gabite
- Flareon to Wish - if using Leafeon as a Wish user is okay, this might be too
- Monferno to Stallbreaker (Taunt)

 

[Froggyboy]

I would add Ariados to Toxic Spikes, Sticky Web, and Priority users(Sucker Punch). While it isn't really good, it still has a decent niche in having both Sticky Webs and Toxic Spikes, as well as Sucker Punch for one last hit before going down.

Chatot should be in Scarfers.

 

[gasquakee]

I still think Scarf Chatot even without Chatter is entirely mediocre.

 

[365pokemon]

I agree with servine to wallbreakers.

I would also remove carbink as a dark check. It is 4x weak to mightyena's iron tail and pawniard's iron head.

Add carracosta as a dark check. Physically defensive costa takes no more than 30% from any attack from sneasel, mightyena, or pawniard, and can threaten with scald.

 

[365pokemon]

Sneasel and Throh are banned now so they have to be removed.
Also, now that sneasel is banned there is even less reason to list carbink as a dark check

 

[Ares]

Sneasel and Throh are banned now so they have to be removed.
Also, now that sneasel is banned there is even less reason to list carbink as a dark check

arguably there is more reason since throh is banned

 

[365pokemon]

arguably there is more reason since throh is banned

I thought carbink was a check to throh, so throh being banned means there's one less thing carbink checks, which means there's less reason to list carbink. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't throh being banned also warrant carbink's removal as a dark check?

Just to make my original point clear I'm saying that since sneasel(which carbink checked) is gone, carbink checks fewer dark types. Second, with sneasel gone pawniard is the best dark type in the tier and carbink doesn't check pawniard. Also, mightyena will see more usage with sneasel gone, and mightyena has a chance to OHKO carbink with iron tail.

calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Mightyena Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carbink: 265-312 (87.1 - 102.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Pawniard Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Carbink: 232-280 (76.3 - 92.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Carbink Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mightyena: 180-212 (64 - 75.4%)
4 SpA Carbink Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 81-96 (35 - 41.5%)

 

[Ares]

I thought carbink was a check to throh, so throh being banned means there's one less thing carbink checks, which means there's less reason to list carbink. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't throh being banned also warrant carbink's removal as a dark check?

You just said there was less reason to list it as a dark spam check cause Sneasel was banned. Now that Throh is banned Dark Spam is really really good, having something for Dark Spam as a backup is a good idea. Unfortunately Carbink can't really take on Pawniard, but your point is a double edged sword.

Edit: yah I just said it can't take on Pawniard, but there is really no reason to use Iron Tail on Mightyena if you're also running Pawniard. Instead you should be running Play Rough to wear down Poliwrath seeing as Pawniard handles Carbink. If you're building a balance or stall team Carbink can fit on as a secondary dark check.

 

[365pokemon]

You just said there was less reason to list it as a dark spam check cause Sneasel was banned. Now that Throh is banned Dark Spam is really really good, having something for Dark Spam as a backup is a good idea. Unfortunately Carbink can't really take on Pawniard, but your point is a double edged sword.

But don't all dark spam teams run mightyena, pawniard, or both? And since carbink doesn't check mightyena or pawniard, dark spam being more common doesn't make carbink any more of a dark check.

 

[Magnemite]

Yeah once I get around to updating this I'll remove Carbink as a Dark check considering it loses to both offensive Dark types in the tier now that Sneasel is banned. You can't be a Dark check unless you actually beat any Dark types, which Carbink really doesn't, just like how Togetic isn't listed as a Dark check even though it theoretically beats Dark types.

 

[Kingler]

agreeing, iron tail isn't that uncommon on mightyena and dark stabs + fairy leaves you with a filler fourth option where iron tail is /okay/ even if you're running pawniard

 

[g]

Venipede for Spikes/Tspikes
Marowak should be in electric checks as it does his job better than some of the Grass-types listed

 

[MZ]

Cherrim and chimecho to healing wish? I have no idea why they moved from like E to C but I'm pretty sure they do that

 

[gasquakee]

Lead section imo

Leavanny, Monferno, Golem, etc.

 

[Kingler]

If a Lead section were tto be made, I think a list of golem/carra/pilo/veni/whirli/monkey/ramp (anti lead)/dwebble would work, although pretty much every hazard user could potentially be led with. Anti-leads would be a better section imo, with Ramp preventing most hazard setters from doing their job and Poli having a great matchup versus most hazard setters except Rose which isn't really led with. Vacuum wave poli can usually KO most leads without taking any damage, although it cannot prevent hazards from getting up.