Other OU Pokemon of the Week V2 Week 6:Lucario

[Sun King]

Finally, another good one.

Victini is so underused this gen. To say it hits like a truck is putting it WAY too lightly.

(For reference...252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 486-573 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

It can viably run 3 sets: Choice Band, Special, and--my personal fave--Stalltini. Choice Band and Special are pretty simple--you just click buttons and watch stuff die. Stalltini, on the other hand, works beautifully to both dismantle and assist stall teams. It has both stall-breaking AND wall-breaking capabilities in one set--which is why it works so beautifully on stall. Having 93% accurate WoW makes it amazing on stall--burning common switch-ins (making them less common switch-ins); Also, having a move that actually deals significant damage on a stall team is such a bonus. Obviously, it has its downsides: It's Pursuit weak, weak to SR, and its Psychic-typing detracts from its Fire-typing.

All in all, pretty underrated mon; definitely would recommend using it on your team.

EDIT: Here's one of the Stalltini sets going around

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Strike
- V-create
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt

 

[The Bravest Bird]

sub pup !_!

but seriously, sub pup is one of victini's best sets. beating its usual counters is really cool, n you can get subs up on rotomw that try to volt switch unless they get a high roll.

if you guys want a team with it i can post my teambuilding comp entry

 

[Rainman Legends]

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Power-Up Punch

Credits to Bloo and gr8astard for this amazing Victini set. I first saw this set in the Victory Road Subforum and decided to try it out. What I saw amazed me. Almost nothing wants to take a +1 V-Create especially from a Victini behind a Sub. Regular physical checks to Victini fall under the power of +1 V-Create and Bolt Strike. V-Create+Bolt Strike have amazing coverage only resisted by Dragons. It can set up a Sub very well due to its typing, especially in Pokemons such as Mega Medicham and Mega Gardevoir. Power-Up Punch allows Victini to actually hurt Tyranittar and Heatran, who walls the usual CB-Tini+Stalltini. Adamant 152 speed is enough to outspeed Jolly Max Speed Mega Heracross. This set should definitely be used more and is one of my favorite sets to use ever due to the sheer power, ease against prediction with substitute, and ability to break through its normal checks and counters.

 

[The Bravest Bird]

Victini @ Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Power-Up Punch

Credits to Bloo and gr8astard for this amazing Victini set. I first saw this set in the Victory Road Subforum and decided to try it out. What I saw amazed me. Almost nothing wants to take a +1 V-Create especially from a Victini behind a Sub. Regular physical checks to Victini fall under the power of +1 V-Create and Bolt Strike. V-Create+Bolt Strike have amazing coverage only resisted by Dragons. It can set up a Sub very well due to its typing, especially in Pokemons such as Mega Medicham and Mega Gardevoir. Power-Up Punch allows Victini to actually hurt Tyranittar and Heatran, who walls the usual CB-Tini+Stalltini. Adamant 152 speed is enough to outspeed Jolly Max Speed Mega Heracross. This set should definitely be used more and is one of my favorite sets to use ever due to the sheer power, ease against prediction with substitute, and ability to break through its normal checks and counters.

I love this set, but it should run 160 spe for adamant exca

 

[Rainman Legends]

I love this set, but it should run 160 spe for adamant exca

160 can be used, but I generally don't want to take away from the bulk and I pair up SubPuP Victini with Mega Scizor and Specs Keldeo to take on the threats Victinis can't kill. If Victini is behind a Sub, Excadrill really doesn't want to fight it since it will be absolutely wrecked by V-Nuke (Create)

 

[The Bravest Bird]

its 8 hp its not making much of a difference...

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Hm is scarf Victini any good or is speed decrease not worth it?

 

[ssjjynx]

Hm is scarf Victini any good or is speed decrease not worth it?

With Victini's less than desirable typing in the current meta, being locked into one move can be dangerous if your opponent gets the switch right. The reason this doesn't apply to Banded Victini is because most things just die when they switch into banded V Create.

 

[nmitchell890]

I like Stalltini because it checks Mega Medicham and Mega Gardevoir really well. I would go special though because the stat drops from V-Create are horrible for a defensive pokemon.

 

[Tressed]

I like Stalltini because it checks Mega Medicham and Mega Gardevoir really well. I would go special though because the stat drops from V-Create are horrible for a defensive pokemon.

You're not making up for V-Create's power with Blue Flare, and V-Create is half the reason you'd run Victini at all, regardless of what sort of set you're running. You lose a ton of power from making the switch to a special spread.

252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 151-178 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Gardy can take a hit if it needs to, then your team is at it's mercy.
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 369-435 (133.2 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Yeah, Gardy's not staying in on this, so you can actually force it out.

252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Medicham: 222-262 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO - No prior damage is rare, but...
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 306-361 (117.2 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Why leave it to chance?

252+ SpA Victini Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 160-190 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - OHKO after Rocks is nice
252+ Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 316-374 (106.3 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Because sometimes OHKO after Rocks isn't good enough

You also need to consider that Victini isn't a standard wall, it's an offensively based check to several huge problems on stall. You aren't realistically switching in over and over throughout a match, so you need to make every single turn count. V-Create is the move to do it with.

Also, you have Wisp to deal with Pursuit users, so a -1 Def Victini isn't completely boned if it gets caught.

 

[nmitchell890]

You're not making up for V-Create's power with Blue Flare, and V-Create is half the reason you'd run Victini at all, regardless of what sort of set you're running. You lose a ton of power from making the switch to a special spread.

252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 151-178 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - Gardy can take a hit if it needs to, then your team is at it's mercy.
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 369-435 (133.2 - 157%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Yeah, Gardy's not staying in on this, so you can actually force it out.

252+ SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Medicham: 222-262 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO - No prior damage is rare, but...
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 306-361 (117.2 - 138.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Why leave it to chance?

252+ SpA Victini Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 160-190 (53.8 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - OHKO after Rocks is nice
252+ Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 316-374 (106.3 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO - Because sometimes OHKO after Rocks isn't good enough

You also need to consider that Victini isn't a standard wall, it's an offensively based check to several huge problems on stall. You aren't realistically switching in over and over throughout a match, so you need to make every single turn count. V-Create is the move to do it with.

Also, you have Wisp to deal with Pursuit users, so a -1 Def Victini isn't completely boned if it gets caught.

I was thinking more -1 Spe Victini against Pursuit users. It can't use Will-o-Wisp to cushion the hit if its not faster. Also, Victini forces Mega Medicham out regardless due to Will-o-Wisp and Mega Gardevoir likely won't stay in to find out if you are special. I do see your point though, Victini is a lot more consistent against Mega Gardevoir with V-Create and Mega Charizard Y with Bolt Strike while only losing out against Pursuit users.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

alright here's some stuff you can vote for this week

staraptor
entei
weavile
wobbuffet
klefki


you know the drill, PM ur vote to me

thread will be updated on friday

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

alright, impressed with the 9 votes i got

the winner of the voting process was weavile

discuss

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

Weavile imo quite strong, but also has too many switch in opportunities and lack of bulk

 

[Sun King]

Weavile was hurt badly by this generation's focus on powerful priority. The rise of the flying type would have been a great thing for Weavile if +2 Aerilate Quick Attacks and Choice Band Gale Wings Brave Bird were not things. It's not all bad, however, as the Steel nerf and Knock Off's buff helped Weavile out a little bit. It does have atrocious defensive typing and it's super frail, meaning it's tough to get in unless you get a double switch or it's coming in on the revenge.

 

[michaeloche]

Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
-Ice Shard
-Knock Off
-Pursuit/Low Kick
-Ice Punch

Probably the best Weavile set out there. Dark/Ice have very good coverage in OU, really only missing out on Bisharp, which is why Low Kick is slashed in. Max Attack and Speed are pretty much mandatory, as those are its only stats worth writing home about. Life Orb is ideal for power and the ability to switch moves, and the HP loss isn't a big deal because Weavile has no bulk anyway. You can run Swords Dance, but you pretty much need Focus Sash for that because it's hard to set up when you have no bulk, and you can forget about it entirely if hazards are up.

Ideally, you should use this for revenge killing or mid- to late-game cleaning. Good offensive partners include Keldeo, which can nail Bisharp, and Gothitelle, which can trap and remove (or at least weaken) physical walls to make Weavile's life easier.

 

[Miridy]

I was wondering... is ice punch really necessary as it stands when you have priority ice shard and steel types nerfed?
bold clefable will take an orbed ice punch without problems, skarmory, ferrothorn and majority of steel now take neutral damage from knock off, it will still not help you against azumarill whom totally stops weavile, and you got priority ice shard in order to kill stuff like scarfchomp, thundurus (252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 218-257 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, thundurus will also not paralyze you, since you are faster with a priority move), scarf landot and so on.
I consider pursuit the primal reason when someone wants to use weavile, a fast dark type non-choice locked (scarftar, scarfbisharp) who can trap and kill problematic stuff like latios, but if Weavile has both ice punch, knock off, ice shard and pursuit he loses badly against greninja of all things, while low kick allows him to:
beat special defensive heatran with a combination of knock off and low kick.
Greatly weaken greninja, which is very problematic for offensive teams (even if you get an unlucky damage roll greninja will still die against low kick+sr+ life orb)
destroy tyranitar
has a very high chance to 2hko 252/88+ ferrothorn with a combination of stealth rocks, knock off and low kick
has a 44% chance to ohko scarfmagnezone (which is slower) after stealth rocks, which means that with a bit of residual damage you can also kill him easily.
The only things I can see ice punch doing is kill mega pinsir (a moot point, because pinsir won't say on you if quick attack cannot ohko you, which is a 47-56 damage) do some damage on mega heracross and kill pdef zapdos, then again I can't see zapdos staying in on weavile.
Dunno, i'd like to hear some opinions about Weavile's 4MSS

 

[hey yal]

I was wondering... is ice punch really necessary as it stands when you have priority ice shard and steel types nerfed?
bold clefable will take an orbed ice punch without problems, skarmory, ferrothorn and majority of steel now take neutral damage from knock off, it will still not help you against azumarill whom totally stops weavile, and you got priority ice shard in order to kill stuff like scarfchomp, thundurus (252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 218-257 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, thundurus will also not paralyze you, since you are faster with a priority move), scarf landot and so on.
I consider pursuit the primal reason when someone wants to use weavile, a fast dark type non-choice locked (scarftar, scarfbisharp) who can trap and kill problematic stuff like latios, but if Weavile has both ice punch, knock off, ice shard and pursuit he loses badly against greninja of all things, while low kick allows him to:
beat special defensive heatran with a combination of knock off and low kick.
Greatly weaken greninja, which is very problematic for offensive teams (even if you get an unlucky damage roll greninja will still die against low kick+sr+ life orb)
destroy tyranitar
has a very high chance to 2hko 252/88+ ferrothorn with a combination of stealth rocks, knock off and low kick
has a 44% chance to ohko scarfmagnezone (which is slower) after stealth rocks, which means that with a bit of residual damage you can also kill him easily.
The only things I can see ice punch doing is kill mega pinsir (a moot point, because pinsir won't say on you if quick attack cannot ohko you, which is a 47-56 damage) do some damage on mega heracross and kill pdef zapdos, then again I can't see zapdos staying in on weavile.
Dunno, i'd like to hear some opinions about Weavile's 4MSS

Ice Punch 2hkos zard x or sum shit and other stuff. I'm lazy so I won't show teh calc

 

[Miridy]

Hm
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 138-164 (41.4 - 49.2%)
It makes you wonder if Smogon planned that this far.
Anyways 4 hp zard x has a 60% chance to get 2hked by ice punch, while both knock off and ice punch will 2hko him if stealth rocks are on the field.

 

[hey yal]

Hm
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 138-164 (41.4 - 49.2%)
It makes you wonder if Smogon planned that this far.
Anyways 4 hp zard x has a 60% chance to get 2hked by ice punch, while both knock off and ice punch will 2hko him if stealth rocks are on the field.

welp. i heard someone say it but it's not true.

Edit: mods you can delete my weavile posts if yu want to.

 

[pj]

I think no one uses Poison jab on weave but i do it helps to get rid of fairies and helps me many ways. It's good late game sweeper too but having ×4 weak to fighting makes it weak in ou tier but with its superb speed and decent attack makes it viable a bit. It's also sometimes used early with focus sash but it's very rare.

 

[Red King]

cool pokemon i've been using with weavile is mega houndoom. Now, at first glance, thats a horrible idea. Walled by the same pokemon, especially keldeo and azumarill. Why on earth would i do that? Answer: Destiny Bond. Houndoom gets destiny bond, and is walled by the same threats. Meaning it can take them out. Keldeo comes out? Houndoom uses dbond and clears the way for a weavile to sweep with it's low kick set. Weavile does kinda lack the power to pull of a clean sweep, so this is more of a late/mid game win condition. SR are reccomended to put things in weavile's kill range.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

New voting period

Haxorus
Entei
Lucario

PM me your vote

 

[Wimblesaurus]

I like Fake Out on Weavile because it lets it deal with Dragonite, Greninja, and Thundy way more reliably. I also have an absolutely BURNING hatred of sashes, so being able to say fuck you to people that think Garchomp, Terrakion, Mamoswine, and Breloom are Miss America is just about the most satisfying thing in the world.

I'd say Ice Punch is, for the most part, superfluous. The only case I can think of where I'd really want Ice Punch over Pursuit, SD, or Fake Out is against Lando-T, and Weavile is far from an optimal answer to Lando-T anyway.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

Lucario won this potw vote