ORAS UU Viability Rankings V4

[Malin]

Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

ffs this is the only Specs Kyurem set that should ever be used. Both Specs Dragon Pulse and Specs Ice Beam are spammable moves that deal consistently damage, while Draco Meteor has that one time nuke power for early game switch ins. Focus Blast hits every Steel type at least for neutral damage which gives this beast perfect coverage. Dragon Pulse sounds replaceable but there are countless times when Dragon Pulse is just enough to spam and win you games in this bulky water tier.

Earth Power is bad. Blizzard is really bad, Ice Beam just need some switches to kill Florges with hazards up. Do not use Blizzard at all, unless u wanna lose 30% of the time.

Btw, before someone talk about Focus Blast, spamming Focus Blast isn't a game plan, but a coverage option. Unlike Blizzard to break Florges.

 

[Pinkin Lark]

I mean, if you're so determined to kill a Florges with Kyurem, why not just run LO Iron Head at that point? Even Bold Florges gets 2HKO'd without any real investment.

As for the nom itself (and an attempt to get the thread away from one line posts about a really niche set), I can understand a drop. While the thing is an obvious powerhouse on both sides, it's slightly odd typing leaves it vulnerable defensively to a lot of things most dragons aren't, such as Steel and Fighting. 125/90/90 can slightly make up for this, but mons like Mineshao will still blow a giant hole into the poor thing. Not to mention it is nowhere near as easy to stick a Kyu onto a team compared to the likes of Mence of Dreigon, usually needing a fair bit more support.

Also, it's been overdue to move Vaporeon into D rank. It's pretty much entirely outdone as a bulky water by Milotic, and Alomomola can typically fill the same Wishpasser role but better. Guess the main advantage to either would be the access to Heal Bell, but at that point you could just use the likes of Florges.

 

[FFXIII-Lightning]

Vap can wish pass but is that enough of a niche to not be moved down to D? What I hear from most people is, no, it isn't. But I think that wish passing CAN be very key in gaining momentum, you're getting the switch where you know what you're switching into as well as the health restore. I don't think it's a great set, but I'm on the fence on whether it should be moved down to D or not.

 

[Freeroamer]

What do people think of Empoleon(high A-) and Reuniclus(low A) current placements? I know myself that I haven't used a Reuniclus team in like forever because I'm always fearing the builds that I want Reuniclus to be effective against bringing Sableye who's so common on those bulkier builds now and my Reuniclus becoming a dud. It's kinda hard to get away from that because Sableye is really hard to take advantage of and pin down(in my personal experience anyway) which means even vs the teamstyles Reuni should be effective vs, it wilts terribly. OTR is hard to justify on squads too, as well as the general idea that you never really throw Reuniclus on a build, you build for it instead.

I also really really like Empoleon right now. While it doesn't have terrific versatility in its sets, it can at least offer the fat set or the offensive Shuca set which is actually pretty important as it can cater itself to its teams needs. It's a true UU balance staple and I think it deserves to be ranked a lil higher. Would love to hear some more opinions tho

 

[YABO]

Not sure why everybody is freaking out about a largely arbitrary 4th move on a pokemon that hardly ever clicks its last move anyways. I've used Specs Kyurem a ton and in 90% of games I could have only Ice Beam and Draco Meteor and I wouldn't notice that I was missing two moves (note to self, check if Kyurem gets Sleep Talk). I personally use Earth Power because I'm too lazy to change to Dragon Pulse, but there are definitely notable uses for each move despite their shortcomings. Earth Power is far from terrible, Flash Cannon doesn't play to Kyurem's most endearing quality, and Blizzard has accuracy issues. Dragon Pulse is probably the most appealing but when you're clicking a Dragon move you usually want to nuke something anyways, hence why the primary Dragon STAB move is always Draco, not Dragon Pulse. So if every fourth move has its problems and the first 2/3 moves are the only important ones, who the fuck cares what you use in the last slot.

 

[ManOfMany]

Vap can wish pass but is that enough of a niche to not be moved down to D? What I hear from most people is, no, it isn't. But I think that wish passing CAN be very key in gaining momentum, you're getting the switch where you know what you're switching into as well as the health restore. I don't think it's a great set, but I'm on the fence on whether it should be moved down to D or not.

well I was under the impression that Vap's niche was less WishPass (which Alomomola can do) but having WishPass + Heal Bell. It's basically a role compression mon that can fill the niche of a bulky water/special wall, Wish passer, and status healer in one slot. Even so, that's really such a small niche it only fits on very specific teams. Hence the C- ranking.

 

[FFXIII-Lightning]

sorry by wish pass i mean wish+baton pass

 

[DMT]

I just wanna say that I've been using Kyurem quite a bit over the past week, and I really do like having focus blast to hit lax/coba on the switches.

 

[The Swan]

If it's alright, I would like to nominate Sharpedo to go from C+ to B-. As a revenge killer, Sharpedo can do his job extremely well with a combination of Life Orb, Speed Boost Crunches, and Aqua Jet. With a hard-hitting STAB Crunch at his disposal as well, Sharpedo can almost always put heavy damage on anything that doesn't resist it. After using a single Protect, Sharpedo can outspeed many major threats in the metagame, making it even easier to revenge kill. I have also had quite a bit of success putting Destiny Bond on Sharpedo as well, as it can often take out a major threat from its surprise factor, and it is a good move to use with low health. As a final bonus, it doesn't occupy the mega slot that would be taken by using Mega Sharpedo. I don't think that Sharpedo is good enough to absolutely run rampant in UU, but I think that it can easily catch opponents who aren't ready for it off guard, and take a Pokemon or two down with it.

 

[Adaam]

What do people think of Slowking to A-? A lot of threats that made it hard to use are falling in popularity, mainly Crawdaunt which has seen a huge drop in usage since new toy syndrome was cured (seriously, has it ever been used in SPL).

Also with Zam being ubiquitous it makes a decent check to it with T-Wave. In fact I really like T-Wave King, especially with Colbur Berry. It lures in every Dark and moms with Dark coverage (Gatr, Mamo) and cripples them minus Krook (which you Scald), and M-Absol (not as common). CM or NP sets also drastically reduce passivity and let it beat things like Sab on the switch, which is often relied on checking Psychics.

Cobalion and Aero are still everywhere. Fire types are still threatening. Chandelure and Heracross are on the decline. CM Florges is still the queen of UU Balance right now. All these things bode well for our favorite pink thing. Slowking for A-

 

[LRXC]

If it's alright, I would like to nominate Sharpedo to go from C+ to B-. As a revenge killer, Sharpedo can do his job extremely well with a combination of Life Orb, Speed Boost Crunches, and Aqua Jet. With a hard-hitting STAB Crunch at his disposal as well, Sharpedo can almost always put heavy damage on anything that doesn't resist it. After using a single Protect, Sharpedo can outspeed many major threats in the metagame, making it even easier to revenge kill. I have also had quite a bit of success putting Destiny Bond on Sharpedo as well, as it can often take out a major threat from its surprise factor, and it is a good move to use with low health. As a final bonus, it doesn't occupy the mega slot that would be taken by using Mega Sharpedo. I don't think that Sharpedo is good enough to absolutely run rampant in UU, but I think that it can easily catch opponents who aren't ready for it off guard, and take a Pokemon or two down with it.

Well, I think regular Sharpedo's niche is its special attacking power, I feel that if your using regular sharpedo, its mainly for its special attacking set. Cyndequil. actually brought this mon to my attention, and it seems really cool. I haven't ever used Regular Sharpedo but I would like to see some more discussion on this topic

 

[Cheryl.]

Porygon2 for B+

Another user has touched on this already, but I'd like to see some discussion on Porygon2 to B+. Porygon2 is great for being a blanket check to a lot of threatening things in the metagame, such as Mega Aerodactyl and Hydreigon, and has great support options as well, including Thunder Wave, Trick Room for TR teams, and Toxic. It has the potential to be an offensive threat as well with his good coverage and 105 Special Attack. All of these traits make Porygon2 a pretty splashable mon on a lot of teams for it's bulk and support options. The rise in usage of mons like Mega Sceptile also help P2, as it's a decent check to it, and the drop of Gyarados is great as well since P2 can wall it. Porygon2 does have flaws, such as it's lack of passive recovery (Leftovers), and being weak to the common Fighting type moves, but I think that all of it's positive traits, including checking some of the meta's biggest threats, make it a notch higher than the B ranked mons, and it is a B+ mon in my eyes.

 

[Threw]

This is 4 quick posts in a row that aren't directly related, rip. But whatever.

I was looking at B-, and I don't know when/if Aromatisse was ever relevant, but the hyper-niche that is Aroma Veil doesn't at all mitigate the amount by which Florges outclasses it, which is, by the way, a massive amount, and it doesn't deserve anything above C+ if that imo. It is the only mon in B- other than Milotic that is so directly outclassed by a significantly better mon, except that Milotic's niche over CroCune of beating Sub DD Gyara is much more relevant and it's really just better than Aromatisse in general. Getting to be more lazy with your setup sweepers when Whimsicott is on the other team isn't an advantage that would ever justify using Aromatisse over Florges.

Speaking of which, B- is really weird. Why are mons with very small niches like Milotic and Galvantula next to ones with really important roles, such as Aero, Arcanine, Blissey, Cloyster, and Darm? I think the whole rank could use some shuffling tbh.

 

[Freeroamer]

Aromatisse niche isn't solely in Aroma Veil, it's more in it's better physical bulk that allows it to be a better check to shit like Heracross Mienshao etc. Not saying it's good and a drop is probs fair, but it's important to understand that's the niche. It also passes bigger wishes which is cool I guess but it comes with the tradeoff that it can only check weaker special threats or threats it walls by virtue of it's typing, whereas you can throw Florges in front of stuff like mstoise and come out ok. Obvs Florges has more versatility too with CM set and the option to use Synth or Wish.

 

[rs]

Most of the noms have already been discussed, but here's just some quick thoughts

(C- to D) Disagree: Though I haven't used Vaporeon as of late, I don't think its completely unviable in the current metagame at all. I think the problem people have when using it is that they try to make Vaporeon some kind of mixed defensive Pokemon, sort of like how people use P2 now. If I had to use Vaporeon it would have to be either max def + bold (even max def + bold doesn't check much, so I think it would be best to just go with spdef most of the time), or max spdef + calm. Besides all that, I think it should stay out of D-Rank because of the reason that its the best Wish-Baton Passer in the tier, and I think that's a big enough niche to be considered at least somewhat viable in the current metagame. Also it has a pretty nice ability in Water Absorb, which completely walls variants of Dual-STAB Gyarados (Protect is on almost every Vap set), which is one of the more prominent drops in recent months.

(C to C+) Agree: Yeah I think Meloetta is actually extremely underrated as of now, Specs sets drops nukes with STABs and it has really nice coverage in Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, or even U-turn (Choiced sets), and as dodmen said it's a really nice offensive check to Zam. What dodmen didn't mention in his nom was the Calm Mind set, which can actually do quite a number on a few unprepared teams, especially with the decrease in viability of Doublade (which walls both of its STABs), which was a offensive and defensive staple on a wide variety of different team styles a few months ago. Lastly, its speed tier is pretty nice, outspeeding thinks like Entei, Gyarados, Mamoswine, and some other prominent threats.

(B to B+/A-) Agree: I don't really know why or when this thing dropped, but it's still one of the best, and splashable defensive pokemon in the tier. By my count, it beats 5 (beats all 3 S Ranked Pokemon) out of the 10 S- and A+ ranked Pokemon, which is obviously really nice when filling in defensive backbones. I'm pretty sure everybody knows its flaws already (Knock Off, Status, passive recovery), but I don't think its enough to keep it down in B.

 

[LRXC]

Sorry for posting another quick one, but not to mention Aromatisse also is pitifully slow, as Florges actually has alright speed in a base 75, while Aromatisse sits at 29. Aromatisse also doesnt hit hard, and Florges actually just hits really hard. The other thing too is that Though Aromatisse has Aroma Veil so it cant be taunted, many taunt mons already outright lose to Florges anyway. This includes Hydreigon, Krookodile, Sableye, etc. The only other thing it blocks is Encore, which I guess is useful but still not super important. Aromatisse sometimes just doesnt have enough physical bulk sometimes to effectively play as a defensive cleric. The only other cool thing Aromatisse has is its viability on TR teams, as it actually is a really good setter. But again, Florges just outdoes it almost everywhere, and I wouldn't find myself using this thing over Florges or Granbull for my teams needs.

So in conclusion, I totally agree with Threw and Freeroamer 's points. Aromatisse needs to drop

 

[FFXIII-Lightning]

also side note: is blissey really only B-? seems like it should be higher as the premier special wall in the tier

 

[Schpoonman]

I thought as much when Blissey dropped, but the top minds in the tier thought much higher of Florges lack of passivity.

Uh, sorry, drunk. Basically, Blissey's only form of "offensive" pressure is just Seismic Toss which is seriously lacking.

 

[Ramses]

Aromatisse has a small niche of being a nice part of hard stall teams that need the better mixed bulk especially physically. Other than that there is little to no reason to use it over Florges.

Donphan dropping to C+ is completely warranted. In terms of what it can do you only use it if you're in dire need of a Rapid Spinner if any of the various Defoggers don't fit. Offensively it does have merit with its Choice Band set which is actually good, better than the Defensive set if you ask me. Being able to lure stuff like Florges, Swampert, and common switch-in's to it with its great coverage and powerful Earthquakes is pretty nice and the only thing that keeps it B- in my eyes, but since we're judging on a whole, then yes it's ready for a drop.

 

[That rapper's adlibs]

(C to C+) Agree: Yeah I think Meloetta is actually extremely underrated as of now, Specs sets drops nukes with STABs and it has really nice coverage in Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, or even U-turn (Choiced sets), and as dodmen said it's a really nice offensive check to Zam. What dodmen didn't mention in his nom was the Calm Mind set, which can actually do quite a number on a few unprepared teams, especially with the decrease in viability of Doublade (which walls both of its STABs), which was a offensive and defensive staple on a wide variety of different team styles a few months ago. Lastly, its speed tier is pretty nice, outspeeding thinks like Entei, Gyarados, Mamoswine, and some other prominent threats.

I'm not sure if that many people are aware of perish song meloetta either.

Meloetta @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Calm Nature
- Perish Song
- Heal Bell
- Psyshock
- U-turn

It's very effective at stopping setup (especially slower setup from suicune, florges, snorlax, etc) by virtue of forcing the opponent to switch by the end of those 3 turns or die. It also can just prevent terrible stay-in situations (it has stopped slurpuffs from cleaning shop too much if it's already out so there's that). With it getting off u-turn right after it has the added benefit of essentially scouting to see what your opponent does next, and at least slightly punish potential dark switch-ins into another mon.

 

[Highways]

Ok, a few things:

Slowking from B+ to A-: Agree

Slowking is a Pokémon that can block the majority of the Physical Sweepers of the Metagame, and setup CM or use Thunder Wave on it, both can help you in some situations. I know that Slowking has a bad matchup against some Special Sweepers such as Sceptile and Hydreigon, but that are some Pokémon that can be great partners, such as Florges or Whimsicott (Fairy-Types, usually). Also, it can block Cobalion and Mega Aerodactyl with perfection and KO it later with Scald or use it as Setup Bait, also, Fairy-Types such as Entei and Darmanitan can't touch Slowking (btw Darmanitan don't do a lot of damage with U-Turn).

Kyurem from A- to B+: Disagree

Kyurem is a monster in this current Metagame. Only AV users and Blissey can resist it (Florges is 2HKOed after Stealth Rock and Flash Cannon). Draco Meteor and Ice Beam are powerful STAB Moves that can destroy HO and Balanced, with some calcs we can conclude that it definitively has not potential to be a B+ Pokémon...

 

[retrowaves]

I disagree with Slowking going to A-. It has a decent niche, however it has troubles against things that can resist its stab (such as hydreigon), and even after one cm it takes tons of damage from things such as Mega Scep and Heliolisk, not to mention the very-common Krook, that can 2ohko it with knock off / pursuit on a switch. It also hates statuses, as most status users also carry taunt and have recovery, being able to stall it to death.

 

[Threw]

I don't like the "x counters y so y is bad" argument; i hate to point out the obvious, but everything has checks. Slowking generally doesn't like status, but if you're running it you're probably running balance so you have a Florges to deal with that. It's one of the best DD Mence checks around, and the fact that it's a T-Wave user that Ground-types can't switch in on is godly in itself. Honestly, I'd call it the premier defensive pivot in the game what with all the utility it has access to. How can a mon with great defensive typing, Scald, T-Wave, D-Tail, Regenerator, amazing instant recovery, highly enviable bulk, Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, and even Ice Beam for kids who think they're safe switching in Mega Scept not be worthy of A-?

 

[retrowaves]

Just to make things clear, I didn't say that slowking is bad because of it's checks, what I said is that it shouldn't be on A- because it's constantly forced out even after calm minding. Though it has a great bulk, it may only work late game, after it's checks are all gone, and even then at that point it may still not have free turns to setup, and usually balanced builds only have one cleric only, that is constantly forced to use aromatherapy / heal bell to keep it healthy (and they eventually run out of it sooner or later.) It's a mon that needs too much team support, and people usually have checks for it without even thinking that their team might be weak to it.

 

[Threw]

that makes sense if you're thinking about the cm set, but i very rarely see the cm set. the most effective one imo is generally scald/psyshock/slack off/t-wave although you can fit d-tail/IB in there over psyshock