ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread

[eren]

Would like to bring up a nomination I had in my first post but I think needs diccusion:

Mega Swampert (A) -> A-

Reasoning:
Simply put, the metagame has changed. The need for manual rain has completely hurt mega Swampert and raised its opportunity cost a bunch more when you can use megas such as Aerodactyl, Beedrill, Aggron, Blastoise, Sharpedo, and Pidgeot instead of Swampert. In fact, non-mega Swampert is a better support mon than its mega, I feel. One part of this is the lack of recovery that it's non mega has (leftovers) and using non-mega pert allows you to use a mega. Furthermore, Band Regular Pert hits loads harder than offensive mega pert, so indeed, Mega Pert is outclassed by its deemed inferior non-mega counterpart. I say: Drop Mega Pert and Keep Regular Pert at A.

My reasoning for these probably suck so tell me what I said wrong :[
E: manual rain also limits mega pert's moveset for coverage, etc. also needs a turn to set-up... And need to utilize the 2x boost needs speed, limiting Mega Pert's options as a bulky rock setter

 

[GULLY]

I dont know if i agree with that.. the meta that has happened since pert came into the tier has helped waters. I do agree that manual rain is cumbersome but the sr set is awesome. even tho its not the easiest thing to fit in on a team its a big threat either way

 

[eren]

I dont know if i agree with that.. the meta that has happened since pert came into the tier has helped waters. I do agree that manual rain is cumbersome but the sr set is awesome. even tho its not the easiest thing to fit in on a team its a big threat either way

But why run that when regular pert can still hit hard, has some recovery (solid 7% imo), and set up rocks?
E: and you can also run a mega like beedrill that has great syergy with pert

You can still run a Bulky Mega Pert set w/ rocks while still benefitting from the stat increases. It'll obviously be more offensive minded than its Leftovers Counterpart, but that fact alone doesn't speak to its viability.

I have to disagree with the moving to A- ; Mega Swampert doesn't need rain to be fully effective, sporting many diverse options in the form of EV distribution. Quite frankly, you never know which Mega Swampert set you're playing against until some action happens.

What would be an optimal mega pert spread? I've actually, even though i felt it should drop in viability, wanted to try it
E: Offensive SR setter

 

[Kink]

But why run that when regular pert can still hit hard, has some recovery (solid 7% imo), and set up rocks?

You can still run a Bulky Mega Pert set w/ rocks while still benefitting from the stat increases. It'll obviously be more offensive minded than its Leftovers Counterpart, but that fact alone doesn't speak to its viability.

I have to disagree with the moving to A- ; Mega Swampert doesn't need rain to be fully effective, sporting many diverse options in the form of EV distribution. Quite frankly, you never know which Mega Swampert set you're playing against until some action happens.

Also, Manual Rain doesn't hurt Mega Swampert, it's one of the focal points of the set.

 

[GULLY]

Stealth Rock
Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Punch
252 atk/252 speed
Adamant or Jolly, Jolly can outspeed thing like Honch Modest Nido but i would try Adamant since hits pretty hard

 

[eren]

You can still run a Bulky Mega Pert set w/ rocks while still benefitting from the stat increases. It'll obviously be more offensive minded than its Leftovers Counterpart, but that fact alone doesn't speak to its viability.

I have to disagree with the moving to A- ; Mega Swampert doesn't need rain to be fully effective, sporting many diverse options in the form of EV distribution. Quite frankly, you never know which Mega Swampert set you're playing against until some action happens.

Also, Manual Rain doesn't hurt Mega Swampert, it's one of the focal points of the set.

Rain is its focal point, I agree, but the introduction of many new toys to UU makes it difficult to pull off a turn a rain and still able to sweep
E: if mega pert is weakened, Im pretty sure mega aero out speeds adamant mega pert in the rain and knocks it out.
E2: What can be a moveset for offensive sr setter mega pert?

 

[Kink]

Rain is its focal point, I agree, but Drizzle's ban a bit ago did hurt it. Furthermore, the introduction of many new toys to UU makes it difficult to pull off a turn a rain and still able to sweep
E: if mega pert is weakened, Im pretty sure mega aero out speeds adamant mega pert in the rain and knocks it out.
E2: What can be a moveset for offensive se setter mega pert?

Uh... no? Mega Pert will always outspeed Mega Aero in the rain. Also, is there any particular reason you're mentioning drizzle as "something that's taken away from Mega Swamp" cause Mega Swamp never had drizzle teammates to begin with in UU.


Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock

Listed speed outspeed uninvested 85s pre-mega (Suicune, Gligar). Post-Mega, Outspeeds Arcanine and other uninvested 95s, including snagging OHKOs on bulky Roserade. If you manage to use another Rain Dancer, that 227 speed outspeeds Max Speed Mega Aero by a ton, which means you're outspeeding all positive Scarf 85s as well.

 

[eren]

Uh... no? Mega Pert will always outspeed Mega Aero in the rain. Also, is there any particular reason you're mentioning drizzle as "something that's taken away from Mega Swamp" cause Mega Swamp never had drizzle teammates to begin with in UU.

Whoops, just looked on calc. Jolly Aero (most run adamant) reaches 438, while 152 speed (which my calc put for me) reaches around 209. Adamant Max Speed reaches 249. Drizzle partners was my mistake...
E: let me run 204 speed on calc <reaches 227

 

[Ununhexium]

Actually most Mega Aerodactyl run 216 Jolly iirc

 

[YABO]

Actually most Mega Aerodactyl run 216 Jolly iirc

Given Mega Aeros ridiculous rise in popularity a lot of them are just running max Speed Jolly to get the jump on each other. There isn't too much relevant bulk from a stray 44 evs anyhow.

 

[eren]

Like generating chat so posting another nomination:

Mega Sceptile (B+) -> B

Reasoning:
With the ridiculous rise of mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, Scarf Heracross, and Scarf Salamence, Mega Sceptile is outsped and OHKOed by each of them. Other things that it does outspeed, such as Crobat and Entei, It can't even 2HKO them in some cases. Drop it

Hide

Calcs
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 157-186 (52.1 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Crobat: 178-210 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 97-115 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 240 SpD Entei: 144-171 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

E:
Bored and have time, so let's nominate something else:

Darmanitan (B+) -> A-

Reasoning:
This monster destroys everything. With the limited support of a water type check (I.e Whimiscott [which I run with tailwind so darm gets free kills), Darmanitan can destroy entire Defensive and Offensive cores in his lonesome. Not even Max/Max Pert can switch in that well, taking around 40% from band Darm flare blitz. Raise it.

Hide

Calcs #ResistedHit:
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 156-183 (38.9 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 220-259 (67.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Umbreon: 298-352 (75.6 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 484-571 (129.7 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lost the other points that I had in my head imo.
Reasoning I put here kinda sux, help me out :|.

 

[Kink]

Given Mega Aeros ridiculous rise in popularity a lot of them are just running max Speed Jolly to get the jump on each other. There isn't too much relevant bulk from a stray 44 evs anyhow.

What do you mean by the stray EVs? 227 out speeds max jolly.

 

[Skankovich]

Darm hits hard, but as a physical wallbreaker fire types are so over-prepared for in UU. I'd really rather use something like SD hera that has way more limited answers than darm, especially in bulky waters: the tier.

I think its scarf set is best tbh, it's a shame that its outsped by mence, dreigon and shao but its power is fantastic and it really cleans up well as immunities to its STABs are far rarer than for Shao, mence and dreigon, Flare Blitz is 100% accurate and it doesn't get confused like mence does with outrage.

Even so, I can't see it moving up, it's prepared for by most teams without particularly trying.

 

[Sam]

What do you mean by the stray EVs? 227 out speeds max jolly.

He means the extra EVs on Aerodactyl. And yes, most Aero right now just run max speed jolly.

 

[YABO]

What do you mean by the stray EVs? 227 out speeds max jolly.

If you run 216 Jolly to get the jump on Beedrill you have 40 evs left over, thought it was 44 off the top of my head. With Mega Aeros crazy popularity at the moment the marginal bulk you gain from 40 hp is often not worth the chance that you will get outsped by opposing Mega Aerodactyl

 

[Lord Wallace]

If you run 216 Jolly to get the jump on Beedrill you have 40 evs left over, thought it was 44 off the top of my head. With Mega Aeros crazy popularity at the moment the marginal bulk you gain from 40 hp is often not worth the chance that you will get outsped by opposing Mega Aerodactyl

Unless you're Tewmew :l

 

[Thisbemyalt]

Like generating chat so posting another nomination:

Mega Sceptile (B+) -> B

Reasoning:
With the ridiculous rise of mega Aerodactyl, Mega Beedrill, Scarf Heracross, and Scarf Salamence, Mega Sceptile is outsped and OHKOed by each of them. Other things that it does outspeed, such as Crobat and Entei, It can't even 2HKO them in some cases. Drop it

Hide

Calcs
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 157-186 (52.1 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Crobat: 178-210 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 97-115 (26.1 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 240 SpD Entei: 144-171 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

E:
Bored and have time, so let's nominate something else:

Darmanitan (B+) -> A-

Reasoning:
This monster destroys everything. With the limited support of a water type check (I.e Whimiscott [which I run with tailwind so darm gets free kills), Darmanitan can destroy entire Defensive and Offensive cores in his lonesome. Not even Max/Max Pert can switch in that well, taking around 40% from band Darm flare blitz. Raise it.

Hide

Calcs #ResistedHit:
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 156-183 (38.9 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 220-259 (67.6 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Umbreon: 298-352 (75.6 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 484-571 (129.7 - 153%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Lost the other points that I had in my head imo.
Reasoning I put here kinda sux, help me out :|.

On phone so fair warning for the mess that you all r about to witness. As far as Darm is concerned I disagree with this rise because in the latest metagame trends (including a possible serperior ban) bulky waters r stronger than they have ever been. This puts darm in a bad place because while he is a threat his hole punching capabilities r hindered while as a scarfer he is outclassed by mence and shao for the most part. And lets be honest entei/nape r far better as UU fire types. As for sceptile I would ask to wait until post suspect to discuss him because serps potential ban could very much increase mega sceptiles viability while a no ban could justify him being lowered imo.

 

[eren]

On phone so fair warning for the mess that you all r about to witness.

I'm scared ._.
E: as hell

 

[Hogg]

In my opinion the only really worthwhile Darm set is CB, and that's primarily for its ability to break many defensive checks, opening things up for sweepers like Luke or Mence who appreciate the bruising Darm can put on bulky Waters. The Scarf set is largely outclassed by Mienshao and Nape in my opinion, since both of those have the Speed tier to beat other common Scarfers and DDers.

Also, I'm still very much in favor of bumping Kyurem up to A-. In addition to the totally deadly SubRoost set that I use on two of my teams, and the sheer power of the Specs set, I've been playing with a mixed LO set lately with Draco, IB and Iron Head that just demolishes common stall and balance cores. I used to think its LO set was outclassed by Drei, but STAB IB, better mixed attacking stats and the ability to tank a Moonblast to 2HKO physically defensive Florges differentiate it from Hydreigon there.

 

[eren]

In my opinion the only really worthwhile Darm set is CB, and that's primarily for its ability to break many defensive checks, opening things up for sweepers like Luke or Mence who appreciate the bruising Darm can put on bulky Waters. The Scarf set is largely outclassed by Mienshao and Nape in my opinion, since both of those have the Speed tier to beat other common Scarfers and DDers.

Yeah, thats the set I run, which really helped my team busting through every wall... Which is why I nommed it on the basis of the band set over the scarf set

 

[Vapo]

Nominating Virizion

(B-) -> B/B+

This thing is actually really solid in UU. Sure, things like Crobat and Aerodactyl-Mega prevent it from being a top tier threat, but I definitely think it's above Galvantula in viability. Virizion sits at an excellent speed tier of 108, allowing it to outspeed a majority of the unboosted meta. It has an excellent movepool and stat distribution, allowing it to successfully pull off physical and special sets, and even defensive sets to an extent. Grass/Fighting typing gives Virizion key resistances, notably Dark, Ground, Rock, and Water. Virizion resists the STAB moves of many common, threatening UU mons including Krookodile and Sharpedo. With its naturally high spdef, Virizion can also check special attackers including Hydreigon and Blastoise. It also gets access to both Swords Dance and Calm Mind, allowing it to act as an unpredictable sweeper/cleaner. Virizion is also a solid answer to Suicune, as it easily beats standard crocune (barring multiple scald burns if physical). While Virizion isn't a mon that can sweep entire teams after a single turn of set up and does require a bit of support to work optimally, it is certainly poses a bigger threat to most teams than the other mons in B-, which is why I feel it should move up.

 

[Master B8s]

Nominating Virizion

(B-) -> B/B+

This thing is actually really solid in UU. Sure, things like Crobat and Aerodactyl-Mega prevent it from being a top tier threat, but I definitely think it's above Galvantula in viability. Virizion sits at an excellent speed tier of 108, allowing it to outspeed a majority of the unboosted meta. It has an excellent movepool and stat distribution, allowing it to successfully pull off physical and special sets, and even defensive sets to an extent. Grass/Fighting typing gives Virizion key resistances, notably Dark, Ground, Rock, and Water. Virizion resists the STAB moves of many common, threatening UU mons including Krookodile and Sharpedo. With its naturally high spdef, Virizion can also check special attackers including Hydreigon and Blastoise. It also gets access to both Swords Dance and Calm Mind, allowing it to act as an unpredictable sweeper/cleaner. Virizion is also a solid answer to Suicune, as it easily beats standard crocune (barring multiple scald burns if physical). While Virizion isn't a mon that can sweep entire teams after a single turn of set up and does require a bit of support to work optimally, it is certainly poses a bigger threat to most teams than the other mons in B-, which is why I feel it should move up.

Virizion is a unique pokemon, but I would say it's CM sets aren't the reason it should move up. It's physical sets can not only get a free +1 from stray dark moves, namely knock off, but it can also threaten the flying types that give it a hard time with stone edge. It still gets forced out by them, but the fact that it can threaten them to switch in is big. It's CM sets don't have access to the strong base power moves like the physical set (plus relying on focus miss for your main fighting STAB sucks, but thats just from personal use). You have giga drain for recovery, but that doesn't help when Virizion can't punish the flying types that come in for free. You can run HP ice or rock, but the base power is so low, and unboosted won't hurt much. I agree with it moving up from the SD set though.

 

[Gorechomp]

I agree with the majority the Mega Sharpedo should be A rank. Strong Jaw Crunch too stronk.

 

[warzoid]

Drapion to Unranked / C

Why is this thing B- rank? I have literally never seen one on the ladder. It seems like it's just outclassed by Tentacruel and Nidoqueen as a T-Spikes user and by Krookodile as a physical dark type and Pursuit trapper. If someone actually has a good Drapion team let me know, but the only reason I can see for it being ranked is the based Acupressure set. :)

 

[newfren]

The reason Drapion was as high as B- was iirc for its spdef set that gave stall a good counter to mega-alakazam, a tspike user/absorber, and a phazer.

With M-zam gone and very little to fill its place I can see it moving back down to C.