Resource ORAS OU Metagame Discussion

[Thatwackycruton]

Physically Attacking Hoopa-U suffers from Rocky Helmet,Intimidate,Scald and WoW Burning,hard to pass bulky Ground/Steel like Hippowdon,Lando-T,Skarmory,Mega-Scizor.While specially ones habe problem with Chansey.
However,both sets of Hoopa's biggest threats are Fairy-Types and other Dark-Types,Foul Play OHKO any sets of Hoopa-U,Pursuit T-Tar and Weavile leave it no hope,and they resist its 2 STAB moves.Drain Punch is a more reliable move than Focus Blast.The only way to pass a Fairy-Type is Gunk Shot,which is a physical move.This two threats are easier to overcome by physical sets than the LO special biased mix sets.
And though the metagame has more physical walls and tanks than special ones,none of them handles Hyperspace Fury without a frown - except Mandibuzz,which handles any sets of Hoopa.While Chansey answers Dark Pulse with ease,brings special Hoopa-U a pressure to predict.

You are aware that Hyperspace Fury does not make contact with the opponent, correct? That said, it's also a solid 2HKO on Tankchomp. So I wouldn't say it really "struggles" with Tankchomp. Also

252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 159-188 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This is max defense mandibuzz. So, it doesn't really handle "any set of Hoopa-U"

 

[Sablenite]

You are aware that Hyperspace Fury does not make contact with the opponent, correct? That said, it's also a solid 2HKO on Tankchomp. So I wouldn't say it really "struggles" with Tankchomp. Also

252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 159-188 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

This is max defense mandibuzz. So, it doesn't really handle "any set of Hoopa-U"

I just pulled a random quote here, but this is getting irritating. These are currently being discussed in the viability rankings so just if you have to comment about it do so in the viability rankings, which I feel like this tread is a copy of rather than its intended goal anymore.

 

[Bluemargay]

So one thing that is surprisingly good in this meta is Venomoth. It has its problems like it can't do anything to Ferrothorn (unless it doesn't have Gyro Ball) and hates birds, but it's capable of beating pretty much every other pokemon in the their, including so-called checks Chansey, Heatran and Skarmory. +2 Timid outspeeds everything outside of Hawlucha with Unburden (which would never get to +2 unless it had focus sash) and Bug Poison is pretty good coverage.

 

[jordanthejq12]

On that note, are there any other low-ranked/unranked mons anybody's been having notable success with?

 

[Martin]

On that note, are there any other low-ranked/unranked mons anybody's been having notable success with?

As I have in the past, I personally find that Stunfisk is an E rank that has cool utility on offense (despite being kinda passive) for its role compression courtesy of its godly defensive typing (which allows it to act as a stop to electrics (regardless of their coverage) and talon), ability to guarantee that it keeps up rocks or cripples the opposing defogger/spinner by using Yawn on their switch-in (which is especially cool given that it lures Latios) and the vast amount of passive utility against contact users that is provided by the combination of Helmet, Static and Discharge. Hell, something I've had some success with is a set utilising Pain Split to remedy its longevity problems to an extent while also being able to deal heavy damage to certain Pokemon it can't normally touch, such as CM Blissey, Hippo and fat grasses. Both me and -Magic- have tried out different spreads on it and found that it is actually pretty customisable to the team's needs, having just about enough bulk to be capable of effectively investing for different hits/jump points and having a handful of options for luring common stops to it (e.g. Scald for Lando (most powerful hit it has for it barring hp ice (while uninvested doesn't do much/152 modest fails to 2HKO the burn rate is enough to make people think twice about switching in on it again, thus alleviating the pressure placed onto Fisk by it), Toxic for Hippo/Tang/Celebi etc.). Is it amazing? No. Kinda team-specific too due to just how specialised its niche is, but regardless its pretty cool.

Sets I've used with at least moderate success

Stunfisk @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 228 HP / 100 Def / 136 SpA / 44 SpD (my spread) OR 44 HP / 224 Def / 240 SpD (-Magic-'s spread)
Modest (my spread) / Bold (-Magic-'s spread) Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Discharge
- Earth Power
- Yawn

Team-specific options: Toxic, Scald

My spread 2HKOs AV Raikou after rocks and takes 2 HP Ices from specs Raikou/+1 Lefties Raikou before/after rocks (dependent on item). Kinda dated spread but it is optimal for checking electrics. -Magic-'s spread hits 370 HP and the last defense jump point.

Stunfisk @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 44 HP / 224 Def / 240 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Pain Split
- Discharge / Yawn
- Earth Power / Yawn

Utilised -Magic-'s spread from above. Choice of 2 attacks or 1 attack+yawn depends on the team's matchup v.s. electrics and talon.

 

[Martin]

Soz to double post but its been three days since the last post so it seems kinda pointless to edit my previous post.

I've been trying to get Mega Houndoom to work recently but honestly I've just found that it can't actually mega on anything anymore beyond obvious shit like defensive psychics and amoonguss. The offense shift has been cruel to it, and honestly I think that it suffers from Absol syndrome in that it is very reliant on certain moves to do mega evolve so that it can actually do something v.s. offense, and I'm finding that the NP set really struggles as a result of this. IMO its best set now is Tect/Sucker+3 attacks (former is much safer for mega evolving with, latter is piss weak uninvested v.s. neutral targets but it allows Doom to pick off Starmie with a little prior damage/weakened lati on the turn that it megas and removes the need for a speed tie v.s. Star post-mega) simply because it can take better advantage of the offensive meta with it. It absolutely needs its speed tier to function v.s. it, which is why NP is starting to drop off imo.
================================
Making another response to jordanthejq12's post just to say that AM's Xatu+Diancie core is pretty godly in this meta. With there being a general increase in the number of spikes stacking builds brought by the fall of gothstall, it is actually super anti-meta and can very easily alleviate a buttload of pressure and shift it onto the shoulders of your opponent.

 

[LusterSN]

Soz to double post but its been three days since the last post so it seems kinda pointless to edit my previous post.

I've been trying to get Mega Houndoom to work recently but honestly I've just found that it can't actually mega on anything anymore beyond obvious shit like defensive psychics and amoonguss. The offense shift has been cruel to it, and honestly I think that it suffers from Absol syndrome in that it is very reliant on certain moves to do mega evolve so that it can actually do something v.s. offense, and I'm finding that the NP set really struggles as a result of this. IMO its best set now is Tect/Sucker+3 attacks (former is much safer for mega evolving with, latter is piss weak uninvested v.s. neutral targets but it allows Doom to pick off Starmie with a little prior damage/weakened lati on the turn that it megas and removes the need for a speed tie v.s. Star post-mega) simply because it can take better advantage of the offensive meta with it. It absolutely needs its speed tier to function v.s. it, which is why NP is starting to drop off imo.
================================
Making another response to jordanthejq12's post just to say that AM's Xatu+Diancie core is pretty godly in this meta. With there being a general increase in the number of spikes stacking builds brought by the fall of gothstall, it is actually super anti-meta and can very easily alleviate a buttload of pressure and shift it onto the shoulders of your opponent.

Mega Houndoom definitely has viability in the tier with a very solid speed and special attack stat. However, I also think that it is set back by the strong and bulky water types in the tier, such as Azumarill and Keldeo

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Houndoom: 260-308 (89.3 - 105.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

It can have some viability in the tier If you run it with a hyper offense team with pokemon that can easily remove some of its checks and counters. Pokemon that can fulfill this role are Raikou or alakazam as they are fast and can both wallbrek threats to houndoom such as Keldeo, Starmie and Azumarill. Thats really as far as it gets though. If you can outspend and set up a nasty plot you should be good to go. I still think it is outclassed by Absol as you mentioned, but definitely viable :).

 

[Martin]

Mega Houndoom definitely has viability in the tier with a very solid speed and special attack stat. However, I also think that it is set back by the strong and bulky water types in the tier, such as Azumarill and Keldeo

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Houndoom: 260-308 (89.3 - 105.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

It can have some viability in the tier If you run it with a hyper offense team with pokemon that can easily remove some of its checks and counters. Pokemon that can fulfill this role are Raikou or alakazam as they are fast and can both wallbrek threats to houndoom such as Keldeo, Starmie and Azumarill. Thats really as far as it gets though. If you can outspend and set up a nasty plot you should be good to go. I still think it is outclassed by Absol as you mentioned, but definitely viable :).

The problem isn't it post-mega, but rather that it can't physically ME v.s. a load of squads atm. Also when did i say its outclassed by absol lol I said that Absol suffers from the same issue as it does. Its defo better than MAbsol XD

 

[LusterSN]

The problem isn't it post-mega, but rather that it can't physically ME v.s. a load of squads atm. Also when did i say its outclassed by absol lol I said that Absol suffers from the same issue as it does. Its defo better than MAbsol XD

Sorry looking back at it I did misread. Now that I look at it it does have some more viability than Mega Absol, such as being able to wall break defensive pokemon such as Mega slower, which Absol does quite struggle with. I still think they both are quite frail and can not handle the hyper offense teams that are running around the ladder, but they are definitely fun mega's to experiment with :).

 

[Sablenite]

Why are you giving Absol no love? The great ability with great coverage and utility and it gets superpower, play rough, fire blast, ice beam, and thunderbolt as coverage with the manditory sucker punch and knock off. It can even run WoW or Pursuit.
...Not to mention it gets magic bounce lets it be the perfect SD Talonflame partner

 

[psVoltage]

I've been playing around with crawdaunt and its actually not bad at all. While it completely shuts down a portion of fat teams, its not horrid against offence. It's the same as band azumaril, but with a stronger aqua jet and a dark stab. It also gets an overall more useful boosting move in SD to either outright kill something or at least dent it. If you are feeling cheeky go with blizzard in the last slot. (Shout outs to lefties) This lets you kill tankchomps who come in to stop you, and I guess lando but who's switching into you

calc

4 SpA Life Orb Crawdaunt Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 437-515 (104 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[bluegrass]

On that note, are there any other low-ranked/unranked mons anybody's been having notable success with?

+

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 80 Atk / 192 SpA / 232 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick

Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Power-Up Punch/Ice Punch

Since everyone is talking about Dark types I want to throw out this fun core. It's not like anyone has had notable success with Zoroark, but this core is pretty fun to use and the introduction of Sludge Bomb to Zoroark's movepool over the summer has made Zoroark usable in OU, mainly because he isn't a free switch in to Clefable anymore. Mega Lopunny forces a lot of switches between Fake Out and her blazing speed stat, and this compliments Zoroark's Illusion perfectly. Dark Pulse hits all of Lopunny's counters for huge damage, paving the way for Lop to clean.

196 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 361-429 (91.6 - 108.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
196 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 207-243 (61.9 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
196 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 185-218 (48.4 - 57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
196 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable: 211-250 (53.5 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
196 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Garchomp: 164-192 (39 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
196 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 112 SpD Hippowdon: 175-208 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
196 SpA Life Orb Zoroark Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 153-183 (44.4 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Zoroark's EVs let him outspeed Jolly Garchomp since running 252 speed ties with base Manectric and Mega Pinsir, who aren't really worth the effort. 80 atk EVs guarantees the OHKO on Latios w/ Sucker Punch. The rest is dumped into SpAtk to hit as hard as possible. I prefer Dark Pulse over Night Daze because the 20% flinch rate comes into play more than the accuracy drop from ND, considering your opponent is still has pretty good accuracy after one drop, but it's up to you since Night Daze has 5 extra power. You can run a full special set with flamethrower and focus blast for more power, but Zoroark really misses having Sucker Punch.

Ice Punch is slashed because Zoroark has trouble breaking through Hippo and Chomp, and he can't touch Chesnaught outside of flamethrower. Obviously this core fits in with offensive teams. Zoroark adds almost no defensive synergy to the team outside of a psychic immunity, and Talonflame rips this core apart so a check (or two) is needed on the team. Hazard removal is also required since Mega Lop only takes 6% damage from SR, effectively ruining Zoroark's Illusion. Luckily if you haven't mega evolved Lop you can still bluff with rocks up though.

Edit: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-325908019 had time to ladder and get a replay for you animals

 

[Martin]

Why are you giving Absol no love? The great ability with great coverage and utility and it gets superpower, play rough, fire blast, ice beam, and thunderbolt as coverage with the manditory sucker punch and knock off. It can even run WoW or Pursuit.
...Not to mention it gets magic bounce lets it be the perfect SD Talonflame partner

Absol is so insanely reliant on Sucker KOing something to actually mega v.s. anything that's even remotely offensive due to its frailty+low speed, and it is really hard to justify its use over any other Dark-types due to it being mistly outclassed for both of its sets.

 

[D_what]

Making another response to jordanthejq12's post just to say that AM's Xatu+Diancie core is pretty godly in this meta. With there being a general increase in the number of spikes stacking builds brought by the fall of gothstall, it is actually super anti-meta and can very easily alleviate a buttload of pressure and shift it onto the shoulders of your opponent.

Anybody have a link to a post/rmt with the core? Some guy on Reddit is asking if Xatu is in any way usable and it'd be nice to supply something a little more helpful than "Fuck, No".

 

[Martin]

Anybody have a link to a post/rmt with the core? Some guy on Reddit is asking if Xatu is in any way usable and it'd be nice to supply something a little more helpful than "Fuck, No".

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-good-cores.3549713/page-7#post-6569857

 

[Hostel]

Why are you giving Absol no love? The great ability with great coverage and utility and it gets superpower, play rough, fire blast, ice beam, and thunderbolt as coverage with the manditory sucker punch and knock off. It can even run WoW or Pursuit.
...Not to mention it gets magic bounce lets it be the perfect SD Talonflame partner

I think Mega Absol would be used more if it had a better ability for it then it would be used more. Mega Sableye can magic bounce for a team, Mega Absol can barely do it for himself. If he had something like Sheer Force, Moxie, Adaptability, or basically just any deceny offensive ability, it would have more use. As of right now, there are way better dark types like Weavile, who can hold a LO and do more damage than Absol, and Bisharp, who gets defiant and can also hold a LO. So, I would say Mega Absol's ability is the main thing holding it back imo. Similar to Mega Gallade with its garbage inner focus.

 

[Random Passerby]

I think Mega Absol would be used more if it had a better ability for it then it would be used more. Mega Sableye can magic bounce for a team, Mega Absol can barely do it for himself. If he had something like Sheer Force, Moxie, Adaptability, or basically just any deceny offensive ability, it would have more use. As of right now, there are way better dark types like Weavile, who can hold a LO and do more damage than Absol, and Bisharp, who gets defiant and can also hold a LO. So, I would say Mega Absol's ability is the main thing holding it back imo. Similar to Mega Gallade with its garbage inner focus.

But but Inner Focus lets it counter Mega Kangaskhan. - Game Freak logic

OK, just so this isn't a shitpost, the meta is absolutely (pun not intended) harsh on Mega Absol with all the Sand mons running around. It also dislikes the prevalence of Breloom and Azumarill. Being frail and not hitting as hard as the other Dark-types really seals its fate. Want a fast Dark-type? Use Weavile who is faster, can abuse dual STABs and hit harder due to LO. Want a wallbreaker? Hoopa-U is there for all your needs. Want a Sucker Punch abuser? Use Bisharp who hits harder, has dual STABs and deters Defog with Defiant. Want a Magic Bouncer? Mega Eye does it better due to being bulkier and having Recover. Add to the horrible Spe it has before Mega Evolving and Absol struggles to find a niche on teams (unless you hate Mega Sableye in which case just use Mega Diancie lol) so you want to use its Special movepool to lure stuff (Fire Blast / Ice Beam) as Swords Dance is better done by Weavile / Bisharp.

 

[Shuple]

But but Inner Focus lets it counter Mega Kangaskhan. - Game Freak logic

OK, just so this isn't a shitpost, the meta is absolutely (pun not intended) harsh on Mega Absol with all the Sand mons running around. It also dislikes the prevalence of Breloom and Azumarill. Being frail and not hitting as hard as the other Dark-types really seals its fate. Want a fast Dark-type? Use Weavile who is faster, can abuse dual STABs and hit harder due to LO. Want a wallbreaker? Hoopa-U is there for all your needs. Want a Sucker Punch abuser? Use Bisharp who hits harder, has dual STABs and deters Defog with Defiant. Want a Magic Bouncer? Mega Eye does it better due to being bulkier and having Recover. Add to the horrible Spe it has before Mega Evolving and Absol struggles to find a niche on teams (unless you hate Mega Sableye in which case just use Mega Diancie lol) so you want to use its Special movepool to lure stuff (Fire Blast / Ice Beam) as Swords Dance is better done by Weavile / Bisharp.

Game Freak logic lol.

Just saying,(Mega-)Gallade can run Skill Swap to lure Mega-Sableye and Pixilate users,it is kinda gimmicky though and the loss of SD or a coverage move makes a big downfall on its viability.

 

[Hostel]

But but Inner Focus lets it counter Mega Kangaskhan. - Game Freak logic

OK, just so this isn't a shitpost, the meta is absolutely (pun not intended) harsh on Mega Absol with all the Sand mons running around. It also dislikes the prevalence of Breloom and Azumarill. Being frail and not hitting as hard as the other Dark-types really seals its fate. Want a fast Dark-type? Use Weavile who is faster, can abuse dual STABs and hit harder due to LO. Want a wallbreaker? Hoopa-U is there for all your needs. Want a Sucker Punch abuser? Use Bisharp who hits harder, has dual STABs and deters Defog with Defiant. Want a Magic Bouncer? Mega Eye does it better due to being bulkier and having Recover. Add to the horrible Spe it has before Mega Evolving and Absol struggles to find a niche on teams (unless you hate Mega Sableye in which case just use Mega Diancie lol) so you want to use its Special movepool to lure stuff (Fire Blast / Ice Beam) as Swords Dance is better done by Weavile / Bisharp.

When you say shitpost, you mean his original post? Because, I was only replying. I hate Absol. I see no reason to ever use it in OU ever. XD

 

[SketchUp]

He was talking about his own post. Hostel
Also, Skill Swap MGallade is awful because you still lose 1v1 vs Foul Play MSab and you have to let Psychic STAB or Knock Off go which is really bad coverage wise. If you run Skill Swap + 3 Attacks (so without SD) you missed the point behind using Skill Swap completely.

 

[Sechresse]

Hey has anybody been using mega metagross exceptionally these days? I've been trying to build with him lately and I've been pretty disappointed. I don't really remember having built a team that was weak to it in a long time as well. Any thoughts on how good he is right now and what sets are best in the current meta?

 

[Gawy]

Ive been thinking of trying out this set for mega Metagross:
item metagrossite
Nature: jolly
Ev spread: 252: attack, 252: speed
4: defense.
Moves: Hone claw, meteor mash, zen headbutt, Ice Punch.
I've giving it hone claws to get a boost in attack as well as its accuracy to use both stabs more efficiently and I also run it with ice Punch to hit the likes of landorus T plus 4. Would appreciate it if someone could share their views on this set.

 

[Shuple]

Ive been thinking of trying out this set for mega Metagross:
item metagrossite
Nature: jolly
Ev spread: 252: attack, 252: speed
4: defense.
Moves: Hone claw, meteor mash, zen headbutt, Ice Punch.
I've giving it hone claws to get a boost in attack as well as its accuracy to use both stabs more efficiently and I also run it with ice Punch to hit the likes of landorus T plus 4. Would appreciate it if someone could share their views on this set.

Tbh your set is pretty pale against almost all the Steel-Type pokemon,and Slowbro,even with a Magnezone to trapping Steel-Types,the duo fail to Heatran.

Though the concept of Hone Claw is interesting,an non-All-out-Attacker set really have big coverage problem on Mega Metagross,since Steel/Psychic is a just mediocre type combination on offensing.

If you run Grass Knot and have a Magnezone teammate,it may work out better against fully stall team,since Grass Knot and Meteor Mash KO both Unaware users in the OU metagame.

Landorus-T,Gliscor:Need Ice Punch

Water/Ground-Type,Slowbro,Hippowdon:Need Grass Knot

Ferrothorn:Need Hammer Arm

Jirachi,Victini,opposing Metagross:Need Earthquake.

Heatran:both above is okay but Hammer Arm is not guaranteed OHKO against some set

Rotom-W:Need Zen Headbutt

Skarmory,Mega Scizor:Fail totally,even HP Fire cannot 2HKO Skarmory and SpDef Mega Scizor without a SpAtk investment.

Move slots are really precious for Mega Metagross.

 

[Thatwackycruton]

Tbh your set is pretty pale against almost all the Steel-Type pokemon,and Slowbro,even with a Magnezone to trapping Steel-Types,the duo fail to Heatran.

Though the concept of Hone Claw is interesting,an non-All-out-Attacker set really have big coverage problem on Mega Metagross,since Steel/Psychic is a just mediocre type combination on offensing.

If you run Grass Knot and have a Magnezone teammate,it may work out better against fully stall team,since Grass Knot and Meteor Mash KO both Unaware users in the OU metagame.

Landorus-T,Gliscor:Need Ice Punch

Water/Ground-Type,Slowbro,Hippowdon:Need Grass Knot

Ferrothorn:Need Hammer Arm

Jirachi,Victini,opposing Metagross:Need Earthquake.

Heatran:both above is okay but Hammer Arm is not guaranteed OHKO against some set

Rotom-W:Need Zen Headbutt

Skarmory,Mega Scizor:Fail totally,even HP Fire cannot 2HKO Skarmory and SpDef Mega Scizor without a SpAtk investment.

Move slots are really precious for Mega Metagross.

Just a nitpick, meta can potentially beat skarm due to it roosting faster thanks to hammer arm's speed drops. Granted, they could just whirlwind...

 

[Martin]

Except cases of that actually happening are so rare that it is hardly a selling point - plus it makes Metagross completely exploitable for whatever comes in after due to it being at -3 speed after hitting the roosting Skarmory (unless it waits a turn to mega and then megas, in which case it is at -2 and still exploitable anyway). If it wants to beat Skarm it'll just run T-Punch rofl.

Also yeah setup gross is kinda meh 'cause it is so reliant on that last slot for coverage, priority or utility that in order for Agiligross, HoneGross or PuPGross to actually be worth using it needs the entire team supporting it.