I was so skeptical but it really seems like Mantine might have a solid place at the OU table. It counters shit like Keldeo and Zard Y and Volcanion, which is just unheard of.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Old Mon BST/Ability Change Discussion
- Thread starter DHR-107
- Start date
Liking the boosts to Qwilfish and Beartic especially but all appreciated. Glad to see Magcargo getting some love.
It's actually going to be such a good blanket special wall/check. You don't even HAVE to run Defog on it (and I hate running Defog on rock-weak things anyways, I think it's suboptimal because it puts way too much pressure on a defensive pokemon that's already often trying to wall things).
252+ SpA Choice Specs Volcanion Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 108-128 (28.8 - 34.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine in Sun: 116-137 (31 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Mantine: 103-122 (27.5 - 32.6%) -- 85.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 264-312 (70.5 - 83.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Mantine: 154-183 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Mantine: 172-203 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 187-220 (50 - 58.8%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 213-252 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
180 SpA Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 133-157 (35.5 - 41.9%) -- 87.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 137-162 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+5 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 192-226 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- 91.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 136-161 (36.3 - 43%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 148-175 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 213-252 (56.9 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Mantine: 175-208 (46.7 - 55.6%) -- 16% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Manectric Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Mantine: 316-376 (84.4 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
If you do not have (STAB) Electric Special attacks, you are almost certainly not taking this thing down 1v1.
If anyone cares, the first post is missing one mon: Mega Alakazam got a 10 point Special Defense buff.
Bleh, should have went to Defense, but it wasn't like it was gonna help survive phys priority or scarf moves much unless you're pairing it with Tapu Lele to cancel out the former and further boost its Psychic attacks.
I just realized that Alakazam is going to be an absolute monster under Psychic Terrain. High Special Attack and Speed, boosted STAB, immunity to Priority and passive damage, what could stop him? Don't even get me started with Mega Alakazam...
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 348-411 (54.2 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Maybe a Focus Sash wouldn't even be mandatory under those circumnstances... or maybe Psychic, for that matter.
252 SpA Mega Alakazam Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Psychic Terrain: 325-384 (50.6 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Last edited:
So... is it time for Mismagius to shine? It's the best Ground-immune ghost that can fill Gengar's role. It also gets buff to Mystical Fire (now has 75 BP).
In regards to Raikou, Entei and Suicune I am not that sure that Inner Focus should be considered completely a nerf, Inner Focus users like Crobat have good success on doubles because its ability to not care in the first turn against Fake Outs, true, if Psychic Terrain becomes prevalent having an immunity against Fake Out may seem redundant, but it also means that they can work well in terrain wars.
For example Raikou with Tapu Bulu could work pretty well in the future, Raikou basically gets no weaknesses and can set up screens, paralyze, snarl much more consistent, especially since Thundurus is somewhat nerfed because the prankster set could struggle in the future(a lot of pranksters could get affected actually), also Thundurus along with Zapdos cannot get advantage of Terrains.
Raikou also blends well with Tapu Koko, as everybody knows A-Raichu seems to be the BF with Tapu Koko because of its ability and Fake Out, but Tapu Koko being the fastest means it will be prompt to lose Terrain Wars, and Raikou could work better outside of Electric Terrain since it also works well with the other Terrains.
The somewhat sad part is that Volt Absorb Raikou would have been better in singles because almost every Elec mon rely on Thunderbolt as its stab, and could also work against Rotom-W Volt Switching, though my main concern is the lack of new tools, Raikou has a great stat distribution and a solid typing, sad its ability and movepool are limited by OU standards, still is a nice candidate for Z-Elec move because of its high speed, Mantine and Pelipper could make Elec mons become a little more popular, and as said previously Terrains means Zapdos and Thundurus could get less usage.
Suicune getting Sheer Cold means that is the most viable user of an OHKO move(because Sheer Cold has no immunities unlike Fissure and Horn Drill and having a good defensive type) in Battle Spot, is not consistent but this could be a nice addition, even if somewhat gimmicky,
also Suicune with Inner Focus can set Tailwinds more consistent, Pressure is better in general for PP Stalling in OU than Water Absorb utility, in fact Suicune is one of the if not the best user of Pressure, not that I did not want for it to get Magic Bounce or Unaware but at least it can take advantage of it.
Entei IMO is the one that really would have been better with its ability, because since it has no use in doubles it means Inner Focus doesnt do anything for it, and in singles Pressure also sucks for it.
Torkoal is definitely seeming to be better than Ninetales as a Drought user, in doubles its 20 base speed means it can work in Trick Room, especially since Eruption under Drought should do serious damage, its defense means it also doesnt die easily by priority when on Trick Room, it also gets Rapid Spin and SR so in general it seems a blessing for Sun teams because of its good role compression.
For example Raikou with Tapu Bulu could work pretty well in the future, Raikou basically gets no weaknesses and can set up screens, paralyze, snarl much more consistent, especially since Thundurus is somewhat nerfed because the prankster set could struggle in the future(a lot of pranksters could get affected actually), also Thundurus along with Zapdos cannot get advantage of Terrains.
Raikou also blends well with Tapu Koko, as everybody knows A-Raichu seems to be the BF with Tapu Koko because of its ability and Fake Out, but Tapu Koko being the fastest means it will be prompt to lose Terrain Wars, and Raikou could work better outside of Electric Terrain since it also works well with the other Terrains.
The somewhat sad part is that Volt Absorb Raikou would have been better in singles because almost every Elec mon rely on Thunderbolt as its stab, and could also work against Rotom-W Volt Switching, though my main concern is the lack of new tools, Raikou has a great stat distribution and a solid typing, sad its ability and movepool are limited by OU standards, still is a nice candidate for Z-Elec move because of its high speed, Mantine and Pelipper could make Elec mons become a little more popular, and as said previously Terrains means Zapdos and Thundurus could get less usage.
Suicune getting Sheer Cold means that is the most viable user of an OHKO move(because Sheer Cold has no immunities unlike Fissure and Horn Drill and having a good defensive type) in Battle Spot, is not consistent but this could be a nice addition, even if somewhat gimmicky,
also Suicune with Inner Focus can set Tailwinds more consistent, Pressure is better in general for PP Stalling in OU than Water Absorb utility, in fact Suicune is one of the if not the best user of Pressure, not that I did not want for it to get Magic Bounce or Unaware but at least it can take advantage of it.
Entei IMO is the one that really would have been better with its ability, because since it has no use in doubles it means Inner Focus doesnt do anything for it, and in singles Pressure also sucks for it.
Torkoal is definitely seeming to be better than Ninetales as a Drought user, in doubles its 20 base speed means it can work in Trick Room, especially since Eruption under Drought should do serious damage, its defense means it also doesnt die easily by priority when on Trick Room, it also gets Rapid Spin and SR so in general it seems a blessing for Sun teams because of its good role compression.
Last edited:
I can TOTALLY see a duggy suspect later on in the meta as it allows pokes like pheramosa and the likes to get past toxapec and such. Really appreciates the upgrade. doesn't have to really on choice band or reversal to get certain KO's.
It's almost like GameFreak doesn't quite understand Mega Gengar is hideously broken, not standard Gengar. So naturally they nerf standard Gengar in a way that doesn't really affect Mega Gengar...
Mega Gengar isn't broken in Game Freak's eyes. Doubles is their focus...
Though that leaves anyone wondering why only Mega Kangaskhan and Talonflame got any kind of nerf of the dominating Doubles Pokemon.
i know that you guys dont even remember this move: mud sport... it actually changed waay back on gen 5:
From bulbapedia: Mud Sport now reduces the base power of Electric-type moves by 67% on both sides in battle.
and guess who learns this... Mantine!
From bulbapedia: Mud Sport now reduces the base power of Electric-type moves by 67% on both sides in battle.
and guess who learns this... Mantine!
I'd like to know if there are any changes to the -ate abilities as well.
well, it may not be the best boost, but Delcatty deserved it
Gengar's "nerf" is really more for consistency with Levitate's new description. Many of the abilities have more detailed descriptions.
Levitate's old description: Gives full immunity to all Ground-type moves.
New description: By floating in the air, the Pokémon receives full immunity to all Ground-type moves.
Gengar isn't floating in the air, it's standing on the ground, so Levitate was removed from it for the sake of consistency.
Levitate's old description: Gives full immunity to all Ground-type moves.
New description: By floating in the air, the Pokémon receives full immunity to all Ground-type moves.
Gengar isn't floating in the air, it's standing on the ground, so Levitate was removed from it for the sake of consistency.
Well 3 of our levitate pokemon are visibly flying with wings, several pokemon visibly flying are still suspectable and an assortment of flying types aren't and don't fly AND gengar has been shown flying before so I dont think they really care about consistency
Idk what the whole story is, but I think if the entire Gengar line got Cursed Body, then they were trying to nerf him whereas if it's just Gengar, then they were just trying to make it more consistent/accurate.
It was just Gengar. Gastly and Haunter still have Levitate.
