Official MLB 2012 Season Thread

jrrrrrrr

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Sorry to say this and I don't mean to offend, but this right here is the typical Red Sox front-runner response. Sorry to say, but I'd prefer that people with your attitude hop off and never come back. We're the Red Sox, not the Yankees. Fans like you are whats ruining this teams immage in baseball.

You leave and give up. Us real fans will be here when you change your mind and start praising the people you now mock.
There's no polite way to say this, so: f u. In all likelihood I've been watching the Red Sox since before you were born. I watched them in the 90s when they were TERRIBLE. When Mo Frickin Vaughn was their best player. When they didn't even have a chance at the playoffs, we just had to sit around and hope scrubs like John Valentin and Scott Hatteberg would at least give us something to root for.

After 20+ years of rooting avidly for the Red Sox and watching at least 80% of their games in the last decade, I can honestly say this year's team is a complete embarrassment to everything they've stood for. They used to be the dirt-dogs, the lovable idiots who might not win every game but goddammit you knew they were going to play like hell.

Now what do we get? The best manager they've had in generations gets thrown out the door and slandered by ownership on the way out. The most popular GM they had took on tons of stupid contracts and leaves town before he has to feel their effects. We get John Lackey making $14 million for riding the bench and poisoning the clubhouse. Their "ace" Josh Beckett not giving a shit about his physical conditioning. Dustin Pedroia telling his manager how to hold a press conference in a threatening tone. Carl Crawford....collapsing. Bobby Valentine named head coach, not for baseball reasons. Now I am watching them blow 9 run leads to the Yankees at home and following it up by blowing leads to the Royals. You can't convince me that you're looking at this team and saying "yeah, those are role models I want to root for!" This team has a cancer and it's going to take a lot more than "real fans" like you to change it. I'm convinced that the team honestly believes nothing is wrong, which is the biggest problem.

I don't give a shit about this team's "immage in baseball", but thank you for the attempt at enlightenment. I only care about this team's "caring about baseball", which right now they don't. Obviously there are a handful of exceptions but as a whole you can not say this team is mentally or physically ready to contend for a World Series run. It's pretty hard to root for a team that is clearly not rooting for itself. Losing is not a problem for me. Not caring about losing is what bothers me, and this team does not care that they're losing. It seems like everyone on the team has some personal drama and it's really upsetting as a fan to see the main story not be about baseball anymore.

Seriously, you called the wrong person a pinkhat. Stop listening to idiotic talk radio and start watching and going to the games, maybe you'll see what real fans are saying rather than people who stir up shit for ad impressions. You may not have meant to offend, but you did.
 
If you think the nineties were terrible for the Red Sox I have no idea what shit you were smoking. Are you asking for a championship every year? In a sport that out of any is most determined by luck? It's right to feel disappointed about a team, every sports fan has that right, but don't blow these things out of proportion.

How badly do you think the Red Sox will do? I'm curious to see, and we'll see how it turns out at the end.
 
Know what's been frustrating? Watching the Reds since the early 90's. And then we got that playoff bid...only to be swept and have a no hitter thrown against us. >_>
 

jrrrrrrr

wubwubwub
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If you think the nineties were terrible for the Red Sox I have no idea what shit you were smoking. Are you asking for a championship every year? In a sport that out of any is most determined by luck? It's right to feel disappointed about a team, every sports fan has that right, but don't blow these things out of proportion.
Not being in contention and getting swept out of the playoffs when they did make it, and constantly being in "rebuilding mode" is pretty bad to me. Playoff losing streaks that make the New York Knicks seem passable. They also tried to get rid of Fenway Park. They were notorious for being cheap as all hell until they reached out for Manny. It was not a good time for being a Red Sox fan. But at least the main stories were about baseball.

How badly do you think the Red Sox will do? I'm curious to see, and we'll see how it turns out at the end.
I'm expecting them to somewhat turn it around and compete for the second wild card slot. If they compete for the best record in the league like they were around August of last year I will be stunned.
 
Not being in contention and getting swept out of the playoffs when they did make it, and constantly being in "rebuilding mode" is pretty bad to me. Playoff losing streaks that make the New York Knicks seem passable. They also tried to get rid of Fenway Park. They were notorious for being cheap as all hell until they reached out for Manny. It was not a good time for being a Red Sox fan. But at least the main stories were about baseball.



I'm expecting them to somewhat turn it around and compete for the second wild card slot. If they compete for the best record in the league like they were around August of last year I will be stunned.
Coming from a city of losing sports teams, thats something I'll never understand how you can be dissatisfied with. Hopefully I'll understand the idea of being able to expect great things out of a team soon enough.
 

tennisace

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Is it unreasonable to be mad when a team that is the second highest payroll in baseball is underperforming THIS badly? I mean look, if I was a Pirates fan or something and my team was shitty every year and ownership was doing nothing about it and wasn't attempting to sign the big or even medium-big free agents and we perennially put out a loser, then you could brush it off and say "well maybe next year". However, Boston isn't like that. It isn't that we expect a championship every year, because we don't (well, I mean, I don't expect it but come on you're not a fan if you don't want your team to win). The problem right now is that the ownership is spending millions upon millions of dollars on a losing team, and the fans don't want to stomach that AND the fact that in order to even see their team, ticket prices are through the roof in order to pay for these stars. I think a Fenway Frank and a soda will cost you like 10 dollars, a beer is like 5 or something ridiculous. So we're not only getting to watch a shitty team after the previous success of this decade (after decades upon decades of incompetence I might add), but the fans are literally paying for this too.
 

jrrrrrrr

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Thanks for the backup tennisace. I think your post combined with this article explains why I am upset at the Red Sox. Highest ticket prices in the league, fourth highest payroll, but nobody seems to care that they're on a sinking ship. $60,000,000 of payroll goes on the DL over Spring Training and the team gets better? That's more than some entire teams spend. How is that a good sign? How can you say that you're satisfied paying for that? You know ticket prices aren't going down anytime soon during this MLB-record sellout streak.

$3.9 mil Andrew Bailey
$10 mil Daisuke Matsuzaka
$16 mil John Lackey
$20.3 mil Carl Crawford
$6 mil Bobby Jenks

not to mention the injuries to Ellsbury and Youkilis, but I didn't include them because they are some of the rare good apples that I like on the team.

Coming from a city of losing sports teams, thats something I'll never understand how you can be dissatisfied with. Hopefully I'll understand the idea of being able to expect great things out of a team soon enough.
I wasn't dissatisfied with this team, that was the point. Even when we couldn't expect even a playoff birth I still loved this team because they played the game right. They came out and said that they wanted to win and actually played like it. But now they don't even do that, so it's like double disappointment because we have such good expectations out of this
 
Let me tell you something real quick. I may not have been a Red Sox fan as long as you, as I was born in 1994 and have only started to watch them in the early 2000’s. I’ve never personally been to Fenway Park. Hell, I’ve never even been to New England as I live in Akron, Ohio. (So I don’t even have the chance to listen to Boston sports radio that you insist I am persuaded by.) Hell, the only reason I became a Red Sox fan is because my dad is a Yankee fan.

Even with these things, I can tell that I’m much more of a Red Sox fan than you. If you were a true Sox fan, you would know that all you are complaining about is meaningless. I’d love to have seen what you would have said or done had you had to live through No No Nannette, or Bucky Dent, or Billy Buckner. You say you struggled and supported the teams of the 1990s when we were nothing but a bunch of low cost players and terrible ownership. If you really did, you would see that this current problem that you have with the Sox is so minimal, considering all the things that we as fans of this franchise have gone through, that you shame the very morals that our fans the best fans in the game. You say how the Red Sox players used to be a bunch of dirt dogs who gave their heart and soul to the team every night. Well, I say what happened to the fans who gave their hearts and souls to this team year in and year out while getting nothing in return? The central core of this team has never been the players. It has always been the fans.

Most fans say that the 2004 championship was the best time in Red Sox history. Well, I think that it was the worst. Not because we won, but because of what it did to our fans. Since then, we as a nation have become a bunch of pompous, arrogant assholes. That championship ruined what made being a part of Red Sox nation so enjoyable in the past. We replaced our hopes and passion with unmeetable demands and selfish ambitions. We seem to demand greatness every inning of every game and when that doesn’t occur, we try and martyrize everyone and everything that we can. Have we forgotten what winning a championship meant so easily? It is not something that should be demanded year to year, but something special that we should be grateful to see occur in our lifetime. Have we become so power hungry that we become Yankee fans, unacceptable of any failure and willing to just buy players at any cost and rub in the faces of other fans that we are superior because of it? We as a fan base have lost the respect we once had in the baseball world. Not because of our success, but because of how we carry ourselves. Luke Scott is dead on with his comments about modern Red Sox fans. So is what Paps said about us not knowing anything about baseball. Our image as a franchise is ruined because of fans with your attitude toward our beloved club. You wonder where all the dirt dogs have went. Have you ever thought that most of them don’t want to have anything to do with us as we are now?

If you are really a true fan who watches the games and follows the team like you say you do, you would be able to understand our situation a bit better. Our starting pitching rotation is missing it’s should be 4 and 5 starters to injury. Josh Beckett has been pitching hurt since the start of the season until he couldn’t take it anymore his last start and needed time off. Clay Buchholz is obviously still hurt, but is playing through it. Our fans mock them for not having good numbers, but if they were to not play through it, we would deem them (like we deemed Ellsbury in ‘09) weak and not committed to the team. Our bullpen is missing its anchor in Andrew Bailey who got hurt in a freak accident by squeezing a shampoo bottle. Our back up closer Bard is trying to fill in for our injured starters (and doing a damn good job mind you) and our other guy Mark Melancon is in the minors dealing with a Rick Ankiel-esque meltdown without the complete loss of the strike zone. Bobby Jenks is dealing with a long time alcohol abuse problems which have dated back to his White Sox days and a freak back surgery accident. Our key long man Alfredo Aceves has become our defacto closer because no one else can do it. Matt Albers and Vicente Padilla have to move up three spots and are being over worked in roles they do not have the talent for. You don’t see them bitching or refusing to do their jobs. If you are looking for some dirt dogs, these are the guys. They are right in front of your eyes, yet you give them the most problems.
Next you have the lineup problems. Carl Crawford, who you say is a failure, is not to blame for his problems. The guy loves this game and devoted his entire heart to trying to get back to form after a disappointing and seemingly careless season filled with injuries and a lack of team support and team unity. The reason he is hurt now is because he pushed himself too hard in trying to atone for his failures last year. Yet we as a nation (I, sadly and also part of this at times) criticize him for this. I personally do it because I’ve counted on him and I’m mad that he is out for most of this season, but it’s unfair of me to place blame on him considering his intentions. It’s just another freak accident. We also lost Jacoby Ellsbury and Ryan Kalish to injury who after the Josh Reddick trade were set to be our opening day starting outfield. Kalish’s injury led us to sign Cody Ross and Ellsbury’s injury (along with Repko’s) led to a trade for Marlon Byrd. Crawford’s injury led to Ryan Sweeney and Run DMc’s platoon. All four of these guys should not be on this team right now, yet they are doing an outstanding job filling in under the unfortunate circumstances. Youkilis is hurt and Punto is a defense only guy, so Will Middlebrooks had to be rushed to the bigs to help fill in his spot in the lineup. Pedroia, Aviles and Ortiz have been everything we expected them to be and more. A-Gon is trying too hard and is putting too much pressure on himself to be the team's everyman.

This situation is one for the ages, as the sheer amount of star power and payroll on the DL is outstanding. Yet despite this, you EXPECT AND DEMAND that the Red Sox play like none of this even happened. And you blame Bobby V because he can’t make average talent players play like the allstars that they are being called on to replace. How the fuck can you justify that? I know injuries are no excuse for a team doing badly, but you must have no fucking room in your large head with your big ass ego to have room for any brains. This is your team. They are playing their hardest. They are hard pressed for talent and stretched beyond belief. If you actually watched the game last night, you would have known that it wasn’t Dan Bard being left in to long that the runs scored, it was the overuse of Matt Albers in the bullpen because no one else has the talent or the confidence to do those jobs. You can’t fault a guy who seemingly pitches everyday for making one mistake.

So I guess this is what I have to say. You say that you don’t care about the fans image, when we as a nation have literally become the most hated fans in baseball because of attitudes like yours. You say you have been a fan for longer than me, and while this is true, I am not only a more devoted fan but one who is of the Old RSN beliefs of not being a self-entitled prick and not giving up on this team no matter how hard it gets or how bad our team is. You say the team doesn’t care about baseball when they are not only shorthanded and injured, but when they care so much about the team to rush their recovery or play injured? You say the team does not care about winning or losing when they are beating themselves up more than any other club right now even with their circumstances. You say I should watch the games, when I’ve watched everyone from start to finish, win or lose. You say I shouldn’t be a puppet to the “experts” in the media when I follow my heart. You say I should listen to the fans who are not even fans at all, but spoiled bitches who must have their championship ring or they will throw a fix. You look too much at the negatives of this team and blindly ignore the positives and the wonders. Where is your praise for guys like Pedroia, Sweeney, Aviles or Ortiz who come up big in the face of adversity? What about guys like Marlon Byrd who is turning his career around, or Scott Atchison who pitches pretty much every single day? Or Felix Dubront who is making league minimum rip and confuse players on the Yankees making 30 times more than him? Lester pitching that game of his life against Jake Peavey? Or our prospects like Will Middlebrooks who is tearing the cover off the ball despite being rushed up due to injuries? It is these stories that should make you proud to be a Red Sox fan. Open your eyes, see the adversity we are going through, and root for the guys who refuse to give up. THIS is what it means to be a Red Sox fan. It is only through the bad times that allow us to realize how special and how meaningful the good times are. Unless this happens, we are no better than the damn Yankees and our championships lose their magic because they are fake.

Be mad or angry all you want. But if you can’t stand by your team and be a true fan like the generations before you, go be a pussy and fucking quit on this team now. I’ll be right here struggling with this team, win or lose, now and forever. And I’ll be all the more better for it.
 
Let me tell you something real quick. I may not have been a Red Sox fan as long as you, as I was born in 1994 and have only started to watch them in the early 2000’s. I’ve never personally been to Fenway Park. Hell, I’ve never even been to New England as I live in Akron, Ohio. (So I don’t even have the chance to listen to Boston sports radio that you insist I am persuaded by.) Hell, the only reason I became a Red Sox fan is because my dad is a Yankee fan.
Seriously this nice little intro saved me the trouble of reading the rest of your post as this one paragraph completely invalidated anything you said
 
Like I need your fucking apporval...



Edit: And just a retread on the fantasy thing, looked at my seasons pitching log, never had Cueto. I had and then released Homer Bailey though.
 

tennisace

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I think its understandable why a fan who watches the Red Sox on TV could be happy while a fan that lives in Mass. and wants to go to games would be pissed. If they're not careful they'll become the Redskins. Charging egregious prices because of the history of the team while the actual product is crap. And paying players who don't do anything outrageous amounts of money instead of building a team properly. Now the Sox are no where near as bad (I don't think they're tearing out seats to maintain their sellout streak lol) but I know it would make me sick if I was watching my team go from being on the verge of a dynasty to an overpriced failure. I remember reading an article about Royals fans being the happiest fans in any American sport because their park was nice and the price was fair for the product. I think Pirates fans are generally content too because they accept that they're basically a farm team for the teams with money. But PNC park is really nice.
 

biggie

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Buttered Toast:



But seriously, how can you defend a team who openly back talks their manager to the media? Or plays golf 2 days before skipping a scheduled start? Or any of the issues that plagued the team last year? Furthermore, how can you protect a manager who calls out a cornerstone of the team questioning his "heart"? Or a manager who STILL does appearances on radio shows in NY, even despite the outcry from die hard Red Sox fans after the first instance?

As an aside:
Fuck the Red Sox. I'm now a Cubs fan.
Come on, bruh!
 
I support the Red Sox because they are my team. They always will be my team. Thats how I am and thats how I expect others to be. I may be angry with them, I may not support what happens and go know I don't like it when things are bad. But that's not an excuse to walk away in a huff. If you call yourself a fan of a team only in the good times and walk out when things are bad, I'm going to call you out for what you are. Sorry if you don't like what I say, but that's the kind of person I am.

Things happen with baseball teams. There are things that happen to a ballclub durring the course of a season. You have to be realistic with your criticism and not be overpowered by the intense Boston sports media. When things go bad, people have a need and a desire to place blame on things, and the media in Boston looks to supply that in order to make a quick buck. No one knows the real story of what happened to Beckett. He may have felt fine when he was golfing and then aggrivated it durring baseball activities. You guys are kind of buying into the media without really thinking. Maybe I'm giving them too much of the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not about to believe something without all the facts.

If you've been following the stuff thats comming out about Oil Can Boyd, you would see how trivial playing golf and eating chicken are.
 

jrrrrrrr

wubwubwub
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I support the Red Sox because they are my team. They always will be my team. Thats how I am and thats how I expect others to be. I may be angry with them, I may not support what happens and go know I don't like it when things are bad. But that's not an excuse to walk away in a huff.
Ok, I get your reaction now. I'm not going to "walk away" from the Red Sox because they are having a few months of troubles. I'm not going to start rooting for the Rangers or Rays or whatever team. You said it in this quote, you might not always support what they do. Right now, I definitely don't support what they do. I'm not "walking away", I am voicing my opinion that things really suck right now. It costs way too much to go to games knowing that they are self-destructing, so why should I waste the money? Being "my team" or whatever isn't as important as the $80 minimum it costs to go when they act like this. Even WATCHING the games is getting upsetting because the Bruins and Celtics playoffs have been on since the start of the season. I hope this clarifies what I mean. Obsessive people like you who see a voice of doubt and immediately scream BLASPHEMY! YOURE NOT A REAL FAN! GET OUT! are way worse than pinkhat fans who just want to go and have fun for a night.
 
I'm glad that we can see each other’s viewpoints a little more clearly. I admit that I was a little quick to judge and label, but that was how it came off to me. As I tried to explain before, if you’re going to claim to be a fan, I expect you to be a fan through thick and thin. And it seemed to me from your original post that you were only out to root for them in the good times and the good times alone. I get that you are angry about the attitude of the club, which is very justified. It's where you mixed it with winning and losing that I had a problem with and where I lost your real meaning. It's just that I hate the fact that we are becoming too much like NYY fans.

The real problem with this team stems from the Front Office not our players. The whole Theo Compensation issue, the manager hiring crisis (where Larry blocked Ben's great pick of Dale Sveum and favoring the radical and controversial Ozzie Guillen-esque Bobby V in order to create a stir and sell tickets), and the continuing problems with the medical staff (misdiagnosing every injury that comes up and allowing our players to overwork themselves and make things worse.) THOSE are the things we should be mad at, not the fact that Josh Beckett’s “scandles” that are not even really all that big of a deal team wise anyways. If you want to talk about no respect for the game and winning, what Beckett did is not even remotely close to the shit pulled by Cole Hammels.

That's kind of all I have to say about things right now. Sorry that I kind of overstepped my bounds, and I'm glad that it was all kind of a misunderstanding.
 
My biggest problem with turning into the Yankees isn't that the fans expect to go to the playoffs (I mean, who doesn't want to win, really). It's that management is just trying to buy superstars instead of developing our talent. Sure, sometimes you have to sign a big player (Schilling, Pedro, Ortiz, for example), but other times we've sunk gigantic amounts of money into underperformers. And often, it's not just that they're having a bad year that's frustrating, it's that they're having a bad year, and we're paying them exorbitant amounts of money.

It's really no guarantee that new players will do well in Boston, which is why I'm frustrated that we'll shell out all that money for them, but won't pony up the money to resign players like Victor Martinez or Papelbon. This buying players from other teams thing is something that I've always attributed to the Yankees, and it bums me out.
 

biggie

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This whole notion of "at least we aren't ______, we don't buy our players!" is ridiculous. Every team buys players, that's an essential cornerstone of the game. Even teams like the Pirates buy players, even though the players that they buy are not necessarily the most in demand people around the league. You'll find homegrown and "bought" talent on every roster and to pretend like one team is superior because they do 'less' of it is absurd.
 
Boston's payroll is 173 million. Tampa Bay and Baltimore, currently the top two teams in the AL East, have a combined payroll of 145 million. You can't honestly be saying that the Red Sox spend the same amount of money as the average team.

I know that every team buys players, and that's not what I'm complaining about, but you can't make massive contracts the entire strategy behind your team building. We've got seven players making more than $10 million this year. There's only 4 teams in MLB that have more than 5 players making more than $10 million, and three of them have losing records right now (the Yankees being the exception).

edit: what I think I mean to say is, you can't just throw money at a problem and expect to have a good baseball team
 

Mr.E

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I want to punch everyone who ever insinuates that more $$$ doesn't make it significantly easier to win. Since MLB doesn't have a salary cap like every other major sport because they're god damn idiots, not being able to spend as much money as the competition is not necessarily the poorer team's fault. There's a reason the Yankees have won something like 25% of World Series played. Good management doesn't hurt, as some teams like the Cubs (big spenders, still terrible) and Rays (small market, excellent despite) know, but to act like being able to out-spend everyone else on all of baseball's best players doesn't mean anything is asinine.

Whether or not your players are "home-grown" is most irrelevant. The best part about these players is that they tend to be someone the fans can really latch onto as the face of the franchise, because they've been around since the beginning, and well usually it's just cheaper to maintain existing players than it is to sign big names off the free agent market. ;[
 
Mr.E, that's not what I'm trying to say either. Obviously having more money makes it easier to put together a good baseball team, but a higher-paid baseball team isn't necessarily a better one.
 

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