np: UU Stage 2.1 - You Are Invited

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For anyone that thinks galladite should be retested, I strongly disagree with that. The tier maybe a little different, but it's 110 speed tier is even better now that raikou and starmie, who were great offensive checks to it, are OU. Not to mention we lost celebi and Rachi, who could stomach a knock off and retaliate with a status move. Hippo was never a great answer to Megallade and that's moving to OU. Crobat is the only mon that comes to mind that can outspeed it and has a super effective STAB to take it out.

tl;dr: Keep mega super hero BL
 
For anyone that thinks galladite should be retested, I strongly disagree with that. The tier maybe a little different, but it's 110 speed tier is even better now that raikou and starmie, who were great offensive checks to it, are OU. Not to mention we lost celebi and Rachi, who could stomach a knock off and retaliate with a status move. Hippo was never a great answer to Megallade and that's moving to OU. Crobat is the only mon that comes to mind that can outspeed it and has a super effective STAB to take it out.

tl;dr: Keep mega super hero BL
You're right in that there's no point retesting it, but for out speeding with SE stab I think you are forgetting a pretty important S rank mon :p
 
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You're right in that there's no point retesting it, but for out speeding with SE stab I think you are forgetting a pretty important S rank mon :p
Mega dactyl my bad.

Edit: does knock off from Megallade do enough to threaten bulky psychics like cress and the jelly fetus.
 
after +2 yes gallade can, and those 2 mons cant do much back other than status it with t wave or hit it with weaker coverage moves.
 

ManOfMany

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Here's my thoughts on the potential drops:

Mamoswine:

This thing is gonna be an amazing threat, but bear with me when I say this Pokemon can potentially stay UU. I feel it will have a hard time with bulky Water-types as even with access to Freeze Dry it still loses to bulky Water-types not named Swampert as Suicune can set up Calm Minds against and beat it with STAB Scald while Vaporeon is only 4HKOed meaning it can Wish stall / Scald it. And without Superpower, Snorlax can set up Curses and RestTalk its way to victory. Without Stone Edge, it loses easily to Rotom-H, which is immune to its Ground-type STAB while resisting its Ice-type STAB. So while this thing may be a major threat, this thing suffers very badly from 4MSS as it wants to run Earthquake, Ice Shard, Ice-STAB, Superpower, Stone Edge, and Freeze Dry...but can only run 4 of those, leaving it walled by common Pokemon in UU.
You are definitely underestimating the power of Mamoswine's Earthquake.

Vaporeon can't switch in. I don't know why people always overestimate this thing's physical bulk.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon: 253-298 (56 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Suicune dislikes switching in because it is 3HKOed by earthquake and has unreliable recovery, although it beats it in a 1v1 situation.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 153-181 (37.8 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Snorlax can't switch in on earthquake either as it is 2HKOed, although it can set up and beat it in a 1v1 situation.
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Snorlax: 259-305 (52.1 - 61.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So yeah, this thing has barely any true counters in the tier, and some of the things that do counter it (cresselia, boltbeam Pory2) barely do any damage to it, so it can set up rocks and then switch out.

The thing stopping it from being broken IMO is that almost every offensive pokemon outspeeds it. However, just by scrolling down the list you will notice that half of these pokemon are weak to ice shard (hydreigon, salamence, roserade, suicune, mega dactyl, bat, pidgeot, krook, shaymin, nidoking)
 

kokoloko

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thats because ou has ttar, we don't. sun is almost definitely more broke as a standalone in uu cause shit like darm/entei which are already hard as fuck to tank become impossible to tank.

uu at least has viable water absorbers (vap, seismitoad) which leads me to another point being that rain boosts defensive attacks (scald) while sun doesn't, so getting walled in rain is more dangerous.

edit: obv this is all theorymon but in my ex-tier leader mind it makes sense.

here's a nice example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune in Sun: 217-256 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

while this happens:

4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan in Sun: 126-150 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

so in sun, darm can come in on cune and beat it 1v1. fun stuff.
 
seconding victini retest. With many more dragons and faster threats in the tier, i can see it being a good asset to offense as a wall breaker, while still being beaten by things like bulky mence etc.
 
Ive been laddering with a team that has rain dance swampert and its become a win condition in 40percent of my games. Coupled with the right suicune counter, I believe it can be the most devestating pokemon in the tier. Adding rain would just make the bulky waters more viable which wont make the tier any Healthier in diversity. Although I agreed woth Sam and do believe the tier is very balanced atm. The last thing we need is weather wars.
 
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I don't see anything as being ready for retesting. I do agree that Victini would be that if we were being liberal, but Victini is just the lesser evil out of the mons that we know have no place in the meta. The fact that Vic potentially sits as the least broken out of the unquestionably broken mons doesnt make it less broken in the actual context of the metagame. Team bulding rn is already constricted as it is, having to account for things like Fera, Cune, Aero, Pidge, Mence, Luc, Nido, Krook, Entei, there is no need to add more. Especially when you usually need more than one check/counter to Vic in order to beat its coverage. Keep Vic out, I'd much rather Freevile tbh.
 
I'm pretty new to ORAS UU (played a bit in the beginning of UU beta(?) last year and then died off) but when I was looking through the latest usage stats to get an understanding of what's used, I was really surprised at the big usage jumps between 1630 and 1760 on the ladder.

Here's the rises in 1760 that seemed most notable (anything 10+):
(+14)
(+37)
(+31)
(+11)
(+14)
(+14)
(+20)
(+21)
(+19)
(+22)
(+10)
(+15)
(+13)
Doublade and Abomasnow have massive usage spikes in 1760 (Doublade jumping a mighty +37 places and Aboma jumping +31). Is the rise in use of Doublade because of the rise of a lot of these mons like Aboma, Cress, Lax? Also Hera dropping again? And I guess Abomasnow is just a good anti-meta threat atm?

Also Helio is cool af glad to see it getting lots of love in UU all round

The drops are equally as interesting imo:
(-10)
(-16)
(-17)
(-15)
(-11)
(-21)
(-11)
(-16)
(-26)
(-11)
(-15)
(-10)
(-13)
Fire-types dropping a lot with Arcanine, Rotom-H and Darm all falling yet on the other hand, Entei actually rose to #1 in 1760. Galvantula has a big drop, so Sticky Web obviously not a popular strategy 1760+? Nidoqueen rising and Nidoking falling... there's probably something poetic about royalty in that.
(-14)
(-25)
(-22)
(-21)
These are dropping to RU next month iirc? So probably aren't too relevant here as they're obviously not used much on the whole ladder, but they're currently UU so I included them anyway.


I know this can be chalked up to there being less players higher on the ladder (so what the smaller group of players there do use net more usage %) or to the current metagame trends/flavour of the month, but I just found it interesting as someone new to ORAS UU how much disparity there is between 1630 and 1760 (the other tiers don't seem to have as many big changes as this or at least none as immediately attention-grabbing... or maybe I'm just blind.)

Forgive if post is trash, I just found it interesting and wanted to post about it :x
 

MZ

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Retesting Victini would just be bad IMO. The problem I see wih it, just like when it used to be in the tier, is the lack of mons stopping it defensively. You have some bulky waters and maybe P2 if it's scarf or something and defensive Mence, but that's about it. You have to rely on checking it offensively for the most part which is especially hard when you consider that it's a good scarfer with good coverage. It could also lure the bulky waters with shit like energy ball or CB bolt strike. It wouldn't be impossible to beat, but why retest unless it's gonna bring about a fun and healthy meta, which I can't see vic doing with its limited and lureable counters and stupid offensive presence.

Also fuck hippo rising I only got back into this tier because of sand

Edit: ok if it's scarfed a bunch of other things like cresselia and Umbreon can also stop it, but they don't like CB. Or you can just u-turn out. Plus scarf is still a godly set. Basically don't retest this
 

LeoLancaster

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I'm pretty new to ORAS UU (played a bit in the beginning of UU beta(?) last year and then died off) but when I was looking through the latest usage stats to get an understanding of what's used, I was really surprised at the big usage jumps between 1630 and 1760 on the ladder.

Here's the rises in 1760 that seemed most notable (anything 10+):
(+14)
(+37)
(+31)
(+11)
(+14)
(+14)
(+20)
(+21)
(+19)
(+22)
(+10)
(+15)
(+13)
Doublade and Abomasnow have massive usage spikes in 1760 (Doublade jumping a mighty +37 places and Aboma jumping +31). Is the rise in use of Doublade because of the rise of a lot of these mons like Aboma, Cress, Lax? Also Hera dropping again? And I guess Abomasnow is just a good anti-meta threat atm?

Also Helio is cool af glad to see it getting lots of love in UU all round

The drops are equally as interesting imo:
(-10)
(-16)
(-17)
(-15)
(-11)
(-21)
(-11)
(-16)
(-26)
(-11)
(-15)
(-10)
(-13)
Fire-types dropping a lot with Arcanine, Rotom-H and Darm all falling yet on the other hand, Entei actually rose to #1 in 1760. Galvantula has a big drop, so Sticky Web obviously not a popular strategy 1760+? Nidoqueen rising and Nidoking falling... there's probably something poetic about royalty in that.
(-14)
(-25)
(-22)
(-21)
These are dropping to RU next month iirc? So probably aren't too relevant here as they're obviously not used much on the whole ladder, but they're currently UU so I included them anyway.


I know this can be chalked up to there being less players higher on the ladder (so what the smaller group of players there do use net more usage %) or to the current metagame trends/flavour of the month, but I just found it interesting as someone new to ORAS UU how much disparity there is between 1630 and 1760 (the other tiers don't seem to have as many big changes as this or at least none as immediately attention-grabbing... or maybe I'm just blind.)

Forgive if post is trash, I just found it interesting and wanted to post about it :x
A lot of these are trends, as you say, but justified ones. For example, Entei rising while the other fire types are dropping is because Entei for the most part outclasses the other fire types (especially Darm/Arcanine, for Rotom-H there's also the fact that Rotom-C is really good rn). King dropping/Queen rising is again because Queen pretty much outclasses King. Pretty much everything else on the list has been getting better or worse, and as such is seeing accordingly more or less usage with better players. The only exceptions are Gligar, P2, Stoise, and Zam. Gligar is kinda bad rn, being setup bait for things like mence. Stoise isn't any worse than before, but Aerodactyl is easily the best mega rn and as such steals usage from Stoise just by virtue of being a Mega. P2 has emerged recently as a really good counter/check to a ton of offensive threats like Mence and Aero, but it's probably too recent to have an impact on ladder stats yet. Zam is another top threat, idk why it's lower in 1760.

So yeah, for the most part better players are using better pokemon.
 
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Thisbemyalt

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A lot of these are trends, as you say, but justified ones. For example, Entei rising while the other fire types are dropping is because Entei for the most part outclasses the other fire types (especially Darm/Arcanine, for Rotom-H there's also the fact that Rotom-C is really good rn). King dropping/Queen rising is again because Queen pretty much outclasses King. Pretty much everything else on the list has been getting better or worse, and as such is seeing accordingly more or less usage with better players. The only exceptions are Gligar, P2, Stoise, and Zam. Gligar is kinda bad rn, being setup bait for things like mence. Stoise isn't any worse than before, but Aerodactyl is easily the best mega rn and as such steals usage from Stoise just by virtue of being a Mega. P2 has emerged recently as a really good counter/check to a ton of offensive threats like Mence and Aero, but it's probably to recent to have an impact on ladder stats yet. Zam is another top threat, idk why it's lower in 1760.

So yeah, for the most part better players are using better pokemon.
I would say the reason it is lower is because on higher ladder more bulky playstyles are more common and zam is really only a top tier threat on HO in all honestly. Zam really needs safe switch ins and unless playing HO safe switch ins are not common enough for zam to be the best use of a team slot in most cases.
Edit: Post 100 n_n
 
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Started playing with Pangoro+ Tyrantrum again and I forgot how much fun it was to click a button and watch things die.

This metagame is pretty balanced right now but I would like to see one OU mon drop, preferrably in the name of Sylveon..please
 
Started playing with Pangoro+ Tyrantrum again and I forgot how much fun it was to click a button and watch things die.

This metagame is pretty balanced right now but I would like to see one OU mon drop, preferrably in the name of Sylveon..please
Sylveon would be a nightmare, barely anything can takes hit from Specs Sylveon on Hazard stack stall.
Example:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Mega Aggron: 129-152 (37.5 - 44.1%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
That's one of the Bulkiest steels around!
Fire types auto lose because SR
Roserade and Nidoqueen= Dead from 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 362-428 (111.7 - 132%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Nidoqueen: 204-240 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Black Sludge recovery
Also coupled with the fact it's not overly passive thanks to BP
Easily creep things like Pangoro and Non-max speed Tyrantrum
Stall is gonna be broke with Sylveon
i cant even
 
I just found it interesting as someone new to ORAS UU how much disparity there is between 1630 and 1760 (the other tiers don't seem to have as many big changes as this or at least none as immediately attention-grabbing... or maybe I'm just blind.)
Here are my experiences with some the pokemon you've mentioned:

I've been playing with Doublade recently and really been liking it. I guess the memo just hasn't trickled down to lower ladder yet that this thing is awesome. My guess is that the double-whammy of being RU by usage and NFE makes people overlook it. If anything, the fact that it so easily and reliably stops a Slurpuff sweep should make it even more popular in lower ladder. Doublade takes physical attacks like a champ, and late-game threatens to sweep a worn-down team with boosted Shadow Sneaks. More often than not I've found this thing paves the way for something else to sweep, weakening the last few links on the enemy team for a scarfer to clean up. I want to try it on more teams in the future, as I've been very happy with its performance so far.

As for Nidoking/Nidoqueen, in any meta one of them is going to overshadow the other due to just how similar they are. Need speed and mixed coverage? Nidoking's your man. Want bulk to live those tougher hits or set up hazards? Nidoqueen's the woman for the job. I don't think it's surprising that Nidoking is favored by lower ladder; he's way simpler to use, and there is the cool factor. Nidoqueen's ability to set spikes and live hits that Nidoking can't is what makes it favored, but both are really good special attackers.

For Arcanine, the big problem is that his offensive sets are outclassed by Entei and his defensive sets struggle from being SR weak and the fact is that fire just isn't a very good typing for a defensive role right now. EdgeQuake coverage is everywhere and both Feraligatr and Mega Swampert are brutally dangerous physical sweepers that Arcanine can't check effectively or at all due to type disadvantage. You also need to run either Toxic or Roar, otherwise other fire types just set up on you. Arcanine's offensive set is actually quite good; I find running intimidate to bluff a defensive set is really nice, and even once it's revealed as an offensive set that coverage remains unpredictable (fire, fighting, dark, electric, priority, and possibly even reliable recovery; I really like pulling a morning sun when my opponent is trying to let him die from recoil). If Entei weren't in the tier, I'm pretty sure Arcanine would take his mantle in a heartbeat. As it stands, though, Entei's stats are just higher across the board, and access to Sacred Fire seals the deal as our premier fire type.

As for Abomasnow, there are two big things going for it: Ice Shard and hard-hitting grass-type moves. Ice Shard is awesome in the UU meta, since almost all of our fastest threats are ice weak. It also breaks through bulky waters with ease using its grass STAB, fearing only the 30% chance of a scald burn. It can revenge all three of our S-rank pokemon, and can beat them if they switch in on a swords dance, and there are plenty of other things it beats too. Very much an anti-meta mon and cool to see it getting traction.

Galvantula is used for sticky web. That's it. That bulk is horrible, those offenses are mediocre, and that speed tier merely good. This thing would have fallen to RU ages ago if there were any competition at all for sticky web setters. Galvantula's fragility means he can usually only set up webs once or twice per game, so he basically only fits on HO teams that can keep up constant pressure and prevent hazard removal. I ran him back when I was a newbie, and looking back I feel like the little spider was trying but just couldn't keep up with the UU tier's power level. No surprise that he gets used in lower ladder, where reckless HO can sweep unprepared teams effortlessly, but really not good enough as you start working up the ladder.

Kingdra/Noivern are falling because there's a lot of competition for their roles. I've looked at them many times before, and on their own they look like fine pokemon... but Feraligatr is a better water-type dragon dancer, Swampert is a better rain sweeper, and I'll take a scarfed Salamence or Hydreigon over Noivern. We just have a lot of good dragon-types to pick from here in UU, so some decent ones are bound to fall to RU. Scrafty and Trevenant, though, have no place in the UU meta. They're just too easily KO'd by too many things, and other pokemon can threaten to sweep an entire enemy team with the amount of setup these guys need to simply function.

Edit: huh, that ended up WAY longer than I'd anticipated.
 
how would the council feel about retesting Volcarona anytime soon? I was just thinking about the fire moth and things have changed a bit. Mega Swampy and Gatr are both pretty prominent threats (with Rain Dance and Agility/DD/Aqua Jet), along with the UU staple of M-Aero and the rise of Snorlax once again. Salmence is one of the best checks to Moth around to come around recently, as well. This isn't a troll post, I just wanted to gauge what people would think about Volc.
 

Sam

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Volcarona was retested at the start of ORAS and found to be pretty much the worst thing ever.

EDIT: For a more serious replay, the rise of swamp and gatr means pretty much nothing in the context of Volc. It's most common coverage move is Giga Drain, and Gatr isn't going to do much to stop Volc from setting up. Aqua Jet won't KO, and Passho Berry is a perfectly viable set.
 
how would the council feel about retesting Volcarona anytime soon? I was just thinking about the fire moth and things have changed a bit. Mega Swampy and Gatr are both pretty prominent threats (with Rain Dance and Agility/DD/Aqua Jet), along with the UU staple of M-Aero and the rise of Snorlax once again. Salmence is one of the best checks to Moth around to come around recently, as well. This isn't a troll post, I just wanted to gauge what people would think about Volc.
I think it's actually a pretty good idea. Im not so sure how broken it would actually be in practice, considering it eats just about everything else alive. But considering how hostile the meta is to it right now, I think suspecting it would be ok
 

Kink

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Swamp is not a Volc counter, half of them carry giga, and offensive outspeeds swamps speed boost from rain dance if not using jolly after a +1.

Bowlcorona, in general, is an overpowered mon in relation to UU; it decimates stall, and the bulky set beats popular checks like Crobat.
 
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