Metagame NP: Stage 9 - Ex-Factor (Iron Thorns and Oricorio-Pom-Pom Banned)

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Given that Scrafty got a fairly high amount of support for action and Slowbro-G still being a contentious topic within the community, we'll be monitoring them both closely and revisiting them at some point this month. I'd like to get some more community feedback on those two mons in particular throughout the next week. Until then, enjoy the claw-less meta.
Lets put out of the way the obvious. They are both strong, no doubt about it.

That being said I think they are both important pices of the meta game for the better.

First :Slowbro-Galar: , this guy without the cheese and unsportsmanlike style of Quick Claw Nasty Plot and prey for RNG becomes the only viable Regenerator mon in a much healthier way. It will accommodate as an important defensive piece in teams to make safe pivots around wile not being totally passive capable of spreading Toxic and hitting with its STABs. But it's weakness to Ghost, Dark, Ground and U-turn make it live on the edge not making it overbearing to beat it.

Finally is a mon that requires skill to use and can have many different move sets adding variety for the tier even if its common mon.

Now to it's time to talk about :Scrafty: ... That's a much different conversation. :Scrafty: you either kill it fast or you are at risk of losing it all. Although IMO it's extremely predictable in what will do Bulk Up, Koff, Drain Punch, Iron Head/Poison Jab doesn't make any easier to stop. I'm using him with great success Intimidate makes easy to find entry points other thing that helps him is that status spread isn't common ATM ,he simply becomes worthless paralyzed or burned and Toxic puts a limit in his effectiveness as well. Yes he is really Tera depending but all you need is that one turn to turn the table on a would be answer to run with the game.
After all that said, he adds a lot of things to the meta that needs to be valued. He is one of the best answers for Scarf :Chandelure:, Scarf :Flygon:, :Slowbro-Galar:, :Overqwil: , :Iron Thorns:... Actually the lists goes on but the fact his presence make all those threats to be more careful and used with thought not only clicking buttons .

Honestly If I was to decide on what to do I'd go with Not Ban :Slowbro-Galar: and Suspect Test :Scrafty: I have a feeling that if teams were more preoccupied in facing it he would go from really strong to good.
 
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Lucario

A side must always be chosen
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I was kind of disappointed in the result of the previous voting slate. As someone who has been active within NU for a while, seeing only an item get banned when there is much more broken/unhealthy elements in the metagame makes me question the council for the first time in a long time. Not to mention that item was only used on one Pokemon that is unhealthy with and without said item. I'm writing this post to hopefully persuade some council members to be less conservative when voting ban. For one, all of NUBL will likely get unbanned (or looked at) in March, and some might be looked at in 2 weeks. Second of all, it's okay to ban something. If the meta desperately needed that Pokemon for whatever reason, then it can be unbanned. Not banning something that is broken/unhealthy harms a tier more than banning it and looking back at it in the near future. Let's get onto the Pokemon that need to get looked at for a ban.

:scrafty: :slowbro-galar: :registeel: :iron thorns: :thundurus:

:scrafty: Scrafty, everyone's favorite Poison-type that just does not want to die. It clicks Bulk Up, Drain Punch, and Knock Off while Resting every now and then, which can really only be exploited by forcing a Tera, Encore, and a strong Psychic-type move that isn't Psyshock. Scrafty may not be broken, but it is an unhealthy presence in both the builder and in-game. Even without setting up Scrafty can make a ton of progress thanks to Knock Off, crippling should-be-checks like Gligar, Sylveon, and Florges. Sylveon and Florges alongside Diancie should check Scrafty no problem, but Tera Poison or Steel allow it shrug off Moonblast, sometimes forcing Psychic, Earth Power, or Ground Tera Blast to get through it. This goes for Registeel as well, but I'm only going to say it here: Forcing a Tera on Scrafty doesn't matter when it always wants to Tera to get rid of a 4x weakness and gain an immunity to Toxic. 90% of the time Scrafty will use Tera and not be punished because it already KOd your Meloetta or Slowbro-G. All of this and I haven't even mentioned the Dragon Dance set. I haven't used it, but I know it's tough to fight because instead of living every hit it takes, it just outspeeds its opponents since it can get to 2x Speed with little consequence. Here's some replays of it in NUCL, 1, 2, 3

:slowbro-galar: Before I had to worry about this outspeeding any Pokemon 56% (or is it 44?) of the time. Now it's a static 30%! Guess what? That isn't even it's best set!!! Slowbro has been running setup sets with Nasty Plot and Calm Mind regardless of Quick Claw + Quick Draw. Instead it opts for Rocky Helmet + Regenerator, aka you get punished for pivoting, spinning, or knocking while your opponent can gain health back with no consequences. Not only that, but its natural Poison/Psychic typing is great defensively paired with its 95/95/70 bulk, add some HP EVs on top of that because it's so slow it can afford to be fat. Slowbro doesn't even need to use Tera to laugh at its checks. Is there a Gligar or Flygon in front of you? Click Surf of Ice Beam. Are you out sightseeing and happen to see a Registeel or Copperajah? Throw some flames at them, sit on IDPress Regi, and force Copperajah to take a lot of chip. This Pokemon really doesn't care about "statistics" because not only does it have QCQD, its Sludge Bomb seems to Poison 96% of the time, not sure why though. Hey look, I've got some NUCL replays of this demon 1 and 2 as well as some from NU Circuit Playoff with 1, 2, and 3.

:registeel: I love when my only true check is called the Ghost-type, a type that is exploitable thanks to its weakness to Knock Off. Iron Defense + Body Press (and sometimes even Amnesia) causes this lightweight Steel-type to take 2% (rounded up!) from your super effective move. It can even use Tera Dragon or Fairy to no longer care about the one Ghosy-type that exists in the tier. Registeel is a Pokemon I think people like having around, which is why they don't want it banned. It is NU's first fat Steel-type since Bronzong in SS. It can freely use Tera because it just doesn't care about anything. It sets up, maybe Rests once or twice, and sweeps you. I really enjoy using it, but it needs to go, the haters were right. It seems like everyone is prepping hard for it in NUCL and Circuit Playoffs because this is all I have for the former, with this as the one for the latter 1. It's still broken though.

:iron thorns: Just look at the replays, I'm not typing a long paragraph for NU's version of Iron Hands. 1, 2, 3, and 4.

:thundurus: This Pokemon has it all. Access to not one but 2 pivot moves, Knock Off, Nasty Plot, Prankster + Thunder Wave/Taunt, Defiant to stop whatever uses Defog (if we have any), Tera, and endless coverage in Sludge Wave/Blast, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Flash Cannon, Psychic, and Tera Blast (I'm forgetting something). Thundurus isn't the type to scream broken at first glance, it doesn't even have many replays of it being a nuisance. But as we all know from Zoroark in previous iterations of this gen, it really is unhealthy. Everyone used to adore Oricorio-Pom-Pom's typing since it's the same as Zapdos, and it was good. Thundurus is the exact same as Zapdos in SV. It pivots, it clicks a funny button, and it creates too much momentum. Nasty Plot sets are annoying to deal with because you never know its Tera type until it reveals it. It also has Goodra's coverage, allowing it to beat all of its checks. Umbreon and Registeel get zapped by Focus Blast. Vileplume dies to Psychic. Hell, even Knocking and using Grass Knot beats most Flygon since Thundurus's speed is so high. Its Speed tier is incredible, the only notable Pokemon that outspeed it are Salazzle and whatever you decide to throw a Scarf on. Previously I named this the best Pokemon in the tier thanks to its ability to outspeed Terrakion, but it has fallen off due to the changing meta. That doesn't mean this Pokemon isn't unhealthy. This is something that has been extremely under-explored and is something I fear gets used more. Here are the relevant replays I could find of it doing more than existing 1, 2, and 3.

I started writing this at 1:33 AM, it is now 3:14 AM. Hopefully nothing sounds confusing, I did read through to make sure it sounds right but I'm tired and can't properly focus. I'd really like to see more thoughts on these Pokemon, especially Iron Thorns and Thundurus which have both gone a little under the radar.
 
I was kind of disappointed in the result of the previous voting slate. As someone who has been active within NU for a while, seeing only an item get banned when there is much more broken/unhealthy elements in the metagame makes me question the council for the first time in a long time. Not to mention that item was only used on one Pokemon that is unhealthy with and without said item. I'm writing this post to hopefully persuade some council members to be less conservative when voting ban. For one, all of NUBL will likely get unbanned (or looked at) in March, and some might be looked at in 2 weeks. Second of all, it's okay to ban something. If the meta desperately needed that Pokemon for whatever reason, then it can be unbanned. Not banning something that is broken/unhealthy harms a tier more than banning it and looking back at it in the near future. Let's get onto the Pokemon that need to get looked at for a ban.

:scrafty: :slowbro-galar: :registeel: :iron thorns: :thundurus:

:scrafty: Scrafty, everyone's favorite Poison-type that just does not want to die. It clicks Bulk Up, Drain Punch, and Knock Off while Resting every now and then, which can really only be exploited by forcing a Tera, Encore, and a strong Psychic-type move that isn't Psyshock. Scrafty may not be broken, but it is an unhealthy presence in both the builder and in-game. Even without setting up Scrafty can make a ton of progress thanks to Knock Off, crippling should-be-checks like Gligar, Sylveon, and Florges. Sylveon and Florges alongside Diancie should check Scrafty no problem, but Tera Poison or Steel allow it shrug off Moonblast, sometimes forcing Psychic, Earth Power, or Ground Tera Blast to get through it. This goes for Registeel as well, but I'm only going to say it here: Forcing a Tera on Scrafty doesn't matter when it always wants to Tera to get rid of a 4x weakness and gain an immunity to Toxic. 90% of the time Scrafty will use Tera and not be punished because it already KOd your Meloetta or Slowbro-G. All of this and I haven't even mentioned the Dragon Dance set. I haven't used it, but I know it's tough to fight because instead of living every hit it takes, it just outspeeds its opponents since it can get to 2x Speed with little consequence. Here's some replays of it in NUCL, 1, 2, 3

:slowbro-galar: Before I had to worry about this outspeeding any Pokemon 56% (or is it 44?) of the time. Now it's a static 30%! Guess what? That isn't even it's best set!!! Slowbro has been running setup sets with Nasty Plot and Calm Mind regardless of Quick Claw + Quick Draw. Instead it opts for Rocky Helmet + Regenerator, aka you get punished for pivoting, spinning, or knocking while your opponent can gain health back with no consequences. Not only that, but its natural Poison/Psychic typing is great defensively paired with its 95/95/70 bulk, add some HP EVs on top of that because it's so slow it can afford to be fat. Slowbro doesn't even need to use Tera to laugh at its checks. Is there a Gligar or Flygon in front of you? Click Surf of Ice Beam. Are you out sightseeing and happen to see a Registeel or Copperajah? Throw some flames at them, sit on IDPress Regi, and force Copperajah to take a lot of chip. This Pokemon really doesn't care about "statistics" because not only does it have QCQD, its Sludge Bomb seems to Poison 96% of the time, not sure why though. Hey look, I've got some NUCL replays of this demon 1 and 2 as well as some from NU Circuit Playoff with 1, 2, and 3.

:registeel: I love when my only true check is called the Ghost-type, a type that is exploitable thanks to its weakness to Knock Off. Iron Defense + Body Press (and sometimes even Amnesia) causes this lightweight Steel-type to take 2% (rounded up!) from your super effective move. It can even use Tera Dragon or Fairy to no longer care about the one Ghosy-type that exists in the tier. Registeel is a Pokemon I think people like having around, which is why they don't want it banned. It is NU's first fat Steel-type since Bronzong in SS. It can freely use Tera because it just doesn't care about anything. It sets up, maybe Rests once or twice, and sweeps you. I really enjoy using it, but it needs to go, the haters were right. It seems like everyone is prepping hard for it in NUCL and Circuit Playoffs because this is all I have for the former, with this as the one for the latter 1. It's still broken though.

:iron thorns: Just look at the replays, I'm not typing a long paragraph for NU's version of Iron Hands. 1, 2, 3, and 4.

:thundurus: This Pokemon has it all. Access to not one but 2 pivot moves, Knock Off, Nasty Plot, Prankster + Thunder Wave/Taunt, Defiant to stop whatever uses Defog (if we have any), Tera, and endless coverage in Sludge Wave/Blast, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Flash Cannon, Psychic, and Tera Blast (I'm forgetting something). Thundurus isn't the type to scream broken at first glance, it doesn't even have many replays of it being a nuisance. But as we all know from Zoroark in previous iterations of this gen, it really is unhealthy. Everyone used to adore Oricorio-Pom-Pom's typing since it's the same as Zapdos, and it was good. Thundurus is the exact same as Zapdos in SV. It pivots, it clicks a funny button, and it creates too much momentum. Nasty Plot sets are annoying to deal with because you never know its Tera type until it reveals it. It also has Goodra's coverage, allowing it to beat all of its checks. Umbreon and Registeel get zapped by Focus Blast. Vileplume dies to Psychic. Hell, even Knocking and using Grass Knot beats most Flygon since Thundurus's speed is so high. Its Speed tier is incredible, the only notable Pokemon that outspeed it are Salazzle and whatever you decide to throw a Scarf on. Previously I named this the best Pokemon in the tier thanks to its ability to outspeed Terrakion, but it has fallen off due to the changing meta. That doesn't mean this Pokemon isn't unhealthy. This is something that has been extremely under-explored and is something I fear gets used more. Here are the relevant replays I could find of it doing more than existing 1, 2, and 3.

I started writing this at 1:33 AM, it is now 3:14 AM. Hopefully nothing sounds confusing, I did read through to make sure it sounds right but I'm tired and can't properly focus. I'd really like to see more thoughts on these Pokemon, especially Iron Thorns and Thundurus which have both gone a little under the radar.
would like to add to this that the only thing keeping registeel in line is glowbro. If (hopefully when) glowbro gets the ban hammer, registeel should be banned alongside it. No need to wait a week for it to get voted on the weekend after anyway
 

etern

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Hi everyone, here are the results for the final slate of the month! Thank you to Phantomistix and Dr. Phd. BJ for stepping in this week.



Scrafty and Iron Thorns have thus been banned from SV NU! Marty Kris

We're expecting a somewhat large tier shift next month, so expect more tiering action to develop once we see what drops down from RU. Also keep in mind that once we're hit by the gigantic DLC2 Shift in March we'll likely be re-voting on the entirety of NUBL one final time, so everything that we've banned this past month will have another chance to be reevaluated. Until then, let us know how you feel about the Scrafty and Iron Thorns-less meta, enjoy!
 
I've challenged myself to build 10 competent teams in NU before February and just wanted to talk about one mon that finds its way onto every team... :tauros-paldea-aqua:. Bulk up, choice band, and scarf set all make this mon super versatile. Even with zero investment intimidate allows you to be a switch into multiple threats like Heracross, Arcanine, and Overqwil. I'm not sure how else I can elaborate on how much I love this mon in NU rn.
 
LOSTS
Politoed moved from NUBL to RU
Terrakion moved from NUBL to RU
Overqwil moved from NU to RU

DOWN FROM RU
Basculegion moved from RU to NU
Decidueye-Hisui moved from RU to NU
Electivire moved from RU to NU
Exeggutor-Alola moved from RU to NU
Golurk moved from RU to NU
Grimmsnarl moved from RU to NU
Hitmonlee moved from RU to NU
Lilligant-Hisui moved from RU to NU
Lucario moved from RU to NU
Pawmot moved from RU to NU
Rampardos moved from RU to NU
Whimsicott moved from RU to NU

RISE FROM PU/ZU
Emboar moved from PUBL to NU
Registeel moved from PU to NU
Vileplume moved from PU to NU

DOWN TO PU
Toxicroak moved from NU to PUBL
Articuno-Galar moved from NU to PU
Bruxish moved from NU to PU
Hoopa moved from NU to PU
Lapras moved from NU to PU
Meganium moved from NU to PU
Ninetales moved from NU to PU
Oricorio-Pom-Pom moved from NU to PU
Regigigas moved from NU to PU
Rhydon moved from NU to PU
Sandslash moved from NU to PU
Scyther moved from NU to PU
Snorlax moved from NU to PU
Tauros-Paldea-Blaze moved from NU to PU
Toedscruel moved from NU to PU
Tornadus moved from NU to PU
Zoroark moved from NU to PU
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Aawin

whole lotta vibes in the city
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Initial thoughts of shifts inbound

:lilligant-hisui: - This mon screams uber broken to me not gonna lie. Hustle is one hell of an ability, coupled with strong STABs and good enough coverage to body defensive checks, as well as Victory Dance to boost its attack and speed to bonkers levels. Besides this, the fact that this mon has Chlorophyll as well and can easily run Adamant and nuke everything with Solar Blade…. I do not imagine this mon lasts long in the tier

:pawmot: - I think this mon is a great addition to the tier, but may be a tad too strong at initial glance. 115 attack and 105 speed is pretty damn nice, and again, with strong STABs in Close Combat, Double Shock (or Iron Fist Thunder Punch) and coverage to hit defensive answers to its stabs such as Ice Punch and Knock Off, this lil guy feels pretty low risk to use. It also has great support options such as Encore, Nuzzle, Volt Switch pivoting, and Revival Blessing, which could be pretty neat. Can see it maybe being problematic but overall just a very strong mon that has a lot going for it.

:lucario: - This feels kinda cracked. Great potential to run sets on either side of the spectrum with two setup options in Swords Dance and Nasty Plot, coverage, and more importantly, priority. SD Tera Normal with Extreme Speed feels sick nasty with it, but even Choiced sets have their merit I feel like too. I think the set diversity this mon provides will be a tad too much for our tier to handle, but I'm interested to see how it shakes out.

:basculegion: - Honestly, I'm not sure about what set will be the best for this fella. Adaptability hits like a truck, and Swift Swim allows it to not be as hindered by its middling speed stat. I think this will be a pretty nice mon on Rain for sure, and could see some Spikes builds being pretty strong with this. Doesn't have a good physical Ghost STAB, but I think Specs might not be horrendous either. Also has pivoting in Flip Turn in a tier where bulky Waters don't really exist. Also kinda neat that it blankets both notable Pauros forms.

:hitmonlee: - I expect Pokeslice to make a new terrain team with this demon. It gained SD this gen, which opens the door up for a lot of breaking power. It has a pretty decent speed tier and hits like a truck. Frail as hell on the physical side but I imagine that this mon is not as cookie cutter to bring down, especially with Psychic Terrain blocking priority, and Grassy Terrain allowing it to have a tad more survivability on the physical side. Has Rapid Spin as well, though I imagine it won't really run it over its coverage options. I personally would rather beat my defensive answers with Hitmonlee's decent coverage in Blaze Kick, Poison Jab, or Earthquake (namely for shit like Qwilfish if that rises back up in usage to blanket Hitmonlee) rather than compressing the roles and neutering my sweeping capabilities.

:golurk: - It lost Rock Polish this gen, but the combination of Poltergeist + Earthquake off of 124 base attack hits hella hard and reaches crazy levels with a Choice Band. Lurk also has deep options within its movepool to hit any potential defensive checks. This mon is definitely going to force more things to run Itemless.

:grimmsnarl: - IT'S BACK! Not much to say about it since technically it's not a new mon to this format, but I imagine it'll do what it did last time it was down here. Dishing out strong attacks off of a 120 base attack stat, pivoting with Parting Shot, and generally being a solid support for HO builds with Prankster screens.

:rampardos: - Ass

:electivire: - Got some new tools, namely Bulk Up, Knock Off, and Supercell Slam, but I still think it's too far gone and probably won't be good in practice. Looks fun on paper, but I am doubting the lad until I see results with it
 
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Alola-Exeggutor :exeggutor-alola: has to face a quite tough competition in terms of Dragon types in current NU, but I'm curious about 2 things:

1) Will it be able to troll the tier with its Custap Berry set?
2) Recalling Gen 8 with the demonic Eggy/Stakataka core, I wonder if it can still work as a Trick Room setter, as it can pivot with both Leaf Storm (see you later fairies) and Draco Meteor (RIP to Goodra that tries to catch the grass move).
The good thing of this Eject Pack set was that it dealt a lot of damage while bringing a mon that could snowball, by exploiting the weakened mon.
Unfort there's no Stakataka with Beast Boost. Maybe Glastrier :Glastrier: can be used, which is still a B rank mon, even if it's PU: trying to prevent its Chilling Neigh could be challenging, especially if the horse can get a sub, while you switch out.


Concerning the other drops: clearly some stuff has to prepare for the boot
 

Pokeslice

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I know the attention is most likely turning towards Hustle Victory Dance Lilligant-H, but I do think that this mon dropping is a good time to point out the totally viable and extremely potent playstyle that is Sun in this metagame.

:ninetales: - For a setter that doesn't provide the utility of Torkoal, it's hard to ask for something better than Ninetales. Besides the strong speed tier and automatic sun it provides, Ninetales has Encore, Healing Wish, and Memento, all of which add invaluable support to a Sun offense.

:espeon: - We finally have a form of hazard control that actually works on Sun!!!! The biggest issue I had with Sun in the past wasn't the lack of abusers, but the lack of proper utility to fill in a team. Espeon with Magic Bounce solves a lot of the issues I had with Sun builds, and it's a powerful abuser in its own right with Weather Ball and Morning Sun (Yawn was cool but lol). It's also a great E Button pivot, something I've seen across multiple different sun builds.

:Charizard: :Brute Bonnet: :Arcanine: :Chandelure: :Emboar: :exeggutor-alola: - I've tried or seen all of these but Emboar and Eggy-A, and this isn't near an exhaustive list, but these are just strong examples of powerful breakers that go well on Sun. All of these are boosted in some way, shape, or form in a way that helps them break past "checks" and destroy fatter cores under Sun. Charizard has been a favorite of mine for its ability to switch into EQ or U-Turn locked Flygon and with how disgusting the damage output is. Just do the calcs, you'll see. Also, Custap Eggy-A under Sun? That sounds so cool.

:typhlosion: :lilligant-hisui: :lilligant: :victreebel: :shiftry: :Vileplume: - All of these make for great examples of cleaners on Sun after your breakers soften up a team. Scarf Tera Fire Typhlosion with Eruption is just nuts and imo the best Sun mon, but the rest of these make for beyond dangerous threats. Oh, and Lilligant-H is so broken when it has access to a 125 BP move and the ability to run Adamant.

:Flygon: :gligar: :tsareena: : - I also wanted to add three examples of good utility options for Sun. All of these can pivot to add some momentum, while the two Ground-types also add some great important resistances/immunities and Tsar can Rapid Spin if Rocks somehow go up.

Threat List: :Arcanine: :chandelure: :Snorlax: - Basically the only three answers to Sun that you'll find consistent counterplay in. Flash Fire negates a lot of what Sun tries to do, and every Sun team should have a gameplan into both of them, while Spdef Thick Fat Snorlax seems to be common for some reason idk. Just about everything else gets blown back by Weather Ball/Eruption, especially resists like Flygon. It's also worth noting that Lead Lycanroc has seen a bunch of ladder use and it's super dangerous into Sun if used well.

Here's an example of a fun Sun team I've been using on ladder for a bit now. Shoutout Banned Deucer for originally making it I believe, and I've edited it a lot from that original skeleton. Let me know what you think! This is just one example of so many different ways this archetype can be used that I've seen on ladder or from friends.

:ninetales: :lilligant-hisui: :charizard: :typhlosion: :espeon: :brute bonnet:

another slight variation

:Ninetales: :lilligant-hisui: :charizard: :typhlosion: :espeon: :flygon:
 

Lucario

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I was planning on making a post on new drops, but there's something that has been ruling this tier for over a month now that needs some sort of action towards.

:sv/slowbro-galar:

Why has this stupid, fat, and slow of a Pokemon not been banned yet??? It's been on nearly every slate for the past month. It is the reason that Quick Claw is banned. We did not need to ban an item only one Pokemon uses to preserve said Pokemon, which happens to be broken without QC. Glowbro currently has 2 sets that can fit on every team structure: AV and PhysDef w/ Rocky Helmet. Neither set wants to die because it has Regenerator and Slack off. Pair that with Thunder Wave or Toxic and it's going to force switches and cripple its checks. Specs Melo? Get Thunder Waved. Flygon? Now I'm a Water- or Fairy-type that just clicks funny buttons. Overqwil was previously one of the better checks to Glowbro, but guess what? RU stole that shit so now we can't seem to break the dumb, poisonous... shellfish. Most teams are forced to run 2 or even 3 dedicated checks to it because not only can it run those 2 sets, it can run all of Psychic/Psyshock, Sludge Bomb, Surf, Flamethrower, and Ice Beam. Good luck using SpDef Mudsdale to beat it because it abuses Tera like nothing else in the tier. Going back to the start of my post, I asked "Why has [Glowbro] not been banned yet?" This is rhetorical because we all know why, but nobody wants to say it. NU is a really enjoyable tier most of the time, but this past month has been horrendous due to all of the slow bans. NU council seems to want to preserve more Pokemon rather than banning the obviously broken ones. This is ok, but when you think about it it makes little sense due to, as I mentioned in my previous post, everything is getting unbanned in March. Why can't we at least try to get to a stable meta, even if it's for a few weeks before we endure the chaos of March? Please ban this toxic Pokemon.

Before y'all decide to shitpost about me in your jerk, no, I am not making this post now because I lost to a Glowbro in nucl. I am making this post because something needs to be done about this and council being too hesitant to ban broken Pokemon. I'm not trying to bash council, I don't hate or think negatively of anyone on it. I (and others) would appreciate seeing more action being done, instead of voting dnb on everything, regardless of the slate.
 
:pawmot: - This cute lil guy Pawmot has been really fun in the games I've played with it since the drops, and saved me a lot. I've mainly been using Scarf on it because being able to outpace most scarfers in the tier is soo useful. The serotonin I felt when I outsped a Scarf Flygon and ohko'd it with Ice Punch was immense. CC and Iron Fist Thunder Punch for consistent stab. Double Shock could be fine over tpunch as well but felt more limiting on scarf since you need to tera for it to not be a free turn for the opponent. Also has pivoting in volt switch to help keep up momentum on shakier mus.
It seems like it has a lot of fun options though coverage and set wise. Also 3 usable abilties in Volt Absorb, Natural Cure, and Iron Fist.

Band seems like it could punch holes in some teams and has boosted priority in Mach Punch with it as well. Ice Punch on band lets you cleanly 2hko Plume (Effect Spore willing xd) which is great as it can normally tank some Ice Punches and heal back up on you. Knock Off is another great option as always.

I've seen some people using LO 3 attacks + Rest with Natural Cure, which sounds nice but while trying it, it always felt tough to even get an opportunity to even rest since Pawmot is quite frail. I'm sure its still good though just feels tougher to make effective.

Another set I was using was a boots set with 3 attacks and Nuzzle to help cripple things for a Band Golurk in the back. Tera Electric lets you spam Double Shock freely, CC for strong fighting stab, Ice Punch for grounds or ground teras, and the tera funnily boosting Nuzzle to 60 lets you deal decent damage while paralyzing threats. Not the intention but it could be handy lol.

Revival Blessing seems weird because it feels like it already has so many good options I haven't desired to use the move really, but I'm certain it could be used effectively on the right team and probably be quite scary, it just felt awkward for me personally.

Has even more options like Encore or maybe Bulk Up sets. This and Golurk are definitely my favorite drops and I've loved using it! <3
 

Rabia

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GP & NU Leader


Council held a vote on potential unbans, and with all of council voting, a 7/10 supermajority was needed for a Pokemon to be unbanned. As a result, Inteleon, Iron Thorns, and Scrafty are unbanned from NU! dhelmise or Marty for implementing

--

Council has been actively paying attention to people talking about Galarian Slowbro over the past few days---and before the tier shift. We will continue monitoring it, the Pokemon we just unbanned, and any new drops that appear overbearing over this week. In the meantime, keep posting about what you've been using and how it's been :)
 
:pawmot: - This cute lil guy Pawmot has been really fun in the games I've played with it since the drops, and saved me a lot. I've mainly been using Scarf on it because being able to outpace most scarfers in the tier is soo useful. The serotonin I felt when I outsped a Scarf Flygon and ohko'd it with Ice Punch was immense. CC and Iron Fist Thunder Punch for consistent stab. Double Shock could be fine over tpunch as well but felt more limiting on scarf since you need to tera for it to not be a free turn for the opponent. Also has pivoting in volt switch to help keep up momentum on shakier mus.
It seems like it has a lot of fun options though coverage and set wise. Also 3 usable abilties in Volt Absorb, Natural Cure, and Iron Fist.

Band seems like it could punch holes in some teams and has boosted priority in Mach Punch with it as well. Ice Punch on band lets you cleanly 2hko Plume (Effect Spore willing xd) which is great as it can normally tank some Ice Punches and heal back up on you. Knock Off is another great option as always.

I've seen some people using LO 3 attacks + Rest with Natural Cure, which sounds nice but while trying it, it always felt tough to even get an opportunity to even rest since Pawmot is quite frail. I'm sure its still good though just feels tougher to make effective.

Another set I was using was a boots set with 3 attacks and Nuzzle to help cripple things for a Band Golurk in the back. Tera Electric lets you spam Double Shock freely, CC for strong fighting stab, Ice Punch for grounds or ground teras, and the tera funnily boosting Nuzzle to 60 lets you deal decent damage while paralyzing threats. Not the intention but it could be handy lol.

Revival Blessing seems weird because it feels like it already has so many good options I haven't desired to use the move really, but I'm certain it could be used effectively on the right team and probably be quite scary, it just felt awkward for me personally.

Has even more options like Encore or maybe Bulk Up sets. This and Golurk are definitely my favorite drops and I've loved using it! <3
This thing can be a fantastic wallbreaker even without a band i've noticed. Being able to blow up copper, umbre, quilfish, and lugg with your stabs (120 base power moves btw) is massive. Ice punch like you mentioned can even beat your checks. If gligar or sandaconda were as dominating as they once were Pawmot would probably be a low b tier, but rn I think he's got a comfortable spot at the top.
 
This thing can be a fantastic wallbreaker even without a band i've noticed. Being able to blow up copper, umbre, quilfish, and lugg with your stabs (120 base power moves btw) is massive. Ice punch like you mentioned can even beat your checks. If gligar or sandaconda were as dominating as they once were Pawmot would probably be a low b tier, but rn I think he's got a comfortable spot at the top.
Pretty sure pawmot would just knock and. Potentially ice punch gar and sandaconda would just get outlasted especially natural cure rest. Would still be a + Mon honestly. Pawmot was top tier when hippo was good in UU.
 

etern

is a Community Leaderis a Top Tiering Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a defending SCL Championis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
NU Leader
Hi all, quick update to let you all know that we voted on Lilligant-Hisui today, as the NU Council deemed it to be the most egregious of the new drops due to the combination of it's incredibly strong Hustle sets, Victory Dance setup sweeper sets, and Chlorophyll Sun sets. Thanks to DugZa and Dr. Phd. BJ for voting on short notice.



Therefore, Lilligant-Hisui is banned from SV NU via absolute majority. Marty dhelmise

We'll be monitoring the tier for the next week and potentially conducting a larger vote this weekend, so stay tuned for that. Until then, let us know how you feel about the new drops in the meta without Lilligant-H around!
 
Does NU have a discord? Unlike other tiers I don't see one linked on the main page for it. Outside of my main tier in ubers this is probably the most interesting tier for me so would like to know :d
 
Giving current metagame thoughts.

Potentially problematic

:inteleon:
Back and still as good as ever. Limiting it offensively is more manageable, but the lack of a true bulky water type is still daunting. All the things that attempt to check it just get pivoted on and it near enough 2HKOs the whole meta. It does aid the metagame in some ways though as it helps limit the snowballing of the bulky setup mons in the tier, like Scrafty and Galarian Slowbro which is definitely a massive plus. Scary mon though, not something I enjoy seeing in preview at all.

:pawmot:
Probably the best mon out of all the drops. It's really difficult to wall because of Iron Fist boosting Ice Punch, meaning that walls such as Palossand and Mudsdale after a few rounds of hazards can easily be put in range of 2HKOs. Like Inteleon though, it can be managed offensively as there are many mons that outspeed it and its not the bulkiest either. Revival Blessing is also annoying but it's not really the main appeal of this mon in this particular tier, it's just really damn strong and fast. Not as difficult to manage as Inteleon but still really tedious.

:iron-thorns:
This one is a bit more of a hypothetical and less hands on experience but from the little I've seen of Iron Thorns, it's still doing the same braindead shit that it did before. DD on switch ->Tera -> DD again -> Kill everything. Only mitigating factor is that it only gets one chance to get the sweep because it needs the Booster Energy to OHKO a lot of mons even at +2, but idk just seems stupid.

Strong mons that aren't broken

:scrafty:
I've used this thing a lot and to be quite honest it's not THAT good. Good mon for sure but it's so weak that it typically needs 3 BUs before it even thinks about winning a game, and it's bulk is good but not amazing which offsets it to the point where I think it's pretty balanced. It is probably the biggest abuser of tera in this tier which understandably makes it a target for people to complain about, but it genuinely struggles in a lot of matchups because of lackluster speed and zero initial threat. Not even going to pretend like it's bad though, it can just steamroll certain matchups but not consistent enough to be in the category above. Also makes Umbreon 50x less annoying so pls don't ban :(

:slowbro-galar:
Still very good but I think it was hurt quite badly by some of the unbans and drops. Golurk, Inteleon and Scrafty are all really annoying for it, as the former two just blow it up with their STABs and the latter can use it as a setup opportunity. Regenerator stuff is still really good, as much like Scrafty it does not have to commit to setting up at a single point in the game; it will have many opportunities to do so. It may start running Surf a bit more for Golurk but that can leave it more vulnerable to the many excellent Steel types in the tier.

:lucario:
Strong setup sweeper for sure, but has negative bulk so relatively fine to manage. Tera Normal Extreme Speed is pretty cheap, but many teams have a Ghost type or at least a Tera Ghost user and if it fails to OHKO things, it's probably getting OHKOd back. Speed tier is good but not great as many mons in the tier outspeed it. Indeedee-M in particular is a nuisance as it denies Extreme Speed entirely. The prominence of Aqua Tauros certainly doesn't do Lucario any favours either, as it's unable to really break it, whereas Pawmot can threaten non Choice Scarf variants with Double Shock.

:chandelure:
Perhaps it's just me, but this thing feels mad constricting in the team builder. I often find myself defaulting to options such as Umbreon, Snorlax and Meloetta just because I need something that can deal with it. In game it is relatively fine to deal with it but that's because I am usually well prepared for it. It's surprisingly versatile in terms of moves too, between Calm Mind, Taunt, Will-O-Wisp, Substitute, Pain Split and Trick. Something to watch out for in a slower paced metagame.

Mons I personally enjoy using

:golurk:
Braindead, but in a good way. Really refreshing to have a mon where you don't have to think about shit and just click a button. Super fun to use for that reason and is also far more easy to contain compared to Inteleon due to the lower speed. Really hard to wall just by virtue of STAB combination and Fighting coverage. I won't be surprised if we start seeing mons going itemless because of it.

:meloetta:
This mon somehow sneaks it's way on to all of my teams. Honestly might make a VR post and nominate it to S rank because it's so damn splashable and does what it needs to do well. Both Choiced and AV sets are excellent and one of the best Chandelure answers we have. Super good mon.

I don't expect much tiering action this month as next month is probably the final big shift for NU and it'd be better to have everything available for use when the time comes, but I think most of the mons mentioned should be considered when building teams.
 
Last edited:

etern

is a Community Leaderis a Top Tiering Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a defending SCL Championis a Former Smogon Metagame Tournament Circuit Champion
NU Leader


Iron Thorns and Oricorio-Pom-Pom have been banned from SV NU via council slate! dhelmise Marty

We likely wont have too many more slates this month if any, as we're just a few short weeks away from getting rocked by the major DLC2 Shift, but we'll be staying vigilant regardless in case anything gets too out of hands. Let us know what you think of the bans and meta below!
 
Some quick thoughts on the bans:

Iron Thorns definitely needed to go, literally nothing has changed to make it any less effective in its role as either a HO lead or a DD sweeper. I know some people were arguing that Pom-Pom had fewer opportunities to set up with the more powerful offensive mons in the tier, but that doesn't really hold water when 1) there are a variety of ways to supplement Pom-Pom's survivability with terrain or screens or literally 5 other real or semi-real team styles that can boost its bulk and b) if you got Pom-Pom in on a defensive mon that can't touch it (and there were a good number of those), the offensive counterplay got kinda invalidated after a boost.

:Inteleon:
I'm not sure why this mon wasn't banned tbh. Look, ik there are a lot more mons capable of offensively checking this thing rn, but that was never the issue with Inteleon in the first place. The problem has always been the lack of defensive counterplay, and there are precisely zero new mons that defensively check this thing. As much as I wish with all of my heart and soul that Lanturn was a top mon in the tier, it isn't, and it's the only thing that can check Inteleon half decently over time without investing a Tera. Oh, but what abt all of the new offensive counterplay? Well, none of those mons switch in, so chances are that at worst Inteleon is trading one for one at worst. Oh, but Inteleon itself is super frail and tough to get in! Sure, but 1) nearly guaranteeing a one for one (barring a telegraphed Tera) is a pretty good baseline for a frail breaker and 2) let's be honest, switching in frail breakers has only gotten easier over time with the plethora of Voltturn users who happen to pair excellently with Inteleon, itself a U-turn user.

TLDR ban Inteleon, I get that we get nuked next month but that's no reason not to strive for the best possible balance for the less hectic month we have here.

One other thing:

:Slowbro-Galar:
I am shocked that this mon didn't even make it on the slate. Maybe having this mon around is nice for checking the Fighting types, but that is more indicative of unhealthy dynamics with some of the fighters in the tier imo, but that's a topic for later. Nothing has really changed abt how Glowbro operates, it just happens to be situationally more important given the plethora of fighters. In other news, like the one decent Poison/Dark we had capable of offensively and defensively checking/punishing Glowbro got stolen from us by RU, so ig I have to go back to having Scrafty or Snorlax on every team to not get fucked by this mon every game. Let's look at the list of mons that switch into Glowbro's STABs: we have Steel types (who get roasted by Flamethrower), Scrafty/Snorlax, and... Qwilfish-H and Skuntank? Sure, Tera is always an option, but that means you've invested your tera to check what is more than likely not an opponents sweeper but rather a part of their defensive core. I find this dynamic to be toxic, especially with there being no Overqwil anymore. Who knows, maybe I'm in the minority and it just turns out that I'm the only person in the tier not actively slapping Golurk/Scrafty on all of my teams. Anyways, I'm done ranting, thanks for reading and have a wonderful day!
 
Hi, im relatively new to the meta. how good is qwilfish in the meta and what does it do(its one favorite pokemon)
Questions like this should be asked here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/simple-questions-simple-answers.3717253/ but I'll answer anyway. The main role Qwilfish has is as a physically defensive Spikes setter and its best qualities are a good defensive typing as well as a pivoting move in Flip Turn, which can be used to enable breakers on your team by giving easy entry. It has many useful utility moves such as Haze, Toxic, Barb Barrage, Thunder Wave, Taunt, Pain Split and Destiny Bond that can be useful depending on the teams needs. An example set would be something like:

Qwilfish @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Pain Split
- Barb Barrage
- Flip Turn

In terms of viability it is pretty solid, but nothing crazy. Solid at what it does but has notable flaws in general such as a lack of longevity despite Pain Split and poor special bulk. Definitely still good though. Have fun with NU :)
 
Questions like this should be asked here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/simple-questions-simple-answers.3717253/ but I'll answer anyway. The main role Qwilfish has is as a physically defensive Spikes setter and its best qualities are a good defensive typing as well as a pivoting move in Flip Turn, which can be used to enable breakers on your team by giving easy entry. It has many useful utility moves such as Haze, Toxic, Barb Barrage, Thunder Wave, Taunt, Pain Split and Destiny Bond that can be useful depending on the teams needs. An example set would be something like:

Qwilfish @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Pain Split
- Barb Barrage
- Flip Turn

In terms of viability it is pretty solid, but nothing crazy. Solid at what it does but has notable flaws in general such as a lack of longevity despite Pain Split and poor special bulk. Definitely still good though. Have fun with NU :)
thanks, sorry about putting it here
 
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