np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)

[Eggbert]

That Azelf does look pretty powerful. If you like bulk and ease of setup more, NP Mew can run the same exact set but you sacrifice alot of speed for 100 / 100 / 100 defenses and aura sphere. The power loss isn't a big deal because you get the same KOs with fire blast. I've never used the Azelf but the mew was really effective (it beats Rotom / Glis / Rachi) so I guess something with that + speed and power should be effective too.

Crappy same typing but wobbuffet can get setup with encore.

 

[Raikaria]

I really want to test this bitch now because it failed me last gen, killing priority users and things like that is annoying yes, but I don't see how everyone is afraid of Thundurus when Azelf is not only faster but also have the same (and some more, but very uncommon) amount of counters '-'

1: Thunderus dosen't die to Scizor
2: Thunderus isn't Persuit Bait
3: Thunderus can mess up things with Priority Taunt/T-Wave
4: Thunderus benifits from weather, which Azelf does not.

Also, all of your calculations are based on Azelf being at +2. Thunderus's coverage [Electric is far superior to Psychic] and slightly better bulk, and a lot more resistances, as well as the threat of Prankster really helps Thunderus get his set-up.

Azelf isn't going to be switching into... more or less anything in OU, much less getting a +2 boost without losing 50%+ of it's HP.

 

[yee]

Azelf certainly has a nice speed tier for sweeping, but its revenged easily and hard to set up, making dual screens an ideal support tactic. If you can get behind screens, with a +2 boost and HP Fighting in your last slot, you're in a really good spot. Only Quagsire and extremely bulky Psychics are stopping you then.

 

[Spoook]

Well, one problem I see and that has been mentioned before is it's typing. we agree that dual screens would be beneficial, but multiple psychic types might be bad for a team, so who would you suggest? Personally i like Bronzong a lot as a screener, and it's additional psychic typing isn't bad at all. Are there even any (viable) non-psychic dual screeners?

 

[Stellar]

Virizion might be decent. It fairs pretty well against both dominant weathers and is fast enough/bulky enough to set up screens reliably.

 

[Spoook]

Yeah, I just read it this second in the Creative moveset thread :P

But hey, Virizon and Azelf have decent synergy. Predict a Crunch from ttar? Go virizion, justified boost! Though, you would have to watch out for Pursuit. Which is likely to come instead of Crunch...

 

[Curtains]

Well, one problem I see and that has been mentioned before is it's typing. we agree that dual screens would be beneficial, but multiple psychic types might be bad for a team, so who would you suggest? Personally i like Bronzong a lot as a screener, and it's additional psychic typing isn't bad at all. Are there even any (viable) non-psychic dual screeners?

Magnezone can come in on ferrothorn and set up screens and take it out at the same time. Virizion can come in on alot of water/electric attacks and set up with its decent speed.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I like to think of Azelf as a general sweeper; it can come in early-game and just generally ruin stuff so another teammate can sweep, or it can destroy the opposing team late-game with ease due to its base 115 Speed and immunity to Spikes. Sure, Thundurus can do this too, but Azelf has different tricks up its sleeve. This goes for Mew, too, except I like outrunning Thundurus.

Also, good suggestions for Dual Screen users, everybody. I'm tempted to use Azelf + Set Up sweeper once again.

 

[Eggbert]

Deoxys-s is the best dual screen user available. Decent bulk with investment, taunt / mirror coat, stealth rock, and of course the 180 base speed.

 

[CPrime]

Serperior is an underrated dual screener. 75/95/95 defenses aren't bad at all when you can outspeed a ton of stuff even when uninvested with that base 113 Speed. If you're in against a special attacker, throw up Light Screen first, and vice versa. Leech Seed is always nice, as well as Taunt, Toxic, Safeguard, Dragon Tail, Glare, or Leaf Storm if you want to slam something.

 

[Spoook]

Serperior is an underrated dual screener. 75/95/95 defenses aren't bad at all when you can outspeed a ton of stuff even when uninvested with that base 113 Speed. If you're in against a special attacker, throw up Light Screen first, and vice versa. Leech Seed is always nice, as well as Taunt, Toxic, Safeguard, Dragon Tail, Glare, or Leaf Storm if you want to slam something.

With Serperior, I like Glare/Sub/Coil/Dragon Tail better. I use that set along with Parashuffle Dragonite, it's hell for the opponent. I used Arbok before (no joke), and then I realized that Serperior did the same thing faster, bulkier and with slightly better typing.

 

[Woodchuck]

As for taking advantage of dual screens, DD Scrafty is another great pokemon as it's already bulky uninvested, the screens make it even bulkier, and you can easily get to +2 +2 and beyond with 2 DD's and Moxie under your belt.
Skarmory sucks though :/

 

[Eggbert]

I've been having alot of fun with Volcarona. Volca does really well under dual screens and it has very limited and uncommon counters while it sets up so so easily on stuff like Ferrothorn and Jirachi. Speaking of Jirachi it breaks the trite Roto / Glis / Rachi you see on every other team. Its, volcarona's, most common counter is Jellicent and only if it has toxic. The only trouble I've been having is the rapid spinner since the options are pretty limited but Excadrill is the best.

 

[Spoook]

How on earth is toxic going to help Jellicent against Jirachi?!

 

[CPrime]

I believe he's still talking about Volcarona and worded his post awkwardly. If so, how well does Volcarona like taking Specs Hydro Pumps from Rotom, if it so easily takes care of Jirachi/Gliscor/Rotom?

 

[Woodchuck]

252 SpAtk Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs 0 HP/4 +1 SpDef Volcarona: 53.05% - 62.7%
(this is under screens)
Since Volcarona can get to +2 on Rotom,
252 SpAtk Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs 0 HP/4 +2 SpDef Volcarona: 39.55% - 47.27%

 

[Eggbert]

It's not worded awkwardly, you just have to realize that "its" is referring to Volcarona. I'll edit that to clear it up. How does Rotom like taking a +1 Bug buzz from modest 135 base special attack??? (It OHKOs 112 Hp Rotom after SR) You aren't setting up on specs Rotom, which I just said in the first sentence of the post. You try and set up on the week steel types like Ferro.

 

[Charro]

1: Thunderus dosen't die to Scizor
2: Thunderus isn't Persuit Bait
3: Thunderus can mess up things with Priority Taunt/T-Wave
4: Thunderus benifits from weather, which Azelf does not.

Also, all of your calculations are based on Azelf being at +2. Thunderus's coverage [Electric is far superior to Psychic] and slightly better bulk, and a lot more resistances, as well as the threat of Prankster really helps Thunderus get his set-up.

Azelf isn't going to be switching into... more or less anything in OU, much less getting a +2 boost without losing 50%+ of it's HP.

1: Azelf doesn't die to Mamoswine
2: Azelf can wreck every single pursuit user
3: Azelf can use physical sets, and mess things with trick, set up rocks, screens
4: Azelf isn't fucked by stealth rock

I don't see your point, everything that you listed are very poor reasons of why Azelf doesn't work, I don't remember Thundurus OHKOing Jirachi without nasty plot either, and since when it can switch in into something?, stealth rock does 25 % to it and if say "Earthquake" well Azelf can do that too, you set up on the switch, not infront of a choice banded user or a Chansey (that's retarded, those things can fuck you with t-wave or toxic), why I'm explaining this?, it should be obvious, Thundurus isn't Lugia, the only way that it can set up is forcing something out, same for Azelf, your "slightly" more bulk is worthless if you're sr weak

 

[ToF]

Azelf is not a bad sweeper. To the person that said its Pursuit bait and Scizor bait and whatever, you do realize you can switch out right? And Azelf hits every Pursuiter hard with a Life Orb HP Fighting or Flamethrower. Azelf is definitely a dangerous Pokemon for stall teams because of its unpredictability, and caan severely dent common Sandstorm teams that rely on Excadrill to revenge everything. Azelf can flat out kill Gliscor, weakened Tyranitar, Terakkion, Celebi/Virizion, etc without any problems.

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Azelf is not a bad sweeper. To the person that said its Pursuit bait and Scizor bait and whatever, you do realize you can switch out right?

Um, switching out of Pursuit isn't going to help Azelf survive.

 

[PK Gaming]

Azelf is nasty (no pun intended) Its fast, hits hard and can wreck lategame. Totally agreeing ToF because if Ttar pursuit and Azelf stays in, it can lose. Hell, +2 HP fighting will outright OHKO Ttar's without significant SpD investment. Its also got a wicked movepool with things like GK, flamethrower and the like to throw off conventional checks.

Its pretty damn good. Nowhere near Thundurus good, but he's still pretty solid.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Correction: Azelf does 95% - 111.9% with +2 Hidden Power Fighting against standard 252 HP / 252 SpD Careful Tyranitar, which means that another light hit or Stealth Rock damage should guarantee that OHKO. Even then, there's that HUGE possibility of an OHKO. Right there.

This is why Latias, Latios, and Kingdra love it so much.

 

[alphatron]

It should be noted that Volcorona of any variant can set up on gliscor too.

 

[Spoook]

The thing that really differentiates Azelf from Thundurus is Prankster. Someone said setting up in front of Chansey/Blissey doesn't work, but that's why one of the more popular thundurus sets involves +1 priority subs. I'm pretty sure +2 thunder 2HKO's Bliss in the rain.

 

[haunter]

You don't need priority to set up a sub on Blissey. And no, you won't 2hko Bliss with a +2 thunder even if it runs no SpD evs (41.2% - 48.5%) unless you're running life orb but in this case between SR, substitute and LO you'll probably just live 2-3 turns in the best case. Also without focus blast you're walled by Ferrothorn, Gastrodon and basically everything immune to electric and at least neutral to ice.