np: Doubles Stage 3.5 — Mama Said Knock You Out

[finally]

But what about stuff that are losing their spot on the metagame? I almost never see TTar and Cresselia anymore, and they're both awesome mons. Same goes for Bisharp and Terrakion. I've also seen weather going down in usage, the last I saw a Rain team was in Mediocre Mons a few weeks ago. Support mons are going down in usage too, Top and Amoong are rare in the ladder, I almost never see them anymore too.

you usually won't see ttar except in tour play. the amount of weaknesses it compounds is usually too much for sustained successful ladder play. although deemed inferior, dd wp tyranitar is probably the most common one you will see used because of tyranitar's ability to take a hit, set up, resist brave bird and go ham.
Qazoo306 a good way to deal with special attackers is assault vest. the benefit of this item is that you do not need to switch (like intimidate) to activate it and you do not need to use a move to lower the stat (will o wisp). im sure you know the downside of av though (no protect)
Nollan pony is pretty good and i think viabilitys are wrong ;]. i think mega venusaur is not entirely as a result of needing a check to keldeo, but more a result of newer players experimenting with non-kanga megas. there is a stage of teambuilding where you want to use more than just the kangaroo, and i think multiple PS doubles users have reached that point simultaneously.

 

[Nollan]

Nollan pony is pretty good and i think viabilitys are wrong ;]. i think mega venusaur is not entirely as a result of needing a check to keldeo, but more a result of newer players experimenting with non-kanga megas. there is a stage of teambuilding where you want to use more than just the kangaroo, and i think multiple PS doubles users have reached that point simultaneously.[/quote]

This is true, but its worth noting with rain and keldeo rising in usage Venusaur has a much stronger spot in the metagame than it did when Talonflame and Charizard were pretty common.

Its also worth noting Mega DD TTar is a solid set as well, as well as Scarf Tyranitar. Its not as predictable as you may think it is.

Qazoo306 a good method (imo the best) of dealing with special attackers is Light Screen. I'd recommend you try it on Rotom-W or even a bulky Zapdos (among others). As an example of how strong it could potentially be, an AV Lando-T with Light Screen up can tank a LO boosted Hydro Pump from Ludicolo in the rain (yeah its AV, but that attack is absurdly strong when hitting for neutral damage and is super-effective in this case).

 

[Qazoo306]

Thanks Nollan, finally and roxer for the tips, but I meant how does the metagame handle those powerful special attackers? How has it changed to compensate for them?

 

[Roxer]

Thanks Nollan, finally and roxer for the tips, but I meant how does the metagame handle those powerful special attackers? How has it changed to compensate for them?

The metagame handles special
Attackers by the means we just listed, nothing has changed from gen5 > 6 (Besides AV) that helps dealing with them.

 

[Anty]

I have seen mega venusaur is more semi-stall ou styled teams. Usually Mega saur/Heatran/Bulky water type with other naturally bulky shit like aegislash or cresselia. These teams tend to have difficulties with set up sweeper + togekiss which is why i like to have a taunt user as well. These teams are attractive because its a nice step from ou to doubles, this gives it a familiar look to new players and they actually deal well with most threats (it would be a nice sample team). It can also beat more offensively based team easier, mainly because they are so good at stopping momentum which what offensive teams need. Despite this certain ou stall breakers do help a lot; sub kyub, mega herra and to an extent mega gardevior. Overall those teams are quite solid but do have flaws.

There definitely has been a difference in mega uses. Mega gengar hype is over, a lot less charizard-y. Now more kanga, venusaur and gardevior.

The meta is pretty stable but not dead and stale, as of now the only thing i dislike is the lack of sleep clause (no h8 pls) otherwise its a good meta :)

 

[piikaa]

Mixed Thundy with Taunt seems to take care of that Venu/Tran/Water quite easily, Tran can't take a SuperPower well, and the water Poke straight up dies, it's best to have something that can knock out Venusaur too, so I would use Zard-Y. So, in all Thundy-Zard-Bisharp can pretty much ruin that core. Overall, I think that the core itself needs work. So, I would use Gastrodon as the Bulky Water, so Venu can come in on any S-Beams, and I'd replace Heatran with Garchomp so that Zard can get ruined by Rock Slide. I think that's what's best for the 3 in general.

I have seen mega venusaur is more semi-stall ou styled teams. Usually Mega saur/Heatran/Bulky water type with other naturally bulky shit like aegislash or cresselia. These teams tend to have difficulties with set up sweeper + togekiss which is why i like to have a taunt user as well. These teams are attractive because its a nice step from ou to doubles, this gives it a familiar look to new players and they actually deal well with most threats (it would be a nice sample team). It can also beat more offensively based team easier, mainly because they are so good at stopping momentum which what offensive teams need. Despite this certain ou stall breakers do help a lot; sub kyub, mega herra and to an extent mega gardevior. Overall those teams are quite solid but do have flaws.

There definitely has been a difference in mega uses. Mega gengar hype is over, a lot less charizard-y. Now more kanga, venusaur and gardevior.

The meta is pretty stable but not dead and stale, as of now the only thing i dislike is the lack of sleep clause (no h8 pls) otherwise its a good meta :)

 

[Nollan]

Not much to say on giant plants but if I were to run MVenu, I'd probably pair it with a solid answer to Khan rather than a FWG core (this core could definitely work tho), as its job isn't to switch in on things that threaten its partners as much as it is to set up a winning endgame with it (shoutouts to Leech Seed). Being able to get rid of counters like Khan, Latios, Talonflame, and so on is the bigger priority in many (if not most) cases.

Moving on, I feel the meta atm is getting rather unprepared for Semi-TR teams these days. With things like Keldeo, Hydreigon, and Terrakion on the rise and things like Bisharp becoming less common it has an easier time now, especially since several teams I have seen seem to be opting only for Amoonguss (which isn't really true since Safeguard, Escavalier, Safety Goggles, etc) to counter TR builds.

Additionally, with sun getting less and less usage hail seems to be coming out of its jail cell a bit. Things like Scarf Kyurem-B can really put work in with hail support. Aegislash seems like an essential piece of these types of teams however, providing an answer to Terrakion (which these teams definitely hate) and also potentially providing Wide Guard support. I don't see hail being a huge thing like it was at the end of last generation, but it definitely could see some top level use here and there.

I'm also seeing some Garchomps nowadays (including Scarf variants), and not as many Lando-T, likely due to the fact things like Scarf Thundy-T are still on the rise to stop Lando. One thing that doesn't seem to be rising much that I was expecting to rise a bit is Mawile-Mega. It hits very hard, can work with or without TR support, and definitely benefits from the lack of CharYzard. Being able to beat Khan and Garde one on one is great for it, and Venusaur without Sleep Powder can't do much to it either (besides heal up via Synthesis or Leech Seed).

I'd say the meta is (as always) fairly balanced, tho I'm definitely torn on whether things like Sleep and Confusion are better in the metagame without restriction or not (I always lose to Swagger so anyone who uses it vs me can go die :p). Regardless, Defog + Contrary is more fun to use than either of those, jsyk ;)

 

[piikaa]

Well, with the rise of Hail, I say that Weather is becoming more and more popular with a lot of teams, but since Hail has Terrakion having field days, I say we should run Aegis w/ Wide Guard and Gardevoir. Considering Terra can't do anything outside of that. Semi-Room has become a likely threat, because some people won't know if you're running balance. Most things to spot are the fact that 3-4 Pokemon are TR. I'm pretty happy with Mawile being on the rise, considering I fall hard from OU once it was banned. It really doesn't mind Zard-Y much, once the Zard is down to about 60% and you predict right. Sleep Powder is literally stapled onto Venu in any battle, but Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain aren't doing much, and HP Fire is very rare. In my opinion the meta is very balanced, and things that soil it will get worked on...

Not much to say on giant plants but if I were to run MVenu, I'd probably pair it with a solid answer to Khan rather than a FWG core (this core could definitely work tho), as its job isn't to switch in on things that threaten its partners as much as it is to set up a winning endgame with it (shoutouts to Leech Seed). Being able to get rid of counters like Khan, Latios, Talonflame, and so on is the bigger priority in many (if not most) cases.

Moving on, I feel the meta atm is getting rather unprepared for Semi-TR teams these days. With things like Keldeo, Hydreigon, and Terrakion on the rise and things like Bisharp becoming less common it has an easier time now, especially since several teams I have seen seem to be opting only for Amoonguss (which isn't really true since Safeguard, Escavalier, Safety Goggles, etc) to counter TR builds.

Additionally, with sun getting less and less usage hail seems to be coming out of its jail cell a bit. Things like Scarf Kyurem-B can really put work in with hail support. Aegislash seems like an essential piece of these types of teams however, providing an answer to Terrakion (which these teams definitely hate) and also potentially providing Wide Guard support. I don't see hail being a huge thing like it was at the end of last generation, but it definitely could see some top level use here and there.

I'm also seeing some Garchomps nowadays (including Scarf variants), and not as many Lando-T, likely due to the fact things like Scarf Thundy-T are still on the rise to stop Lando. One thing that doesn't seem to be rising much that I was expecting to rise a bit is Mawile-Mega. It hits very hard, can work with or without TR support, and definitely benefits from the lack of CharYzard. Being able to beat Khan and Garde one on one is great for it, and Venusaur without Sleep Powder can't do much to it either (besides heal up via Synthesis or Leech Seed).

I'd say the meta is (as always) fairly balanced, tho I'm definitely torn on whether things like Sleep and Confusion are better in the metagame without restriction or not (I always lose to Swagger so anyone who uses it vs me can go die :p). Regardless, Defog + Contrary is more fun to use than either of those, jsyk ;)

 

[trc]

Mew is pretty good in this meta.

 

[qwerts]

Well, with the rise of Hail, I say that Weather is becoming more and more popular with a lot of teams, but since Hail has Terrakion having field days, I say we should run Aegis w/ Wide Guard and Gardevoir. Considering Terra can't do anything outside of that. Semi-Room has become a likely threat, because some people won't know if you're running balance. Most things to spot are the fact that 3-4 Pokemon are TR. I'm pretty happy with Mawile being on the rise, considering I fall hard from OU once it was banned. It really doesn't mind Zard-Y much, once the Zard is down to about 60% and you predict right. Sleep Powder is literally stapled onto Venu in any battle, but Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain aren't doing much, and HP Fire is very rare. In my opinion the meta is very balanced, and things that soil it will get worked on...

While there are some trends going on right now i agree completely that the meta is pretty balanced at the moment. Semi-room is prob the most common thing i've seen on the ladder and is pretty weak in my opinion. If anyone has a successful semi-room team i'd love to see it please. All the ones I've met are terrible and easily dealt with.

 

[Stratos]

While there are some trends going on right now i agree completely that the meta is pretty balanced at the moment. Semi-room is prob the most common thing i've seen on the ladder and is pretty weak in my opinion. If anyone has a successful semi-room team i'd love to see it please. All the ones I've met are terrible and easily dealt with.

hi im the guy who's thrashed u multiple times with semi room

 

[qwerts]

hi im the guy who's thrashed u multiple times with semi room

I dont think i've played you recently XD.

Pwne edit: twice within last month isn't recent enough for you?

Qwerty: ... how did you edit this?

Pwne edit: i'm a mod, bitch

 

[qsns]

something I've seen on the rise in a few successful teams (read:kale's) is Gothitelle. after se jun's success with it in the world championships, a lot of doubles players have started using it as a defensive trapper: it doesn't directly threaten like MGar does, but the first turn trapping and pretty decent bulk allow it for more opportunities for it to create favorable (usually 2v1, however) situations. its support move pool is great, packing things such as trick room, charm, and thunder wave. gothitelle is really a thing you need to build a team around, but when you do, it's highly rewarding.

i do think gothitelle will be a passing fad i.e. mega gengar. it's a great pokemon, i just think it'll fade out of the spotlight within the next month or two after the vgc world champ hype disappears.

 

[piikaa]

Gothitelle isn't going to be a passing fad, it's very useful as a defensive trapper and TR Setter, I doubt it'll be something that'll just vanish like Pachirisu. It can beat lots of threats 1v1..

something I've seen on the rise in a few successful teams (read:kale's) is Gothitelle. after se jun's success with it in the world championships, a lot of doubles players have started using it as a defensive trapper: it doesn't directly threaten like MGar does, but the first turn trapping and pretty decent bulk allow it for more opportunities for it to create favorable (usually 2v1, however) situations. its support move pool is great, packing things such as trick room, charm, and thunder wave. gothitelle is really a thing you need to build a team around, but when you do, it's highly rewarding.

i do think gothitelle will be a passing fad i.e. mega gengar. it's a great pokemon, i just think it'll fade out of the spotlight within the next month or two after the vgc world champ hype disappears.

 

[qsns]

Gothitelle isn't going to be a passing fad, it's very useful as a defensive trapper and TR Setter, I doubt it'll be something that'll just vanish like Pachirisu. It can beat lots of threats 1v1..

you misunderstand, i agree that pachirisu is bad. however, even though there was SO much hype in doubles surrounding mega gengar and how great trapping is, it faded into relative obscurity. also, if you're using gothitelle to beat things 1v1, you're using it wrong. it sets up favorable positions for the partner pokemon by setting up things such as trick room and tickle, and it rarely carries an attacking move. when gothitelle's in, it's basically a 2v1, but you have very favorable field conditions.

 

[piikaa]

That's not what I meant, Pachi can be good if used correctly, it has the bulk and support, I'm just saying that Gothitelle is not leaving the tier unlike Pachi. :/

you misunderstand, i agree that pachirisu is bad. however, even though there was SO much hype in doubles surrounding mega gengar and how great trapping is, it faded into relative obscurity. also, if you're using gothitelle to beat things 1v1, you're using it wrong. it sets up favorable positions for the partner pokemon by setting up things such as trick room and tickle, and it rarely carries an attacking move. when gothitelle's in, it's basically a 2v1, but you have very favorable field conditions.

 

[tofucocoa]

something I've seen on the rise in a few successful teams (read:kale's) is Gothitelle. after se jun's success with it in the world championships, a lot of doubles players have started using it as a defensive trapper: it doesn't directly threaten like MGar does, but the first turn trapping and pretty decent bulk allow it for more opportunities for it to create favorable (usually 2v1, however)

goth makes it easier to remove a certain threat for a mon in the back to execute an endgame. it does create favorable positions, but when goth traps something, it's explicitly because your opponent wants ONE of your mons dead (unless it's perish trap). in that sense, it's similar to how singles trapping works maybe?

thats how i use it anyway tpth. although it does make heat waving fire weaks a lot easier with char-y.

 

[Anty]

Mixed Thundy with Taunt seems to take care of that Venu/Tran/Water quite easily, Tran can't take a SuperPower well, and the water Poke straight up dies, it's best to have something that can knock out Venusaur too, so I would use Zard-Y. So, in all Thundy-Zard-Bisharp can pretty much ruin that core. Overall, I think that the core itself needs work. So, I would use Gastrodon as the Bulky Water, so Venu can come in on any S-Beams, and I'd replace Heatran with Garchomp so that Zard can get ruined by Rock Slide. I think that's what's best for the 3 in general.

Thundurus does not like that core at all, it dislikes taking heatwaves/sludge bombs; not that it does anything to megasaur in return. Thundurus does better vs offensive teams where prankster twave is vital, this core is bulky enough to take its hits and offensive enough to not give a shit about taunt. Also, in all of my doubles games i have never seen mixed thundurus with superpower + taunt doesnt affect that core more than any other. Th

I really dont think you know enough about those kind of venusaur teams/you dont know about mega venusaur. Bisharp gets outspeed and ohko'd by tran, all thund can do is hit the water type, chary doesnt even ohko saur with overheat, and what is bisharp doing?

This post should clear things up for you

 

[piikaa]

I've been seeing a whole lot of TR, as if it has had an increase in use, so I hatched an anti TR plan, I've been running a couple pokes that have TR so I can maybe cause some annoyance and resume battling with a normal arena, if you find anything wrong this, I'd love to know [:

 

[qwerts]

I've been seeing a whole lot of TR, as if it has had an increase in use, so I hatched an anti TR plan, I've been running a couple pokes that have TR so I can maybe cause some annoyance and resume battling with a normal arena, if you find anything wrong this, I'd love to know [:

I believe i played that team, did you use whimisi? It worked pretty well against my TR.

 

[piikaa]

Haha yes I did use Whimsi, I use it to make people think I run standard, but I'm running TR offense.

I believe i played that team, did you use whimisi? It worked pretty well against my TR.

 

[BlankZero]

Hi guys.

Semi TR is broke pls fix

I haven't lost using it in like 30 games and I quit like X months ago.

On a serious note, HI! What did I miss?

 

[piikaa]

Hi guys.

Semi TR is broke pls fix

I haven't lost using it in like 30 games and I quit like X months ago.

On a serious note, HI! What did I miss?

you can try my anti-tr strat :]

 

[Level 51]

OML BLANKZERO IS BACK HI BLANKZERO you didnt miss anything except my teams becoming even weirder than before

 

[piikaa]

Ok, let me get something off my chest. I've been seeing a lot of Ambipom. I don't know why people are using it, because it's really bad. It really can't do anything outside of Fake Out and U-Turn. So it pretty much gets shut down by Quick Guard users. It can't take hits either. If it's a cry for being creative, I don't approve of it.