Pokémon Machamp

[Impy]

I'm wondering if Assault Vest + No Guard could be useful in conjunction with Tailwind. A variety of good pokemon learn it now, most notably Talonflame, who can pass on Swords Dance altogether in favor of Tailwind if it has a Life Orb. It still kills things, it's just a matter of how much overkill you want to abuse. I think it'd make an effective partner for Machamp, who, with doubled speed, could function as a revenge killer for just a moment, or even just abusing Dynamic Punch for three turns. And with assault vest and max HP, it's pretty damn bulky on both ends, so it could feasibly stick around long enough to do it again.

Still not as good as Conkeldurr though.

 

[Machamp]

AV with Dynamic/KnockOff/Stone Nevermiss/Bullet Punch is running pretty well!
EVs with 252 Att and 258 split between HP and SpD

 

[blizzarddd]

AV with Dynamic/KnockOff/Stone Nevermiss/Bullet Punch is running pretty well!
EVs with 252 Att and 258 split between HP and SpD

interesting to look at this set compared to AV conk. conk has more HP, Atk, and Def, but machamp has better spD and no missing moves.

 

[LoDart210]

interesting to look at this set compared to AV conk. conk has more HP, Atk, and Def, but machamp has better spD and no missing moves.

Another thing to consider is that Machamp can run a more diverse and more powerful attacking moves.

Conk runs drain/Mach/ice punch and knock off.

Mach has 40 bp

Drain and ice punch are 75

And knock had 97.5 on the turn it hits items off.

While Machamp has:

Dynamic punch - 100

Stone edge - 100

Knock off - 97.5

Bullet punch - 40

 

[blizzarddd]

Another thing to consider is that Machamp can run a more diverse and more powerful attacking moves.

Conk runs drain/Mach/ice punch and knock off.

Mach has 40 bp

Drain and ice punch are 75

And knock had 97.5 on the turn it hits items off.

While Machamp has:

Dynamic punch - 100

Stone edge - 100

Knock off - 97.5

Bullet punch - 40

true. and bullet punch is huge, because conk can't do much to a fairy type switch in besides knock off the item

 

[LoDart210]

true. and bullet punch is huge, because conk can't do much to a fairy type switch in besides knock off the item

And with its higher special defense it can tank hits better I suppose.

I dunno. Conk is superior in bulk and survivability that's doubtless, but as for damage, I'd day Machamp edges it out

 

[dragonizzlenite]

Eh, I've been running a lot of Machamp in Gen 6 and can say without doubt that the best set for it to run is:

Machamp with Leftovers
Careful, No Guard
248 hp, 252 sp def, 4 def, 4 speed
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Dynamic Punch
-Knock Off

Don't underestimate Machamp's bulk. He can definitely take a Super Effective attack. You won't be beating KOing Gliscor with this set, but it's stronger overall by combining the Substitude and Bulk Up sets. In Gen 5 I would've recommended running 44 Speed to outpace Jellicent, but since she's not really a factor anymore, it isn't needed. I try to run this along with heavy paralysis and Wish support (Klefki, Togekiss) and am currently rated ~2300 with this.

 

[GarchompPit]

Eh, I've been running a lot of Machamp in Gen 6 and can say without doubt that the best set for it to run is:

Machamp with Leftovers
Careful, No Guard
248 hp, 252 sp def, 4 def, 4 speed
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Dynamic Punch
-Knock Off

Don't underestimate Machamp's bulk. He can definitely take a Super Effective attack. You won't be beating KOing Gliscor with this set, but it's stronger overall by combining the Substitude and Bulk Up sets. In Gen 5 I would've recommended running 44 Speed to outpace Jellicent, but since she's not really a factor anymore, it isn't needed. I try to run this along with heavy paralysis and Wish support (Klefki, Togekiss) and am currently rated ~2300 with this.

I have to say that this set is one of the few that machamp executes better than conk.. (More special bulk) But still conk has more overall HP stat..

 

[LoDart210]

Eh, I've been running a lot of Machamp in Gen 6 and can say without doubt that the best set for it to run is:

Machamp with Leftovers
Careful, No Guard
248 hp, 252 sp def, 4 def, 4 speed
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Dynamic Punch
-Knock Off

Don't underestimate Machamp's bulk. He can definitely take a Super Effective attack. You won't be beating KOing Gliscor with this set, but it's stronger overall by combining the Substitude and Bulk Up sets. In Gen 5 I would've recommended running 44 Speed to outpace Jellicent, but since she's not really a factor anymore, it isn't needed. I try to run this along with heavy paralysis and Wish support (Klefki, Togekiss) and am currently rated ~2300 with this.

This set looks good and I was messing around with the damage calculator and it seems like +3 is the least amount to set up till Machamp becomes comfortably tanky. Which isn't hard but isn't easy although I suppose the sub helps with that.

With your experience, would losing the sub and and giving him stone edge? With only knock off and dynamic punch, he seems very limited.

 

[dragonizzlenite]

This set looks good and I was messing around with the damage calculator and it seems like +3 is the least amount to set up till Machamp becomes comfortably tanky. Which isn't hard but isn't easy although I suppose the sub helps with that.

With your experience, would losing the sub and and giving him stone edge? With only knock off and dynamic punch, he seems very limited.

A damage calculator won't take into account the fact that you're probably behind a sub and have Dynamic Punch's 50% confusion rate. That's pretty much the crux of this set and what gives you ample opportunity to set up further.

 

[Az88]

Glad to see Machamp back in the OU tier. I haven't made this set yet but I'd like too and not sure how well it would work but I'm going to set mine up as:

Machamp with Assault Vest
Adamant with No Guard
252 Atk/252 Sp Def/ 4 HP
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

 

[LoDart210]

Glad to see Machamp back in the OU tier. I haven't made this set yet but I'd like too and not sure how well it would work but I'm going to set mine up as:

Machamp with Assault Vest
Adamant with No Guard
252 Atk/252 Sp Def/ 4 HP
- Dynamic Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

I think this might be a good standard to start playing off of. Vs punch and stone edge are interchangeable but I think stone edge's greater power and crit chance as well as no guard accuracy makes it the go to option unless you don't have a dragon killer

 

[Lord Shane]

Eh, I've been running a lot of Machamp in Gen 6 and can say without doubt that the best set for it to run is:

Machamp with Leftovers
Careful, No Guard
248 hp, 252 sp def, 4 def, 4 speed
-Substitute
-Bulk Up
-Dynamic Punch
-Knock Off

Don't underestimate Machamp's bulk. He can definitely take a Super Effective attack. You won't be beating KOing Gliscor with this set, but it's stronger overall by combining the Substitude and Bulk Up sets. In Gen 5 I would've recommended running 44 Speed to outpace Jellicent, but since she's not really a factor anymore, it isn't needed. I try to run this along with heavy paralysis and Wish support (Klefki, Togekiss) and am currently rated ~2300 with this.

This set is absolutely amazing, especially if you get up dual screen support! It makes breaking the substitute almost impossible until it wears off. A lot of the time I actually run this Machamp ends up sweeping most of my opponents team just due to the fact they can't break the sub.

 

[Chou Toshio]

And with its higher special defense it can tank hits better I suppose.

I dunno. Conk is superior in bulk and survivability that's doubtless, but as for damage, I'd day Machamp edges it out

I'm running AV Conk right now, and I often feel like Conk's too frail on the physical side (when using AV), despite having a lot more physical bulk than Machamp does. Also Drain Punch's synergy with AV is just soo good, I'd really miss it.

While Bullet Punch does hit fairies better, honestly Mach Punch is still the far superior priority move-- a 40 base power attack with no STAB and no boosting ability is pretty meh...

Also, let's not forget that Conk has 3 awesome abilities to choose from-- Guts taking out the fear of Burn/Poison, Iron Fist boosting its STAB attacks and Ice Punch, or Sheer Force making Ice Punch REALLY powerful (meh, but don't use it...).

I would have trouble justifying Machamp over Conk unless my team was really desperate for some powerful, reliable Rock coverage.

 

[alexwolf]

Bullet Punch is shit and gives no coverage at all against Fairy-types. Resisted DynamicPunch has 75 BP and super effective Bullet Punch 80 BP, which just shows how weak Bullet Punch is. You are way better off spamming Stone Edge vs Fairy-types, after you have used DynamicPunch on the switch of course. I would much rather user Ice Punch on the last slot, for Landorus-T and Gliscor.

 

[DarkPhoton]

Bullet Punch is shit and gives no coverage at all against Fairy-types. Resisted DynamicPunch has 75 BP and super effective Bullet Punch 80 BP, which just shows how weak Bullet Punch is. You are way better off spamming Stone Edge vs Fairy-types, after you have used DynamicPunch on the switch of course. I would much rather user Ice Punch on the last slot, for Landorus-T and Gliscor.

After using bullet punch on machamp when i've used a machamp without bullet punch i can really see where the strength in it lies though. Since its not common to use Choice Band / Life Orb on machamp for the damage output but instead have an item for bulk or recovery often I find the enemy left with some life after a dynamic punch or coverage move, and I have to say there are countless times that i have done a dynamic punch on an opponent that was faster and the using bullet punch to finish them off instead of risking them hitting me again through the confusion.

Machamp is slow enough as it is, even with Sticky Web / Tailwind support I find countless opportunities for machamp to use bullet punch. That's my findings anyway, and I while I agree with you alexwolf on the damage is pointless even with super effectiveness (which is why I didn't use a bullet punch machamp to start with) but when I start to use it I see plenty of opportunities for a priority move on a slow poke

 

[alexwolf]

If you don't like how easy Machamp is to outspeed, Sub is a much better option to use vs faster foes. Sub + DynamicPunch + Knock Off + Ice Punch / Stone Edge with Lefties is an ok set, and item removal + confusion can be very annoying to deal with, especially when coupled with Sub, as well as making Machamp as different from Conkeldurr as possible. AV Conk is just so better than AV Machamp, so you are better off trying out different sets if you want to make the most out of this muscular stone man.

 

[LoDart210]

I'm running AV Conk right now, and I often feel like Conk's too frail on the physical side (when using AV), despite having a lot more physical bulk than Machamp does. Also Drain Punch's synergy with AV is just soo good, I'd really miss it.

While Bullet Punch does hit fairies better, honestly Mach Punch is still the far superior priority move-- a 40 base power attack with no STAB and no boosting ability is pretty meh...

Also, let's not forget that Conk has 3 awesome abilities to choose from-- Guts taking out the fear of Burn/Poison, Iron Fist boosting its STAB attacks and Ice Punch, or Sheer Force making Ice Punch REALLY powerful (meh, but don't use it...).

I would have trouble justifying Machamp over Conk unless my team was really desperate for some powerful, reliable Rock coverage.

I'm not going to argue with you on that point XD

In fact earlier in the thread I made these exact same points.

Thing I really hate is that conk gets Mach punch and drain punch over champ, as well as better hp and def AND attack. That's a lot of stuff conk edges champ out on.

It doesn't help that conk has a more fruitful selection of abilities, from status absorbing guts to boosting its punching moves with iron fist and sheer force, which is rarely used but still a better option over steadfast.

All Machamp has is 100% accuracy cross chop/stone edge/ dynamic punch and better special bulk (I'm no number cruncher but 105/65 seems less bulky or equally bulky to 90/85 ) which certainly isn't bad but not enough to justify its use over conk, which sucks because Machamp is awesome.

What would be great is if this guy got a mega evolution. And kept no guard but gained some more bulk and attack (because the speed is abysmal as is and should be ignored)

 

[GarchompPit]

Because I see a lot of argue on what the is the best Pokemon between Conk and Machamp so I thought of making a comparison :]

(I am not factoring Sp. Attack LOL)

Stats:
Machamp:
HP: 90
Attack: 130
Defense: 80
Special Defense: 85
Speed: 55

(I am not factoring Sp. Attack LOL)

Conkeldurr:
HP: 105Attack: 140
Defense: 95
Special Defense: 65
Speed: 45

- Conkeldurr is obviously more offensive​

- (Bullet Punch from standard offensive Scizor (Not factoring Leftovers))
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Machamp: 195-229 (50.7 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 169-199 (40.8 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also Conkeldurr is more physically defensive..

- (Psychic from standard physically defensive Celebi (Not factoring Assault Vest))
0 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr: 272-324 (65.7 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Machamp: 222-264 (57.8 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Machamp seems to be more specially defensive

- Machamp is faster

Now on to the moves that each Pokemon gets:
Conkeldurr:
Drain Punch (Great STAB move (reliable and can recover HP)
Knock Off (A great move this gen and has pretty good coverage against ghost types)
Bulk Up (One of the best users of the moves (because of his decent bulk))
Earthquake (Deal with Aegislash)
Stone Edge (Coverage)
Mach Punch ( Great user of this move because of his enormous attack stat)
Elemental Punches (Great coverage)
Poison Jab (For fairy types if you want to)
Focus Punch (Bulk Up+Substitute and this=Deadly)


Machamp:
DynamicPunch (His ''signature'' move because of his well known ability, No Guard which makes the move to never miss)
Stone Edge (Another great move to have on Champ because of his ability and because he has No Guard as well)
Earthquake (Same reason as Conk)
Elemental Punches (Coverage)
Knock Off (Same reason as Conk (to deal with counters))
Bulk Up ( Imo a bit better user of the move because he is more bulky in the special side but he can't really abuse it with low speed and a not that good priority)
Bullet Punch (Don't take me wrong, steel is not that bad of an offensive type this gen but he doesn't get STAB on it like Conk does from Mach Punch)
Encore (Gimmicky but it might be effective (look at Primeape for example))
Poison Jab (For fairies)

Abilities:
Machamp:
Guts: Raises Attack stat by 50% if the user is statused (Not confused) (Imo Conk is a better user of this ability and Machamp already has a better ability)
No Guard: Makes every move of the user to be 100% accurate (so does the opponent's moves versus this Poekmon) (Here's where is at! 100% Accurate Dynamicpunch and Stone Edge)
Steadfast: Speed raises by one level every time the Pokémon flinches. (How 'bout no?)

Conkeldurr:

Guts: Raises Attack stat by 50% if the user is statused (Not confused) (Like I said above Conk is a better user of this ability because of him being more offensive and having Mach Punch)
Sheer Force: Moves with a secondary effect are increased in power by 33% but lose their secondary effect (Also another good ability, making Conk's elemental Punches and Rock Slide really powerfull)
Iron Fist: The power of punching moves is increased by 20%. (Another good ability for Conk. Making his Mach Punch, Drain Punch and Elemental Punches 20% more powerful is a huge plus)

So here you have it! I will leave up to you to make a conclusion :]



​

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[ColtCababa]

Generally, despite the scarce, if not significant, Speed difference, I believe Machamp may be more prone to being revenge killed due to the lack of STAB priority. Steel isn't a bad offensive type if opting it for STAB or coverage on Fairies, but the former isn't in Machamp's case, and Fairies are usually hit harder by its coverage moves. Simply put, Conkeldurr has superior priority by far.

Even though it must be used as a main STAB, Conkeldurr makes Drain Punch work with it's natural bulk. It has three Abilities to choose for most sets, while Machamp is more or less limited to No Guard, lest it run Guts and rely on attacks with low PP and miss 20% of the time. And, as mentioned, Conkeldurr is the better Guts user due to having longer staying power, especially when considering Drain Punch.

Finally, I just don't see much reason to use Machamp over Conkeldurr considering the latter does so many things to better effect.

 

[LoDart210]

Thanks to GarchompPit for pretty much summarizing the argument this thread has been hosting for a while.

Sad to say, that as a bulky attacker/tank we can conclusively say that Machamp is just outclassed by Conkledurr.

To that end, I propose a new direction for the thread, and that is what other roles can Machamp assume in this meta, and what other roles can he have that isn't outclassed by conkeldurr

 

[zachmac]

To that end, I propose a new direction for the thread, and that is what other roles can Machamp assume in this meta, and what other roles can he have that isn't outclassed by conkeldurr

Well then, what other then Specs Champ? Back in gen 4, I was still a newb, but No Guard Focus Miss made this thing was all the rage- /shot

Sadly, it can't even pull off a choice scarf properly. It hits 343 when Jolly with a choice scarf. Conkeldurp, on the other hand, reaches 310. But Terrakion hits 346 without the need of scarf...The only niche I see is Dynamic Punch, for being very difficult to swap into. This could make it into a lure for ghost types, I suppose, since they're the only things that don't fear confusion. Hit them with Knock Off on the switch, an then the path is clear for a powerful High Jump Kicker to wreck, like Medicham.

252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 246-290 (75.9 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Maybe run some speed EVs so it can outrun this guy to.

252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 314-370 (77.7 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And just for the lolz.
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 226-267 (74.3 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band burned Machamp Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 113-133 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

So it'll even 2HKO through will-o-wisp if Sableye swaps in on it.

Machamp @ Choice Band
208 HP / 252 Att / 44 Spe
No Guard
-Dynamic Punch
-Knock Off
-Stone Edge
-Filler.

So yeah. Pair it up with Mega Medicham or something. Maybe Hawlucha, Hitmonlee, or Scrafty if you like underdogs, which you probably do if you want to use Machamp.

But then again, Tyranitar can pursuit trap ghost and Talonflame....

 

[FlyThai]

People always talk about Machamp being outclassed by Conkeldurr. But i say this. When i see Machamp in the Team Preview I am much more scared then when I see a Conkeldurr.

Not saying its better, but it always threatens my team more than Conk

 

[PrincessDerpy]

Dynamic Punch is frustrating to deal with, that probably has something to do with that slight feeling of misplaced dread.

 

[Az88]

I prefer the confusion clause that Machamp can bring to the table. Conkeldurr doesn't have that. Stat wise it may be better than Machamp but it just can't do what Machamp can on the battlefield. Depends on how you want to use them for your team I suppose.