"LOLWUT?" [RMT]

[Numbuh 214]

SO. I decide to make a Ninjask team for the lulz, and I come to find out... this team has given me better results than any team I can remember using. Thus, I figure I'd post it here to see if I could make it any better. Now there are two rules to this team, and I will not listen to any suggestions that involve changing them.

1. Each member of the team must have ONE physical move. This is so Swords Dance can benefit every member of the team in some form.
2. Me First and Copycat stay on Echo Echo. I have battle logs that prove both are very useful indeed, if you'd like me to PM it to you. Besides that, CC and DP offer perfect coverage on their own.

Ninjask (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
---
The center of the team. I know Focus Sash and Substitute sounds kinda crazy; I may try Protect out eventually, but for now Focus Sash usually lets me pass +2 attack and +1 speed in the face of attacking leads and Substitute sets me up to pass even MORE boosts in the face of everything else. Pretty standard stuff, but I have no idea where to put the remaining 6 EVs. Defense, Special Defense, or HP? Does it make two cents worth of difference?

Derp (Bibarel) (M) @ King's Rock
Ability: Simple
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Pluck
- Quick Attack
- Return
---
This is the main recipient of all boosts; Simple supercharges them so I get TRIPLE attack and DOUBLE speed even if Ninjask has to use its Focus Sash strategy. Waterfall is for main STAB, reliability, and higher flinch chance; though King's Rock allows me to consider Aqua Tail without losing flinchage chance. Pluck hasn't gotten me a berry yet, but it's killed a couple Breloom (one with NO BOOSTS AT ALL NO JOKE), and I'm very pleased with that. QA for priority matching, and Return for pouring on the power.

SweepDotEXE (Porygonz) @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Return
---
I would replace the "Dot" with a ".", but someone banned periods in the nickname filter. Regardless, this is a decent set that also takes advantage of Download. Tri Attack for STAB and epic hax, BoltBeam for coverage, and Return takes down special walls and takes advantage of attack boosts (from Ninjask AND Download).

Swoosh (Togekiss) (F) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Aura Sphere
- Zen Headbutt
---
Standard HaxKiss with Zen Headbutt instead of a paralyze move. Wide Lens because damage isn't the prime concern here and it helps most of the moves hit; Air Slash doesn't miss anymore and Heat Wave and Zen Headbutt (again, there to take advantage of passed Ninjask SDs and take down special walls) have 99% accuracy, which I can live with.

Echo Echo (Lucario) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 149 Atk/252 Spd/109 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Close Combat
- Dragon Pulse
- Me First
- Copycat
---
My own "Echo" Lucario set. With equal attack stats, he can hit nearly anything and hit. It. HARD. Close Combat and Dragon Pulse provide perfect coverage (except for CaP's Kitsunoh, but I don't have to worry about him here :naughty:), Me First smacks things around with their own attack for the ultimate ego shot (Earth Power on Heatrans, Brick Break on Weaviles), and Copycat allows me to either revenge kill with the same idea OR... throw status/entry hazards right back at its user. The only flaw in this strategy is that Copycat should NOT fail because of switching. Yes, it DOES fail when the last Pokémon to act was immobilized (Truant, paralysis, sleep, etc.) but not switching.

FatalShock (Electivire) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Cross Chop
---
Vire's back, kicking ass and taking names just like he did when he was "lolpopuler"; backup boost recipient, and can even net an bonus boost to speed in cases where the opponent is planning to zap my little bug into the dirt (though I can't imagine who would). Other than that, it's the basic physical attacker with some major boosts in effectiveness thanks to Ninjask.

Overall, I'm very happy with this team I originally cooked up as a joke. It's given me amazing results and even caused a few people to ragequit at the idea of being swept by a "roidrage" Bibarel. Sure, I might have gotten lucky enough to just get really bad opponents lately; but I doubt it, as I have very bad luck otherwise. I have not one, not two, but six warstories proving that this team can be highly effective.

On an unrelated note, I am planning to fix the Copycat bug as well as many others in a patch I am making for Shoddy Battle to make people happy (while we wait for Shoddy Battle 2, of course); it already contains the missing moves, missing items, AND secondary priority (Quick Claw, Stall, and the like). If you have seen any glitches that REALLY need fixing, post them here and I'll see what I can do! ^_^ (Note: Encore/Solarbeam is a really easy problem to fix that I already have, so don't suggest that.)

 

[Numbuh 214]

Props! Cool idea, cool execution.... I'm guessing the team does okay w/o the ninjask boosts(it would have to). what kind of damage does pory's return do to blissey w/ download set to attack and a swords dance?

What? You don't think it can (almost) always OHKO with 647 Attack, 102 BP and STAB? ...No? All righty, here's the calc to prove it...

647 Atk vs 130 Def & 714 HP (102 Base Power): 708 - 834 (99.16% - 116.81%)

92.31% chance of OHKO FTW.

Some other interesting calcs for anyone doubting the power of Me First:

+1 (after Swords Dance AND Intimidate) LO Me First Stone Edge on BULKYdos:

439 Atk vs 282 Def & 394 HP (100 Base Power): 436 - 514 (110.66% - 130.46%)

(Admittedly, I don't know why a Gyarados would use SE on a Lucario; maybe it's expecting a switch?)

UNBOOSTED LO Me First Earth Power on 252 HP/240 SDef Heatran (like you thought it would survive?):

293 Atk vs 308 Def & 386 HP (90 Base Power): 480 - 568 (124.35% - 147.15%)

+1 (after Swords Dance AND Intimidate) LO Me First Outrage on Physically Bulky (252 HP/180 Def) Salamence:

439 Atk vs 241 Def & 394 HP (120 Base Power): 612 - 720 (155.33% - 182.74%)

The only problem I see with Me First is that its users are SLOW. And since my Echo Echo is usually passed speed, that isn't a problem. Me First also allows Echo Echo to use Knock Off, Rapid Spin, AND U-turn, so it's not all about damage. (I used to run this set with a Choice Scarf, but the lack of freedom bit it in the butt.)

Also, Copycat allows me to use the opponent's set-up moves against them if I've switched in on them; this allows Echo Echo to use moves like Calm Mind or Dragon Dance to gain additional boosts of its own or Will-O-Wisp on burn abusers (Fire-types excluded, of course) or Toxic on Toxistallers (that aren't Poison or Steel, obviously). It SHOULD allow me to (try to) Leech Seed a subseeder's replacement, but I'm aiming to fix this minor oversight on a move that is otherwise lolworthy.

So, yeah. Me First and Copycat have proven their effectiveness.

 

[Adamco13]

Ninjask (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
---
Standard Lead -- Good. Just watch out for a Taunting lead it will ruin you here.

Derp (Bibarel) (M) @ King's Rock
Ability: Simple
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Pluck
- Quick Attack
- Return
---
Get rid of Pluck and replace it with Curse. Curse makes it so he gets even stronger and a bit more bulky.

SweepDotEXE (Porygonz) @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Return
---
I don't care what you say Return is stupid as hell on a special poke. Get rid of it and put in HP Fighting or Dark Pulse. Put a choice scarf on him and you're all set. Jut cause you're using SD on your lead doesn't mean that all pokes must have a physical move it just ruins them and their coverage there is 100% no point there is a reaosn why you have Special and physical pokes on a team

Swoosh (Togekiss) (F) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Aura Sphere
- Zen Headbutt
---
Get rid of Zen Headbutt and replace it with Twave. Much better option for the same raosn as above.

Echo Echo (Lucario) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 149 Atk/252 Spd/109 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Close Combat
- Dragon Pulse
- Me First
- Copycat
---
I hate it but you refuse to change it so whatever

FatalShock (Electivire) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Cross Chop
---
Good except maybe think of a mixed version since this one can be easily walled (I prefer the non-mixed version)

One word of advice: Don't make an RMT if you're not willing to take advice on certain things.

 

[Lord Blood]

Ninjask (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
---
Standard lead as stated before. You have no way to stop Swampert however, so just be careful of that. Since he can Roar you away, you're strategy is screwed. Useless Focus Sash, once you Sub, Sash is negated as well as Roar can screw you over. Replace Focus Sash with Leftovers, so you have a change to make up for speed, if you do get Roared.

I do have a suggestion though. If you take my advice on the Pokemon, then you should change this to a Swampert. Use this set for Swampert:

Swampert @ Leftovers
Torrent
Relaxed
240 HP/216 Def/52 SpA
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

You will be able to Roar away opposing leads as well as provide a bit of bulk to your team so you won't be screwed by opposing leads. Stealth Rock is a must for virtually every team. Earthquake provides STAB and Ice Beam provides good coverage as well as hitting Salamence and Latias.

Derp (Bibarel) (M) @ King's Rock
Ability: Simple
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Pluck
- Quick Attack
- Return
---
Gyarados seems to be clearly a better option of receiving the speed and posisibly the attack boosts. He boasts higher stats in every column. Couple that with perfect coverage and Bibarel looks pretty stupid. The Gyarados set I recommend is this:

Gyarados @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Intimidate
Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Waterfall/Aqua Tail
- Ice Fang/Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Waterfall seems to be clearly the better choice for flinch rate, but Aqua Tail can be used for power. Ice Fang hits Celebi, Breloom and Salamence. You can use Dragon Dance over Ice Fang, if you use Swampert over Ninjask as your lead. While, Stone Edge hits opposing Gyarados and possibly Zapdos. Earthquake just finishes off the set while hitting Heatran, Lucario and Metagross harder than Waterfall.

If Gyarados doesn't suit you, then Jirachi's Flinch rate is also viable. It has the defenses to survive a few hits and be able to Paralyze and Flinch with Serene Grace. If you decide to use Jirachi, this set is recommended:

Jirachi @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Serene Grace
Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Thunder Punch

Body Slam gives you 60% Paralysis. Iron Head and Body Slam's paralysis gives you 60% to Flinch on top of 60% Paralysis. Fire Punch hits Scizor while Thunder Punch hits Gyarados. This Pokemon isn't as effective as Gyarados, but it's more bulkier.

However, if you do decide to keep Bibarel, switch from King's Rock to Leftovers/Life Orb.

SweepDotEXE (Porygonz) @ Life Orb
Ability: Download
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Tri Attack
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Return
---
Return is dumb as hell. Doesn't matter if this is Porygon-Z or Blissey. It's not worth it. Hidden Power Fighting/Dark Pulse are definetly much better options to use. Then, replace Life Orb with Choice Scarf and use a Timid/Modest Nature. Use this EV spread: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed.

Swoosh (Togekiss) (F) @ Wide Lens
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Aura Sphere
- Zen Headbutt
---
Wide Lens has got to go. It's useless. Replace wide lens with Choice Scarf. Consider Fire Blast or Flamethrower over Heat Wave. And use Tri Attack/Trick or Hidden Power Ice for last slot.

Echo Echo (Lucario) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 149 Atk/252 Spd/109 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Close Combat
- Dragon Pulse
- Me First
- Copycat
---
Looks like a good set. Very Gimmicky, but if it works, use it. Hell, I might even use it, looking at the reasons you provided.

FatalShock (Electivire) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Motor Drive
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Cross Chop
---
Electivire would gladly benefit a lot more if you used Gyarados on your team. Gyarados would almost 100% ensure Electivire to get at least 1 speed boost throughout your whole game if the opposing team has an Electric attack. Speaking of Electivire, you should use a mixed set.

Electivire @ Expert Belt/Life Orb
Motor Drive
Mild
36 Atk/252 SpA/220 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power Ice/Grass
- Cross Chop

This provides you maximum potential and can work if Ninjask has been Roared away. That way, you can lure Gyarados to Electric attacks and switch to Electivire. You get higher damage from Thunderbolt than ThunderPunch on many Pokemon as well as hitting Gyarados through Intimidate. Flamethrower hits Metagross and OHKOs Scizor. Hidden Power Ice hits Gliscor and Salamence (through Intimidate). While Hidden Power Grass hits Swampert. Cross Chop finishes the set off with the ability to hit Heatran as well as Lucario.

This team does seem to have its fair share of problems. I would be in doubt if you got very high on the ladder, looking at the problems. You have to be able to incorporate a portion of what people say into your team. If it's like stupid stuff, then don't do it, but if it's very useful, then do it. It's like using Shuckle for a Physical wall over Skarmory. Skarmory is the better Physical wall because of the ability to InstaHeal, better typing and great synergy with Blissey. You really can't argue with those reasons.

 

[SmokingBomber465]

Swampert can switch into every single person on your team and threaten immediately.
Return is a waste of a moveslot on a pokemon that already has 4-slot syndrome.
Fear zapdos, especially physically defensive ones.
Pluck is a stupid move, get rid of it--if you want to steal an item, use thief but I recommend a better move altogether.
King's Rock is a dumb item, never ever use it--ever.
Zen Headbutt is a dumb move--it has poor coverage and even with swords dance, you will never ever ever fix togekiss' 50 base atk.

But then again, you won't be considering these changes anyway, right?

 

[Numbuh 214]

Huh...? Sorry sorry, I was having computer troubles. Yeah about the physical rule, I was only thinking that if I'm passing boosts, ONE move should benefit from said boosts on all recipients. But, I'm willing to give the suggestions a shot. :)

 

[SmokingBomber465]

I'm not saying your idea is dumb--and I don't mean to be so harsh, I just rescently lost my best friend and I'm sore at the world.

What I mean to say is that baton passes on teams don't have to benefit everyone. Even 3 pokemon potentially benefitting from a swords dance is a GOOD amount! Having all 5 is just redundant. Besides, your pokemon will love the speed boosts anyways!

That being said, Togekiss and Porygon-Z, while appreciating the speed boosts, wouldn't benefit much from a physical attack boost. Their Atk stat is so low that even with boosts, they are hard-pressed to do much more than waste a moveslot.

Your team has a lot of character, I'm not denying that, Lucario's Me First is actually a brilliant idea seeing as how most of his counters also suffer from his weaknesses--and it adds a bit of novelty to a dried-up, boring OU metagame.

 

[Numbuh 214]

Oh, I see. No hard feelings man, as I've been down that road myself; I lost my dad's long-time buddy Chris. To me, he was the "more fatherly than your own dad" kind of guy. But, we lost him Friday, January 13th, 2006 (I know, what a day to go huh?); you see, he had epilepsy, meaning he went into seizure at nearly unpredictable times. He had an attack in the shower and that was it.

I only offered to finish the sprinklers with my dad (he offered to help my dad install them like my mom wanted him to, as he was always their "middleman") because I knew "Grizzly Bear" would have wanted me to finish what he couldn't. And to this day, I think of him every time I eat a Carl's Jr. Big Burger (the last meal we shared together, eaten the night before his death). The pain will never fully go away, but most of it will subside... eventually.

So, on a more... on-topic note... though their attack is piteously low, this team isn't exactly designed for repeated switches; if I do change them to be all-special and something like Blissey or Vaporeon or some other special wall comes out, I'm in trouble... Thus, I can nail them in their "weak spot" with a physical move, and since it's usually backed by a Swords Dance, it HURTS. (Not much that threatens either Togekiss or Porygon-Z can take both special hits and boosted physical hits.)

As to the move choices themselves... Return's the most powerful physical move that Porygon-Z possesses other than its twin, Frustration, Double-Edge (the recoil of which is unappealing), Last Resort (which MIGHT work better in my situation given that I've used all my other moves), and Giga Impact (which is lol). Zen Headbutt attempts to serve as a physical Air Slash, taking a good chunk out of things like Vaporeon and Blissey WITHOUT Hustle (though I ought to give it a better nature for that), though I was considering Rock Smash for the better typing (hits Blissey and Tyranitar SE and Scizor for neutral) and guaranteed defense drop to make the next one hurt more. (To put it in perspective for you, a Max Attack +2 Rock Smash hits Blisseys harder than a Max Special Attack Aura Sphere and the Defense drops make sure she doesn't just try to stall us out with whatever recovery move she's carrying.)

As for the comment about "better recipients" than Bibarel and using Gyara-Vire: my team has enough Electric weakness to bait an Electric-type to go on the offensive; 3 Pokemon are weak to Electric (including the focal point Ninjask), and the other 2 are neutral. Some people actually get suspicious about T-bolting a Gyarados (or at least I do); without Gyarados, the strategy is actually LESS expected (but, admittedly, less effective). And Wide Lens is there to counter a REALLY bad string of hax us CaPers seem to be having lately; I will not just lie down and take a loss because Air Slash decided to fail me with it's 95% accuracy (still wish I could do something about the 99% acc Heat Wave gets with Wide Lens, but oh well; it's a small-but-welcome increase in power for a microscopic bit of miss hax; sounds like a pretty fair trade).

(I'm serious about the hax, too. Ask cyberzero, Zari, OR Umbreon Dan if you don't believe me.)

 

[monster]

I suggest you get rid of Heat Wave on Togekiss cuz it overlaps with Air Slash, and Aura Sphere can handle steels. And Zen Headbutt. Put in T-Wave and Roost, or Nasty Plot and Roost.

 

[mc2094]

Your team realies far too heavily on Ninjask's boosts and falls apart without them. Your Lucario set is useless without boosts and the idea behind me first is nice but Lucario can be taken down without SE without much trouble and copycat is plain useless. If you switch into a boost your opponent can just attack you rather than continue to set-up. Bibarel dies quick without boosts while not being able to much damage to the opponent. I really don't see why you don't use a more reliable sweeper with better coverage such as metagross who hits a much higher attack stat after a single SD.

 

[Steel.Storm]

as mc2094 said, this team is too reliant on Ninjask actually being able to STAY alive and get those boosts passed on

also, as basically everyone said: NOT EVERY POKE NEEDS A PHY. MOVE! sure they may get the advantage of using those SD boosts, however what's the use when their Phy. attacks are like 1/6th the power of their Spec. attacks?! seriously, most of the team could just use those Speed boosts and have a field day anyway

that Luke is... interesting. if it works, it works. however i do see how it could fail horribly in some situations =/

 

[Enkidu]

If your heavily reliant or just want benefits from Physical moves, Porygon-Z actually makes a Decent wall breaker after 1 Swords dance ( As per the analysis page ) And Togekiss should be using Extreme speed over zen headbutt. As they said, Your entire team is too heavily reliant on Ninjask's boosts. Simply phazing him away and setting up SR ruins your chances of a successful pass, and If you protect on the first turn like most ninjask users, people like me WILL switch in Something with a priority attack (usually a Scizor/Mamoswine/Lucario) And that ruins him.

Not to mention while you get precious speed and attack boosts, something liek Cursepert/Curselax can waltz in, start cursing up and phaze you out as you try to pass off those boosts. :/

I actually suggest something like A Spore Focus sash Smeargle / Choice scarf sleep powder roserade or anything that can Cripple your opponents lead fast, giving you a definite edge later on.

 

[Numbuh 214]

Yes, I know this team is shaky, but it wasn't exactly made for seriousness or competitive worth; it was actually made because I wanted to laugh at how fast it would've been slaughtered. And I laugh harder at the fact that it actually got me a few victories in a game filled to the brim with BPScizors and Blisseys up the ying-yang. Of course I'll be considering some serious options, but come on, you've got to LOL at the fact I have SIX warstories in which this team WON.

EDIT: As of right now, make that ELEVEN... (plus a 6-0 by Derp that I forgot to save).

 

[ungulateman]

I personally agree not everything needs to benefit from SD. I like that your team is different, but practicality wins over originality.

 

[mc2094]

If your not going to make any of the changes we suggest then why did you bother posting this?

 

[LuistheNinja]

Just wathc out for those Metagross Leads with Bullet Punch, they will hinder Ninjask..alot.

 

[Zog]

The Me First/Copycat Luke is godly. I ran a Me First Toxicroak for a pretty long time on Serebii... it was quite frankly hilarious. Firing back a Sheer Cold at some kid's Kyogre was possibly the most hilarious moment of battling I've ever had, especially when it caused the idiot to DC. Oh and he'd brought the Kyogre when I was asking clearly for OU battles, too.

And anyway, that was a Toxicroak doing serious damage and it only had Me First. Luke must be so much stronger. Anyone who writes it off has probably never used one.

Also I support the use of Return on Z. It's major insurance against special walls, doing major damage to all of the popular ones. Much more damaging than another generic special move.

Pluck is also better than curse on Bibarel: he can use it to steal berry effects, plus it's a decent attacking move anyway. Really good against fighting-types too, especially Heracross and Bibarel.

So... yeah. I actually think this is a great team, if you think less of what works on a generic team and more of what people won't be expecting.

 

[mc2094]

Well return is only useful if ninjask gives the attack boost. Me First only works well if the opponent uses SE(don't expect any Sheer Colds coming from Kyogre.) Bibarel can only sweep if Ninjask can pass the boosts. Electivire is only a threat if it gets boosts in attack and speed. With his current moveset a physical wall can stop it. Togekiss has no recovery and is taken down with ease if it doesn't get speed boosts. Pretty much every poke relies on ninjask to work. The synergy just doesn't work out. Three poke take SE from fighting and the only resist is Ninjask. Please provide some reasons on how the good outweighs the bad. Just because a pokemon has good moves that work in some cases doesn't mean it should be on a team. Return on a porygon-z is just strange. Sure you get extra damage on blissey but without any EVs in SAtk bronzong, Tentacruel, and several other mixed walls can force a switch. Steels are the biggest threat because they take small damage from return. Again, without one or two dances this set just doesn't work. You don't have to use a pokemon to know if it will or will not work. Several of Lucarios counters simpily wall him and don't need to fire off a SE to stop him. No boosts=no sweep for lucario. Pluck is a pure waste. Overall Bibarel has a difficult time in this metagame with a CC user on many teams and several hard hitters. If you have to chooses between the two then go with curse. Stealing berry effects... your joking right. The only berry you would be using is lum berry. Status is probably the worst way to take down something as frail as Bib. With only 85 attack bibarel fails to OHKO Machamp while Champ OHKOs with Dynamic Punch. The only other OU fighter that is not capable of OHKOing Bib before it fires off pluck is Breloom who is difficult to switch into(I'm assuming Bibarel can OHKO with pluck and that Breloom doesn't have Mach Punch) and besides, wasting a moveslot just for one pokemon is...a waste.