To say Hippowdon is more anti-weather than Abomasnow is absurd.
It's definitely not anti-sand for rather obvious reasons, it's not anti-sun because it actually loses to Megazard-Y as well as most sun abusers such as Volcarona and Venusaur, it's not anti-hail because hail teams are no longer a thing (and loses to Abomasnow and ice types anyways) and it's not anti-rain because it loses to any water type.
I think the main reason you don't have much success with it is because Thunderus really isn't all that bulky. You are still better off using another prankster user for rain dance or just a generally bulky pokemon. Politoad still works great too. You must run damp rock now but Politoad still has access to rest and is fairly bulky.I'm trying out Thundurus-I as rain dancer, but he's not doing as much for the team as I feel he should. Perhaps I'm misusing him?
Zephyr (Thundurus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Rain Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder
He's hard to switch in, and pretty much anything worth thunderwaving could bash his face in that turn.
Qualna: Sand has Stoutland and Excadrill with Sand Rush. One of them was banned last gen partially because of Sand. Sand was just as common as Rain was in Gen V, and even with Drizzle and Swift Swim legal in Gen VI Politoed is almost nowhere to be seen on the ladder while Tyranitar ranks pretty damn high. Your point is invalid.LMAO! You're one of them! Don't make me laugh! Hahahaha!
Sand is a neutral weather, it doesn't really have any real abusers, most sand teams are only sand because they're using Tyranitar's or Hippowdon's abilities and not to abuse weather. Sand doesn't boost Rock type attacks like Rain dows with Water type attacks, which is imo, the REAL way of abusing weather offensively(notice that Rain is the most common weather even Drizzle is illegal with Swift Swim?)
About the sun teams, you're just contradicting yourself. If Hippowdon can't deal with those sun-based Pokémons, what more when it's Abomasnow?
"Loses to Abomasnow and ice types anyways"
Using a mono-ice team is just plain dumb for obvious reasons I will not even bother posting. Real hail teams only has one of two(usually Kyu-B) Ice types so it's not much.
"hail is not a thing" it never was really, unless you're talking about Gen IV.
Nah, it can actually outstall some water-types or phaze some like Gyarados.
Remember this:
Hippowdon is an anti-weather Pokémon because of how easy it can survive, you can switch it in multiple times, the most obvious is double-switching like they switch their Politoed to Keldeo and you switch to Hippowdon to negate the rain, thanks to SR resistance Hippowdon only took little residual damage, and then you switch out(what, those Pokémon has Shadow Tag?).
Banned because it was broken, so don't count it, we can say sun(or maybe sand) has Blaziken which is 1000 times more broken.Qualna: Sand has Stoutland and Excadrill with Sand Rush. One of them was banned last gen partially because of Sand. Sand was just as common as Rain was in Gen V, and even with Drizzle and Swift Swim legal in Gen VI Politoed is almost nowhere to be seen on the ladder while Tyranitar ranks pretty damn high. Your point is invalid.
His point was not that Abomasnow counters Sun, but that Hippowdon doesn't. You are the one stating that Hippowdon is an anti-weather pokemon, while it clearly can't switch in on MegaZard Y. It also doesn't carry Stone Edge commonly, if at all. So it can't even hurt Charizard.
Hippowdon does lose to Abomasnow. He has a valid point, no matter how you turn it. It doesn't matter whether he carries more Ice-types on his team, Hippowdon doesn't counter Hail.
Hail was definitely a thing, not only in Gen IV but in Gen V as well. Multiple people topped the OU ladder with Hail Stall. It was just as viable as any other weather, and actually had a favorable matchup against the two main weathers Sand and Rain (bad matchup against Sun obviously, but those were much less common compared to the other two).
I don't see how Hippowdon is outstalling Water-types whatsoever. Especially if they have Scald or Toxic. Hippowdon is not phazing a Gyarados without taking over 50% from Waterfall I'll tell you that much. It even has 30% chance to get 2HKO'd because of the flinch rate.
Your example makes zero sense. You would switch in Hippowdon on a Politoed, and then you claim that you're countering them by having a Hippowdon out against Keldeo? Not even gonna elaborate on this.
Why would we talk about gen V? Thats over and pretty much done. Now that Gen VI is here, we can definitely count excadrill cause its not banned anymore and is definitely an abuser of sand. Blaziken may be banned, but there's still a million sun abusers that can beat Hippowdon without weather (MegaZard, venusaur, Infernape, Rotom-H, etc.) that you failed to mention. And lastly, Sand teams were full of sand abusers, from pokes with type immunities and abilities canceling damage to sand force/rush abusers. The only pokes on most sand teams that didn't gain something from sand were the ones chosen to check would be sand-counters like Rotom-W being used to check water types, so I don't see how sand is strictly neutral as every pokemon that is used with sand either benefits from it, or benefits from having abusers on their team, and I don't think that'll change. I may be misunderstanding what you're trying to say, but I think you're the one who needs to do some research, things that worked last gen obviously don't automatically carry over.Banned because it was broken, so don't count it, we can say sun(or maybe sand) has Blaziken which is 1000 times more broken.
And also, most Sand teams aren't full of Sand Rush, Sand Force and Rock type Pokémons, lmao do your research. Hell, Sand Rush Pokémons are even pretty uncommon back in gen V. Like I said, Sand teams are just teams with Tyranitar / Hippowdon slapped in it because they're too good.
I was actually referring more on Gen V about sun, where they only have the stupidly weak Ninetales.
"why would you switch in Hippowdon" because weather isn't permanent this time, switching is waay more predictable, and I have seen it several times.
"counter a Keldeo" lol, Keldeo got Shadow Tag, help us pl0x!
Perhaps the way you are trying to use this set is the problem- replace the leftovers for a life orb and you have a pokemon who can deal a lot of damage with the boltbeam combo whilst always being able to set up an ally when it is time for thundurus to die. If they send in a sweeper with the aim of revenging thundurus and then sweeping in return, for instance moxie scarf gyarados, then you can thunder wave that sweeper and cripple them for the rest of the match. Alternatively, if they send in a pokemon who is capable of revenging but is then likely to not pose a problem to the rest of your team, you can rain dance before your death and switch in a powerful rain dance sweeper the next turn, keeping the momentum on your side. Similarly if you are threatened by a ground type or something which might hold a lum berry then you can go for the rain dance.I'm trying out Thundurus-I as rain dancer, but he's not doing as much for the team as I feel he should. Perhaps I'm misusing him?
Zephyr (Thundurus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Rain Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder
He's hard to switch in, and pretty much anything worth thunderwaving could bash his face in that turn.
Ah, interesting. You're probably right. The rain becomes more of a bonus in that build. I'm considering swapping out thunder for thunderbolt or voltswitch then, though he isn't the main rain setter so maybe he'll get more chances to use it after all.Perhaps the way you are trying to use this set is the problem- replace the leftovers for a life orb and you have a pokemon who can deal a lot of damage with the boltbeam combo whilst always being able to set up an ally when it is time for thundurus to die. If they send in a sweeper with the aim of revenging thundurus and then sweeping in return, for instance moxie scarf gyarados, then you can thunder wave that sweeper and cripple them for the rest of the match. Alternatively, if they send in a pokemon who is capable of revenging but is then likely to not pose a problem to the rest of your team, you can rain dance before your death and switch in a powerful rain dance sweeper the next turn, keeping the momentum on your side. Similarly if you are threatened by a ground type or something which might hold a lum berry then you can go for the rain dance.
Basically your main aim with this is not to be a supporter with coverage moves, but to be a powerful attacker who is always able to set up another pokemon on your team before dying.
If you use this set again please tell me whether it works or not because I really wanted to try something along these lines and I think thundurus is the pokemon for the job (or perhaps talonflame and using tailwind + will-o-wisp instead of twave and rain dance)
Outside of prankster and increased speed (noteworthy advantages), it seems to me that Zapdos might make a better rain dancer. It has naturally higher bulk and access to Roost, which prolongs your longevity. Keep in mind that Zapdos has the same SpA and still good speed, making it a viable attacker.I'm trying out Thundurus-I as rain dancer, but he's not doing as much for the team as I feel he should. Perhaps I'm misusing him?
Zephyr (Thundurus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Rain Dance
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder
He's hard to switch in, and pretty much anything worth thunderwaving could bash his face in that turn.
Well in my opinion it finally takes some skill to pull off a good weatherteam and that it's more of a challenge now to get the overhand instead of just having perma-weather. Though I have to agree that weatherstall has taken a blow.I find that one of the most irritating things about the weather nerf is how fun playstyles for certain pokemon are being nerfed, the stall-ish ones in particular. Venusaur's subseed set was always very useful on sun teams, but with a limited duration Venusaur can only enjoy the chlorophyll for only a few turns. This is a huge problem and basically forces sun team Venusaurs back to being offensive only.
I know this was touched upon already, but it's important to note that using Abomasnow for its ability to beat rain just isn't worth it anymore. On top of rain's much lower usage now than in BW, a much easier way to "win the weather war" is quite simply to kill the opponent's Politoed. No, it's not as immediate as switching in your Abomasnow, but it's far more worthwhile just to play with this goal in mind than to use Abomasnow, a pretty mediocre Pokemon in the current metagame.How exactly did Abomasnow "loses its anti-weather" utility? Snow Warning still cancels any weather in use and replaces it with Hail. That's exactly what it did in previous generations. When the Snow Warning wears off, the old weather won't pick back up unless it's restarted. And if you're arguing that the other team can restart it, why couldn't you just send Abomasnow back out? Abomasnow works fine for "anti-weather". It just doesn't work for "perma-hail".
The first thing that comes into mind is Azumarill, forcing Kingdra to switch out as Azumarill is immune to dragon and resists water. Magnezone can also be disposed of by Azumarill if the opposition predicts well enough and superpowers on the switch, and net the kill with aqua jet. I must admit Kingdra wrecks shop thoIf you haven't used kingdra yet this gen, you owe it to yourself to give it a try. Draco meteor, surf, waterfall and a filler move are all you need to completely wreck a team. Throw a politoad and magnezone on that team for the best results.
Yeah, the team is still a work in progress, but kingdra is surprisingly powerful on both the physical and special side. Luckily its still an uncommon site in the current metagame.The first thing that comes into mind is Azumarill, forcing Kingdra to switch out as Azumarill is immune to dragon and resist water. Magnezone can also be disposed of by Azumarill if the opposition predicts well enough and superpowers on the switch, and net the kill with aqua jet. I must admit Kingdra wrecks shop tho