Inheritance should be fixed now.
I'm not gonna blow every set load yet, there's some stuff I wanna save.
But can we cut the bullshit andshare the damn bedstop pretending Shell Smash won't always be broken and should just be banned at the outset of any new OM?
Landorus-Therian @ White Herb
Ability: Shields Down
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Explosion
Mega Gyarados was banned for it, and I'm working on Landorus-T and Haxorus (Barbaracle).
EDIT: And, ofc, Torkoal to just about any Fire-type.
Also Tapu Lele!Alakazam is fucking amazing and I don't know why it's not S rank in the VR (do we have a VR?)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7inheritance-683268812
As I said months ago I also don't understand why Shell Smash is legal. Given the variety of pokemon that learn it, it can be on almost any pokemon with a high attacking stat and salvageable speed and suddenly make that pokemon a set-up threat that wasn't apparent from team preview. I just took a look at the shell smashers movepools and while they are not individually that impressive in total they have a huge variety of moves and sets.Holy mother of Mime, Houndoom looks terrifying...
Why is shell smash still legal again? I feel like this entire meta and all the discussion of has been about mons broken by shell smash or the ways to check them. I've never understood why this was the only meta that gave new moves that allowed it (besides bh but bh is special)
That's an error of coding which is going to be fixed soon (i guess)I battled a mega kangaskhan. Is that supposed to be allowed since mega kangaskhan is ubers?
It's not up to us to say why it shouldn't be broken or doesn't improve the meta, it's up to you to argue why it would be broken. Things aren't banned because they're safe to ban or you don't think they are fun, it's because it's a problem. Speculating has no effect and I don't see it on the ladder at all.After discussion in the room, I would like to ask for a ban of innards out.
It hasn't made any impact on the meta that I know of, but I feel like this is an extremely safe ban:
- It cannot ever improve the meta in any way: it is either not played or extremely un-fun (I don't think anyone will argue that innards out chansey is something they like to play against). I dont see any reasons to say it could be competitive in inheritance while it wasn't in AAA and BH.
- It definitely has potential: it has tons of reason of being better than in AAA, as setup, pivot moves... are all more common and are common ways to abuse innards out. That means that it is not a "meaningless" ban. Even if it is meaningless (just like banning shadow tag on wynaut in OU), innards out needs to go because it is simply uncompetitive.
I think innards out should be banned even if it is not played yet. It may one day find the perfect storm where for two weeks the meta will be warped around it, making for a really awful experience during that time. To avoid that, I see no reason to keep innards out in inh.
Uh the number of HP matters, because it's a built-in Final Gambit with no immunities. And the worst part of Innards Out is it's unseeable until you actually KO the mon. You meet a Chansey which can potentially be Prankster, Unaware or Innards Out. You suspect an Unaware, bringing a Terrakion hoping to KO, then your Terrak got KO'd... This is why it's uncompetitive, like Illusion. You can't see who uses it until you actually KO the mon.Unlike other metas where you get a free ability change to innards out, in this meta you get the abysmal movepool of pyukumuku with it. It normally sits happily in PU doing nothing. The HP boost from a bulky mon barely matters as any offensive set-up mon trades regardless whether it's base 55 or 200 HP.
This is why neither me, nor Chopin, are saying this is over powered, because this would require evidence, replays... We are saying it is uncompetitive.It's not up to us to say why it shouldn't be broken or doesn't improve the meta, it's up to you to argue why it would be broken. Things aren't banned because they're safe to ban or you don't think they are fun, it's because it's a problem. Speculating has no effect and I don't see it on the ladder at all.
Speaking of being a problem, the only donor of innards out is pyukumuku who has an abysmal movepool. Anything not weak to toxic can come in and not care at all. Yeah sure your +4-in-one-turn pokemon only traded with it but the fact that someone who would put it on a team just to hopefully trade with a potential set-up mon is more of an argument for how overpowering set-up is in the meta, rather than innards out being broken.
Unlike other metas where you get a free ability change to innards out, in this meta you get the abysmal movepool of pyukumuku with it. It normally sits happily in PU doing nothing. The HP boost from a bulky mon barely matters as any offensive set-up mon trades regardless whether it's base 55 or 200 HP.
Alola-Muk is v good, but imo the best set looks like this.This is a muk set that goes well on bulky offense/balanced teams:
Mienshao (Muk-Alola) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Drain Punch
Mienshao gets both of Muk's STABs, u-turn and regenerator. This set mostly spams knock off and u-turn. The fourth moveslot can also be filled with high jump kick or stone edge. If you run this set, it's a good idea to also run a bulky flying, water or grass type to help with muk's weakness to ground.
best outlines why Innards Out is a problem, and look! It even has a replay. While full stall is comparatively rare on the ladder because nobody likes laddering with stall, Pyukumuku inheritors are rather problematic on that archetype. I do think Pigeons is a better person to argue this case though, so I'll leave it here.With Inheritance possibly returning to the main server next month I'd like to bring up what I think is the biggest issue in the current metagame, and that's Innards Out.
Innards Out works essentially the same way in Inheritance that it did in Balanced Hackmons: as a glue on stall or other bulky teams to have a one-time answer to anything particularly threatening on the opponent's team. Innards Out was quickbanned in Balanced Hackmons because it made stall teams far too difficult to break, Innards Out itself has very little counterplay and can almost always remove a wincon from the opposing team. I believe this is also the case in Inheritance, if anything Innards Out is more broken because it can't be lured with Magic Guard due to donor reveal. While Innards Out users don't have access to every move as in Balanced Hackmons, Pyukumuku donates everything an Innards Out user could need. Taunt forces the opponent to attack which eliminates most 50/50s, Recover keeps the Innards Out user healthy to maximize damage when the time comes and Toxic allows the Innards Out user to somewhat punish switchins.
I played a game against TylerWithNumbers that illustrates how ridiculous Innards Out can be. In our game Tyler brought Swords Dance + Photon Geyser Mega Medicham which could break through the entirety of my team as well as several other powerful offensive Pokemon. In the game however, Tyler was completely unable to utilize his win condition due to the presence of Innards Out Blissey, despite him being fully aware that I was Innards Out. The risk vs reward factor in using Innards Out is ridiculously in favour of the stall user, by pivoting to Blissey every time Tyler brought out his Medicham there was no way for him to utilize his wincon, and because his other Pokemon were walled there was no way for him to win. The team I used was hardly optimized, yet it still proves extremely difficult to beat thanks to Innards Out Blissey.
Yes, I realize there is some counterplay to Innards Out. Inheriting Magic Guard from Clefable or another Pokemon makes Innards Out useless against whatever sweeper is Inheriting from it, but because donors are revealed the stall user won't waste their Innards Out user and instead save it for another team member. There might be some other counterplay I'm not thinking of but I doubt there is any that would punish the Innards Out user to the point that Innards Out becomes a liability.
I believe Innards Out gives stall teams to large an advantage to be healthy for the metagame because it is able to blanket check most of the offensive metagame in a way that leaves little counterplay for the offensive player. Inheriting from Pyukumuku should be banned because it lends an overwhelming advantage to the player using it and because it makes preparing for stall extremely difficult.
I seem to be seeing a lot of sets like this one being posted here and I would like something clarified. As I understand it, when a pokemon inherits from another mon, they take NOT ONLY the ability, but also all of the moves from that pokemon, and in doing so forfeit all of their own moves and abilities. Is this correct?It took a while to get through all these sets posted, and holy goddamn are some of them amazing.
Anyway, here's my contribution: A check for (almost) everything in the game.
Typhlosion (Escavalier) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch/Flare Blitz/Wild Charge
I ran A LOT of calcs with this thing. I'm not even kidding when I say that there are only a handful of mons that can 1v1 this before already having acquired a good amount of boosts. Typhlosion giving good old bug knight 0 weaknesses, gyro ball, and excellent coverage options means that it can handily deal an OHKO or 2HKO to a lot of threats in the meta. I'm not a big fan of the recoil moves as coverage options as you lack recovery to begin with, but a flash fire boosted flare blitz hits really damn hard, and wild charge is a good option against those pesky water mons that you otherwise might have trouble with with the rest of the setup, if this is your only reliable switchin.
Yes this is correct otherwise stuff like blaceph with magic guard from bliss would be MRE commonI seem to be seeing a lot of sets like this one being posted here and I would like something clarified. As I understand it, when a pokemon inherits from another mon, they take NOT ONLY the ability, but also all of the moves from that pokemon, and in doing so forfeit all of their own moves and abilities. Is this correct?
Was the move the chansey was using directed at ur pokemon?, was the move metal burst ? Or was the mons u were using a flying type or not touching the ground? If not any of these, outline the situation so it can be diagnosed as to whether or not it is a glitchYesterday I posted a question about why Imposter could be used by Chansey and it seems to be deleted now....
I have another Issue: Prankster shouldn't work in Psychic Terrain (it didn't work in Mix & Mega), but right now a Chansey (copying Sableye) could use Prankster in Psychic Terrain. I hope, this gets fixed soon, too...
Unfortunately, I don't have a replay of the match. None of my Pokemons were Flying/ Levitate, so they were all grounded. The move it was using, was Recover I think (or a similar move that lets you get half of your HP), and it got Priority (Chansey was also grounded), while I had Psychic Terrain with my Alakazam (copying Lele).Was the move the chansey was using directed at ur pokemon?, was the move metal burst ? Or was the mons u were using a flying type or not touching the ground? If not any of these, outline the situation so it can be diagnosed as to whether or not it is a glitch
Then that's it, pysterrain prevents anything from being targeted with priority it doesn't stop moves that self target (like recover) or moves that target the field (haze).Unfortunately, I don't have a replay of the match. None of my Pokemons were Flying/ Levitate, so they were all grounded. The move it was using, was Recover I think (or a similar move that lets you get half of your HP), and it got Priority (Chansey was also grounded), while I had Psychic Terrain with my Alakazam (copying Lele).