Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[xJownage]

Fisherman Walter, the main problem with keldeo imo is the combination of everything it does; it has a good typing that allows it to run multiple sets effectively, it has much more passable bulk, and is significantly stronger than starmie. Starmie is definitely good, but not on the same level as Keldeo, and even without primordial sea Spout Keld is ridiculous.

 

[Fisherman Walter]

Keldeo is weak to 2/3 -ates, and gale wings, so most forms of priority beat it, unlike starmie. So i disagree that it has more passible bulk in the metagame at the moment. But what i was trying to say is that people have been saying that they have to run specific counters for keldeo that they assume would go away after the ban, but in reality there are other mons that hit insanely hard with primordal sea boosts also. IMO ban the set, not the mon.

 

[yoman5]

I still think the keld backlash is stronger than the actual necesssity for a ban. The hype will die down after the meta stabilizes more, especially since people are just now starting to polish up stall/balance cores.

 

[skies]

Hiya! We made a viability rankings! A few users from the OM room and I that is!

S Rank:

Glalie-Mega [Genesect, Lucario, Linoone, Dragonite]

Keldeo [Mega Blastoise, Primal Kyogre, Masquerain]

Landorus-Therian [Talonflame, Kecleon, Mega Salamence]

Pinsir-Mega [Linoone, Genesect, Rayquaza]

A Rank:

A+ Rank:

Altaria-Mega [Genesect, Lucario, Linoone, Chatot, Flygon, Dragonite, Carracosta]

Lopunny-Mega [Pikachu, Lucario, Linoone]

Metagross-Mega[Genesect, Jirachi, Scizor]

Terrakion [Mega Heracross, Mega Lucario, Malamar, Trapinch]

Thundurus [Greninja, Kecleon, Lanturn]

A Rank:

Azelf [Kecleon, Greninja]

Chansey [Sableye, Sableye-Mega, Mew, Furfrou]

Heatran [Flygon, Latias, Latios, Primal Groudon]

Latios [Swoobat, Clefable]

Slowbro-Mega [Swoobat, Masquerain]

A- Rank:

Cresselia [Sableye, Sableye-Mega, Gliscor, Xatu, Sigilyph]

Manaphy [Masquerain, Quagsire]

Rhyperior [Quagsire, Solrock, Furfrou]

Tyranitar [Crawdaunt, Blaziken]


B Rank:

B+ Rank

Florges [Jellicent]

Garchomp [Pangoro, Druddigon, Dragonite, Tyranitar]

Gengar [Nidoking, Nidoqueen]

Gyarados-Mega [Carracosta, Crawdaunt]

Hippowdon [Ho-oh]

B Rank

Archeops [Salamence-Mega, Kecleon, Blaziken, Tyrantrum]

Magnezone [Latios, Latias]

Porygon-Z [Noivern, Chatot]

Suicune [Alomomola, Slowbro, Quagsire]

Sylveon [Mega Diancie]

B- Rank

Alakazam [Kecleon, Darmanitan, Swoobat]

Bisharp [Aerodactyl-Mega]

Chandelure [Nidoking, Rampardos, Groudon-Primal, Victini]

Goodra [Slowbro]

Mamoswine [Cloyster, Aurorus, Glalie-Mega]

C Rank:

Aerodactyl [Diancie-Mega, Tyrantrum]

Gothitelle [Gothitelle]

Houndoom [Ninetales]

Jolteon [Genesect, Nidoking]

Ninjask [Deoxys, Skarmory]

Scizor [Scolipede]

Togekiss [Altaria-Mega, Sylveon]

No D Rank, because you honestly won't use anything below this hehe!

Let us know if we missed / need to add somehting!

 

[Halliday]

We need to add Doublade and Ferro. I would put doublade somewhere in the A-ranks, but I don't know about Ferro.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Tyranitar is amazing inheriting from Lucario-Mega. Much better then Crawdaunt imo. Lucario gifts Drain Punch/EQ/Crunch/Stone Edge/ SD and more. Also inheriting shell smash from Shuckle is a thing. keeps Stabs and EQ.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Add Masquerain to Suicune, as well as Nidoking and Porygon-Z to Thundurus.

I also think Mega Venusaur should be included somewhere, though it doesn't have the best defensive typing for this meta.

Mega Diancie is a solid sweeper with a handy Flying resistance. It deserves a mention. (In the room, we came up with a nice set inheriting from Mawile the other day.)

 

[yoman5]

Tyranitar is amazing inheriting from Lucario-Mega. Much better then Crawdaunt imo. Lucario gifts Drain Punch/EQ/Crunch/Stone Edge/ SD and more. Also inheriting shell smash from Shuckle is a thing. keeps Stabs and EQ.

Crawdaunt notably gifts dragon dance and knock off.

 

[tegrof19]

Is there a specific reason you left off dnite as a donor to mpinsir?

 

[yoman5]

pinsir lacks the bulk for mulstiscale, and cc/eq are better coverage (coming from luc)

 

[tegrof19]

I guess it's only me that used it to moderate success than, heh

Pinsir is quite physically bulky if I recall tho, but its beginning type kinda sucks for taking hits.

 

[canno]

Yo where's my Jellicent Keldeo m8? Water Absorb is trolly vs other Keldeo's when they don't expect it, and it's notably has Trick over the other Water Spouters to fuck over things like Chansey and other walls. I think its pretty rad

 

[Jack Dalton]

Why was Gengar tiered based on inheriting from Nidoking/queen? Dragalge allows it to retain its unresisted coverage in Shadow Ball/Sludge Wave/Focus Blast while giving Gengar Adaptability and moves like Scald/Hydro Pump/Draco Meteor.

 

[motherlove]

Why was Gengar tiered based on inheriting from Nidoking/queen? Dragalge allows it to retain its unresisted coverage in Shadow Ball/Sludge Wave/Focus Blast while giving Gengar Adaptability and moves like Scald/Hydro Pump/Draco Meteor.

sheer force + stab is 1.5*1.3=1.95 so pretty much the same as adaptability, while having boosted power for coverage (and coverage) and ignoring lo damage
Because yeah, nido learns shadow ball + focus blast + sludge wave.

Also, doublade definetly for A or A-, arcanine doublade or latias (corrected after yoman's post) doublade both are extremely good donor.

I also definetly think suicune is worthy of A rank, being the best user of unaware and with all the set up in the meta.

I'd also put porygon 2 somewhere in here, maybe C rank inheriting from swellow is really good on balanced team with scarrpy boomburst + roost and slow u-turn.

 

[canno]

Where's the love for my bro Jirachi? Walls a lot of shit like Aerilate Lando-T and stuff. What it has over Heatran is a fighting neutrality and the extra speed.

Also Solrock is a legit doner to both Levitran and Levirachi, giving them Wisp and Morning Sun for recovery.

 

[Akumeoy]

I also think Mega Venusaur should be included somewhere, though it doesn't have the best defensive typing for this meta.

Anyone have any good Megasaur sets? Nothing comes to mind immediately, and it faces stiff competition from several other great Megas.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Anyone have any good Megasaur sets? Nothing comes to mind immediately, and it faces stiff competition from several other great Megas.

I just used a boring Mew set with Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb / Roost / Heal Bell because I needed a cleric, but I'm sure there are better sets it can run.

 

[Anna says hi]

I've been experimenting with Rhydon/Rhyperior with Cradily as the donor. Provides Storm Drain, Recover, QuakeSlide, and Stealth Rock. Please add that to the list of viable donors for Rhyperior.

 

[Akumeoy]

How does inheriting from Arceus work? For example, can I put an Earth Plate on my Multitype Heatran and make it Ground-type and give it Ground-type Judgment, for example? Will said plate be able to be knocked off or tricked away?

 

[Red Cat]

How does inheriting from Arceus work? For example, can I put an Earth Plate on my Multitype Heatran and make it Ground-type and give it Ground-type Judgment, for example? Will said plate be able to be knocked off or tricked away?

I think Multitype is coded to only work on Arceus, so your Heatran will still be Fire / Steel type. You can still take advantage of Judgement, but you will have a useless ability and have to hold the plate, so Arceus is not a very good donor.

 

[SpaceJam]

Heatran could be pretty cool with a Flygon set. It gets Levitate, Roost, and Defog, and keeps Stealth Rock. Losing Lava Plume and Magma Storm sucks, but it still gets Fire Blast/Flamethrower. U-Turn and Tailwind are probably usable too.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock/Toxic
- Defog/Toxic
- Roost

Offensive Rocks trades Flash Cannon for Giga Drain, which is kinda neat, and Levitate acts as a never ending Air Balloon.

 

[motherlove]

Heatran could be pretty cool with a Flygon set. It gets Levitate, Roost, and Defog, and keeps Stealth Rock. Losing Lava Plume and Magma Storm sucks, but it still gets Fire Blast/Flamethrower. U-Turn and Tailwind are probably usable too.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Flamethrower
- Stealth Rock/Toxic
- Defog/Toxic
- Roost

Offensive Rocks trades Flash Cannon for Giga Drain, which is kinda neat, and Levitate acts as a never ending Air Balloon.

Yeah, that's been posted before and is in the viability rankings.

Also, arceus might have a useless ability but he still has a kickass movepool

Also, stall is the best thing in the meta atm, banning keldeo will just make it better.

EDIT: I think an underused ability that could prove to be very good in this wow infested meta is guts, I haven't tested it myself but it could be really good.

 

[yoman5]

sheer force + stab is 1.5*1.3=1.95 so pretty much the same as adaptability, while having boosted power for coverage (and coverage) and ignoring lo damage
Because yeah, nido learns shadow ball + focus blast + sludge wave.

Also, doublade definetly for A or A-, arcanine doublade or latios doublade both are extremely good donor.

I also definetly think suicune is worthy of A rank, being the best user of unaware and with all the set up in the meta.

I'd also put porygon 2 somewhere in here, maybe C rank inheriting from swellow is really good on balanced team with scarrpy boomburst + roost and slow u-turn.

Tiny, tiny nitpick, but latias is another donor with basically the same movepool, but has healing wish for the more balance oriented teams.

Porygon 2 is mostly outclassed by chansey, and offensive sets are obviously better suited to Porygon-Z.

Idk about stall being the best thing in the meta, but currently people are starting to actually develop solid stall teams, and I think the bans should at the very least wait.

 

[tegrof19]

Stall teams are very easy to build in this meta, as there are a lot of otherwise unviable pokes with very good abilities and stall movepolls, and slapping them onto a general goodmon is very easy.

That being said, even if stall is good, that should hold no bearing as to whether or not Keldeo is broken.

 

[yoman5]

On the contrary, quite a lot of the keldeo hate is predicated on its "unwallable" status. If there are good and functional stall teams they clearly don't give a fuck about keldeo, and offensive teams have honestly an easy time beating keldeo, as offensive teams don't have a switch in for most things.