Hydreigon

[Virizion]

I think Specs will probably be its greatest niche. It's got many opportunities to switch in, is fairly bulky, and has a pretty great movepool. That speed is so weird though!

Many Pokes got weird Speed this gen, like Genosect with 99 Base, Haxorus with 97 (?) Base, etc.

However, I think it's too slow to use Specs effectively, being outsped by major threats to it such as Starmie. (Why would you keep it in against Starmie anyways? I guess my point is moot)

 

[November Blue]

Hydreigon can do so much that I have no idea what to do with him. I use a modest scarfer most of the time with flamethrower/u-turn/dark pulse/draco meteor and 285 speed. Should I be running 291? 295? 280? Timid? What is everyone else using?

 

[Virizion]

Hydreigon can do so much that I have no idea what to do with him. I use a modest scarfer most of the time with flamethrower/u-turn/dark pulse/draco meteor and 285 speed. Should I be running 291? 295? 280? Timid? What is everyone else using?

I'm using Modest with 295 Spe, only because I got it like that. If I could change around the EV's though, I'd use 285 like you're using now, I don't think there's any noticable things you outspeed with Scarf (other than the obvious +1 DD Haxorus) with 295 Spe rather than with 285 Spe. If you have a check/counter to DD Haxorus, then I'd suggest to keep using 285 Spe to outspeed Scarf Timid Shanderaa and other Base 80's.

 

[Twannes]

so is the specs/scarf set the best hydreigon set, or the most useful set? If so, i got to breed a new one ~_~

I working on my 64 HP/252 SpAtk/192 Spd LO/EB Hydreigon and it is already lvl 76, but i can create some time to breed it again (without perfect Iv's) to make it a scarfer.

 

[Ndota]

Yea pretty much. I think Modest nature is the best one since you're not going to outrun anything base 99+ positive nature speed anyways and is a waste. Just hit as hard as you can. Its a preference thing.

 

[PK Gaming]

Wall-Breaker

Sazandora @ Life Orb
Modest
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- U-turn / Focus Blast

The combination of Draco Meteor, Taunt and U-turn prevent Blissey from walling this. Standard Bold Blissey loses up to 40% of her health if she comes in on Draco Meteor. Taunt her to prevent her from recovering health and then get a light hit in with U-turn (17% on avg) as you go to a counter. Factoring in the few rounds of Leftovers recovery and Stealth Rock, Blissey will be on 52% health assuming average damage rolls on both Draco Meteor and U-turn. If Sandstorm is in effect, she'll be on 34%! Either way, next time she comes in on the Hydra, she's dead.

With the pink blob out of the way...

Fire Blast vs 252/92+ Bronzong = 79 - 93%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Dusknoir = 83% - 98% (66% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Forretress = 201% - 237% (guaranteed OHKO even with Light Screen in effect for what it's worth)
Draco Meteor vs 252/252 Gliscor = 84% - 100% (79% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Gyarados = 80% - 94% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 4/0 Heatran = 46% - 54% (can only come in once)
Draco Meteor vs 252/88 Hippowdon = 88% - 103% (58% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Jirachi or Celebi = 89% - 105% (guaranteed OHKO on Celebi after Stealth Rock / 74% chance to OHKO Jirachi after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Machamp = 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Metagross = 108% - 128%
Draco Meteor vs 252/16+ Milotic = 59% - 70%
Draco Meteor vs 252/68 Rotom-A = 92% - 108% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Skarmory = 98% - 115% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Suicune = 69% - 82%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert = 86% - 101% (46% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Vaporeon = 71% - 84%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Zapdos = 90% - 106% (41% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Birijion (Grass/Fighting @ 91/129) = 75% - 88%
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Nattorei (Grass/Steel @ 74/116) = 135% - 159%
Draco Meteor vs 252/252+ Burungeru (Water/Ghost @ 100/105) = 54% - 64%

Your opponent is going to have a horrible ol' time trying to counter this. Stealth Rock and Modest nature are a must as the calculations demonstrate. Wish support would be ideal but not strictly neccessary. It's handy to know that even if something like Blissey, Milotic or the Water/Ghost predict your Taunt and try to attack they'll struggle to harm the Hydra's very respectable 92/90/90 defenses (Blissey averages 39% with Ice Beam and Milotic averages 49%). Pursuit resistance is very useful here, allowing you to come and go as you please unlike Lati@s.

Thoughts? Possible changes? Any input welcome here.

For god sakes people. Stop using shitty sets like Scarf and start using Lee's Stallbreaker set.

 

[Virizion]

For god sakes people. Stop using shitty sets like Scarf and start using Lee's Stallbreaker set.

Switch the item and teach it Taunt. What a big difference.

If it can't hit hard with Scarf, the Life Orb is only gonna help it a tiny bit more while still being outsped by many threats which another Scarfed Dragon could deal with (Even though using two or more offensive Dragons in one team is usually a bad idea due to glaring Ice/Dragon weakness)

 

[Demoness]

Switch the item and teach it Taunt. What a big difference.

If it can't hit hard with Scarf, the Life Orb is only gonna help it a tiny bit more while still being outsped by many threats which another Scarfed Dragon could deal with (Even though using two or more offensive Dragons in one team is usually a bad idea due to glaring Ice/Dragon weakness)

Yes, being able to beat Blissey without any Special attacks isn't a big deal.


Life Orb actually gives you a shitload more power to muscle through walls that can take on a Scarf version, and I really don't think that Hydreigon is a good Scarfer. (I don't think that any Scarf user having to use a Draco Meteor esque move is that good, but to each his own.) He should be using his time to nuke everything with Life Orb or Specs.

 

[PK Gaming]

It makes a huge difference. Playing around scarf is pathetically easy because of weaker damage output. LO on the other hand is almost impossible to wall. For example, Jellicent and Ferrothorn easily wall scarf Hydreigon with the prediction (if you DO mess up and get them killed, setting up on scarfed "whatever" is easy) Life Orb on the other hand is almost impossible to switch into. Only Chansey & Blissey (If Blissey is worn down, she loses) can outright counter him. Hydreigon is the biggest haymaker in gen V and its a shame everyone puts his skills to waste by using scarf. Its only held back by its suboptimal speed.

 

[Virizion]

Yes, being able to beat Blissey without any Special attacks isn't a big deal.


Life Orb actually gives you a shitload more power to muscle through walls that can take on a Scarf version, and I really don't think that Hydreigon is a good Scarfer. (I don't think that any Scarf user having to use a Draco Meteor esque move is that good, but to each his own.) He should be using his time to nuke everything with Life Orb or Specs.

For a wallbreaker, I'd go with something that doesn't mind to be outsped, such as Reuniclus. However, for a Specs Dragon, I'd rather use Latios, and for a Life Orber, I'd rather use.. Heck, I'd rather use Starmie, it gets somewhat similar coverage. Bad things about using Starmie is that it's more frail, not as powerful, can't get past Blissey and is beaten by Rotom-W easily. However, besides those flaws, I usually use Starmie as a specific-threat counter, something I use Scarf Hydreigon for. Sure, as a wallbreaker when it doesn't need to outspeed many things, I believe you when you say it hits hard, but I'm more of a Speed person, so it must just be me :L

It makes a huge difference. Playing around scarf is pathetically easy because of weaker damage output. LO on the other hand is almost impossible to wall. For example, Jellicent and Ferrothorn easily wall scarf Hydreigon with the prediction (if you DO mess up and get them killed, setting up on scarfed "whatever" is easy) Life Orb on the other hand is almost impossible to switch into. Only Chansey & Blissey (If Blissey is worn down, she loses) can outright counter him. Hydreigon is the biggest haymaker in gen V and its a shame everyone puts his skills to waste by using scarf. Its only held back by its suboptimal speed.

I agree, Jellicent is a problem, but I mostly only bring in Hydrei when a Ferro is already out, and if I'm locked into Surf/Dragpulse instead of Flamethrower, I just switch out to something like Reuniclus or my own Ferro :L

I think you're saying that Hydreigon will be able to stay in and kill every wall possible without having to switch, but switches are still available and that is definitely the case with Scarfers :P I do see your point though, that you don't need the extra Speed while wallbreaking and instead need the power that Life Orb offers, and the utility of Taunt.

 

[Twannes]

I think that Hydreigon has 2 or 3 good sets: Life Orb, Specs and maybe Scarf.

i think the Lo and Specs sets look like this. I got the Ev spread from a post in Page 20, explainnig why more speed isn't needed on a LO/Specs set.

Hydreigon@Life Orb
Modest
64 Hp/ 252 SpAtk/ 192 Spd
- Draco Meteor/Dragon pulse
- Dark Pulse/U-Turn
- Surf
- Flamethrower

Hydreigon@Choice Specs
Modest
64 Hp/ 252 SpAtk/ 192 Spd
- Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Surf
- Flamethrower

A dragon move for serious damage dealing, Dark pusle is your alternative STAB after a DM. Surf is to hit ground and rock pokémon and Heatran and flamethrower is for Ferrothron and other bugsteels.

This is just my opinion though. Feel free to comment and adapt the sets a bit.

 

[IcyMan28]

I would use Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse in both cases, as you already have Dark Pulse for an alternative STAB.

Taunt Stallbreaker is also worth running, and physical mix Hydreigon has a niche in that it is somewhat unexpected but still works - exactly the factor that distinguishes it from being a gimmick.

 

[Nonary Game]

For god sakes people. Stop using shitty sets like Scarf and start using Lee's Stallbreaker set.

Agreed. And I think Wish Jirachi could probably pair up well with the hydra. It can provide paralysis support, Wish, remove a few threats, etc, all while covering the Dragon and Ice weakness. Granted Fighting still provides an issue, but that's easily covered.

 

[alphatron]

What is the upside of going mixed? Killing Blissey? How often do you guys see Blissey these days? As specially defensive tyranitar is the new special wall, wouldn't focus blast manhandle him anyway? Aside from him, the majority of pokemon who choose to run SpD sets are steel types, so fire blast would be useful for them regardless. I can totally see the upside in running taunt however, but I don't enjoy being revenged by Garchomp (who I find MUCH harder to deal with than latios to be honest) or allowing him to net free setup. I don't see the problem in running a scarfed set...you get to revenge kill whatever's necessary.

 

[Nonary Game]

What is the upside of going mixed? Killing Blissey? How often do you guys see Blissey these days? As specially defensive tyranitar is the new special wall, wouldn't focus blast manhandle him anyway? Aside from him, the majority of pokemon who choose to run SpD sets are steel types, so fire blast would be useful for them regardless. I can totally see the upside in running taunt however, but I don't enjoy being revenged by Garchomp (who I find MUCH harder to deal with than latios to be honest) or allowing him to net free setup. I don't see the problem in running a scarfed set...you get to revenge kill whatever's necessary.

To be fair, I know one of the top 10 run a Blissey. It'd still be nice to get usage statistics in any case when they're published.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

Personally I just use scarf merely for the fact that I use him as a clean up sweeper or revenge killer and I don't like him being outsped. The mixed wall breaker set is awesome, I just think there are other things I could run for a mixed wall breaker. Of course, none that would truly utilize that awesome special attack set with Draco Meteor and move right on to U-Turning...

 

[Green Mage]

I found scarf to be ineffective because stuff switches out of Hydreigon a whole hell of alot. Typing + bulk + coverage = crazy switches. More often than not, it's hitting something that's coming in, which is why specs is the best set imo. It's not like the scarf set can trap anything and it can just power through mispredictions with specs (it can do that with just an orb too, because modest LO DM 2hkos the most common heatran for @%$#s sake).

I found thunderwave + u-turn to be effective too, but you lose serious coverage by dropping a third attacking move unless you wanna run just dragon and fire.

 

[inept]

I wouldnt even bother will Hydreigon really, hes outclassed by other dragons in every way and gets one shot by all very common fighting moves, which every pokemon seem to have now. his only niche is switching in on psychic pokemon

 

[IcyMan28]

^Lol. The merits of Hydreigon have been discussed to death, you can read over the last 25 pages if you want to find them.

 

[RaRaRabbit]

I found scarf to be ineffective because stuff switches out of Hydreigon a whole hell of alot. Typing + bulk + coverage = crazy switches. More often than not, it's hitting something that's coming in, which is why specs is the best set imo. It's not like the scarf set can trap anything and it can just power through mispredictions with specs (it can do that with just an orb too, because modest LO DM 2hkos the most common heatran for @%$#s sake).

I found thunderwave + u-turn to be effective too, but you lose serious coverage by dropping a third attacking move unless you wanna run just dragon and fire.

I really like that u-turn thunderwave idea. I wonder if there is an overall successful set that could run around with that. That third attack move is a sad loss, but crippling half the team with a thunderwave + uturn scouting set is amazing, while coming in at late game and cleaning up... Its sad however that he misses his third attack slot, yet Fire + Dragon as it is nearly unresisted.

 

[alphatron]

You could always run focus blast over u-turn if you really want that third attack imo.

Once again, is there any need to go mixed? Blissey aside, I'm not seeing it. Even if one of the top ten currently uses a blissey. >_>

 

[IcyMan28]

I really like that u-turn thunderwave idea. I wonder if there is an overall successful set that could run around with that. That third attack move is a sad loss, but crippling half the team with a thunderwave + uturn scouting set is amazing, while coming in at late game and cleaning up... Its sad however that he misses his third attack slot, yet Fire + Dragon as it is nearly unresisted.

Honestly Im not sure that Uturn is necessary, as the point is to hit the switch-in and get out to a counter on the same turn they come in. TWave Hydreigon would be catching them on the switch with Twave so it is moot. TWave / Surf / Fire Blast / Draco Meteor should work. Perfect coverage and it discourages ground types from switching in.

 

[SilverWolf1268]

hopefully this is a post....

hello, if a blaziken with speed boost is considered an uber, then shouldn't serperior also be one too? it has good overall stats and good speed. And with the ability contrary, a 252spa/252speed serperior will be an awesome pokemon to abuse leafstorm with (+2 spa stages instead of -) not to mention the stab 210 power. I'm pretty sure someone can be creative with this and make serperior a ridiculous sweeper.

Edit: This may have been mentioned already, but i don't want to go through 25 pages to find out, so sorry if this has already been posted.

 

[chocolate-kipp]

hello, if a blaziken with speed boost is considered an uber, then shouldn't serperior also be one too? it has good overall stats and good speed. And with the ability contrary, a 252spa/252speed serperior will be an awesome pokemon to abuse leafstorm with (+2 spa stages instead of -) not to mention the stab 210 power. I'm pretty sure someone can be creative with this and make serperior a ridiculous sweeper.

Edit: This may have been mentioned already, but i don't want to go through 25 pages to find out, so sorry if this has already been posted.

Contrary Serperior is unreleased, and even with it, it wouldn't have been broken. Its stats really aren't that great (aren't both of its offenses base 75? ._.), and its movepool is terrible. It gets Leaf Storm, but that's pretty much all it gets, that and Hidden Power (or Leaf Blade/Dragon Tail if you want to go for Coil attacking instead). He's likely going to end up UU or even NU just for its movepool.

edit: wait why is this in the HYDREIGON thread

 

[Cuiv]

1. Contrary Serperior has yet to be released and as such is illegal regardless.
2. Serperior has a terrible movepool and cannot make effective use of what otherwise would be a broken ability. Also, even at +2 or +4 it doesn't hit particularly hard, and plenty of stuff outspeeds it.