DIB is literally meaningless when Steel Beam exists as a free 120 BP move with no recoil, accuracy issues, or stat drops
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Metagame [Gen 9] Modern Gen 1
- Thread starter Copen
- Start date
Chinchou1984
Banned deucer.
Why do fire and poison not resist fairy?
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might be how it was in XY's beta
assuming you mean "why do poison and fire not resist fairy?". in the future consider reading the OP
Chinchou1984
Banned deucer.
that’s what i meant, why do fire and poison not resist fairy
MG1 works with custom game mechanics, which are not conceived with future gen mechanics in mind. Lot of MG1 mechanics are probably just not intended, including the weird MG1 type interactions with fairy and dark.
well yeah but DIB has a flinch chance, hits twice, and is physical. have you seen melmetal's special stats?
my man's forgot the phys/special split!!
but yes in summary Steel Beam is a physical move in this meta just like all other Steel-type moves so youre comparing a 60bp STAB option that hits twice vs. a 140 bp STAB option that almost all pokemon of that type get, the maths should speak for themselves.
also, Steel Beam lacks recoil damage in this gen so it's a 140BP STAB option with no drawbacks, it's a great fit even on Corviknight to deal respectable damage to pratically anything it's looking at.
flinch rate is interesting specially with the popularity of para but probably not near enough to warrant a niche in this meta, if it does sadly Mel still really doesnt enjoy the other Steel types in the tier who provide more value overall; Corv has Roost, the advantages of a Flying type, and U-turn, Iron Treads has Volt Switch, way higher Speed (which grants it a good crit rate in gen 1), and advantages of being part Ground in being immune to T-wave and having STAB EQ, where Mel literally only sits down and hopes to beat you down with Steel STAB instead of providing any other sort of value, it's sadly pathetic movepool leaves it wanting for a lot in this meta
i'm fairly confident you didn't play this meta very much and either don't intend to, or don't intend on researching RBY mechanics first; Fairy is barely a meaningfully good typing in this meta for anything other than being immune to Dragon - Fairy moves are all physical in this meta and with most of them being special attackers you probably can tell they have STAB issues similar to most Ghost types in the past gens, let alone being one of the few types weak to Steel being very problematic with the aforementioned extremely safe Steel Beam
and if you're thinking this is deliberately chosen, this is literally how these mechanics work in Showdown backporting these moves to gen 1, the council didn't make any of this up, this is simply exactly how it works for some reason
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i didn't intend to insult but poke at the way you don't seem to want to look for basic information at the OP FAQ's and would rather complain that the meta is in a shape you do not want it to be instead of trying to comprehend it and why it's this way. I simpl wish this topic was a bit more constructive instead of asking the same things over and over
And what about my confidence?
Time to spread melmetal propaganda
Lead (Melmetal)
Ability: No Ability
- Double Iron Bash / Steel Beam
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Thunder Wave
While being a subpar steel otherwise, Melmetal does have some good traits that allow it to function in the lead slot. It has a mostly even matchup vs Giratina and a great one vs other dragon types like Latios or vs Magearna. While it may look like it loses to lead Iron Treads, it can actually do quite well because of its fantastic bulk.
248 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Melmetal: 182-216 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
248 Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Iron Treads: 196-232 (51.1 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Melmetal can opt to trade some of it's HP to weaken Iron Treads to open up it's teammates like Magearna or Tapu Koko which dislike Iron Treads. This means Melmetal has an even or good matchup into nearly every lead you'll encounter. Steel Beam can be used over Double Iron Bash to cleanly 3HKO Giratina at the cost of not being able to paraflinch with Double Iron Bash (which is only 30% flinch).
The main problem of Melmetal comes from it's poor ability to break common teams and its lackluster typing leaving it vulnerable to most mons to easily 3HKO or 2HKO it. Melmetal can struggle to break water types like Gastrodon, Slowbro, or Walking Wake, and opposing steels like Corviknight can be tough to break and use Melmetal to gain momentum. It's low speed also makes it's crit chance terrible while ensuring that it will be outsped by everything that is not paralyzed or named Slowbro or Corviknight (which wall you completely).
Overall, I think Melmetal can be quite functional as a lead and is quite underrated currently, but is still not a top contender like it's steel buddies Iron Treads or Corviknight.
Lead (Melmetal)
Ability: No Ability
- Double Iron Bash / Steel Beam
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Thunder Wave
While being a subpar steel otherwise, Melmetal does have some good traits that allow it to function in the lead slot. It has a mostly even matchup vs Giratina and a great one vs other dragon types like Latios or vs Magearna. While it may look like it loses to lead Iron Treads, it can actually do quite well because of its fantastic bulk.
248 Atk Iron Treads Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Melmetal: 182-216 (38.4 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
248 Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. 248 HP / 248 Def Iron Treads: 196-232 (51.1 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Melmetal can opt to trade some of it's HP to weaken Iron Treads to open up it's teammates like Magearna or Tapu Koko which dislike Iron Treads. This means Melmetal has an even or good matchup into nearly every lead you'll encounter. Steel Beam can be used over Double Iron Bash to cleanly 3HKO Giratina at the cost of not being able to paraflinch with Double Iron Bash (which is only 30% flinch).
The main problem of Melmetal comes from it's poor ability to break common teams and its lackluster typing leaving it vulnerable to most mons to easily 3HKO or 2HKO it. Melmetal can struggle to break water types like Gastrodon, Slowbro, or Walking Wake, and opposing steels like Corviknight can be tough to break and use Melmetal to gain momentum. It's low speed also makes it's crit chance terrible while ensuring that it will be outsped by everything that is not paralyzed or named Slowbro or Corviknight (which wall you completely).
Overall, I think Melmetal can be quite functional as a lead and is quite underrated currently, but is still not a top contender like it's steel buddies Iron Treads or Corviknight.
Chinchou1984
Banned deucer.
Why is fairy physical instead of special?
i'd try to argue it's typing and bulk might be salvageable but i... can't confidently see it winning against most of what seems to make OU good rn, sad to see it
MG1 Random Battles is now playable on Dragon Heaven! Please note that the server loads slowly so be patient. If you encounter any bugs, bad sets or think any levels are wrong within the format please post them in the #development channel in the MG1 discord server!
they somehow banned protect quicker than it takes to load
Modern Gen 1 is banning Shell Smash and Basculegion (both formes)!
With the addition of Torterra into SV, it gained access to the move Shell Smash. This was widely regarded as a bad move. At +2, Torterra can take down nearly any mon that's been slightly chipped, and can delete the plethora of ground weak threats like Tapu Koko and Iron Treads from full. Headlong Rush is also 100% accurate and it also has access to a wide array of coverage, with Stone Edge to hit flying types like Archeops and Yveltal and HP Fire to roast Kartana. Pair all this with its good defensive typing and bulk allowing it to setup with ease, this mon is a serious threat. However, if this was all that was an issue, this would be a Torterra ban. Both Shell Smash and Basculegion combined with no team preview allows you to chip down your opponent checks without your opponent having any counterplay. Combine this with having to account for Basculegion, Torterra, Blastoise, or another setup sweeper in the back makes it a roll of the dice if you'll instantly lose to a massive speed boosting threat. Because of this, Shell Smash and Basculegions are banned!
Along with this, Cloyster, Gorebyss and Omastar are unbanned.
With the addition of Torterra into SV, it gained access to the move Shell Smash. This was widely regarded as a bad move. At +2, Torterra can take down nearly any mon that's been slightly chipped, and can delete the plethora of ground weak threats like Tapu Koko and Iron Treads from full. Headlong Rush is also 100% accurate and it also has access to a wide array of coverage, with Stone Edge to hit flying types like Archeops and Yveltal and HP Fire to roast Kartana. Pair all this with its good defensive typing and bulk allowing it to setup with ease, this mon is a serious threat. However, if this was all that was an issue, this would be a Torterra ban. Both Shell Smash and Basculegion combined with no team preview allows you to chip down your opponent checks without your opponent having any counterplay. Combine this with having to account for Basculegion, Torterra, Blastoise, or another setup sweeper in the back makes it a roll of the dice if you'll instantly lose to a massive speed boosting threat. Because of this, Shell Smash and Basculegions are banned!Along with this, Cloyster, Gorebyss and Omastar are unbanned.
Modern Gen 1 is banning Sneasler!
A unanimous council vote has decided that Sneasler is too much for the tier. Not only does it have a great 130 attack and 120 speed stats, it has the downright cheapest move ever made: Dire Claw. With its 16.66% sleep chance and an added para chance to boot, you always have a chance to simply sleep your check in any situation with a devastating 0-7 sleep turns, a death sentence in MG1. This is different from moves like Ice Beam which has a similar effect for multiple reasons. Pokemon that use moves that freeze aren't usually offensive powerhouses and the defensive counterplay is much wider after a freeze due to that and the freeze chance is much lower than Dire Claw's sleep chance. Dire Claw can also sleep a mon when you have one already frozen and can sleep multiple mons as there's no Sleep Clause Mod. After a sleep, Sneasler has the very real potential to outright win with it's ability to OHKO nearly any mon with a crit from full and it's amazing ability to chip mons down with it's dangerous STAB combo and U-turn. With this, Sneasler is dead please dont haha react me I need to feed my family.
For SoloPL players, this won't take effect until Week 3.
A unanimous council vote has decided that Sneasler is too much for the tier. Not only does it have a great 130 attack and 120 speed stats, it has the downright cheapest move ever made: Dire Claw. With its 16.66% sleep chance and an added para chance to boot, you always have a chance to simply sleep your check in any situation with a devastating 0-7 sleep turns, a death sentence in MG1. This is different from moves like Ice Beam which has a similar effect for multiple reasons. Pokemon that use moves that freeze aren't usually offensive powerhouses and the defensive counterplay is much wider after a freeze due to that and the freeze chance is much lower than Dire Claw's sleep chance. Dire Claw can also sleep a mon when you have one already frozen and can sleep multiple mons as there's no Sleep Clause Mod. After a sleep, Sneasler has the very real potential to outright win with it's ability to OHKO nearly any mon with a crit from full and it's amazing ability to chip mons down with it's dangerous STAB combo and U-turn. With this, Sneasler is dead please dont haha react me I need to feed my family.
For SoloPL players, this won't take effect until Week 3.
The survey results are in. Magearna, Walking Wake and Giratina have been banned! This won't take effect in Solomod PL until Week 5.
Enjoyment: 3.1 / 5
There is quite a lot of room to improve so we decided to commit mass murder.
Competitiveness: 3 / 5
There is quite a lot of room to improve so we decided to commit mass murder.
Pokemon
30% support ban, 60% support action, 10% think it's balanced
The most obvious and unanimous problem, nearly everyone wanted action on this mon (including all of the council). With it's new Steel Beam 3a set creeping into the meta able to OHKO alot more mons and a complete departure from the healthier Heal Bell sets seen in Gen 8 and early Gen 9 Magearna has shifted from a powerful support pokemon into a suprise setup sweeper capable of OHKOing the vast majority of mons. Not really alot else to say I'm pretty sure everyone knows why this mon is going.
33% support ban, 22% support action, 44% think it's balanced
While Wake didn't get as much support as Magearna for action, with two of it's checks going to Ubers and it's already immensely restricting presence in both the builder and in game combined with little to no defensive counterplay beyond guessing its move correctly, Wake got enough support from council to be sent to its cousin Palkia.
44% support ban, 22% support action, 33% think it's balanced
Being the bulkiest mon in the tier, Giratina outright doesnt die to any single move besides Draco crits and introduces alot of variance between full paras, sedge and draco misses, and stone edge crits. Giratina is also very hard to check with its great coverage and its the best paralysis spreader in the tier. That being said, its the mon the council is most split on so its very likely there will be more discussion on this mon.
11% support ban, 22% support action, 66% think it's balanced
We'll be keeping a close eye on Treads as it already proved its dominance in the pre-Home metagame but currently there's very little support for any action from both the playerbase and the council.
17% support action, 83% think it's balanced, 100% of tier leaders regret adding an other option
Latios wasn't really on the council's radar but was thrown into the survey just in case. As expected, next to no support for action.
12% support ban, 12% support action, 75% think it's balanced
Same as Latios, wasn't really on people's radar but was added in in case anyone had thoughts about it.
While it wasn't on the survey, this mon IS in the councils radar so dont think we forgot about it (even though we did forget to add it to survey...)
Other Tiering Actions
Banning Draco Meteor or Steel Beam is not gonna happen any time soon. Koko is not on the councils radar currently but opinions may change later.
Can you give me likes so I can buy my family food thanks. Im gonna be doing a 1-5 scale next survey for the mons like a normal person I just copied R8s survey and I wont be adding an other option so teamo cant post ban magearna on every mon sorry teamo. Never ask me for any more tiering actions ever again unless its on Archeops.
Enjoyment: 3.1 / 5
There is quite a lot of room to improve so we decided to commit mass murder.
Competitiveness: 3 / 5
There is quite a lot of room to improve so we decided to commit mass murder.
Pokemon
30% support ban, 60% support action, 10% think it's balanced
The most obvious and unanimous problem, nearly everyone wanted action on this mon (including all of the council). With it's new Steel Beam 3a set creeping into the meta able to OHKO alot more mons and a complete departure from the healthier Heal Bell sets seen in Gen 8 and early Gen 9 Magearna has shifted from a powerful support pokemon into a suprise setup sweeper capable of OHKOing the vast majority of mons. Not really alot else to say I'm pretty sure everyone knows why this mon is going.
33% support ban, 22% support action, 44% think it's balanced
While Wake didn't get as much support as Magearna for action, with two of it's checks going to Ubers and it's already immensely restricting presence in both the builder and in game combined with little to no defensive counterplay beyond guessing its move correctly, Wake got enough support from council to be sent to its cousin Palkia.
44% support ban, 22% support action, 33% think it's balanced
Being the bulkiest mon in the tier, Giratina outright doesnt die to any single move besides Draco crits and introduces alot of variance between full paras, sedge and draco misses, and stone edge crits. Giratina is also very hard to check with its great coverage and its the best paralysis spreader in the tier. That being said, its the mon the council is most split on so its very likely there will be more discussion on this mon.
11% support ban, 22% support action, 66% think it's balanced
We'll be keeping a close eye on Treads as it already proved its dominance in the pre-Home metagame but currently there's very little support for any action from both the playerbase and the council.
17% support action, 83% think it's balanced, 100% of tier leaders regret adding an other option
Latios wasn't really on the council's radar but was thrown into the survey just in case. As expected, next to no support for action.
12% support ban, 12% support action, 75% think it's balanced
Same as Latios, wasn't really on people's radar but was added in in case anyone had thoughts about it.
While it wasn't on the survey, this mon IS in the councils radar so dont think we forgot about it (even though we did forget to add it to survey...)
Other Tiering Actions
Banning Draco Meteor or Steel Beam is not gonna happen any time soon. Koko is not on the councils radar currently but opinions may change later.
Can you give me likes so I can buy my family food thanks. Im gonna be doing a 1-5 scale next survey for the mons like a normal person I just copied R8s survey and I wont be adding an other option so teamo cant post ban magearna on every mon sorry teamo. Never ask me for any more tiering actions ever again unless its on Archeops.