Other Gen 6 NeverUsed Speculation

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Where there are winners, there are also the losers (although it's mean to call them that-- they try. They really do.) NeverUsed is the melting pot of NFE's and underpowered Pokemon where almost anything is viable if you play cleverly. Gen 6 is likely to provide a few drops from RU and a perhaps few straight-to-NU releases:

Potential New NU:
Aromataisse: Being part of the new, vast Fairy crew, there has to be one or two at the bottom of the barrel. Aromataisse, despite having a hideous, nightmare-inducing design, has a few things going for it. Its main flaw; a Base 28 Speed stat which means a Graveler could outspeed it. It has rather decent defensive stats at 101/72/89, and with the ability Aroma Veil it is essentially immune to Taunt (and Attract... Because that's supposed to be scary now). Aromataisse's typing and movepool allow a decent cleric set. Getting a Wish from 101HP is pretty fun especially in NU. Access to Aromatherapy, a rather nice Special movepool (and a base 99 Special Attack to boot) means that the perfumed anteater may be haunting more dreams than just mine (seriously, Hypno is less creepy looking than this thing).

Dedenne: The Electric/Fairy combination may be unique to Dedenne, but this is the only thing impressive about the Raichu clone. Subpar stats everywhere barring Speed, and a rather lacklustre movepool which is unfortunately geared towards its weaker Attack stat means that it isn't going to be making (shock) waves in high tiers anytime soon. To make matters worse, it has 67/57/67 defenses. If this thing survives a single attack it's lucky. Rai-two is definitely nowhere near the viability of the original orange electric mouse.

Carbink: Getting all of the fairies out of the way, Carbink will presumably be a premier defensive Pokemon for Gen 6 NU. Rock/Fairy is an interesting typing, but suffers from 4x Steel weakness (but they're rather sparse in NU) and many x2 weaknesses also. Carbink essentially plays like a Shuckle, setting up rocks with relative ease, and it can also dual-screen well enough also. Sturdy means you can comfortably run Leftovers which you'd need because this thing has no reliable recovery moves. 50/150/150 looks solid on paper but this gem-encrusted lump of rock isn't any defensive behemoth. Still, it does what it needs to do and will play well as a defender in NU.

Furfrou: Yeah, I'm done with the fairies now. Meet the generic Normal-type. Furfrou has an interesting niche as a defensive beast, thanks to the Fur Coat ability, decent 70/60/90 defences and base 102 Speed. It also has access to Cotton Guard to push it to +3 defence quickly-- in NU relative terms, this allows it to survive three Close Combats from Banded Sawk at max defence. Furfrou's main fault, however, is lack of recovery and a rather exposed Special Defence. Its base 80 Attack isn't going to shatter planets but with Sucker Punch, Wild Charge, STAB Return, and so on, it can certainly pick off weak opponents. Furfrou may not even wind up in NU, as it has great skill walling Physical hits, but its low HP and special defense are its downfalls.

Vivillon: I love this bug so much that I doubt it'll be NU, but we'll base its success on Butterfree for example. What sets it apart from its Quiver Dance amigos is Compoundeyes STAB Hurricane (a very nice reference to the Butterfly Effect theory). With a Quiver Dance under your belt you've got quite a force on your hands, even from a base 90 speed and special attack. Its dual STABs in the form of Hurricane and Bug Buzz work well in NU and RU and few resist the combination. Vivillon, however, has all the same problems its fellow butterflies have-- it's frail and almost requires a Sash to function, and has problems dealing with priority. Still, this little papillon will not disappoint.

Meowstic: Meowstic had all the makings of an interesting Pokemon-- two different move sets dependant on gender, and the abilities Prankster and Competitive. Meowstic-M is much more useful than the female: Priority DualScreens, Trick, and Yawn are its most useful tools and give it a unique niche in the game. With 80 Special Attack, Meowstic-F isn't as powerful as she should be for an attacker. That said, access to Calm Mind and Charge Beam, coupled with not-so-bad 74/76/83 defenses and 104 Speed, the problem can be alleviated. Competitive also allows for boosts if an Intimidater switches in, or if Sticky Web is down. But personally I'd pick the male for its supportive role.

Current NU Shakeups:
Assuming that Mega Evolutions are not tiered separately from their base forms, NU loses Mawile, Ampharos, Gardevoir, Kangaskhan, Charizard, Pinsir and Banette (even if only half of these were common, they will be missed). Thanks to Overcoat's new buffs, Mandibuzz is likely to leave too, and Scolipede with Speed Boost is jetting its way out of the tier faster than you can say Megahorn. Exploud and Chatot may also be leaving on account of Boomburst. With so much going and so little entering, NU is changing drastically.
As one example, Sawk finds itself with a lot less power than it did in Gen 5, as the newfound Fairies resist his Close Combat, and can easily KO him with their supereffective STABs. Belly Drum Linoone gets a little better too thanks to Play Rough. Defensively Eviolite users everywhere cry at the thought of a majorly buffed Knock Off, particularly Misdreavus and Metang (who is now weak to Dark). It's safe to say that things in NU are going to get a lot more interesting.

Aside from the listed Pokemon above, what do you think will be leaving NU, and what will be joining the depths of the tiers?
 
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I'm already (tearfully) preparing for my poor old buddy Hitmonchan to finally drop. He wasn't able to keep up with the power creep as it is, with other pokes like Conkeldurr and friends doing literally everything he does, only far better. If you ask me, he was lucky to cling on to RU last gen. However, the introduction of Fairies, and thus another fighting resistant type means that his viability has pretty much crashed through the floor - to hit fairies he has to use Bullet Punch or Poison Jab, which leaves less room for elemental punches, a strong fighting STAB like Drain Punch or CC, and Mach Punch as well. He is going to have terrible, terrible 4MSS syndrome now.

However, my loss might end up being NU's gain. For starters, it has access to Rapid Spin, making him the only spinner in the tier not weak to SR. It even has Foresight to outfox any would-be spinblockers. On the offensive front, you gain a versatile and fairly strong attacker, with strong, boosted priority and great coverage, much of which is also further boosted by his ability. He can even bypass priority entirely, by using Agility and going to town with Close Combat backed up with Ice and Thunderpunch. Also, if you're feeling a little daring, you can try out a devastating subpunch set - STAB, Iron Fist boosted Focus Punch is one of the most bone-crushingly powerful attacks in the game, let alone the tier.

There's a surprising amount of different things he can do, and that versatility and unpredictability might make him a strong player in NU.
 
I'm already (tearfully) preparing for my poor old buddy Hitmonchan to finally drop. He wasn't able to keep up with the power creep as it is, with other pokes like Conkeldurr and friends doing literally everything he does, only far better. If you ask me, he was lucky to cling on to RU last gen....
So true...but perhaps us Hitmonfans will be endowed with a stat boost or new moves, as has been the case with so many other mons this gen. Only time will tell...
 
I'm already (tearfully) preparing for my poor old buddy Hitmonchan to finally drop. He wasn't able to keep up with the power creep as it is, with other pokes like Conkeldurr and friends doing literally everything he does, only far better. If you ask me, he was lucky to cling on to RU last gen. However, the introduction of Fairies, and thus another fighting resistant type means that his viability has pretty much crashed through the floor - to hit fairies he has to use Bullet Punch or Poison Jab, which leaves less room for elemental punches, a strong fighting STAB like Drain Punch or CC, and Mach Punch as well. He is going to have terrible, terrible 4MSS syndrome now.

However, my loss might end up being NU's gain. For starters, it has access to Rapid Spin, making him the only spinner in the tier not weak to SR. It even has Foresight to outfox any would-be spinblockers. On the offensive front, you gain a versatile and fairly strong attacker, with strong, boosted priority and great coverage, much of which is also further boosted by his ability. He can even bypass priority entirely, by using Agility and going to town with Close Combat backed up with Ice and Thunderpunch. Also, if you're feeling a little daring, you can try out a devastating subpunch set - STAB, Iron Fist boosted Focus Punch is one of the most bone-crushingly powerful attacks in the game, let alone the tier.

There's a surprising amount of different things he can do, and that versatility and unpredictability might make him a strong player in NU.
I genuinely really like the sound of Hitmonchan in NU. It'd be nice to have a Spinner that isn't Wartortle or worse, one weak to SR (Delibird gets dishonourable mention for that, but Spikes immunity... Not all bad). Hitmonchan's high natural Special Defence means it could pull off Assault Vest sets well but it'd probably miss the extra power an item can provide. Honestly, if Hitmonchan does go NU, it could provide some interesting new options in the tier, and of course, interesting retaliations also.
 
Eelektross aka "The only Current Pokemon with No Weaknesses"

edit: Seismitoad seems to have the possibility to leave due to its attack stat buff
 
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outside of obvious crapmons like dedenne which will suck even in NU, there's no telling where the rest will end up. that said, I'm not sure what kind of good discussion can come from this thread.
 
How about Dragalge? His stats are pretty crappy, but if he goes all the way to the bottom, his STABs and potential as a Special Wall would probably be welcome here.
 
I really doubt that Dragalge will drop as low as NU. It might not be OU, but I'd be legitimately surprised if it dropped that far. Even with a pretty blah base 97 SpA stat, its Adaptability-boosted STABs are impressively powerful. Heck, Modest Dragalge's Specs Draco Meteor is hitting with nearly 20% more power than Timid Latios's Specs Draco Meteor, just to show how much damage it's capable of. STAB + Adaptability Sludge Bomb is essentially a 180 BP coverage move for killing Fairies, and it has quite a few other cool options in its movepool such as Thunderbolt, Surf, Scald, Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, and of course Hidden Power, along with pretty decent bulk. I wouldn't hold my breath about it dropping to NU, but if it does, it'll probably be one of the defining Pokemon of the tier.
 
With the weather nerfs, I could see Vulpix and Hippopotas being allowed in NU. This would be great, even though they are both awful pokemon otherwise.
As mentioned in the OP, Linoone got better. Play Rough is nice, but the better part is It is not hard walled by steel types. Ghost hits steel neutrally, meaning only pokemon like Bisharp resist the combo, who is hit by Play Rough.
How good will Vivilon be? Fantastic. Not as great as Venomoth, but STAB hurricane off of a decent 90 special attack is sweet.
I think we can say goodbye to Mandibuzz. The Knock Off and Defog Buffs have improved her significantly.
 
It's really difficult to have an NU tier with a game that's still so new- with different cart and sim metas, (and we don't know what will happen when they merge.) Especially considering that Smogon's philosophy is to have usage-based tiers with power-based Bordlerline and Uber tiers sandwiched along the ladder, since the new meta is still red hot with random stuff flying everywhere. Hell, it's difficult to say that RU and NU will even exist in 6th gen if the UU meta is robust enough.
 
Aromataisse: Being part of the new, vast Fairy crew, there has to be one or two at the bottom of the barrel. Aromataisse, apart from having a hideous, nightmare-inducing design, also has somewhat hideous viability. Two abilities with no use in singles, a Base 28 Speed stat which means a Graveler could outspeed it, and no known forms of recovery. It has rather decent defensive stats: 101/72/89 isn't the worst. Its main viable set is Calm Mind and three attacks: MoonBlast, Thunderbolt and Psychic are the best options and off a Base 99 Special Attack they can hurt in NU. However it can be outsped by basically anything and many things can monopolise on its lower Defense. Switching in safely may be an issue, but with careful prediction the perfume anteater can be beaten.
Serebii says this thing gets Wish as an egg move. With that, aromatherapy, decent defense stats and an excellent defensive type it has potential. And are we sure about the ability? If it affects itself in singles then Aroma Veil would give it taunt immunity, as well as a few other ones.
 
I certainly don't think you can put Carbink on the list as it's currently one of the 6 Pokemon that can use SR in non-Pokebank OU besides Smeargle.
 
2 more things.
With the advent of Mega Evolution upon us, a few pokemon will be leaving. Charizard, Ampharos, Mawile, Pinsir, Gardevoir, Banette, and Kangaskhan will all be in higher tiers. Kangaskhan and Charizard were top tier threats in NU, and Pinsir and Mawile were always solid. We will have to adjust.
Other than this, Copycat and Assist can no longer call Phazing or 2 turn moves. Other than Punchshroom crying in a corner, Riolu is completely done. Liepard will probably also fall, but it was a good pokemon regardless so it isn't hurt as much.
 
carbink is way better than you give him credit for, will be UU or RU. Furfrou will probably be a RU wall, it's not weak by any stretch.
 
The UU speculation thread is already on shaky ground, this thread is pointless.
5th Gen NU had great discussion threads on a pretty consistent basis. I'm sure this thread won't go to hell too quickly. Don't damn it before we can even get a good discussion going.

It's really difficult to have an NU tier with a game that's still so new- with different cart and sim metas, (and we don't know what will happen when they merge.) Especially considering that Smogon's philosophy is to have usage-based tiers with power-based Bordlerline and Uber tiers sandwiched along the ladder, since the new meta is still red hot with random stuff flying everywhere. Hell, it's difficult to say that RU and NU will even exist in 6th gen if the UU meta is robust enough.
We have over 700 Pokemon now; RU and NU are almost guaranteed tiers at this point. Most of the Pokemon that were NU last Gen haven't really changed enough to warrant them leaving the tier, either, so it doesn't make speculation on future trends that difficult. Until someone higher up on the chain of command deems this thread unnecessary, let's actually talk about the potential of Gen VI NU.

I, for one, am interested in how the Gen VI BST buffs are going to affect the NU metagame, considering that a lot of decent Gen V NU 'mons got some form of increase, like Butterfree, Golem, Unfeazant, Vileplume, Wigglytuff, Raichu, and Seismitoad.

EDIT: And no, Furfrou will not be an RU physical wall. It's mid-NU at best.
 
And no, Furfrou will not be an RU physical wall. It's mid-NU at best.
This is exactly what were talking about as far as the validity of this thread is concerned. UU speculation is hingent only on how OU shakes out, and even still its a crapshoot. NU is reliant on tiering in OU, UU, AND RU, so it is really hard to gauge. And yeah, NU did have great discussion threads in 5th gen... once the tier was actually formed, which occurred months down the line.
 
Seriously the only reason we can speculate on UU is the fact that we can play OU and get a decent idea of what isn't good enough to stay there and is likely to drop. Even then the impact of old favourites on the 5th gen UU metagame is going to be so drastic it's pretty tough to speculate how things will sit in the metagame there. I can't see how we can have any semblance of a realistic idea what NU is going to look like when we not only can't play RU, but have no idea what could potentially drop into it.
 
Other than this, Copycat and Assist can no longer call Phazing or 2 turn moves. Other than Punchshroom crying in a corner, Riolu is completely done. Liepard will probably also fall, but it was a good pokemon regardless so it isn't hurt as much.
And lo, a choir of Altaria did descend from the heavens as the mighty Arceus chastised the Pranksters. "Thou hath abused thine powers, and for this, you shall suffer".
...Anyhow. As you've said, this pretty much kills Riolu off as Copycat-Roar was its only niche. Liepard can start attacking with Prankster to assist its success, and SwagPard isn't entirely dead even if Klefki does it better (sigh).

Anyways, allow me to address a few things happening in this thread. Firstly, this is taking a glance forward to a time after the dust clears-- bringing up the fact that say, Carbink is one of a few SR setters pre-Pokebank doesn't really hold much weight in the tier system which probably won't be solidified until Feburary, as Pokebank will present so many changes that everything will be changed again. As you can see in this thread, things change all the time-- if Aromataisse does get Wish, it can perform a very effective Cleric set and will function a lot better than a CM attacker.

Let me just reiterate one thing-- no tier is stable at the moment. Everything could suddenly change in a moment when Pokebank comes out, or when the game's sequels are released.
NU has been a self-sufficient tier in many ways, seeing a few bans and drops every so often. For the most part, it stays as it is, with things becoming popular and unpopular in time.

That said if any moderator thinks the thread is being completely derailed delete it by all means.
 
This is exactly what were talking about as far as the validity of this thread is concerned. UU speculation is hingent only on how OU shakes out, and even still its a crapshoot. NU is reliant on tiering in OU, UU, AND RU, so it is really hard to gauge. And yeah, NU did have great discussion threads in 5th gen... once the tier was actually formed, which occurred months down the line.
Furfrou has lackluster bulk and a pitiful movepool. It has a useless SpAtk stat. Its best physical moves consist of U-Turn, Sucker Punch, Facade, Wild Charge, and Return, coming off of a base 80 Atk stat. Its support moves consist of Roar, Toxic, Cotton Guard, Substitute, and Thunder Wave. No ability could save this Pokemon from becoming NU. Come on.

EDIT: Forgive me, I forgot to list Work Up.
 
Any chance we will be seeing a new tier below NU for the true worst of the worst like Beedrill and Wormadon to compete in?
 
Any chance we will be seeing a new tier below NU for the true worst of the worst like Beedrill and Wormadon to compete in?
PU is an official thing already.

I won't be suprised if 700 mons means it becomes official, but thats just hand waving.

Really my main concern for NU is Swanna getting taken from us because of hypefog. And as far as megas;

1. Hasn't it been confirmed stones will be banned/tiered? So we wont be losing normals.

2. I'm really hoping at least one mega makes it down, probably aggron or heracross
 
Any chance we will be seeing a new tier below NU for the true worst of the worst like Beedrill and Wormadon to compete in?
Last generation, we actually had the embodiment of such an idea with PU, but it was an Other Metagame instead of an official tier (although it did win the Other Metagame of the Month and got a ladder for one month, which was really fun). I believe Antar has said before that he has no interest in creating a new tier this time around. If my memory serves me correctly, there was actually a bit of opposition toward creating RU last generation, but it was justified by the fact that we had a whopping 156 new Pokemon added to the total (more than any other generation in history). XY gave us less than 70 new Pokemon, so it probably won't be enough to justify a new tier. PU might rise up again as another popular metagame, but I highly doubt it'll be official.
 
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