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OK after realising my mistake i have theoried another flapple set because i always wanted this mon to be good
Flapple @ Aerial Ace
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Grav Apple
- Sucker Punch
- Dragon Rush
One of the main reasons i don't like flapple as a competitive pokemon is that it really needs the boost from Hustle to do some real damage, but my luck is terrible, so i came up with this, not a monster to start with but with aerial ace letting Bad luck go away, as well as that Dragon Rush is a more consistent move without the raw power of outrage but not being locked into it
There's an absurd number of things that get Hex, which doubles any move's power when the foe has a status. Or increases it by 65. I'm not sure what it would be here. Toxic Spikes is definitely going to see a lot of use for free status infliction, and poison types too to counter that.
This probably won't be relevant until HOME gives us Overqwil since these four are your only options right now, but Fell Stinger is funny. Kill something? Get +3 attack. It's like Moxie Deluxe.
Your Attack stat? Oh, you mean my attack stat. Very matchup dependent, but Foul Play as an item is funny when it works.
OK after realising my mistake i have theoried another flapple set because i always wanted this mon to be good
Flapple @ Aerial Ace
Ability: Hustle
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Grav Apple
- Sucker Punch
- Dragon Rush
One of the main reasons i don't like flapple as a competitive pokemon is that it really needs the boost from Hustle to do some real damage, but my luck is terrible, so i came up with this, not a monster to start with but with aerial ace letting Bad luck go away, as well as that Dragon Rush is a more consistent move without the raw power of outrage but not being locked into it
Depending on if it passes the pulse effect to other moves this could be interesting to say the Least
Clawitzer @ Dark Pulse/ Water Pulse
Ability: Mega Launcher
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Tera Blast
Same idea but better
Toxtricity @ Snarl
Ability: Punk Rock
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gunk Shot
- Fire Punch
- Wild Charge
Drifblim @ Explosion Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 168 Def / 88 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick - Defog
- Destiny Bond
- Protect / Thunder Wave
I don't know if that works, but if it does, you can make your opponent destroy itself after a single move. And when Azelf releases, it will be able to pull a similar set off its much better base 115 speed.
EDIT : As Low-Key pointed out, it does not work according to the Q&A. ("Itemized moves cant be knocked off or removed in any way such as Trick or Fling. Knock Off would remain 65BP")
So my bad and RIP.
Drifblim @ Explosion Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 168 Def / 88 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick - Defog
- Destiny Bond
- Protect / Thunder Wave
I don't know if that works, but if it does, you can make your opponent destroy itself after a single move. And when Azelf releases, it will be able to pull a similar set off its much better base 115 speed.
I'm pretty sure Itemized moves do not work with Trick or Knock Off, and as another note Itemized moves only work with damaging moves, so this is practically useless.
Sacred Sword + Sharpness gives Gallade a 1.5x power boost on all of its moves, making Gallade an incredibly strong wallbreaker. This boost also enables a +2 Tera Ghost Shadow Sneak to take down many neutral faster threats after minimal chip. Sacred Sword also has the added benefit of breaking through Defense boosts, which is especially useful against mons trying to abuse ID + Body Press.
Armarouge @ Expanding Force
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic Terrain
- Armor Cannon
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
Manual Terrain seems admittedly not great, but possibly with Indeedee support(although Indeedee doesn't seem to do much in this meta) gives Armarouge a means to boost the power of its moves by 1.5x, also making it difficult to switch into.
Arcanine @ Reversal
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Extreme Speed
This set is probably just cheese and not actually good, but if my understanding is correct, ESpeed will inherit the base power-changing properties of Reversal, so at 1 HP you will be able to use 200 BP Extreme Speed, which is quite humorous.
The Q&A also says that Swift doesn't pass its accuracy mechanics though. Personally I think it should probably work, since the secondary effect is to bypass accuracy checks entirely, but as written, it doesn't work. Ultimately trying to answer these kinds of questions is kind of arbitrary before the meta is coded, though.
While I'm here, some more sets I thought of:
Iron Thorns @ Volt Switch
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Dragon Tail
Roaring Moon @ U-Turn
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Giga Impact
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
Pivoting Dragon Tail, inspired by the current OMotM :) Unfortunately the users in Fortemons are pretty limited, but I found two pre-HOME options that I think are worthwhile. Because the secondary effects of the actual move happen before the item move, Dragon Tail forces your opponent's switch before you switch, which can gain you tons of momentum as you're guaranteed to get your counter out. The Iron Thorns set is built as a bulky pivot to wring as much out of Dragon Tail as possible. The other set is taking the opposite approach; firing off pivoting Outrages and Giga Impacts is super good. Dragon Tail is still useful here though; if you're confident your opponent is going to switch out, but not to a Fairy, you can eat up all their momentum with a well-timed tail.
Lokix @ U-Turn
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Leech Life
- Low Kick
- Sucker Punch
Okay this is just another VoltTurn set but listen it works here too okay??? Unfortunately you lose Band/HDB, so it requires significantly more support, but Tinted Lens First Impression is still doing like 40% to PhysDef Pex for instance. And on the bright side, no Band means no losing to Protect. If you're in against a slower mon you're pretty much guaranteed to survive and switch to a counter.
Masquerain @ Lunge
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Chilling Water
- Hurricane
- Quiver Dance
- Sticky Web
Okay, I doubt this is actually good, but it is funny. Intimidate + Lunge + Chilling Water gives your opponent -3 Attack in one turn, so if you can outspeed a physical threat you can probably neuter it. Masquerain also gets Quiver Dance, so the potential to set up on a declawed opponent is there, but unfortunately you are still using a Masquerain, so temper your expectations. If -3 is overkill, you also have Giga Drain as an item option, Foul Play if you want to forego Quiver Dance for some reason, and Icy Wind/Pounce or Struggle Bug for more stat drops. Mew can also do a special version of this with Snarl and Struggle Bug, but then, Mew can do pretty much any set it wants. I haven't been able to find anything else that can stack stat dropping moves, but I'm sure there are more.
Wo-Chien @ Absorb
Ability: Tablets of Ruin
Tera Type: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect/Knock Off
- Giga Drain
STAB Giga Drain with doubled healing makes this thing really obnoxious to kill. There's really not much more to it.
Hatterene @ Giga Drain
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Nuzzle/Mystical Fire/Dark Pulse
Giga Draining Kiss heals you for a massive 125% of all damage dealt. Draining Kiss's 50BP can be augmented with Tera Fairy and Calm Mind, the latter of which can be combined with Stored Power to make for a scary lategame cleaner. Psychic and Psyshock are also options, although Stored Power will outpace them after a few boosts. I suspect Hatterene will be a very dangerous wincon if you can remove physical attackers before sending it in.
Skeledirge @ Lick / Body Slam
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Hex
- Slack Off
- Will-O-Wisp / Tera Blast
Skeledirge can spread 2 different statuses with this set, Burn and Paralysis. they pair very well with Hex.
Tera Blast is optional if you want to surprise Dragon, Dark and Fighting-type pokemon with it.
Fell Stinger isn't banned? YOU FOOLS
Oh wait, its distribution sucks so bad that'd not even be ban worthy unless something comes out as a new form sucks
Fell Stinger isn't banned? YOU FOOLS
Oh wait, its distribution sucks so bad that'd not even be ban worthy unless something comes out as a new form sucks
Flail and Reversal are too dependent on your HP being as low as possible. You're stuck with 1BP moves across the board at max HP until you start taking damage, making it horribly inconsistent. Facade suffers from inconsistency similar to Flail to a smaller degree since you're relying on the fact that your opponent will status you. It could be good if Glimmora ends up being really popular due to the lack of HDB, but we'll have to see since your opponent could more easily take advantage of that with stuff like Venoshock or Hex.
Still a badmon but this is pretty sweet either way. You can do similar with Arboliva and Terrain Pulse but would rely on getting hit or setting terrain manually.
Hello all, I'd like to firstly say Fortemons is now live on PS (wooo). Second, you all might run into difficulties with trying to build, as you do not get an option to equip an attacking move into the item slot when you type it. The process is not very intuitive at the moment, but if you go into the importable window and type @ Hex for instance right next to the name, it will work. It works the same way if you were to copy and paste a set from this thread as well. We'll try to work and see if we can't get it to work in the item slot without the importable, but as of right now, to build you go into the importable and type @ (whatever attack you want).
Update: In battle, your item say "Mail." Despite that, it will use the move you have in the importable as intended.
What if your attacks could gain additional effects based on what attack is held in the item slot? Instead of holding an item, you can instead hold an attack, giving all of the attacks in your move-slots the primary and secondary effects of that held move. For instance: Braviary can hold Air Slash to give all of its attacks a 30% to flinch, or you can run Sheer Force on Braviary with Air Slash as its held move, giving all of its other attacks such as Brave Bird, the Sheer Force boost.
Rules:
Mechanic:
An attack put into the item slot will grant its primary and secondary effects to all of the attacks in the move-slots. The regular attack maintains its base power, accuracy, typing, physical or special, and original primary and secondary effects. Status moves cannot be put into the Item-slot, nor will they grant any additional effects in Fortemons. The mechanic will only work with attacks.
For example: Holding Fire Punch grants the properties of being a punching move, makes contact, and has a 10% to burn. Sludge Bomb would be a 90BP Special Attack with a 30% to poison, categorized as a bullet move, and boosted by Sheer Force, as well as the aforementioned effects gained through Fire Punch.
Strategy:
The ability to stack secondary effects means that both offensive and defensive Pokemon alike have newfound synergy with their already existing move-sets. Defensive Pokemon can mitigate their passiveness by stacking effects that give them increased odds to fish for status or by increasing their damage output through DoTs or stat decreases. Conversely, offensive threats can further augment their ability to sweep and wallbreak by using moves that lower the opponents stats or by creating offensive synergy through abilities such as Sheer Force or Tough Claws. Some Pokemon might also like to retain their Items, which could create mind games as to what they could be holding in the Item-slot.
Increased Viability:
Lycanroc-Dusk previously suffered from a lack of moves to utilize with Tough Claws. Fortemons allows Lycanroc to run Crush Claw in its item slot, granting all of its attacks Tough Claws boost, as well as a 50% to lower Defense by 1 stage.
Defensive Pokemon like Toxapex have taken massive hits due to the nerfs they've received. Toxapex can overcome its loss of Scald and Knock Off by using moves like Acid Spray, allowing its Chilling Water to simultaneously decrease Special Defense and Attack. Alternatively, Infestation can be used to trap and wear down opposing Pokemon while being able to fish for Poisons with Poison Jab.
How do Multi-Turn moves work?
-In the item slot, they would cause all attacks to have a charge turn.
How does Swift work? Does it grant 100% accuracy to all attacks?
-Itemized moves do not pass their accuracy on to move-slot moves.
How does Knock Off work?
-Itemized moves cant be knocked off or removed in any way such as Trick or Fling. Knock Off would remain 65BP.
How does move legality work?
-Pokemon can only use moves they have access to in the Item-slot.
Can I itemize a move and also use it as a moveslot?
-No, one or the other.
How do itemized effects stack with move effects?
-It is two separate rolls. If you would roll for a 30% Thunder paralysis and then roll for a 10% Thunderbolt paralysis for a 37% total chance, rather than adding 30+10 and having a 40% chance overall. When it comes to healing, you'll heal once for 50% (assuming Giga Drain) and then once again for 50% (assuming another move like Mega Drain)- so in this particular case, you'll be effectively healing additively for 100% of the damage dealt.
Which order do the primary/secondary effects occur?
-Both primary effects before both secondary effects, with the itemized effects happening second.
What happens if I stack secondary effects like contact moves in the Item-slot and Move-slot with abilities like Tough Claws or Sheer Force?
-Abilities are only applied once in Fortemons. For example, even if there's a contact move in both the item and the move slot, Tough Claws applies once. The same concept applies to abilities like Triage and Sheer Force.
What would happen if I had Tera Blast in the Item-slot and Terastallized?
-This would require testing. We are to assume that your move-slot attacks would change to either Special or Physical, as well as their typing accordingly similar to Tera Blast in this scenario.
Does Rage Fist and Last Respects pass its BP boosting?
-Both moves would pass their conditional BP boosts.
Does holding Body Press mean Special Attacks use the Defense stat for damage calculation?
Yes.
Bounce, Dig, Dive, Fly, Meteor Beam, Phantom Force, Shadow Force, Sky Attack, Solar Beam, Solar Blade
Mirror Coat/Counter
Metal Burst
Comeuppance
Draining Kiss
Flower Trick
Lumina Crash
Rage Fist
Salt Cure
Last Respects
Abilities:
Serene Grace
Pokemon:
Chien Pao
Iron Bundle
Flutter Mane
Roaring Moon
Espathra
Houndstone
Chi Yu
Iron Moth
Volcarona
Gholengo
Lycanroc-Dusk
Terastallization
Sample Sets:
Annihilape @ Drain Punch
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Rage Fist
- Brick Break
- Taunt
Annihilape gains increased longevity through Drain Punch granting all of its attacks 50% healing. Rage Fist can now scale to absurd levels while granting Annihlape a reliable way to deal large amounts of damage and healing it back, further improving its ability to stay alive and farm Rage Fist BP.
Chi-Yu @ Fire Spin
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flamethrower
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Flame Charge
A similar concept is applied here, only now it is for a set-up sweeper. Chi-Yu can trap your opponent's defensive checks with any of its attacks, allowing it potentially boost up with Nasty Plot or Flame Charge and sweep. Alternatively, Fire Spin can help turn potential 3HKO's into 2HKO's with the additional 12% that it grants. Along with Dark Pulse's flinch chance, you could potentially beatdown just about any wall given enough luck or boosts.
It'd only work if you're hit, but if you were to have Commeupance in item slot and use Crunch for example, two different potential situations could occur. 1) You're faster/do not get hit prior to using Crunch, it'd just be Crunch without any additional effects. 2) You're hit prior to using Crunch, which means that Crunch goes off and then the 1.5x from Commeupance happens.
Potential bug. Opponent's combination of volt switch in the item slot and overheat as the selected move crashed the battle. Issue is likely one of these or the combination. Moves with similar effects should be considered as well (u turn, flip turn, leaf storm, etc). It crashed his battle in a tour then this is the replay of us recreating it in a direct challenge so that I had a replay to post. Both times it happened at the end of the turn he used that combo.
Potential bug. Opponent's combination of volt switch in the item slot and overheat as the selected move crashed the battle. Issue is likely one of these or the combination. Moves with similar effects should be considered as well (u turn, flip turn, leaf storm, etc). It crashed his battle in a tour then this is the replay of us recreating it in a direct challenge so that I had a replay to post. Both times it happened at the end of the turn he used that combo.
Thanks for pointing this out. The current code for Fortemons is a work in progress right now, so this and a couple of other things will be fixed in due time. The last time Fortemons was playable was in Gen7, so it'll require a bit of work and time before it's good to go.
Thanks for pointing this out. The current code for Fortemons is a work in progress right now, so this and a couple of other things will be fixed in due time. The last time Fortemons was playable was in Gen7, so it'll require a bit of work and time before it's good to go.
According to Hisuian Zoroark in the OMM chat, the problem turned out to be an issue with the item rather than the move. Namely, it was holding an item, so it was trying to execute a move that didn't exist because it was looking for move properties in the item slot. I've been told it's been fixed already.
First replay my opponent and I are confused as to why my move didn't do anything. Second replay we were testing to replicate and find the cause. Heavy slam was failing to actually do anything but only when the target switched out by any means. I hypothesize the same issue would arise with similar moves (heat crash, maybe grass knot, etc). It functioned as expected when the target didn't switch out, and when I removed my item slot move for a third battle (see third replay), so the problem seems to be tied to the interaction between heavy slam and the item slot move I had selected on Ting-Lu (Payback).
Some of the banned moves don't have equipped effects, so if you unban them for a custom match they will do nothing (Tested Ruination, Solar Beam, Mirror Coat, assume their clones/equivalent to also have no effects). https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1774067352
Trapping moves don't stack, tested Whirlpool + equipped Infestation, the move in your moveset replace Infestation's name when hurting the opponent, Substitute breaks the trapping and passive damage https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1774076968
An intended interaction now, moves with conditional damage like Electro Ball and Low Kick replace the power of any move, the original power of the used move make no difference here (forgot to save the replay lol).
Rage Fist has no effects in the damage deal with fixed damage moves like Night Shade, but that's intended (I think).
Crit Chances are passed (they are Scope Lens basically), so Honchkrow can get a 100% Crit chance with Super Luck + Equipped Crit Move + Crit move. (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9fortemons-1774627673 this replay ends with that, it also includes some other interactions like spit up mechanics, gigaton doing nothing and lycanroc-d making contact).
There's an absurd number of things that get Hex, which doubles any move's power when the foe has a status. Or increases it by 65. I'm not sure what it would be here. Toxic Spikes is definitely going to see a lot of use for free status infliction, and poison types too to counter that.
This probably won't be relevant until HOME gives us Overqwil since these four are your only options right now, but Fell Stinger is funny. Kill something? Get +3 attack. It's like Moxie Deluxe.
Your Attack stat? Oh, you mean my attack stat. Very matchup dependent, but Foul Play as an item is funny when it works.
Miraidon
Koraidon
Palafin
Chien Pao
Iron Bundle
Flutter Mane
Roaring Moon
Espathra
Houndstone
Chi Yu
Iron Moth
Volcarona
Gholengo
Lycanroc-Dusk
