Foreign metagames

[adman2]

Sorry if there's already a thread about this, but I haven't seen one around that's recent. This is based on some limited experience with PBR 3 vs. 3, but I'll share my thoughts. If you've played with Japanese players, or seen any videos of them playing, then I'd like to see what you make of them. :)

Spiritomb seems to be popular, especially with Chesto Rest. Of course, since they don't play by Smogon rules, Garchomp with Yache Berry is still used, but is not selected for every battle like one may expect. They apparently value Underused Pokemon, since I've encountered a Furret with Trick, and a Raticate with Counter. I've even seen a kind of Infernape with a variant of the infamous Rattata set (Mach Punch instead of Quick Attack).

What other creative movesets have you seen from them, and how does their metagame differ from sites such as Smogon?

 

[Tucker]

Sorry if there's already a thread about this, but I haven't seen one around that's recent. This is based on some limited experience with PBR 3 vs. 3, but I'll share my thoughts. If you've played with Japanese players, or seen any videos of them playing, then I'd like to see what you make of them. :)

Spiritomb seems to be popular, especially with Chesto Rest. Of course, since they don't play by Smogon rules, Garchomp with Yache Berry is still used, but is not selected for every battle like one may expect. They apparently value Underused Pokemon, since I've encountered a Furret with Trick, and a Raticate with Counter. I've even seen a kind of Infernape with a variant of the infamous Rattata set (Mach Punch instead of Quick Attack).

What other creative movesets have you seen from them, and how does their metagame differ from sites such as Smogon?

I've seen double Darkrai.

 

[SkarmBlissFTW]

I've seen double Darkrai.

They don't even play by Species clause?!

 

[RBG]

PBR Random is not the best way to find out the Japanese metagame.

If anyone else actualyl knows things about how other countries play, that would be interesting. Here is a post of IPLs that I dug up

A glimpse at how another side of the world plays.
Statistics from the most well-known Chinese version of Smogon, and an explanation of the rules they go by that may influence these statistics:

Swords Dance and Nasty Plot are banned on all Pokemon with 560 or better base stats
Only one of the following may be in your team: All legends / Dugtrio / Tyranitar / Salamence / Metagross / Hippowdon / Gyarados / Deoxys-E / Garchomp / Armaldo is not allowed with a Sandstream Pokemon
Curse Snorlax and Curse Hippowdon are banned

Usage statistics (% chance that a Pokemon is used in a team)

              Sept   Oct     Nov     Dec
Tyranitar     22.64% 31.46% 36.25%  37.07%
Jirachi       11.80% 14.68% 15.39%  23.99%
Azelf         17.50% 21.56% 22.85%  23.11%
Machamp       12.70% 14.61% 15.60%  17.55%
Flygon        4.27%  5.30%  10.02%  12.73%
Heracross     13.95% 11.61% 11.12%  10.86%
Jolteon       8.02%  8.64%  8.97%   10.29%
Empoleon      4.13%  5.41%  6.83%   7.72%
Dugtrio       9.60%  9.30%  8.29%   7.67%
Gallade       7.72%  7.12%  6.63%   6.60%
Porygon2      4.55%  4.99%  5.65%   6.48%
Umbreon       5.38%  5.59%  6.25%   6.44%
Ludicolo      3.93%  4.11%  5.15%   5.59%
Ambipom       4.21%  4.28%  4.84%   5.04%
Roserade      6.04%  5.72%  5.32%   4.75%
Weezing       4.84%  3.94%  3.90%   3.56%

 

[Raverist]

Seems the nippongame is highly sand-centric, with Tyranitar being common as muck. The seeming lack of Lucario on that list instantly tells us that PBR should really only be used in two circumstances:

One, you wish to listen to corny comments by the announcer.

Two, you wish to test your new webcam in a battle against a sand team or Nubers.

Sadly I've yet to see a very good 3v3 game on PBR on the tube...but this isn't the end, for PBR is also home to some pretty good double battles.

By the looks of the above set, a standard team looks like Tyranitar/Empoleon/Flygon if you're running sand, and Jirachi/Heracross/Jolteon without.

 

[RBG]

Honestly, I don't know much about other metagames, I would have to ask someone else particpates in the Japanese metagame.

I wouldn't be surprised if they played Doubles with 4 pokemon

And no more talk about PBR

 

[MagneZoneIsAPunk]

yes on PBR All offence works good also we almost never set up rocks or spikes/toxic spikes, whereas on shoddy and wifi as it allows us to use 6 we almost always pack stealth rock because of all the switches this dosent mean that the english metagame is all offence.

Ill try to find some stuff im bored anyway =/

 

[Engineer]

...

I wonder if they're having the same conversation in japan.

 

[adman2]

A glimpse at how another side of the world plays.
Statistics from the most well-known Chinese version of Smogon, and an explanation of the rules they go by that may influence these statistics:

Swords Dance and Nasty Plot are banned on all Pokemon with 560 or better base stats
Only one of the following may be in your team: All legends / Dugtrio / Tyranitar / Salamence / Metagross / Hippowdon / Gyarados / Deoxys-E / Garchomp / Armaldo is not allowed with a Sandstream Pokemon
Curse Snorlax and Curse Hippowdon are banned

Is Armaldo banned with Sandstream because of the Special Defense boost? Also, do they not have an Uber tier, since all legends are allowed (albeit only one per team)? I can see why Curse Snorlax might be frowned upon, though Hippowdon doesn't have a lot of Special Defense, and Sandstream doesn't boost it.


Yeah, I suppose PBR is a poor indicator, since I hardly ever see Sandstream teams, while they seem to run rampant on Asian teams to the point where bans and restrictions often revolve around it. I just happened to encounter some Japanese players today, and I noticed a different playstyle. Thanks for the statistics, though!

Why is Umbreon used? Its only recovering move other than Rest is Moonlight, and with all the sand, that becomes useless very quickly. Maybe it's some kind of Mean Look and Toxic combination. . .

 

[MagneZoneIsAPunk]

wow scizor, tran and celebi not even the top 16...

also the nasty plot/swords dance ban on pokemon with over 560 base stat totals seems pretty wierd

the armaldo ban also seems kinnda stupid

 

[Trust]

I simply don't understand that OU Chinesse list... I can't
Where is Blissey? and Lucario? and Garchomp? and Salamence?!?!? However Ludicolo is there, as well as Umbreon... I can't understand it...

 

[obi]

Where did those Chinese statistics come from? Is there some Shoddy server I don't know about, or do they have their own program?

 

[MagneZoneIsAPunk]

I think i understand why they don't have scizor and chomp cause if swords dance and nasty plot are banned from pokemon with 560+ base stats then scizor and garchomp with swords dance would be banned.

but scizor and chomp own in general they just wouldn't be sweeping teams

 

[adman2]

I simply don't understand that OU Chinesse list... I can't
Where is Blissey? and Lucario? and Garchomp? and Salamence?!?!? However Ludicolo is there, as well as Umbreon... I can't understand it...

Due to the restriction, they likely think of Tyranitar as more beneficial than Garchomp (can't have both on the same team). Tyranitar is more of a team player, and therefore, all of the other Pokemon of its base stat total are out for most teams. Ludicolo, at least in my experience with using him (against U.S. players, of course), is surprisingly effective. He is likely valued by Asian players for his Ground resistance, and he has decent Special Defense.

I still have no clue why they use Umbreon, though!

 

[Magik0722]

But scizor has 500 base stats not 560

 

[Broth3r]

I was wondering the same obi, but I have absolutly no idea other than pbr/wi-fi.
We must not forget that Japan is the home of Nintendo, so you wouldnt be surprised if they use more "official" sets/pokes.

 

[Misa]

The Japanese/Chinese metagame confuses me. Unlike our metagame, the Japanese have a different tier list and usage (some of them don't make sense either).

The first thing that I noticed was that you are only allowed one pokemon that have 600 base stat points (there are exceptions like hippowdon and gyarados). As most of you guys are aware, I really don't like the fact that this rule is in play (although this brings out more diversity in the competitors' teams), along with the fact that swords dance is banned for pokemon who have 560 base stats or over (no Yachechomp T_T; no Plotzelf T_T)

The second thing I've noticed about this is that our most common OU pokes (such as scizor, gyarados, and salamence) are just about absent from the top 16 pokes that the Japanese use. Even though the Japanese have a hunch for promoting UU pokes, I find these statistics to be kinda ridiculous imo (and NO GARCHOMP? seriously?)

The last thing on my mind is how, curse snorlax and hippowdon are banned from this metagame. As you can see, curse snorlax is the main snorlax set out there, and I don't see why the Japanese had to bad it along with Hippowdon (curse hippowdon isn't that dangerous imo).

Also, I've heard rumours that the Japanese banned Swords dance heracross, although it's proven now that this isn't true.

I've seen double Darkrai.

you've gotta be kidding me. Lack of species clauses much.

 

[False [old]]

Garchomp is probably absent since, being a base 600 pokemon, it would be illegal under their rules to use the Swords Dance set. But then, that wouldn't stop people from using Scarf Chomp.

The other reasoning is probably that if they have to choose between Garchomp and a pokemon that has Sandstream, they would rather go with Tyranitar.

Just looking at their top 16, I can guess that they put much more emphasis on Weather than we do, just because Ludicolo and possibly Roserade are so popular.

I wish we could hunt down more of their competitve sites, it'd be interesting to see how they handed single battles.

 

[Misa]

responses in blue

Garchomp is probably absent since, being a base 600 pokemon, it would be illegal under their rules to use the Swords Dance set. But then, that wouldn't stop people from using Scarf Chomp.
Personally, I would use a band chomp for double battles, so chomp has more power. This extra boost in power should be able to stop weather pokes like roserade and ludicolo dead in its tracks without locking yourself into outrage. Plus CB chomp would 2HKO a lot more things too.

That's just me.

The other reasoning is probably that if they have to choose between Garchomp and a pokemon that has Sandstream, they would rather go with Tyranitar.
And there is a reason why Garchomp and T-tar/Hippowdon shouldn't be allowed on the same team? If the Japanese care so much about the weather, they have no excuses not to let garchomp and a sand-streamer together, especially if there is a reason garchomp is allowed in the first place.

I wish we could hunt down more of their competitve sites, it'd be interesting to see how they handed single battles.
I think there are some videos of single battles on youtube. It's so rare though compared to the double battles though.

 

[Jibaku]

Let's try to not insult their metagames shall we?

I'm aware that it's considerably different than ours (at least for the Chinese), but just because not the same kind of Pokemon are used there doesn't mean you could say they're stupid or something. Who knows? They might have a balanced metagame with their own extremely convoluted rules, and they're fine with it.

The back of my head tells me the Japanese metagame is somewhat similar to ours, though, but funkier and possibly more erratic. Though I can only base this on the surprises I keep on falling into in PBR.

I remembered while looking through Google before, Japanese players probably play with Item Clause (I saw some JP teams before; never came across one without it). Garchomp is probably OU, as well as the Lati@s (latter is debatable).

 

[TDS]

I've heard from some people that Lanturn and Lapras are both OU for there ability to counter bulky waters easily

 

[Misa]

The back of my head tells me the Japanese metagame is somewhat similar to ours, though, but funkier and possibly more erratic. Though I can only base this on the surprises I keep on falling into in PBR.

Last time I checked, Lati@s was considered banned in all Japanese tournament (not sure right now though). If the japanese think garchomp is OU, I'm totally fine with it.

Also, the Japanese metagame seems considerably different from our metagame, due to the pokemon they use and the more emphasis they put on weather. I can't find any single battle videos to prove this, since they're so hard to find on youtube.

 

[Green Mage]

It could be that they set those rules to prevent their metagame from being bogged down by standards.

They only have seven pokemon over 10% usage.

 

[Haku16]

in japan Lati@s is only uber when holding souldew. also they have no real tier list all the have is Ubers. i personally love the metagame in japan cause when talking about poemon that are UU in with OU pokemon people frown upon it unlike in japan where they can think of different strategies and there usefullness. =D

 

[Boingo]

Only one of the following may be in your team: All legends / Dugtrio / Tyranitar / Salamence / Metagross / Hippowdon / Gyarados / Deoxys-E / Garchomp

Wow. Actually, playing this along with Item Clause sounds like a great way to bring some diversity into a competitive Metagame.