Move Facade

[Lee]

So it's increasingly common knowledge now but I'm reliably informed that there has been a change to the mechanics of the move 'Facade.'

Word is that when under the Burn condition and using Facade, the negative attack modifier no longer applies. A burnt Pokemon using Facade attacks with a 140BP attack from an un-halved attack stat.

Potential applications? Few, I admit. But there are physical Pokemon with empty moveslots that could benefit.

Terrakion @ Choice Band
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Facade

Terrakion traditionally used a less situationally useful attack in that slot anyway - should you catch a burn you're no longer dead weight; 140BP is only slightly less powerful than Stone Edge's 150BP.

Garchomp @ Yache Berry
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Facade

A hastily constructed set but it's more the concept that I wanted to showcase. This Garchomp (replace with Swords Dance/Dragon Dance etc user of your choice) has a psuedo-Guts that permits him to set up in the face of Will-o-Wisp/Scald users should the situation call for it. It's not a 'get out of jail free' card but there is potential for a burnt physical sweeper to sweep with Facade in the right circumstances and if you're put into a situation where you need to grab a SD against Rotom-W then...so be it.

+2 burnt Garchomp Facade vs 252/0 Rotom-W = 92% - 108%.

Lum Berry is probably better, yes, but freedom to use a different item may be attractive to certain Pokemon (Facade Marowak, heh).

Let's see some more suggestions.

 

[FurryGah]

I could see using this on Khangaskan as one of the more popular ways to attempt to deal with it would be to burn it. But, with Facade, you just gave it a 140 bp stab attack that hits twice. Very scary indeed.

 

[Richitt]

I like the Terrakion idea.
Seeing as he already had such god coverage with 3 moves, he could use that last one to get rid of a potential counter on him.

 

[farranpoison]

I could see using this on Khangaskan as one of the more popular ways to attempt to deal with it would be to burn it. But, with Facade, you just gave it a 140 bp stab attack that hits twice. Very scary indeed.

MKanga doesn't need Facade, because most of the time it'll be burned by a Ghost, and you won't be able to Facade Ghosts unless you didn't MEvo, in which you'd do meh damage anyway.

I honestly don't think Facade is a useful move on random physical attackers just in case they get burned, because then they're still walled by Steel/Rock types.

Facade is usually better for Normal types, and even then, most Normal types running Facade have Guts already. Actually, the Facade buff may help Zangoose somewhat in case it gets somehow Burned before it can activate Toxic Orb. But other than that, I don't think Facade will be used besides Guts users.

 

[Shroomisaur]

This is a very interesting change. Considering WoW is flying everywhere in this meta, Facade is suddenly a great option for anything that fears Burn and has a spare moveslot - your Terrakion set is a perfect example.

However, the big problem with Facade is that WoW is most commonly used by Ghost-types, which are immune to Facade anyway. Because of this, its uses will be limited... however...

Scrappy. Yep, Kangaskahn fans, you know what this means? Sableye is no longer a counter thanks to Scrappy Facade. Check this out:

252+ Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 68-82 (22.3 - 26.9%)
+1 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 262-309 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after PuP)

Bwahaha. RIP Sableye. Kangaskahn's only decent counter has vanished. From there it can Mega-Evolve and begin to wreck everything in sight with Facade since your Ghost-type has fallen.

+1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Facade (140 BP) vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, guaranteed with Stealth Rock

 

[ColtCababa]

Interesting. I can see this as a usable option for Mega Pinsir, with Aerilate changing it to an alternate STAB Flying-type attack to use if it receives the occasional Burn. However, the inability to hold a Toxic/Flame Orb may offset this. Still a nice concept, though.

 

[farranpoison]

Oooh crap, I totally forgot about Mega Pinsir. Not sure if it's worth fishing for Burns to get the Facade boost though over Return, and you'll also lose Quick Attack/Coverage move power.

And daaaaamn, I didn't think Sableye would get creamed that badly by Kangaskhan Facade.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Interesting. I can see this as a usable option for Mega Pinsir, with Aerilate changing it to an alternate STAB Flying-type attack to use if it receives the occasional Burn. However, the inability to hold a Toxic/Flame Orb may offset this. Still a nice concept, though.

Remember, holding Flame/Toxic Orb is only a good strategy for Pokemon with Guts. Facade's 140 BP isn't a big enough boost from Return's 102 to justify wasting your item slot AND suffering constant residual damage. That said, Facade is still an excellent option on Mega Pinsir, considering it changes to Flying-type and is perfectly capable of smashing Ghost-types.

Also, don't think of Facade as something you "need" to get burned for. 140 BP is not that powerful that you should actively seek out status, because Burn will still cripple your other attacking options. Facade is best on something that has a spare moveslot and fears Burn, because it allows you to keep up powerful hits even while crippled .

 

[DaiGuren]

Dam thats scary. Might be niche, but hey, status absorbers do exist in gen 6 metagame, with the change in the mechanics of burn and par

Also, snorlax is gonna love this?

Edit: will this ignore stat drops? like Intimidate for example.

 

[ColtCababa]

Remember, holding Flame/Toxic Orb is only a good strategy for Pokemon with Guts. Facade's 140 BP isn't a big enough boost from Return's 102 to justify wasting your item slot AND suffering constant residual damage. That said, Facade is still an excellent option on Mega Pinsir, considering it changes to Flying-type and is perfectly capable of smashing Ghost-types.

Also, don't think of Facade as something you "need" to get burned for. 140 BP is not that powerful that you should actively seek out status, because Burn will still cripple your other attacking options. Facade is best on something that has a spare moveslot and fears Burn, because it allows you to keep up powerful hits even while crippled .

Of course. Derped comparing Facade with Guts.

That said, I realize now that it doesn't change in effectiveness with Guts, as the Ability alone negates the Attack drop. But it should see a bit more use on Pokemon normally crippled by Burn.

 

[DaiGuren]

A burned mon using Facade is comparable to using a neutral STAB'd move with 93.333 bp. That's pretty scary enough.

 

[Ash Borer]

dual type physical normals definitely enjoy this. Staraptor's brave bird is the STAB of choice, and double edge is nearly redundant with it, facade is fantastic filler that renders a burned staraptor very strong still. Diggersby is another good choice.

Mega mawile is basically a burn magnet, normal isnt a great offensive choice, but still, on a 4 attack set, its good filler.

 

[Cshadow]

dual type physical normals definitely enjoy this. Staraptor's brave bird is the STAB of choice, and double edge is nearly redundant with it, facade is fantastic filler that renders a burned staraptor very strong still. Diggersby is another good choice.

Mega Mawile is basically a burn magnet, normal isn't a great offensive choice, but still, on a 4 attack set, its good filler.

I don't know if Mega Mawile really wants to forsake a slot for Facade. Mawile actually has a pretty damn good physical move pool, and can pick and choose which Pokemon are able to switch into it because of that. Play Rough / Sucker Punch / Ice Punch / Knock Off hurts quite a few Pokemon, and the only Will-O-Wisp users he can't be EV'd to outrun (without sacrificing a lot of power, in the case of Rotom-W) are Sableye, Rotom-W, and Gengar, two of which Facade is absolutely useless against.

That said, Facade is definitely a nasty surprise for unsuspecting Rotom-W who won't attack in fear of being beaten around by Sucker Punch, which does 37.1 - 44% to 252 HP / 252 DEF (Bold) when un-boosted. Facade will smack him around for 65.1 - 76.6%, which should be enough to kill it given enough switch-ins to Stealth Rock and some prior damage. It could be useful depending on how you build your team, I suppose.

As Lee said, the applications of Facade seem really limited. It really wishes it had 90 base power and only had a 1.5 multiplier when the user was statused. Then it might be worth the slot on Pokemon like Pinsir, who could get away with sacrificing a bit of base power for the ability to smash through teams while burned. Weakness Policy Dragon Dance / Agility Dragonite might be able to use Facade over something like Outrage since Fairy-type is everywhere and Dragon / Fire / Normal is only walled by Heatran, who is 2HKO'd by a +2 Facade if he's taken any prior damage in addition to switching into Stealth Rock, and the 2HKO is guaranteed if he's at +3, but you'd be hard pressed to justify using it over Earthquake, which would probably be more useful overall. Still, though, this doesn't look too horrible:

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
252 ATK / 4 DEF / 252 SPE
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance / Agility
- Facade
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw

 

[Exeggutive]

I use it on my scarf diggersby over wild charge.

I wouldn't recommend switching into shit like rotom for the burns but it's a really cool move if toxic spikes are up.
It really throws people off guard since normally a burnt diggersby is completely useless.

 

[Jaroda]

Haxorus@Life Orb/Leftovers
Mold Breaker
Jolly etc.
~ Dragon Dance
~ Outrage/Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake
~ Poison Jab/Facade

Haxours has typically never needed much more than Outrage and EQ to do its job. Poison Jab was a good move to hit Togekiss, Azumarill and Florges but a Facade can potentially save your sweep too if you get burned since a Facade with Burn is certainly stronger than a super effective Poison Jab with Burn. Typically I outright prefer Lum Berry since when everything is weakened and it's end game sweeping time Paralysis can arguably be a worse status effect than Burn is.

 

[pyrocat]

I don't know if Mega Mawile really wants to forsake a slot for Facade. Mawile actually has a pretty damn good physical move pool, and can pick and choose which Pokemon are able to switch into it because of that. Play Rough / Sucker Punch / Ice Punch / Knock Off hurts quite a few Pokemon, and the only Will-O-Wisp users he can't be EV'd to outrun (without sacrificing a lot of power, in the case of Rotom-W) are Sableye, Rotom-W, and Gengar, two of which Facade is absolutely useless against.

That said, Facade is definitely a nasty surprise for unsuspecting Rotom-W who won't attack in fear of being beaten around by Sucker Punch, which does 37.1 - 44% to 252 HP / 252 DEF (Bold) when un-boosted. Facade will smack him around for 65.1 - 76.6%, which should be enough to kill it given enough switch-ins to Stealth Rock and some prior damage. It could be useful depending on how you build your team, I suppose.

Play Rough / Sucker Punch / Facade / Swords Dance

The following calculations are without SR up:

252+ Atk burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 240-283 (78.9 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. If they're running Calm, it's an easy 1HKO.
252+ Atk burned Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 249-294 (95 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk burned Mega Mawile Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 272-320 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk burned Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 480-565 (157.8 - 185.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk burned Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 498-586 (190 - 223.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk burned Mega Mawile Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 543-639 (178.6 - 210.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Gengar and Sableye can't even take hits from a burned M-Mawile. Rotom-W can, but with Facade it gets OHKOed.

 

[dragonizzlenite]

It might be useful for Guts Heracross for after it Mega Evolves.

 

[ALB3R]

i use facade on an adamant protean keckleon and works fine, it get backs to normal type and hit with stab. it can get rid of rotom w. too my moveset is:
Facade
Power up punch
Shadow sneak
Sucker punch

 

[deluge]

The first thing that came to my mind on seeing this thread is a mixed attacker with no other physical attacks but Facade.
Eventually I came up with Exploud: Scrappy + STAB Boomburst and STAB Facade would give it effective 210 BP attacks from both sides under status.
Spam Boomburst with Facade mainly for Special walls. I suppose it could also run a Status Orb and leave everything guessing as to what it's going to fire off.
But I'm thinking it'd prefer Leftovers, Silk Scarf or Assault Vest, given its good HP but moderate speed and defenses.

Scrappy Exploud: Boomburst | Facade | Focus Blast | Power-up-Punch (Fire Blast.Overheat)

Normal + Fighting covers everything due to Scrappy but a Fire attack could be run as a more accurate response to Steels.
PuP will disturb a special wall that wants to status Exploud and wait out its demise while healing. It'll be overwhelmed.
I doubt it can work in OU since Exploud is kind of frail and slow and I haven't tested it at all.
But a mixed attacker syngergizes with Facade's ignoring the burn debuff while Exploud is almost tailor-made with STAB, Scrappy, and decent mixed offenses.
So I'll keep this in mind for when the lower tiers start to materialize.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Machamp with guts, nothing else. (Although no guard can be seen as a better ability.)

Guts

252 attack/252 HP/ 4 defense.

Item: Flame orb

- Facade (Base power = 70, boost equals 140, guts boost = + 50 % attack, get ready to destroy some shit)
- Protect (Get your flame orb up, it shouldn't be a lead pokemon)
- EQ (Coverage)
- Stone edge/Ice punch (Get the flying types)


So as you can see, facade with max attack guts machamp can pretty much be an easy OHKO. This is the best way to use facade, honestly

 

[Martingale]

This is the news I really wanted to hear, because I desired to run a mono-attacking RestTalk Ursaring and I found Toxic Orb to be troublesome with Quick Feet:

(Bear (heheh) in mind that this is more designed for NU than OU, and a WIP, I know it's majorly flawed)

Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
Bold Nature, 192HP/252Def/64Spe
-Facade
-Bulk Up
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Ursaring has a behemoth 130 Attack stat, so even uninvested it's quite impressive. His passable 90/75/75 defenses are made quite solid with max investment on the physical side (the only SE hits he needs to tank are CC's from Sawk and Zangoose, for example, and 1HKOs back easily). 64 Speed EVs means with a Quick Feet boost, you outpace uninvested base 103s, but fall flat in outspeeding neutral nature max investment base 72s, and max speed Base 61s. (Basically this should scream "Guts is better!" but in NU this is pretty decent, particularly for a bulky mon).

The idea is simple: boost hard. Rest when you're feeling low. Sleep Talk, boosting more and hitting damn hard with Facade. Wake up and repeat.

Isolate and remove Rock/Steel types and Ghosts. Sawk, with CC and Knock Off, does this in style and makes an awesome partner to Ursaring.

 

[Hidious]

Machamp with guts, nothing else. (Although no guard can be seen as a better ability.)

Guts

252 attack/252 HP/ 4 defense.

Item: Flame orb

- Facade (Base power = 70, boost equals 140, guts boost = + 50 % attack, get ready to destroy some shit)
- Protect (Get your flame orb up, it shouldn't be a lead pokemon)
- EQ (Coverage)
- Stone edge/Ice punch (Get the flying types)


So as you can see, facade with max attack guts machamp can pretty much be an easy OHKO. This is the best way to use facade, honestly

Close combat is more powerful than facade. This set is just a terrible idea

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Close combat is more powerful than facade. This set is just a terrible idea

No, it's actually a pretty good set. Not every pokemon that can learn CC needs to have it. If it really tickles your jimmies, replace protect with CC. But facade with this set will be an easy OHKO as long as the user isn't fighting mega gengar. But sure, CC could replace protect or EQ.

Also, you didn't explain shit about how it is more powerful. If you explained literally anything, I could give credit. Sorry bro, but you really suck at trying to make me look stupid.

 

[Hidious]

No, it's actually a pretty good set. Not every pokemon that can learn CC needs to have it. If it really tickles your jimmies, replace protect with CC. But facade with this set will be an easy OHKO as long as the user isn't fighting mega gengar. But sure, CC could replace protect or EQ.

Also, you didn't explain shit about how it is more powerful. If you explained literally anything, I could give credit. Sorry bro, but you really suck at trying to make me look stupid.

I'm not trying to make you look stupid. Close Combat has 180 BP while facade while burned has 140. Normal is a terrible coverage option with machamp so facade isn't at all useful. You are much better off going with no guard and dynamic punch, but if you want to use guts for some reason (heracross is a much better guts user) then go with close combat, stone edge, thunder punch and ice punch. Knock off is also a good option.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

I'm not trying to make you look stupid. Close Combat has 180 BP while facade while burned has 140. Normal is a terrible coverage option with machamp so facade isn't at all useful. You are much better off going with no guard and dynamic punch, but if you want to use guts for some reason (heracross is a much better guts user) then go with close combat, stone edge, thunder punch and ice punch.

With facade you aren't adding the guts boost. I was just throwing out some ideas on how to use facade. If you want to use heracross, then use heracross.