And that's why Double Team should be unbanned. Because it's bad and bad players will use them, while good players won't. Who cares if a bad player gets a lucky win? Let them! It won't be sustainable long term.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Evasion
- Thread starter Alopex
- Start date
- Status
You are bad.
I'm not really sure why you would. I mean, Whirlwind Staraptor is perfectly viable.
Bad players could also use Moody and OHKO moves to get lucky and win. Bad players have probably used everything that is now banned at one time. That doesn't mean that good players won't use it, it doesn't mean that its any healthier for the metagame, and that doesn't take away from the fact that evasion moves rip the carpet out from under the feet of skill in place of blind luck. Let the bad player win because of luck? How is that healthy in a competitive metagame?
Gengar used Focus Blast!
Gengar's Focus Blast Missed!
Tyranatar used Crunch! It's Super Effective!
Gengar Fainted!
If you want a game that never has luck, play something different then Pokemon
The point is to have a game where the strategy isn't luck though. If evasion was unbanned, the game would become solely based upon luck, instead of luck being one of many factors including skill and brains.
No offense, but could you please read my earlier posts? I've already responded to both of the concerns in this thread.
See, here's what I was talking about with my comment concerning Smogon's switch-to-a-counter metagame. You're operating on the assumption that a single team should be able to counter all threats. That's an artifact of the way Smogon's metagame has evolved and isn't carved in stone. It isn't necessary to keep the game skill-based. Sometimes you may lose a game due to type match-ups, or whatever. It'll balance out over time on the ladder and the best player will eventually come out on top.
Of course I'm not arguing that every team should have a 100% counter every possible evasion user. All of the evasion-defeating moves have other uses as well. Possible evasion users are just something you would take into account when building a team, and it might shift you slightly toward certain moves and tactics.
Also, how do Roar and Whirlwind do nothing against Baton Pass teams? What am I missing there?
Please define "worst". Do you mean "most annoying"? Because I have a hard time believing a Bidoof with max evasion and no other boosts is going to be a threat.
For God's sake. When you use Focus Blast you know you are running that risk. You have no one to blame on that but yourself because you KNEW that Focus Miss is Focus Miss.
Facing a 6 mon Double Team team is just bullshit.
But that's the point. It wouldn't. Because relying on luck is a good way for you to lose most of the time.
Heck, I don't really even care if Double Team is banned or not. It's a bad move that's just annoying to face, it doesn't guarantee victory. My main annoyance is that Sand Veil and Snow Cloak are banned.
Personally, I don't think you should need to take the possibility of missing every single attack into consideration when you build a team
I'm sorry, am i missing something? Because last time I checked, you can't lose a battle if you don't get hit by any attacks.
No, you can't counter everything, but that's generally due to the raw number of threats in the metagame that have to be prepared for. Trying to prepare for evasion just adds a whole other layer onto it. You're not preparing for some sweeper or wall, you're preparing for the RNG, which is out of the hands of both players. It doesn't make things easier that every single Pokemon in the game capable of learning TMs can get Double Team, so it's not like there's just one or two abusers out there. If that were so, I might not care as much.
In that case, I'm not sure what there is left to say. If you honestly think it's a good idea to carry a bunch of evasion methods just to keep from getting screwed over by the luck of the draw, then we're just coming at these from WAY different starting points.
Magic Bounce Espeon is standard fare on Baton Pass teams. It blocks phazing moves.
No, "most dangerous." The other stat boosts rarely ever made the impact that the evasion boosts did. Most Moody Pokemon had a hard time succeeding without enough evasion boosts. And yes, Bidoof with Substitute + Protect + Toxic was very capable of sweeping Ubers teams with enough evasion. I'm sure if you ask around, you can find someone with an old log or replay of it. There's probably plenty of videos of Bidoof sweeps on Youtube as well.
yeah if you're just going to ignore other people's arguments, then I dont know why you expect others to read anything you have to say.
And when you are making your team, and don't choose to include the 100% accurate solutions available to you, it's you running that risk a 6 mon double team will sweep you because you KNEW that was a possible team if evasion is active. you have no one else to blame but yourself.
Heck, I don't see why everybody isn't going to be running Defog anyways.
Unblockable hazard removing is too useful for any team to pass up, the fact that it removes stat boosts is just the final nail in the coffin for evasion.
Unblockable hazard removing is too useful for any team to pass up, the fact that it removes stat boosts is just the final nail in the coffin for evasion.
Ok, but just think about what you're saying for a second. Whirlwind Staraptor? It hardly has the bulk to take a hit at all, much less take one to use Whirlwind. Some of those things you mentioned were good (Skarmory and Hippowdon, for example), but a lot of them (Staraptor, Lucario, Terrakion, Volcarona, etc.) are either terrible phazers or have way better things to do with their time.
OK I admit I secretly want evasion back so Special Lucario becomes the more popular set.
I strongly agree with this. I wish a lot of the moves that are globally available had a much smaller learn-base. Toxic and Substitute included. The fact that all 'mons can use Double Team is ridiculous.
I think that's a big part of it. I probably automatically assume 3v3 flat battles for most of my thought processes, and with a sideboard of 3 Pokémon, you can more easily afford to use a moveslot on pHazing, etc. Of course, unless you're playing best 2 out of 3, you still don't know if or which opponents have Double Team. Luckily Minimize has a small learn-base and that's the bigger threat.
Gotcha. I wonder if that's still the case in 6th gen. Speaking of, we should probably check to make sure evasion actually provides the same miss chances it used to.
Dang.
he wasn't asking me to create a good phaser.
He was asking me to counter his evasion based gliscor.
Wait, what? Defog removes all stat boosts? Where did you hear/see that? That doesn't sound right.
Oh wait I misread it, nevermind. What it does do is lower evasion. Still the same "killing Double Team once and for all" thing.
Wouldn't gliscor carry ice fang though?
None of those whirlwinds would work with Taunt, which he listed as an option. Try again, champ in the making.
(PS: unsure if you're just trolling or you genuinely believe in making the game awful and somehow don't understand why this would make the game awful, but keep it up, I'm laughing my ass off.)
Or since he's wasting his turns spamming Double Team, I KO the annoyance and beat the bad player.
- Status