I'll get to this at length soon.
Also, we don't need to fucking ban everything that affects luck...
It makes the difference of an 80% accurate Flamethrower or a 65% accurate Fire Blast (if the evasion is additive not multiplicative, I'm not completely sure).
Evasion is multiplicative, it's an 80% Flamethrower vs. a 68% Fire Blast for future reference.
someone earlier said:
They're practically useless with some Pokemon but as we all know, even 5% or 10% chance is too much. If you're meant to win, shouldn't it be 100% chance of victory with skill, not 90% due to luck?
By that logic we should ban Thunderbolt, Thunder, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Flame Wheel, Rock Side, Iron Head, Bite, Focus Band, Quick Claw, and anything else with a primary or secondary effect that depends on luck.
What's great about Pokemon is the combined aspects of skill and luck. Pokemon is not chess.
Secondly, things shouldn't have to prove their worth in the metagame to stay in it. Unless something is far too broken to exist in a metagame, it shouldn't be banned. Brightpowder and Lax Incense, the latter receiving no usage ever, were banned in all metagames ever, including retroactive decisions in the cases of ADV and DPP, for being "uncompetitive" under a suspect testing method so flawed it was removed one round later. Yeah, maybe it's time to do the right thing and bring Powder and Incense back.
There are two major "treatises" on banning we have here, and those are Smogon's Philosophy and Characteristics of a Desirable Metagame, and honestly under both of those BP/LI would not be banned in my opinion. Smogon's Philosophy says that something should be banned only if it's far too powerful to exist in the metagame. Obviously, that's not the case. Brightpowder and Lax Incense are arguably two of the worst items in the game.
The other one, CDM (for short), also would not support a Brightpowder ban. Though I recognize Smogon's Philosophy as the final word on what should be banned, CDM is still widely accepted as the definitive post on what the metagame ideally should be.
CDM proposes 8 points on what the metagame should be:
1.
CDM said:
Competitive
The metagame should encourage players to play to win.
Banning two items with little impact on the metagame is not "uncompetitive". Things like Double Team, which can turn Pokemon into a veritable crapshoot, are because they introduce so much luck into the game numerous games hinge on luck. Brightpowder and Lax Incense cost a valuable item slot, rarely ever work, and are insignificant to the grand scheme of things. Hardly "uncompetitive".
2.
Variety
The metagame should have the widest possible variety of playing options and strategies that are viable and competitive for knowledgeable players.
By banning BP/LI, you reduce the variety of the game by a very small degree. This, though to a very small extent, goes against the CDM and should be a strong reason to reverse the ban in Round 3.
3.
Balance
All viable playing options and strategies should be as competitively balanced as possible, in relation to each other.
Brightpowder and Lax Incense don't balance or unbalance anything.
4.
Stability
The metagame should have stable content that is consistent over time.
Again, no problems here.
5.
Adherence
The metagame should adhere as closely as possible to the rules, mechanics, and spirit of the actual Pokemon game.
This might be the strongest reason against the complex ban of extending evasion clause. The mechanics of the actual Pokemon game do not allow complex bans, moveset bans as a result, or complicated policy that would unnecessarily complicate the OU metagame. Having to make non-simulator players research complex bans, strategies, and moveset restrictions really zap the fun of Pokemon and definitely go against the spirit of the game.
Also, banning almost irrelevant items really isn't in the spirit of the game either, now is it? I mean, Game Freak gave us these items as a strategy to implement when playing. Smogon decided, through its usage statistics, that Brightpowder and Lax Incense are about as important as Budew and Combee. Is making a ban on these items really necessary?
6.
Skill
The metagame should require knowledge and practice to become an expert player and to achieve consistent success at the highest levels of play.
Some pro-ban people might think that this is why luck should be banned; however, this might be one of the best reasons against the BP/LI ban and especially the complex ban because of this Issue/Concern proposed by Doug:
DougJustDoug said:
Don't add artificial complications to increase skill requirement
If Sand Veil, Snow Cloak + Sandstream and Snow Warning isn't an artificial complication to increase skill requirement then I don't know what is...
(same goes with BP/LI, but to a lesser extent)
7.
Luck
The metagame should allow a reasonable degree of chance to affect all facets of gameplay and game outcomes.
BP and LI are completely reasonable.
Sand Veil and Snow Cloak are seen on a whopping
ONE Pokemon in OU, and it's
NOT EVEN THE PREFERRED ABILITY. Unreasonable? No.
8.
Efficiency
The metagame should be as efficient as possible in execution of gameplay and resolving outcomes.
Oh, I spoke too soon earlier. This is the best argument against the complex ban because it creates a ton of extra work for the player on a non-simulator Pokemon game. Smogon doesn't exist just to serve simulator players, it exists to create a definitive banlist for Pokemon players everywhere. The simulator crowd is just a small fraction of competitive players everywhere, we shouldn't make the causal and semi-casual players have to adhere to complex bans, and having to research moveset restrictions, ability restrictions, and other complexities (plus the incredibly shaky reasoning for the BP/LI bans which was glorified whining) makes the game "hard work". Complex bans in general do that.
If you lose to one Brightpowder miss, tough shit. GameFreak gave us Wide Lens and Zoom Lens to compensate if you're that paranoid.
This is just April Fools 2009 all over again, right?
EDIT: More thoughts
LucaroarkZ said:
Anyway, luck is not a vital part of the system
Uh...wut? We're playing a game where just about every attacking option has a secondary, chance based effect and you're saying luck isn't a vital part of the system? What about team matchup? There's a chance element there too. I'm sorry, but if you say luck isn't a vital part of the system then I'm not really sure what is...
Tell me how you feel when you get haxed by Snow Cloak.
The same way I feel when I'm haxed by Scald, Lava Plume, paralysis, Stone Edge, Fire Blast missing or burning, Draco Meteor missing, or an untimely crit. Should we ban these next?
EDIT: more thoughts!
Okay, people say that a complex ban is more "consistent with Smogon policy". Honestly, I think that's untrue because Smogon policy, Smogon
official policy, is to ban only what's broken. Not to ban what's uncompetitive, not to ban what's "luck" or "hax", but to ban what's broken. Things that reduce the game to a dice roll are obviously broken, it's why Evasion Clause was made in the first place! Evasion Clause is there to get rid of Double Team and Minimize, two moves that would be broken in any metagame. Same with OHKO (though I think a reasonable case could be made for OHKOs. Not one that I have much of an opinion on, but I would love to see a debate about it) Clause, Sleep Clause, and (originally) Freeze Clause.
You know what's consistent with Smogon policy? The idea of banning only what's broken. It's what we did in Generations 3 and 4 (but then we cockblocked Baton Pass in 3 which was a really bad idea...) and it's what we're failing to do in 5. BP+LI was banned because of Garchomp. Not because of luck. It was, as Jibaku put it IIRC, a kneejerk reaction to the pressing issue of Garchomp.
Honestly, I don't think much will come out of this debate. It's just a clash of philosophies of banning things that are "uncompetitive" vs. banning things that are "broken", and I'm a member of the second camp. Both camps have their points, but Smogon policy has always supported the second camp, not the first. I see no reason for it to change over a trivial issue such as Brightpowder or Sand Veil.