Agreed. I'm a noob and I still see scald alot more often than surf. When you're a sweeper it's counterintuitive to trade power for a chance of inflicting status.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Empoleon
- Thread starter Adm. Empoleon
- Start date
boiling water is so hyped because of its applications on bulky waters like vappy, who LOVES getting the burn rate. however, i agree that a lot of people are just slapping it onto sweepers cuz its "cool." **i mean. sure, it might grant u some extra longevity if ur up against a physical team, but sweepers should focus on sweeping
i faced a SubAgility set with my reuniclus and i was able to stop it pretty easily. at first i was scared when i saw him use substitute and i had previously heard SubAgility empoleons are really good but there basically calm mind set up fodder for my reuniclus, even ones that run shadow ball and psychic and no focus blast (like mine).
Nope, petaya is unreleased.
I've never seen a sweeper using Scald, and it's pretty rare to even see Surf. Hydro Pump is the first choice for any sweeper using a Special Water move, so whoever you've seen using Scald on a sweeper is a noob.
A bulky sweeper should be pushing for the OHKO rather than a burn chance... And I usually prefer Surf to Hydro Pump, but on flat out sweeper, I'm probably going to go with Hydro Pump. Scald is just a terrible option for a sweeper unless it doesn't have a better option.
Hydro Pump is for the bad or desperate. If a move misses, it's going to do 0 damage, and something like Empoleon doesn't want to risk that.
a bulky sweeper like to usualy set up more and acquiring more power than he could normally attain, which is something scald gave. Also Hydro Surf is a hard comparison. YEah you CAN use Hydro power on SP poleon but it usualy sweep when its crippled and during that you dont want to miss.
Also Salamence DM is strong enough to sweep which means Surf power is enough to do it
Also Salamence DM is strong enough to sweep which means Surf power is enough to do it
That's exactly why most sets choose Stone Edge over Rock Slide right? Or Fire Blast over Flamethrower?
Fire blast has 85 acc, 5 more than Hydro AND most is not a desperate type sweeper like Empo(since empo withSB is a desperate type and the one were discussing). There has been no fire type desperate sweeper with enough move like empo do
Stone Edge have higher power(100) a lot more than RS(75) and people were just exagerating with the miss. SLide is simply to weak when compared to surf power(95). And believe it a 95 Bp 100 acc ock move will always replace stone edge. Stone Edge is more like Aqua Tail than Hydro Pump in this respect except without a move to really outclass it
The comparison make it clear why SE is used more and FB too while Hydro isnt.
Most poke with hydro or water in general is viewed as tank and therefore like the consistency of surf.
If say LO empo, yes you use surf mostly because you need to hit As hard as you can and you probably dont dead in 5 second. In Subpetaya you have enough power most of the time and you have to always hit or dead. Its different
Stone Edge have higher power(100) a lot more than RS(75) and people were just exagerating with the miss. SLide is simply to weak when compared to surf power(95). And believe it a 95 Bp 100 acc ock move will always replace stone edge. Stone Edge is more like Aqua Tail than Hydro Pump in this respect except without a move to really outclass it
The comparison make it clear why SE is used more and FB too while Hydro isnt.
Most poke with hydro or water in general is viewed as tank and therefore like the consistency of surf.
If say LO empo, yes you use surf mostly because you need to hit As hard as you can and you probably dont dead in 5 second. In Subpetaya you have enough power most of the time and you have to always hit or dead. Its different
Let's see... Hydro Pump has 80% accuracy and 120 power. Surf has 100% accuracy and 95 power. That's a difference of 25 power (same as SE to RS), the only difference is the accuracy loss is higher. I would say missing out on a KO is just as bad as missing period, frail sweeper or not, because no matter what you're taking damage, and the extra damage might not necessarily be that big of a difference anyway.
Most Starmies use Hydro Pump over Surf, as do Politoed's and Kingdras. Politoed is the only one there is who "bulky," and I don't think you would argue that Starmie or Kingdra aren't "desperate."
YEah but surf has 95 BP, a BP that is considered acceptable by the mass.
Things like Poli, Kdra etc is considered like LO Poleon where you need little to no effort to put on the sweep position so you just come, deal as much as you can(which is why Hydro or DM) and boom.
I already said LO poleon is understanable and subpet has a reason for Hydro, but most of the time since you have enough power(you have specs DM of Mence dude) you just need surf unless you need the extra power, however he has used up 4 turn-ish to make the position he was at. During such cases, you dont want to miss big time
Name: Mixed Attacker
Ability: Torrent
Item: Quick Claw
255 Atk / 255 SpD
Nature: Brave
-Drill Peck
-Earthquake
-Hydro Cannon / Hydro Pump
-Flash Cannon
Mixed Attacker Quick Claw Empoleon can be an excellent addition for your team for several purposes:
-Drill Peck and Earthquake can be a really surprising combo, especially because Ground is immune against Flying.
-Hydro Cannon is an excellent move here with it's 150 base power. Bad news is that you have to wait a turn. Hydro Pump can also be used, despite having less power. Which poison will you choose?
-Flash Cannon is weak, but it is the strongest (and most worth using-there is only 2 Steel moves it can learn) Steel move in it's arsenal.
Ability: Torrent
Item: Quick Claw
255 Atk / 255 SpD
Nature: Brave
-Drill Peck
-Earthquake
-Hydro Cannon / Hydro Pump
-Flash Cannon
Mixed Attacker Quick Claw Empoleon can be an excellent addition for your team for several purposes:
-Drill Peck and Earthquake can be a really surprising combo, especially because Ground is immune against Flying.
-Hydro Cannon is an excellent move here with it's 150 base power. Bad news is that you have to wait a turn. Hydro Pump can also be used, despite having less power. Which poison will you choose?
-Flash Cannon is weak, but it is the strongest (and most worth using-there is only 2 Steel moves it can learn) Steel move in it's arsenal.
that set sucks. im sorry.
u never use one turn charging moves like hydro cannon
and u dont ever use quick claw.
also, why would u run a mixed set when his special movepool is enough for the job?
ice beam surf grass knot (i think) and with hidden power, it gives u great coverage.
the ev also sucks
u never use one turn charging moves like hydro cannon
and u dont ever use quick claw.
also, why would u run a mixed set when his special movepool is enough for the job?
ice beam surf grass knot (i think) and with hidden power, it gives u great coverage.
the ev also sucks
The Empoleon set that I run is this:
Empoleon
Torrent @Air Balloon
Modest
4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd.
-Agility
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Hidden Power Fire
This set is extremely useful as a late game sweeper. With Air Balloon, you can now safely switch in on Ground type Attacks. If the opponent is choiced then they will switch out giving you a free Agility. From here you simply attack the foe with whatever will do the most damage. Surf and Hydro Pump are your STAB, one is stronger and the other is more accurate. Ice Beam provides great coverage with Water. The last move is up to you. Grass Knot is useful for attacking Water types but can be weak if they don't weigh much. Hidden Power Fire is good because you can take out Ferrothorn easier, but leaves you walled by Water types.
Empoleon
Torrent @Air Balloon
Modest
4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd.
-Agility
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot/Hidden Power Fire
This set is extremely useful as a late game sweeper. With Air Balloon, you can now safely switch in on Ground type Attacks. If the opponent is choiced then they will switch out giving you a free Agility. From here you simply attack the foe with whatever will do the most damage. Surf and Hydro Pump are your STAB, one is stronger and the other is more accurate. Ice Beam provides great coverage with Water. The last move is up to you. Grass Knot is useful for attacking Water types but can be weak if they don't weigh much. Hidden Power Fire is good because you can take out Ferrothorn easier, but leaves you walled by Water types.
The set definitely can be worked on, but it doesn't mean you have to put them down for it. Maybe this person is new to competitive battling? I don't think anyone likes being shot down when they're still learning.
But regardless, bluemon does have some viable points. Mix Empoleon may be surprising, but you really only ever see Emp with either a solely Physical or solely Special set. Hydro Pump/Surf is its best choice for Water STAB, and Ice Beam with Hidden Power work well for coverage too. Also if you're running a more defensive/supportish Empoleon, Scald may be used.
Really it all comes down to what kind of set you want to use. Empoleon is versatile enough to run an unconventional spread, but for items you'll probably want to go with Leftovers, or even Air Balloon, if you fear being hit with SE Ground type attacks. Life Orb is also viable if you want to go offensive.
And for EVs, again, this depends on the set you wish to run. If you'd like to stick with your Mixed Emp, you should go with:
(Idk about the EVs, it depends if you want Bulk or Speed)
-Drill Peck
-Earthquake
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
And Life Orb, Lefties or Air Balloon as your item.
Good luck with your set!
No, it wasn't. Read his other posts; people always reply and try to help out with the set itself and try to give set-creating advice, but he never listens.
As for Empoleon··· the best it can do is simply function as a Special sponge, which doesn't work very well for me. If it could learn Roost, it'd be much better; but since it doesn't, I usually always pick something else instead. Its typing is unique, but that's not enough to save it (in my opinion).
You could always try to make a ResTalk set work.
Lefties
Calm
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Rest
Sleep Talk
Scald
HP Fire / Ice Beam / Grass Knot ect.
The set would need to be customized through trial and error. Some speed investment maybe? A few Defense EVs?
Lefties
Calm
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Rest
Sleep Talk
Scald
HP Fire / Ice Beam / Grass Knot ect.
The set would need to be customized through trial and error. Some speed investment maybe? A few Defense EVs?