DPP offensive threats Polling

[doomvendingmachine]

Dude, it's gotta be yachechomp. Banning chomp but allowing mence is really biased. So I'm going to throw my support behind yachechomp.

If your still insistent about here are my other candidates

Ddmence/mixmence- the fact that the other exists is what makes both sets so dangerous, so IMO you have to include both

ANY common latias set- nuff said EDIT: apparently she's banned from this poll as well.

Cb scizor- the #1 pokemon in the meta from platinum untill a moth ago deserves a nod.

Steath rocks- just as dangerous, maybe moreso, than any pokemon. An entire class of leads developed that valued the entry hazzard over the pokemon that layed it.

Rotom-A- the #1 pokemon that kept sr up on the field and basically screwed rapid spin in ou (except lo spinmie). I would say a specific set but offensive and defensive rotom sets did the same job in different ways.

 

[lordkira]

garchomp and salamence are way too different to say "banning chomp but allowing" blah blah though. For instance, garchomp's sd set and salamence's dd set are two very different and differently working sets imo. however, i do agree with cbscizor getting recognition. the thing was an excellent pokemon for checking many of the top threats, esp salamence.

as for blu tornado's post. how am i biased? do you even know what biased means? my point was that one or the other simply doesn't outclass the whole pokemon for they each have sets that they are better than the other with. please read the post fully next time.
as for the reasons why certain sets are better than the other pokemon's: offensive ddmence>offensive ddnite is a pretty obvious subject. defensive ddnite>defensive ddmence argument was extensively done by RL a while back just read thaat. mixnite being the better stallbreaker while mixmence being the better mixed sweeper argument? jesus that's pretty obvious is it not (i don't want to talk about this here esp when this topic isn't about that if you want we can talk about it through pm however).

OH and another thing does anyon else think scarfchomp was also an excellent chomp set before it was banned? maybe not as broken as sdyache set in the meta without any other faster dragons but I think scarfchomp also deserves some attention :(

 

[matty]

Garchomp hands down. Every single team had one, every single team had 2 checks or more for him. The most centralizing Pokemon of Gen 4 hands down.

YacheChomp was the most common and most devastating but I think that ScarfChomp was a close second. Having the ability to revenge pretty much every single Scarfer combined with beating other 100 base Scarfers and easily outrunning 115+ meant that you had an Outrage monster on your hands. His attack was through the roof and he had good typing getting STAB from the most commonly used move in the game at the time. Also don't forget that Mence didn't receieve Outrage until Plat and for the most part the only set he ran was the MixSet with DM as his bread and butter vs. DM and Outrage. He wasn't rendered useless, but having a choice between the two, you would be silly to take Mence in only that situation.

I think that Deo-S should also get a nod for being one of the best late game finishers. Blinding speed + decent attacks and a deep movepool gave lots of flexiblity. That isnt even taking into account the Spikes/SR set that dominated the entire metagame for about a month or two.

 

[lordkira]

I also see deo-s as one of the biggest threats on OU as well.
Yet...I still think the dual screen lead deoxys-s was the most broken though.
omg...that thing...was freaking annoying

 

[doomvendingmachine]

I assumed deo-s wasn't allowed as chomp wasn't allowed. If deo is allowed a vote goes to deo-s from me as well.

Edit: yes, lead deo-s is the one I'm voting for

 

[Smith]

I started playing shoddy battle almost right after Garchomp was banned (and joined Smogon right after), so I never experienced him. That said I'm going with the next bad-ass Dragon Salamence.

Salamence @ Life Orb
252 SPAtk, 252 Spe, 4 HP, Naive
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake
-Roost

This is sort of a weird mixmence but this is what I used to use. Regardless, yeah he's a cunt, tears shit up with no (practical) safe switches.

 

[MK Ultra]

-snip-

Breloom@Toxic Orb

Substitute/Stone Edge
Spore
Focus Punch
Seed Bomb/Stone Edge

Has been a pain the ass since my debut in the metagame. THe only solid counter is Gliscor, and Dragonite (Not even, as if you attempt to roost, to heal off the damage, it hits for over 60% on a bulky DDer). Spores to piss you off, and then starts subing and punching. One of the hardest for me to counter in my whole shoddy battling life.

-snip-

Exactly as I said. I hate that evil thing, but it is, imo, the best set in the metagame right now, past Scizor and Suicune.

Scizor is stopped cold by anything carrying a surprise HP Fire and neutral to Bullet Punch.

 

[Bogmire]

Deoxys-S@sash
252 hp/252 spe/6 def (you could take some out of hp and put into attack if you really hated ttar leads and wanted to ohko them more reliably)
timid/jolly
Spikes
Stealth Rock
Taunt
filler (could be anything, superpower, extremespeed, reflect etc)

If you used this as your lead all you had to do was throw a phazer and Rotom on your team and watch your CRE skyrocket (it got me to 1646 in a day). Really, the only time it failed is if you were unfortunate enough to lose the speed tie against other deoxys-s leads. dual screen deoxys-s was equally as ridiculous. In fact, running any deoxys-s lead was almost a liability because if you lost the speed tie you basically lost the rest of the match unless you had a huge team advantage or your opponent just sucked.

 

[Terminator]

Rotom-A didn't exist when Deoxys-S was allowed.

Edit: or did you really mean standard Rotom o_O.

 

[shrang]

IIRC Manaphy was actually allowed in OU for a period (It was at least OU for one day between Stage 3-2 and 3-3, lol). The Tail Glow + 3 attacks set was pretty damn epic. Probably not the BIGGEST threat to drop to OU, but a worthy contender, IMO.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot: Skymin was pretty badass in OU as well.

 

[haunter]

As far as I know Manaphy has never been implemented on the standard ladder after stage 3. And to be honest, when it was tested on the suspect ladder it was completely outclassed by Garchomp and Latias during stage 3.

 

[Flashfires]

From a newer player's perspective, Taunt-DD Gyarados is a huge pain. MixApe is also a solid sweeper with good speed and coverage. In fairness I missed the time when Garchomp and Salamence were legal so I don't have comment on them.

 

[Nachos]

I disagree that Deoxys-S was an offensive monster. While the late-game sweeper was very effective, I'd argue it wasn't that big of a threat, even in DP. The introduction of Bullet Punch Scizor arguably reduced it's effectiveness for the one month it was in the Platinum metagame. Athough by that time, every good player was using Deoxys-S leads anyway which led to the lead position being Deoxys-S, Bronzong which was a very popular lead in DP and faired well vs Deoxys, or something which could beat Deoxys-S only and nothing else. Along with Wobbuffet, I'd say both are by far the biggest supportive threats ever in Gen 4 OU.

As said, Garchomp was the best offensive pokemon in OU no doubt, whether you think it's uber or OU (such as myself). I'd say that YacheChomp was the biggest threat in DP, yet I found it lacklustre in Stage 3-2. Latias wasn't an offensive beast at all and many voted it uber under the support characteristic. Salamence only got good when chomp and deo got banned and it got Outrage in Platinum, otherwise it would struggle to break the top 10 like it did pre-Plat.

SD Lucario deserves a mention for when it got really popular around December 2007. Skymin too for when it Platinum had just came out. Other than that, nothing really stands out as being a prime dpp threat.

 

[JSND]

Okay this is an important statement so read up!!!
Because of many complain its better to allow all OU pokemon ever hit the OU metagame
So the "former OU" such as Chomp and the others all allowed now
Seeing even with those not all will vote on them making balancing the vote still possible.
Thanks for the suggestin guys!!! it will be posted on the first post

 

[kd24]

garchomp, subsalac sdyache band and scarf were all top 10 powerhouse sets. if there was ever an "oh shit not this" pokemon, its garchomp.

id probably say (excluding manaphy and latios) that the top 10 offensive threats were in no particular order:

yachechomp
subsalac chomp
scarfchomp
bandchomp
ddmence
ddtar
mixmence
sdlucario
specs latios
lo shaymin

ton of huge threats but these all take the cake i think.

 

[Blazer]

I think SD Luke needs a little more love. The set is virtually unchanged throughout the DP metagame (one move is varied and the nature may change from adamant to jolly). It was/is really easy to support with stuff like CB Chomp, CB Tar, Mix Mence, and DD Gyara. SD Luke is the main reason for the term "pursuit bait" as it sets up on choice locked pursuits with ease as well as only taking 3% from SR. The metagame always seems to adapt, forcing new sweepers to arise and try to steal the show, SD Luke is as potent now as it was three years ago (ok maybe not, but its still good).

I think its tough to say which is the greatest threat overall, as each era of the metagame has different things that rip it apart (Agility Empoleon for example was huge when it first came out and now is still a threat, but not as much as before) until people adapt and the metagame advances. Even SpecsMence, once one of the biggest special threats in the game is now nowhere to be found, The Specs set on Latias was part of the reason it got banned and Mence could run a specs set nearly as well (less speed and no trick, but no Pursuit weakness and Intimidate).

Yache Chomp is the easy answer for #1, as that was the broken set when it first got banned way back when. Everything about it, from the hax in SS, to the amazing defenses, Dragon/Ground STAB, to the 102 speed made it a sweeping machine. My whole post has been about the metagame adapting to new threats, well this is one the metagame could not adapt to and was therefore banned.

CB Tar is another, just in terms of how much it changed the metagame. Tyranitar's Pursuit (and Scizor and Metagross to an extent) made Dark the worst weakness a pokemon could have (outside rock). Pokemon like Starmie, Gengar, Latias, Azelf, etc. always had to worry about Tyranitar (and his SS bolstered Special Defense) switching in and fucking them over with pursuit. The CB (and now CS) set provides so much support for other sweepers like Gyarados and Lucario, eliminating counters and paving their paths to a clean sweep.

 

[Nozizaki]

Breloom@Toxic Orb

Substitute/Stone Edge
Spore
Focus Punch
Seed Bomb/Stone Edge

Has been a pain the ass since my debut in the metagame. THe only solid counter is Gliscor, and Dragonite (Not even, as if you attempt to roost, to heal off the damage, it hits for over 60% on a bulky DDer). Spores to piss you off, and then starts subing and punching. One of the hardest for me to counter in my whole shoddy battling life.

God I hate this thing, I was swept by it once, and immediately ran rampant trying to fix my team. If they're using Adamant, then Honchkrow is a great counter, Outspeeding and an Insomniac. However, that gives you 2 and a half pokes. I'm sorry, but this not even 500 BST, is an Uber.

 

[ck49]

I think the three pokemon that could possibly be listed (4, if you count defensive threats) are Garchomp (for its pure destructive prowess), Latias (because the only thing that can safely switch in is CB snorlax, which no one runs. Even blissey could get tricked, screwing her over), salamence (due to its pure unpredictability, and it single handedly caused stall to shift to more of a semi stall approach due to its wall breaking skills), and blissey (who alone is the reason so many special attackers fall out of favor).

While I haven't actually played in the Garchomp metagame originally, I did play in an LNT with it allowed a couple times, and it centralized the metagame more than anything else. Its affects still ripple in the Dppt metagame today see: weavile in OU).

@kd24

DDtar over mixmence? really? My experiences using DDTat have been underwhelming, and it is easily revenge killed by stuff like flygon and jirachi.

 

[WarriorPrince]

Garchomp. Hands down.
Fast, Dragon Type, and Swords Dance. Nuff said. At the time Garchomp was the fastest Dragon in OU and was capable of boosting his attack faster and more efficiently than others Dragons by bluffing Scarf with Yache. Garchomp comes in, preferably during a Sandstorm. Swords Dances, and proceeds to rape your team if you 80% accurate [Insert Ice Attack Here] misses.


With Salamence gone, Dragonite and Gyarados are as deadly as ever. I feel they can compete with any of the others in the current metagame as the "most deadly."

 

[Eraddd]

I think the three pokemon that could possibly be listed (4, if you count defensive threats) are Garchomp (for its pure destructive prowess), Latias (because the only thing that can safely switch in is CB snorlax, which no one runs. Even blissey could get tricked, screwing her over), salamence (due to its pure unpredictability, and it single handedly caused stall to shift to more of a semi stall approach due to its wall breaking skills), and blissey (who alone is the reason so many special attackers fall out of favor).

While I haven't actually played in the Garchomp metagame originally, I did play in an LNT with it allowed a couple times, and it centralized the metagame more than anything else. Its affects still ripple in the Dppt metagame today see: weavile in OU).

@kd24

DDtar over mixmence? really? My experiences using DDTat have been underwhelming, and it is easily revenge killed by stuff like flygon and jirachi.

I find DDtar very weak, mainly because U Turn, fighting moves, steel attacks (Iron head etc) and priority attacks are very popular in the metagame. I myself carry scizor and flygon on my team, and Rotom-H is there to burn T-Tar, to cripple it. The abundance of infernape, Heatran, Scizor, Flygon, Jirachi, and more makes it so easy to counter.

Furthermore, I find Luke very underwhelming. Again, it might just be my own team, but I find that it's easy to counter it with Flygon and Bulky Dragonite.

 

[JSND]

Every kind of DD Gyara really needs love.
Constant top used pokemon that is totaly predictable and as same as before only
getting some adition and more counter and change the metagame all by itself too. Im not forcing you people lol. Its just Gyara is the sole reason nite is not much used (want a bulky DD ? Gyara the answer why ? he DD the efff out of a friggin scizor directly on his face while other DDers fears him !!!!) but i just think TTAr has more metagame effect than even Mence
Its just imagine a metagame without TTar then without Mence
Result:
Mence : rise of FWG core
Ttar : Ghost running rampant. Rotom is laughing. Psychic is broken ? Celetran is dominating
Next update is beetwen monday and Tuesday thx a lot guys

 

[mtr]

FWG cores arose also due to the banning of Latias. Previously, Latias had been successful both at walling members of the FWG cores and hitting hard, which Blissey couldn't do.

 

[greg3064]

DDTar gets walled and revenged very easily. Rock/Dark is resisted by stuff like Breloom, as well as EQ. And even +2 Jolly DDTar gets outsped by max speed scarfed base 100s (Jirachi/Flygon) who pack supereffective moves. As far as priority, it's weak to Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, and the rare Aqua Jet.

I would say that ScarfTar is a much more potent offensive threat, with a niche base speed that allows it to outspeed max speed base 115s like Starmie (and Gengar at 110) and OHKO them whether they switch or not. Since it switches out after attacking, its poor defensive typing doesn't matter as much.

 

[JSND]

In term of DD user i say:
-Salamence has the biggest power but easily revenged and sometime quite hard
to set up also having a 50-50 guessing game on seting up as a bonus
Its biggest cons is that he is so easy to force on outrage.
-Dragonite has the longest time to set up but easy to revenge and has many ways
to play his card whether is pure offense or bulky AKA Jack of All Trades
easiest to wall but make up for its long set up time
-Gyarados has the biggest set up range and the bulkiest. Also the hardest to revenge
kill reliably. Cons ? the metagame have counter on him but the counter
is a crazily good pokemon making them oh so common
-Tyranitar has the biggest potential. its the easiest to revenge kill but its actualy
bulkier than gyara. Its also quite versatile on its 4th slot. It forces mind
game too your opponent too. And in term of power, its massive
once its start sweeping after set up its quite probably the hardest to stop.

 

[JSND]

FWG cores arose also due to the banning of Latias. Previously, Latias had been successful both at walling members of the FWG cores and hitting hard, which Blissey couldn't do.

forgoten bout that. lol no ttar at latias age. FWG is doomed