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Doubles Viability Rankings (C- Votes if u care lol)
- Thread starter Lolk
- Start date
Flygon feels D-rank if we even list it at all. It gets some cool moves like Feint and Tailwind, and Levitate with its typing is nice I guess, but it's just so mediocre compared to its competition I have to wonder why anyone would use it. But still if D-rank lists shit like Parasect, Alakazam and Chansey I guess whatever, toss it in. Personally I think half the D-rank mons shouldn't even be listed in the first place and that the viability ranking should only list Pokemon that are actually viable but that's a discussion for another time.
I'm torn on Bisharp. On one hand it has great STABs, powerful priority, Defiant, Knock Off, and is one of the best at taking down bulky Psychic and Ghost types. One the other its weaknesses are common and pretty awful, Sucker Punch is unreliable and can be played around, it has no spread and is quite frail. I can see a case for A-rank and I'd be fine if the majority think it belongs there but I still think Bisharp belongs in B-rank, B+ or A- if we ever decide to do that.
EDIT: Actually don't count this as a vote for its placement, Bisharp is so borderline I'm not even sure where it should be.
People on the last page already mentioned why Scizor is awesome, keep Scizor in A-rank. Lots of utility even if it's burned or at -1, SD to punish Intimidate mons, its STABs and defensive typing let it check a ton of stuff while it remains one of the best answers to stuff like Cresselia, Latios, Gardevoir and Sylveon. Being weak to fire sucks but as a sole weakness it's not hard to cover.
I haven't used or seen Victini at all but I can see how you could justify B-rank. V-Create is a friggin nuke, give him a bit of rudimentary support like Follow Me/Rage Powder and Fake out and watch him blast everything under the sun. Since I haven't actually played with or against it though I don't really have an actual opinion here.
Zapdos for B-rank, seriously this thing is a staple.
I'm torn on Bisharp. On one hand it has great STABs, powerful priority, Defiant, Knock Off, and is one of the best at taking down bulky Psychic and Ghost types. One the other its weaknesses are common and pretty awful, Sucker Punch is unreliable and can be played around, it has no spread and is quite frail. I can see a case for A-rank and I'd be fine if the majority think it belongs there but I still think Bisharp belongs in B-rank, B+ or A- if we ever decide to do that.
EDIT: Actually don't count this as a vote for its placement, Bisharp is so borderline I'm not even sure where it should be.
People on the last page already mentioned why Scizor is awesome, keep Scizor in A-rank. Lots of utility even if it's burned or at -1, SD to punish Intimidate mons, its STABs and defensive typing let it check a ton of stuff while it remains one of the best answers to stuff like Cresselia, Latios, Gardevoir and Sylveon. Being weak to fire sucks but as a sole weakness it's not hard to cover.
I haven't used or seen Victini at all but I can see how you could justify B-rank. V-Create is a friggin nuke, give him a bit of rudimentary support like Follow Me/Rage Powder and Fake out and watch him blast everything under the sun. Since I haven't actually played with or against it though I don't really have an actual opinion here.
Zapdos for B-rank, seriously this thing is a staple.
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Assuming the list is also in part influenced by popularity, I'm slightly surprised at some of the things that are as popular as some others in the A list, which includes Scizor, Gyarados, Excadrill, and Volcarona. These four struck to me as a surprise for their popularity, but perhaps some things have changed since way back then. I think it may be helpful to link each Pokemon to the case that swayed their placement. Pocket EDIT: the ranking is based on viability, not popularity
Am I also correct to assume that for current Doubles each player's team of 6 is revealed prior to order selection? Pocket EDIT: yes, you are correct
Am I also correct to assume that for current Doubles each player's team of 6 is revealed prior to order selection? Pocket EDIT: yes, you are correct
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Flygon placement (not B lol)
Flygon is horribly outclassed by Garchomp and Salamence. I would put it in D rank. It does get Tailwind over Garchomp and Rock resist over Salamence, but its stats are as a whole medicore. Celever pls don't troll the viability rankings :/.
Scizor dropping from A to B
Hmm, I'm not too sure about this. Scizor has a small, but a well-fitting movepool in tandem with its ability, technician, such as bullet punch, bug bite, and feint. It can also choose to run swords dance to not be crippled as much by intimidate. it has a great defensive typing with many resists, and only one, albeit common weaknesses.
With all its good points said, it does face more competition with escavalier, especially if sleep clause does end up being removed. However, higher speed and access to priority does set it apart from Escavalier, and other similar pokemon such as Genesect.
Bisharp rising from B to A
As much as I like Bisharp, I think it should remain in b rank. It has low defenses and weaknesses to common spread moves and attacking types, such as fire, ground and fighting. Due to its low defenses, it is overly reliant on sucker punch to hit faster opponents. I also feel it is a little predictable and has somewhat of a learning curve, having to Ohko or be Ohkoed to function.
Victini placement
Victini I feel would be suited in B rank. It has one of the strongest physical attacks in the game, V-Create, and has a large movepool filled with physical and special offensive options. It also has a very useful ability in victory star, which helps raise the accuracy of its and its partner. It has quite a number of weaknesses and very vulnerable after using V-create.
Zapdos placement
Zapdos is B rank, definitely. It is one of the best tailwind users, and pairs well with top-tier pokemon such as Garchomp and Lando-T. It has a good spread in heat wave to deal with grass types, and has decent speed, bulk, and power.
Flygon is horribly outclassed by Garchomp and Salamence. I would put it in D rank. It does get Tailwind over Garchomp and Rock resist over Salamence, but its stats are as a whole medicore. Celever pls don't troll the viability rankings :/.
Scizor dropping from A to B
Hmm, I'm not too sure about this. Scizor has a small, but a well-fitting movepool in tandem with its ability, technician, such as bullet punch, bug bite, and feint. It can also choose to run swords dance to not be crippled as much by intimidate. it has a great defensive typing with many resists, and only one, albeit common weaknesses.
With all its good points said, it does face more competition with escavalier, especially if sleep clause does end up being removed. However, higher speed and access to priority does set it apart from Escavalier, and other similar pokemon such as Genesect.
Bisharp rising from B to A
As much as I like Bisharp, I think it should remain in b rank. It has low defenses and weaknesses to common spread moves and attacking types, such as fire, ground and fighting. Due to its low defenses, it is overly reliant on sucker punch to hit faster opponents. I also feel it is a little predictable and has somewhat of a learning curve, having to Ohko or be Ohkoed to function.
Victini placement
Victini I feel would be suited in B rank. It has one of the strongest physical attacks in the game, V-Create, and has a large movepool filled with physical and special offensive options. It also has a very useful ability in victory star, which helps raise the accuracy of its and its partner. It has quite a number of weaknesses and very vulnerable after using V-create.
Zapdos placement
Zapdos is B rank, definitely. It is one of the best tailwind users, and pairs well with top-tier pokemon such as Garchomp and Lando-T. It has a good spread in heat wave to deal with grass types, and has decent speed, bulk, and power.
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Flygon for D rank. This is one of these Pokemon that whilst not directly outclassed by Garchomp, Salamence, and Landorus-I individually, it is outclassed collectively. Mostly due to its stats; it's special attacking potential is bad thanks to only base 80 SpA, 100 Atk isn't stellar either, and 80/80/80 bulk is worse than its competition too. It's movepool is good, but Garchomp does that EQ + Dragon Claw coverage better, Landorus does Choice sets involving U-turn and special attacking Earth Power sets better, and Salamence does Tailwind with Dragon-type coverage better. Feint isn't enough to justify its use over the other Pokemon.
Scizor remains in A rank.
Great defensive typing, very strong priority that renders Scizor independent on speed support. It has many options for its third moveslot - it's a good Swords Dance user which coincidentally helps against the opponent switching to abuse Intimidate, it's one of the best Feint users, and it can also run moves for surprise KOs like Superpower, Aerial Ace, and Thief, or use Tailwind for team support. It's also one of the best Pokemon at checking very important Pokemon - Cresselia, Tyranitar, Togekiss, Syvleon, Gardevoir, Terrakion, Kyurem-B and more. Compared to Escavalier, it can carry out more roles and is less dependent on team support thanks to Bullet Punch mitigating its Speed issues.
Bisharp for B rank. If I were asked this last week, I would have been on the fence about this. Now, after playing with Bisharp a bit more, I've realised that it's excellent in certain scenarios and not-so-great in others. It's flaws are what hold it back from A rank. It has bad bulk and common weaknesses, so it is commonly OHKOed. It is very prediction reliant thanks to this and its bad Speed, forcing it to rely on prediction with Sucker Punch and Protect to stay around and do its job. Also, it needs team support to function at its best. Despite Defiant, it loses 1v1 against Focus Sash Landorus-T, Scrafty, and Hitmontop common Intimidate users, and needs a teammate to nab the KOs on them before they OHKO Bisharp. (Regarding Hitmontop, +1 LO Bisharp only has a 25% chance to OHKO standard 252HP / 60 Def Top with Iron Head). Similarly with checking Trick Room, it needs team support to avoid the Fake Out against Scrafty leads before TR goes up. I agree with Ultimathunder that it is harder to use than most other Pokemon.
It also faces competition with Aegislash to a small degree, who shares Bisharp's coverage with Ghost/Steel STAB and anti-TR potency whilst possessing significantly better bulk, an immunity to Fake Ou, and it checks Intimidate too - it doesn't care about an Atk drop, it has Wide Guard to really mess with Landorus-T, is usually untouchable by Hitmontop, and can play around Scrafty's Knock Off with King's Shield.
Victini for B rank. Here's the reasoning in my nomination post for Victini
Zapdos for B rank. Great typing, strong Tailwind user, strong stats with high SpA, decent bulk, and good speed. Heat Wave spread is good too. It also can provide other support like Light Screen and Thunder Wave, but usually Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Tailwind, and Protect is its best moveset. Faces some competition from Thundurus, but they differ by more than enough to warrant an easy B placement.
Scizor remains in A rank.
Great defensive typing, very strong priority that renders Scizor independent on speed support. It has many options for its third moveslot - it's a good Swords Dance user which coincidentally helps against the opponent switching to abuse Intimidate, it's one of the best Feint users, and it can also run moves for surprise KOs like Superpower, Aerial Ace, and Thief, or use Tailwind for team support. It's also one of the best Pokemon at checking very important Pokemon - Cresselia, Tyranitar, Togekiss, Syvleon, Gardevoir, Terrakion, Kyurem-B and more. Compared to Escavalier, it can carry out more roles and is less dependent on team support thanks to Bullet Punch mitigating its Speed issues.
Bisharp for B rank. If I were asked this last week, I would have been on the fence about this. Now, after playing with Bisharp a bit more, I've realised that it's excellent in certain scenarios and not-so-great in others. It's flaws are what hold it back from A rank. It has bad bulk and common weaknesses, so it is commonly OHKOed. It is very prediction reliant thanks to this and its bad Speed, forcing it to rely on prediction with Sucker Punch and Protect to stay around and do its job. Also, it needs team support to function at its best. Despite Defiant, it loses 1v1 against Focus Sash Landorus-T, Scrafty, and Hitmontop common Intimidate users, and needs a teammate to nab the KOs on them before they OHKO Bisharp. (Regarding Hitmontop, +1 LO Bisharp only has a 25% chance to OHKO standard 252HP / 60 Def Top with Iron Head). Similarly with checking Trick Room, it needs team support to avoid the Fake Out against Scrafty leads before TR goes up. I agree with Ultimathunder that it is harder to use than most other Pokemon.
It also faces competition with Aegislash to a small degree, who shares Bisharp's coverage with Ghost/Steel STAB and anti-TR potency whilst possessing significantly better bulk, an immunity to Fake Ou, and it checks Intimidate too - it doesn't care about an Atk drop, it has Wide Guard to really mess with Landorus-T, is usually untouchable by Hitmontop, and can play around Scrafty's Knock Off with King's Shield.
Victini for B rank. Here's the reasoning in my nomination post for Victini
V-create hits extraordinarily hard To demonstrate V-create's power, it always 2HKO 252 HP / 40 Def Cress without an item boost or a weather boost (ignoring Sitrus Berry, but Sitrus variants will be 2HKOed with at least a Life Orb). With sun support, it is a nuke that OHKOes everything that doesn't resist it sans Cress and that's without an item boost. Bolt Strike boosts good power too and provides good coverage with V-Create, particularly against Mega Zard Y and Politoed (it's not auto-fucked if rain gets up). It can also has other coverage options for Brick Break, which can 2HKO Heatran with at least a LO boost whilst not being OHKOed by Earth Power in return, Zen Headbutt for Fighting-types, and U-turn for Choice sets. Unlike other physical attackers, it is immune to burn which is always a plus.
Victini does have common weaknesses, but 100/100/100 bulk is enough to back them up. For example, with only 16 HP, Victini will never be OHKOed by Landorus-T's EQ. In fact, -1 CB V-create will outdamage it against a 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus. Mega Khan also cannot OHKO Victini, and depending on Mega Khan's and Victini's item, it may actually be OHKOed by V-create.
100 Speed is enough to get the job done. Victini can run a variety of sets like a straight-out LO / Charcoal attacker, CB, Scarf (pair with Zard Y), or a TR set. Even a Fusion Flare / Fusion Bolt combo with Kyurem-B if you're daring.
It's ability, whilst not great, can be useful for teammates lik Mega Zard Y with Heat Wav, Fire Blast, Overheat and/or Focus Blast.
What holds Victini back is its common weaknesses, V-create's drawbacks, vulnerability to Sucker Punch, Intimidate which can turn many favourable match-ups for Victini into unfavourable match-ups (though the latter can be mitigated by sunlight), and competition with other Fire-types for a teamslot (though Victini is not outclassed and varies substantially from the commonly used Fire-types). But its perks qualify it for B rank.
Victini does have common weaknesses, but 100/100/100 bulk is enough to back them up. For example, with only 16 HP, Victini will never be OHKOed by Landorus-T's EQ. In fact, -1 CB V-create will outdamage it against a 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus. Mega Khan also cannot OHKO Victini, and depending on Mega Khan's and Victini's item, it may actually be OHKOed by V-create.
100 Speed is enough to get the job done. Victini can run a variety of sets like a straight-out LO / Charcoal attacker, CB, Scarf (pair with Zard Y), or a TR set. Even a Fusion Flare / Fusion Bolt combo with Kyurem-B if you're daring.
It's ability, whilst not great, can be useful for teammates lik Mega Zard Y with Heat Wav, Fire Blast, Overheat and/or Focus Blast.
What holds Victini back is its common weaknesses, V-create's drawbacks, vulnerability to Sucker Punch, Intimidate which can turn many favourable match-ups for Victini into unfavourable match-ups (though the latter can be mitigated by sunlight), and competition with other Fire-types for a teamslot (though Victini is not outclassed and varies substantially from the commonly used Fire-types). But its perks qualify it for B rank.
Zapdos for B rank. Great typing, strong Tailwind user, strong stats with high SpA, decent bulk, and good speed. Heat Wave spread is good too. It also can provide other support like Light Screen and Thunder Wave, but usually Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Tailwind, and Protect is its best moveset. Faces some competition from Thundurus, but they differ by more than enough to warrant an easy B placement.
Although Scizor does have only one huge weakness being fire, it's a bit too rampant across a board of effective users to neglect as a factor. Switching into a Bullet Punch or Bug Bite with a number of Pokemon that uses fire moves could prove to be an issue for Scizor depending on Scizor's partner where if Scizor chooses to respond by swapping out against an incoming fire attack, especially if there's sun, chances are that Scizor will end up doing less than what the incoming fire would do in more given situations, and noting that it doesn't have to be a spread fire move either.
I wouldn't really take Intimidate into consideration as an ability holding Scizor back since Intimidate applies to most physical users out there anyways. Surprise can be a factor, but when playing in any best out of 3 rounds it's not really something that could be worth mentioning.
As you noted Scizor can effectively take on particular Pokemon, assuming they don't take advantage of the fact as well.
You're right in saying that a Fire-type weakness is a big weakness considering how common Fire-types are. Ideally, Scizor should be on the field with a partner that can handle Fire-types like Terrakion. If you do have two Pokemon out on the field weak to Fire-types at the same time, be prepared to switch out one of them asap as your opponent would probably bring in his Fire type. Also, I can take advantage of Fire-type attacks being aimed at Scizor and switch in my answer to Fire-types at the same time, like Suicune or Heatran, just like switching in a Fire-type to check Scizor. Or if I'm really desperate to handle Fire-types, gimmicky Natural Gift exists, but I wouldn't recommend that option. Considering Scizor has only one weakness, it is easier to pair it with a Pokemon that can handle Scizor's weakness compared to most other Pokemon; try doing so with Abomasnow.
Your point about Intimidate confuses me. I said that Swords Dance helps mitigate Intimidate, which is something other physical users don't have. I also disagree with you; Intimidate is so common that it should be taken into consideration. The widespread use of Intimidate and burn is why special attackers are usually preferred over physical attackers, for example, Salamence usually only run special attacks despite having a higher base Atk. Not that Intimidate works to Scizor's advantage though.
The viability ranking list applies to ladder games which are best of 1, and most Smogon tournies are best of 1. Surprise being worse in best of 3 really doesn't make a difference - this isn't VGC.
You're latter point is one that can be aimed at every Pokemon, as ignoring stuff like Magikarp and Pichu, every Pokemon can effectively take on particular Pokemon but can also be taken advantage of itself. Even monsters like Mega Khan, for example, as assuming its normal moveset, it is powerless to stop Gourgeist from using its support moves.
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What I was trying to bring up was that Intimidate is a general consideration across most physical users in Doubles and that Scizor does not stand apart from this consideration, which was actually a response to someone else's post mentioning that Intimidate was a bottleneck for Scizor but I didn't feel that a multi-quote was necessary. You'll probably find yourself in less situations where Swords Dance can be utilized as a gain for Scizor more so than using two Bullet Punches or Bug Bites especially if Scizor is a victim of being hit in between.
A double physical lead is probably not the best example but yes it does ultimately depend on its partner and the reserves for how particular threats are approached. Heatran is probably not an answer after the team of 6 is revealed in that other approaches can be made to take out Scizor in a turn or two rather than fire types, so you can probably expect them to not use a fire move after seeing that anyways unless both the Scizor/Heatran and its partner can be taken out or close to it regardless (one example being what I had in Gen4 Zapdos+Swampert, with Detect/Protect considerations where necessary).
I've never played VGC before so I don't know how things work there but I assumed that players just lean towards multiple rounds competitively. In the case of playing one round and not again then surprise can be an asset that tips the scale.
I'm not sure why a Kangaskhan would be rendered useless with consideration of partners when Gourgeist is out on the field though. Partners compensate for things like that in general for Doubles, but Scizor's predictable Bullet Punch and Bug Bite leaves the opponent with a lot of possible resisting responses that the response in return could also answer to Scizor's partner and not just Scizor alone. A lot of "it depends" factors as with anything, but in respect to this Scizor can be a bit picky on partners. But in some situations Scizor does fall into the category of good but not great bulk, which is difficult to find outside of Cresselia anyways.
A double physical lead is probably not the best example but yes it does ultimately depend on its partner and the reserves for how particular threats are approached. Heatran is probably not an answer after the team of 6 is revealed in that other approaches can be made to take out Scizor in a turn or two rather than fire types, so you can probably expect them to not use a fire move after seeing that anyways unless both the Scizor/Heatran and its partner can be taken out or close to it regardless (one example being what I had in Gen4 Zapdos+Swampert, with Detect/Protect considerations where necessary).
I've never played VGC before so I don't know how things work there but I assumed that players just lean towards multiple rounds competitively. In the case of playing one round and not again then surprise can be an asset that tips the scale.
I'm not sure why a Kangaskhan would be rendered useless with consideration of partners when Gourgeist is out on the field though. Partners compensate for things like that in general for Doubles, but Scizor's predictable Bullet Punch and Bug Bite leaves the opponent with a lot of possible resisting responses that the response in return could also answer to Scizor's partner and not just Scizor alone. A lot of "it depends" factors as with anything, but in respect to this Scizor can be a bit picky on partners. But in some situations Scizor does fall into the category of good but not great bulk, which is difficult to find outside of Cresselia anyways.
There is so much wrong with this paragraph, I am hemorrhaging IQ points.
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HOW THE HELL IS BISHARP NOT A RANK HELLO WHAT IS THIS
so yeah basically bisharp is amazing in this metagame.
Intimidate is very popular, as well as (like in gen 5) messing with cresselia being good. Knock Off is amazing, as well as Dark-type offense boost. Generally, Bisharp is just amazing, and doesn't face nearly as much competition as in gen 5 where flying gem acrobat tornadus was really good for dealing with the more popular tops. In today's meta, Landorus-T is EVERYWHERE, especially scarf, and +1 LO Sucker Punch OHKOs that thing from full. Knock Off also makes it really freaking hard to switch into. Generally I have no idea how this thing is still B rank.
that is all =]
so yeah basically bisharp is amazing in this metagame.
Intimidate is very popular, as well as (like in gen 5) messing with cresselia being good. Knock Off is amazing, as well as Dark-type offense boost. Generally, Bisharp is just amazing, and doesn't face nearly as much competition as in gen 5 where flying gem acrobat tornadus was really good for dealing with the more popular tops. In today's meta, Landorus-T is EVERYWHERE, especially scarf, and +1 LO Sucker Punch OHKOs that thing from full. Knock Off also makes it really freaking hard to switch into. Generally I have no idea how this thing is still B rank.
that is all =]
Stratos
Banned deucer.
Kashinn im sorry if this comes off as rude but do you play doubles at all?
Flygon: D Rank
Only perks over landorus are dragon typing and slightly higher speed; only perks over garchomp are u-turn and levitate. It's like if you took a hybrid of the best parts of both pokemon, so to compensate you gave it no ability and way shittier stats (especially attack). Just use one of the other two.
Scizor: A Rank
it's damn good, though only the SD Mega set is. It's got really powerful bulk for setting up, and can set up on all the common intimidate Pokemon as they switch in. It loses to Fire-types and fast Will-o-Wisps but little else unless you get too greedy with the boosts instead of attacking (something I'm guilty of as of late).
Bisharp: B Rank
I basically have to agree with Darkmalice here that bisharp is ridiculously hard to use and i hate playing with it. Its ability to keep me from sending in my Intimidators is one great quality, but it's less threatening than most Pokemon at +0 and can even be managed at +1 oft times (so leading sharp/rak or w/e to scare lando DOES NOT WORK ALWAYS). It's very good, B+ rank, but simply too awkward to be A, and it only works on certain teams.
Zapdos: B
As with Thundurus, Zapdos's typing became a lot less impressive this generation, with the increase in fire, normal, rock, etc, none of which it resists, and the decline in water and fighting. That said, it is still a good supportive-offensive Pokemon with access to Tailwind, Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Thunder Wave, and its good speed tier. It threatens many slower, bulkier pokemon very well. Unfortunately the meta has shifted to faster offense, and most Pokemon faster than zapdos are much less threatened.
Victini: B or C
Physical fire is its niche, but i'm not convinced it does it particularly splendidly. Its typing is simply a defensive nightmare, though it can fire off powerful v-creates and has good coverage.
Flygon: D Rank
Only perks over landorus are dragon typing and slightly higher speed; only perks over garchomp are u-turn and levitate. It's like if you took a hybrid of the best parts of both pokemon, so to compensate you gave it no ability and way shittier stats (especially attack). Just use one of the other two.
Scizor: A Rank
it's damn good, though only the SD Mega set is. It's got really powerful bulk for setting up, and can set up on all the common intimidate Pokemon as they switch in. It loses to Fire-types and fast Will-o-Wisps but little else unless you get too greedy with the boosts instead of attacking (something I'm guilty of as of late).
Bisharp: B Rank
I basically have to agree with Darkmalice here that bisharp is ridiculously hard to use and i hate playing with it. Its ability to keep me from sending in my Intimidators is one great quality, but it's less threatening than most Pokemon at +0 and can even be managed at +1 oft times (so leading sharp/rak or w/e to scare lando DOES NOT WORK ALWAYS). It's very good, B+ rank, but simply too awkward to be A, and it only works on certain teams.
Zapdos: B
As with Thundurus, Zapdos's typing became a lot less impressive this generation, with the increase in fire, normal, rock, etc, none of which it resists, and the decline in water and fighting. That said, it is still a good supportive-offensive Pokemon with access to Tailwind, Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Thunder Wave, and its good speed tier. It threatens many slower, bulkier pokemon very well. Unfortunately the meta has shifted to faster offense, and most Pokemon faster than zapdos are much less threatened.
Victini: B or C
Physical fire is its niche, but i'm not convinced it does it particularly splendidly. Its typing is simply a defensive nightmare, though it can fire off powerful v-creates and has good coverage.
No worries, but for this gen I do not. I have dropped Doubles since the introductory of Triples, so I came from 6v6 Doubles prior to Gen5 but after Gen3 (DPPtHGSS basically). Was there anything I wrote that seemed off?
yeah this is a bad pokemon why the fuck did you hype it so much celever. the main reason its bad is not because of its stats, movepool, ability or typing; simply the fact that everything it does is outclassed. if i want a fast pokemon with good ground and dragon stab ill choose garchomp, as not only does it have access to the same stab moves, it also has both higher attack and speed stats. if i want a tailwind supporter, ill use salamence, which has significantly better attacking stats and an arguably better typing. all of flygons stats are simply lackluster. 100 attack and speed may seem ok, but almost every physical sweeper that gives it competition has better stats, alongside a better movepool, which makes flygon simply not worth using. it cant even choose to run a special set effectively, as it has a meager 80 special attack, which isnt going to be doing much damage to anything any time soon. leave flygon unranked in my opinion, though i guess it could slip into d.
sorry what. scizor is a great pokemon atm. cant say much that hasnt been said already, but scizor is a really nice utility mon and offensive powerhouse. doesnt really care as much as other mons about intimidate thanks to swords dance and the fact that its primary stabs - bullet punch and bug bite - still fulfill their roles of acting as a useful priority move and being powerful af as well as stealing a berry, respectively. also quite bulky on the physical side, survives surprising hits with relative ease. a weakness to fire is annoying, especially as its probably the best type in doubles right now, but it has no other weaknesses which is awesome, so as long as you avoid the flames you should be cool. scizor should stay in a rank.
im really on edge about this one. bisharp is a really cool pokemon and serves a great anti-meta pokemon with nice stabs (especially knock off) and the ability to revenge kill relatively effectively with sucker punch. obviously the best part is defiant, which fucks up anything tryign to lower stats (switching in on gengars shadow ball for spD drop is baller af). sucker punch is seriously a great way to revenge kill threats such as lando-t and shaymin-s, and knock off is a great spammable move that cripples whatever the fuck your opponent wants to bring in (megas can suck a dick). also cress can go die in a hole bisharp destroys it. weakness to common fire, fighting and ground moves alongside low speed and mediocre defensive stats are a downfall, but i feel that bisharps positives outweigh its negatives enough to make it worthy of a rank.
dont really have anything to say on the others as i have next to no experience with them (admittedly i dont have experience with flygon but thats shit lmao).
Volcarona to B rank
Right now I've noticed Volcarona is just a lot less common and isn't as good as it used to be for a number of reasons. It doesn't have as easy of a time setting up as it used to, especially with the popularity of Scarftar and Scarf Landorus-T that can KO it, Charizard-Y can take a huge chunk out of it while resisting its STABs, the ever popular Heatran messes it up, base 100 isn't as fast as it used to be, Rage Powder getting nerfed means it loses the main draw of its Rage Powder set, which was its ability to mess with Fighting-types such as Hitmontop by redirecting Fake Out, Rain is starting to see a resurgence in popularity which sucks for Volcarona, and other common Fire-types are simply more threatening. So yeah I think it should go down to B rank.
Right now I've noticed Volcarona is just a lot less common and isn't as good as it used to be for a number of reasons. It doesn't have as easy of a time setting up as it used to, especially with the popularity of Scarftar and Scarf Landorus-T that can KO it, Charizard-Y can take a huge chunk out of it while resisting its STABs, the ever popular Heatran messes it up, base 100 isn't as fast as it used to be, Rage Powder getting nerfed means it loses the main draw of its Rage Powder set, which was its ability to mess with Fighting-types such as Hitmontop by redirecting Fake Out, Rain is starting to see a resurgence in popularity which sucks for Volcarona, and other common Fire-types are simply more threatening. So yeah I think it should go down to B rank.
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Nominating Diggersby for B Rank
I'm gonna aim kinda high here but bare with me. Diggersby doesn't look like much at first. Super low BST, weird typing, and a goofy appearance. Below the surface though, we find it's carrying the sacred Huge Power ability. What does that give us you ask? How about an EQ that beats Groudon? As well as STAB priority in Quick Attack? It even gets access to server all Boosting moves in Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Agility, and Power Up Punch. Furthermore, it has STAB Return, just like our very first Suspect Test MegaKhan, but it hits harder right off the bat (not including Khan's Sash/Sub Breaking). It also has access to UTurn, making it an ok momentum grabber, and Wild Charge, meaning it isn't a sitting duck against Rain. Pairing that with double immunities to Electric and Ghost, it can actually do a bit of damage to Rain Stall teams.
It does have the ever common issues that every Physical Attacker in Doubles has, mainly Burn and Intimidate. It also lacks the utility of other successful Ground types, such as Lando-T's Typing and Ability, as well as Garchomp's MegaEvo, which puts it as more powerful than Diggersby even outside of Sand. It's also got a serious lack of bulk (85/77/77 ain't all that) and several common weaknesses to Water, Grass, Fighting, and Ice.
Overall though, I feel like Diggersby has potential which is somewhat outshines by other Ground Types, even though it hits way harder than most of them, and unlike MegaChomp, it had Items to help it too.
I'm gonna aim kinda high here but bare with me. Diggersby doesn't look like much at first. Super low BST, weird typing, and a goofy appearance. Below the surface though, we find it's carrying the sacred Huge Power ability. What does that give us you ask? How about an EQ that beats Groudon? As well as STAB priority in Quick Attack? It even gets access to server all Boosting moves in Swords Dance, Bulk Up, Agility, and Power Up Punch. Furthermore, it has STAB Return, just like our very first Suspect Test MegaKhan, but it hits harder right off the bat (not including Khan's Sash/Sub Breaking). It also has access to UTurn, making it an ok momentum grabber, and Wild Charge, meaning it isn't a sitting duck against Rain. Pairing that with double immunities to Electric and Ghost, it can actually do a bit of damage to Rain Stall teams.
It does have the ever common issues that every Physical Attacker in Doubles has, mainly Burn and Intimidate. It also lacks the utility of other successful Ground types, such as Lando-T's Typing and Ability, as well as Garchomp's MegaEvo, which puts it as more powerful than Diggersby even outside of Sand. It's also got a serious lack of bulk (85/77/77 ain't all that) and several common weaknesses to Water, Grass, Fighting, and Ice.
Overall though, I feel like Diggersby has potential which is somewhat outshines by other Ground Types, even though it hits way harder than most of them, and unlike MegaChomp, it had Items to help it too.
I don't see any reason to use Diggersby over Garchomp or Landorus-T. Also Rain Stall literally does not exist.
Things Landorus-T can do over diggersby
- Intimidate
- Ground immunity
- Fighting resistance
- much more bulk
- More Speed
Things Garchomp can do over diggersby
- Dragon STAB
- Resistances that come with Dragon-typing
- More Speed
- Ability helps keep Kangas in check, and discourages Fake Out
Things Diggersby do over the other mons
- hit a bit harder.
Things Landorus-T can do over diggersby
- Intimidate
- Ground immunity
- Fighting resistance
- much more bulk
- More Speed
Things Garchomp can do over diggersby
- Dragon STAB
- Resistances that come with Dragon-typing
- More Speed
- Ability helps keep Kangas in check, and discourages Fake Out
Things Diggersby do over the other mons
- hit a bit harder.
Raikou for C-rank.
Pure Electric-type with high Speed and Special attack (115 Speed is awesome), and respectable 90/75/100 bulk. Support options in Snarl, Light Screen, and Reflect.
Main reason for C-rank is competition with other Electric-types, and poor base power of its coverage moves.
Best comparison is with Mega Manectric
-less Speed and SpA
-better bulk, but no Intimidate
-still has an item slot - can outdamage Manetric with Choice Specs or Life Orb
-lacks Flamethrower and Overheat, in return gets Aura Sphere and Weather Ball (require Rash)
Worse than Mega Manetric, but it doesn't require a Mega slot. It also competes with Thundurus for the role of a speedie and hard-hitting special attacker, but it has more bulk and provides different support. Compared to D-rank Jolteon, significantly better bulk and provides more support.
It can also go for a Calm Mind sweep if you're daring - CM sweeping is becoming more common these days (not on Raikou, but Calm Mind as a move on any Pokemon is becoming more popular). I have not tested this though, and I would imagine that it wouldn't be as good a Calm Mind user as, say, Syvleon.
A SPl replay of Raikou in action.
Pure Electric-type with high Speed and Special attack (115 Speed is awesome), and respectable 90/75/100 bulk. Support options in Snarl, Light Screen, and Reflect.
Main reason for C-rank is competition with other Electric-types, and poor base power of its coverage moves.
Best comparison is with Mega Manectric
-less Speed and SpA
-better bulk, but no Intimidate
-still has an item slot - can outdamage Manetric with Choice Specs or Life Orb
-lacks Flamethrower and Overheat, in return gets Aura Sphere and Weather Ball (require Rash)
Worse than Mega Manetric, but it doesn't require a Mega slot. It also competes with Thundurus for the role of a speedie and hard-hitting special attacker, but it has more bulk and provides different support. Compared to D-rank Jolteon, significantly better bulk and provides more support.
It can also go for a Calm Mind sweep if you're daring - CM sweeping is becoming more common these days (not on Raikou, but Calm Mind as a move on any Pokemon is becoming more popular). I have not tested this though, and I would imagine that it wouldn't be as good a Calm Mind user as, say, Syvleon.
A SPl replay of Raikou in action.
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You forgot that Diggersby also has STAB priority, hits harder with its STABs than both of them (unless Chomp is Mega) and that it's a lot less predictable.
I do agree that B is too high for it, but it needs placement, seeing as it isn't stunningly terrible thanks to Huge Power and actually should see the light of day once in a while.
Maybe C Rank for it?
Okay, went through the list since I forgot this existed and conjured a list of what caught my eye right away.
Basically, anything I have listed as "suspect" is mostly stuff I haven't tested extensively enough to make an opinion on and feel could be moved up/down (denoted by the letter next to it) based on its general potential. Anything I wrote a description of is what I have tested and feel more strongly about.
Most of the OP list is very good- I know this is expected to be progressive discussion, just wanted to make it clear that although I'm bringing up a slew of Pokemon, I'm not skeptical of the tier list altogether. I'm just bringing up a few subtle changes that I think need to be considered.
Feel free to respond on anything I post here, I'm curious on a lot of the suspect Pokemon. Once SPL is over for me (hopefully not soon!) I'll start testing a bit more with this new stuff, but for now I can only do so much since I have final exams next week plus (hopefully) a playoff match to prepare for.
S-Tier
{suspects: Heatran(D)}
Tyranitar: (DOWN) a little high. A is probably a better fit.
Charizard-Y: (DOWN) pretty much the same as Tyranitar. I can't really give an amazing explanation for each other than that they definitely are not in the same league as Cresselia / Rotom-W / Landorus-T / Kangaskhan
A-Tier
{suspects: Gardevoir(D), Ludicolo(D), Latios(D), Talonflame(D), Togekiss(U)}
Landorus-T: (UP) definitely S-tier, probably the Pokemon I feel most strongly about on this list. The whole "which item does it have?" "is it going to U-Turn?" "is it going to outspeed me?" ("which item does it have?") "is it going to out-damage me?" ("which item does it have?") "if it does U-Turn, what is it going to switch into?" "if it doesn't U-Turn, what is it going to do?" is enough reason the timer is not enough for Smogon Doubles matches. I didn't use this thing in 6/9 of my SPL matches because I liked it aesthetically, I used it because it's borderline broken due to the ridiculous amount of options it gets. If we had to suspect test a Pokemon, this would be my nomination before Kangaskhan, Cresselia, and Heatran.
Rotom-W: (UP) the insane amount of good scenarios this thing can create probably makes it worthy of consideration as an S-tier Pokemon. This and Landorus-T both aren't far-fetched S-Tier Pokemon and both have seen enough successful use for this to be considered.
B-Tier
{suspects: Jirachi(U), Jellicent(U/D), Mew(U/D), Rotom-H(U), Suicune(U), Trevenant(D), Tornadus(D), Thundurus-Therian(U), Goodra(D), Greninja(D), Metagross(D), Sylveon(D)}
Amoonguss: (UP) mostly because of sleep clause probably going away.
Breloom: (UP) same reasoning as Amoonguss. Both belong in A now.
Bisharp: (UP) Knock Off getting buffed makes Bisharp more than the strongest 50/50er in the game.
Deoxys-A: (DOWN) at least one tier, if not two. Biggest gimper ever, no defense, no type synergy.
Klefki: (DOWN) at least one tier, if not two. Has absolutely no offense, decent typing doesn't make up for it. "Support" should really never be dedicated to an entire Pokemon in doubles.
C-Tier
{suspects: Blaziken(U), Aerodactyl(U), Arcanine(U), Porygon2(U), Rhyperior(U), Meowstic(D), Zygarde(D)}
Escavalier: (UP) Drill Run allows it to take care of Heatran inside of Trick Room. I think B is a safe place for Escavalier. It's better than Scizor non-mega, but doesn't have mega potential, so Scizor should probably never be more than a tier ahead of it, and I think moving Escavalier up is safer than moving Scizor down.
Mantine: (DOWN) what the hell is this doing here? I love Mantine, don't get me wrong, but I have so many doubts that this is validly a C tier Pokemon. I'm super welcoming to see this thing kick ass, though, so prove me wrong please.
Torterra: (DOWN) No way. I'm even more skeptical about Torterra than I am about Mantine and I don't know if any convincing could get me to accept Torterra as C tier, much less D tier, much less ahead of Eviolite Grotle (which is probably not even C tier to begin with.)
D-Tier
Why does this tier even exist? I don't know what it's accomplishing other than appeasing potential singles fans (which we want to do, but certainly not with tier lists: the goal here should be to inform!)
Edit: C-Rank for Diggersby and Raikou seems pretty fair, to add to that discussion.
Basically, anything I have listed as "suspect" is mostly stuff I haven't tested extensively enough to make an opinion on and feel could be moved up/down (denoted by the letter next to it) based on its general potential. Anything I wrote a description of is what I have tested and feel more strongly about.
Most of the OP list is very good- I know this is expected to be progressive discussion, just wanted to make it clear that although I'm bringing up a slew of Pokemon, I'm not skeptical of the tier list altogether. I'm just bringing up a few subtle changes that I think need to be considered.
Feel free to respond on anything I post here, I'm curious on a lot of the suspect Pokemon. Once SPL is over for me (hopefully not soon!) I'll start testing a bit more with this new stuff, but for now I can only do so much since I have final exams next week plus (hopefully) a playoff match to prepare for.
S-Tier
{suspects: Heatran(D)}
Tyranitar: (DOWN) a little high. A is probably a better fit.
Charizard-Y: (DOWN) pretty much the same as Tyranitar. I can't really give an amazing explanation for each other than that they definitely are not in the same league as Cresselia / Rotom-W / Landorus-T / Kangaskhan
A-Tier
{suspects: Gardevoir(D), Ludicolo(D), Latios(D), Talonflame(D), Togekiss(U)}
Landorus-T: (UP) definitely S-tier, probably the Pokemon I feel most strongly about on this list. The whole "which item does it have?" "is it going to U-Turn?" "is it going to outspeed me?" ("which item does it have?") "is it going to out-damage me?" ("which item does it have?") "if it does U-Turn, what is it going to switch into?" "if it doesn't U-Turn, what is it going to do?" is enough reason the timer is not enough for Smogon Doubles matches. I didn't use this thing in 6/9 of my SPL matches because I liked it aesthetically, I used it because it's borderline broken due to the ridiculous amount of options it gets. If we had to suspect test a Pokemon, this would be my nomination before Kangaskhan, Cresselia, and Heatran.
Rotom-W: (UP) the insane amount of good scenarios this thing can create probably makes it worthy of consideration as an S-tier Pokemon. This and Landorus-T both aren't far-fetched S-Tier Pokemon and both have seen enough successful use for this to be considered.
B-Tier
{suspects: Jirachi(U), Jellicent(U/D), Mew(U/D), Rotom-H(U), Suicune(U), Trevenant(D), Tornadus(D), Thundurus-Therian(U), Goodra(D), Greninja(D), Metagross(D), Sylveon(D)}
Amoonguss: (UP) mostly because of sleep clause probably going away.
Breloom: (UP) same reasoning as Amoonguss. Both belong in A now.
Bisharp: (UP) Knock Off getting buffed makes Bisharp more than the strongest 50/50er in the game.
Deoxys-A: (DOWN) at least one tier, if not two. Biggest gimper ever, no defense, no type synergy.
Klefki: (DOWN) at least one tier, if not two. Has absolutely no offense, decent typing doesn't make up for it. "Support" should really never be dedicated to an entire Pokemon in doubles.
C-Tier
{suspects: Blaziken(U), Aerodactyl(U), Arcanine(U), Porygon2(U), Rhyperior(U), Meowstic(D), Zygarde(D)}
Escavalier: (UP) Drill Run allows it to take care of Heatran inside of Trick Room. I think B is a safe place for Escavalier. It's better than Scizor non-mega, but doesn't have mega potential, so Scizor should probably never be more than a tier ahead of it, and I think moving Escavalier up is safer than moving Scizor down.
Mantine: (DOWN) what the hell is this doing here? I love Mantine, don't get me wrong, but I have so many doubts that this is validly a C tier Pokemon. I'm super welcoming to see this thing kick ass, though, so prove me wrong please.
Torterra: (DOWN) No way. I'm even more skeptical about Torterra than I am about Mantine and I don't know if any convincing could get me to accept Torterra as C tier, much less D tier, much less ahead of Eviolite Grotle (which is probably not even C tier to begin with.)
D-Tier
Why does this tier even exist? I don't know what it's accomplishing other than appeasing potential singles fans (which we want to do, but certainly not with tier lists: the goal here should be to inform!)
Edit: C-Rank for Diggersby and Raikou seems pretty fair, to add to that discussion.
I really like this list so far Zach. It definitely shows how you're thinking when it comes to Doubles vs VGC.
I'm not sure I agree with Lando going up, as we have pretty much 3 ways on every team to take it down. That Ice weakness it has is so easily exploited, as is its Water weakness. While I agree it could go up, I'm not sure it should, at least not yet. Rotom-W definitely needs a boost up though. The sheer amount of sets it can run efficiently (screens, offensive, Scarf, Dual Status, trick scarf, bulky slowtom, etc) is pretty much the reason we put TTar in S rank in Gen 5. It still has amazing typing and if you don't prep for it you could end up losing.
As for S Rank drops, I can see CharY dropping, just as Trevenant dropped before. It got insanely hyped and everyone either ran it or overprepared for it. Now it's just another, better Ability Volcarona, but without the excellent Boosting move or typing. I can't say if TTar should drop or not just yet though. There has been a rise in its popularity recently, as CharY has leveled back out and I know Laga hyped the Scarf Set, which gives it a bit more room to run with for now. People are even starting to run Dark Pulse on it now to combat the slew of Intimidate spam that has surged in popularity.
For your B Ranks, I totally agree with Bisharp. While his ability makes him absolutely monstrous in normal play, he has the attack stat, the typing and the Movepool to be a serious threat even if the opponent doesn't run a single Intimidate user. He's also the number 1 Trick Room killer bar none. Amoongus and Breloom will also naturally rise as Sleep Clause phases out (if it does). I do think DeoA needs a rank drop, but not so harsh as D. C rank is a good fit for it. I know there's not much room for Glass Cannons this gen, but it can still pressure the hell out of teams lacking a substantial amount of late game bulk. btw DQuag, that's how you drop a pun.
Finally, D Rank is there as a kind of catch all for terrible Doubles mons that we catch frequently on the ladder as Singles players come in to try it out. Although I've seen Blissey pull some work a time or two, it doesn't have a solid place in a Minimize-less Metagame.
I'm not sure I agree with Lando going up, as we have pretty much 3 ways on every team to take it down. That Ice weakness it has is so easily exploited, as is its Water weakness. While I agree it could go up, I'm not sure it should, at least not yet. Rotom-W definitely needs a boost up though. The sheer amount of sets it can run efficiently (screens, offensive, Scarf, Dual Status, trick scarf, bulky slowtom, etc) is pretty much the reason we put TTar in S rank in Gen 5. It still has amazing typing and if you don't prep for it you could end up losing.
As for S Rank drops, I can see CharY dropping, just as Trevenant dropped before. It got insanely hyped and everyone either ran it or overprepared for it. Now it's just another, better Ability Volcarona, but without the excellent Boosting move or typing. I can't say if TTar should drop or not just yet though. There has been a rise in its popularity recently, as CharY has leveled back out and I know Laga hyped the Scarf Set, which gives it a bit more room to run with for now. People are even starting to run Dark Pulse on it now to combat the slew of Intimidate spam that has surged in popularity.
For your B Ranks, I totally agree with Bisharp. While his ability makes him absolutely monstrous in normal play, he has the attack stat, the typing and the Movepool to be a serious threat even if the opponent doesn't run a single Intimidate user. He's also the number 1 Trick Room killer bar none. Amoongus and Breloom will also naturally rise as Sleep Clause phases out (if it does). I do think DeoA needs a rank drop, but not so harsh as D. C rank is a good fit for it. I know there's not much room for Glass Cannons this gen, but it can still pressure the hell out of teams lacking a substantial amount of late game bulk. btw DQuag, that's how you drop a pun.
Finally, D Rank is there as a kind of catch all for terrible Doubles mons that we catch frequently on the ladder as Singles players come in to try it out. Although I've seen Blissey pull some work a time or two, it doesn't have a solid place in a Minimize-less Metagame.
hi zach have you ever heard of choice overload ;] yeah your post is really hard to process, at least if you plan on taking each and every mon you brought up into consideration...
Now two of your noms really stood out to me; Landorus-T to S rank and Rotom-W for S rank. I definitely think that Landorus-T is an S rank, and I am straight up surprised that it isn't now that I think about it. It's just one of those Pokemon that you use without even thinking about it (probably why it's the most used Pokemon in SPL).
Now Rotom-W, on the other hand, is something I am going to have to disagree with. Even though it's defenses are solid, especially its typing, its HP really just is a huge bummer. Rotom-W isn't a Pokemon that just sits there and takes hits without giving two shits like Cresselia does, and it doesn't really hit hard enough (can't kill megazard, can't even kill Heatran without investment), and it's Speed is fairly low.
Even though Rotom is an amazing check to Water, Fire, and Flying types, you usually have to pack extra checks / counters for these Pokemon, because Rotom just cannot stomach them that amazingly. Now that Assault Vest Ludicolo is popular, it doesn't deal with Rain; now that Sun only exists because of Zard Y, it doesn't deal with Sun either (Solarbeam easily 2HKOs any rotom, can't kill with tbolt). Of course, it can switch into these moves, but it can't defeat them single handedly. This is because of its really bad HP stat that just brings it down big time. What are you going to use an amazing defensive typing when Mega Kangaskhan can OHKO your rotom with fake out + return. It really just doesn't consistently take hits and it definitely cannot do all that much back once it has taken a hit.
Now two of your noms really stood out to me; Landorus-T to S rank and Rotom-W for S rank. I definitely think that Landorus-T is an S rank, and I am straight up surprised that it isn't now that I think about it. It's just one of those Pokemon that you use without even thinking about it (probably why it's the most used Pokemon in SPL).
Now Rotom-W, on the other hand, is something I am going to have to disagree with. Even though it's defenses are solid, especially its typing, its HP really just is a huge bummer. Rotom-W isn't a Pokemon that just sits there and takes hits without giving two shits like Cresselia does, and it doesn't really hit hard enough (can't kill megazard, can't even kill Heatran without investment), and it's Speed is fairly low.
Even though Rotom is an amazing check to Water, Fire, and Flying types, you usually have to pack extra checks / counters for these Pokemon, because Rotom just cannot stomach them that amazingly. Now that Assault Vest Ludicolo is popular, it doesn't deal with Rain; now that Sun only exists because of Zard Y, it doesn't deal with Sun either (Solarbeam easily 2HKOs any rotom, can't kill with tbolt). Of course, it can switch into these moves, but it can't defeat them single handedly. This is because of its really bad HP stat that just brings it down big time. What are you going to use an amazing defensive typing when Mega Kangaskhan can OHKO your rotom with fake out + return. It really just doesn't consistently take hits and it definitely cannot do all that much back once it has taken a hit.
I may comment more on Braverius' post later, but for know
Wouldn't it be best to hold off moving these two on the basis of sleep clause till sleep clause is actually lifted? Even though it will probably be lifted, I don't want to count the chicks before the eggs hatch.
On this topic, I would like to see Whismicott nominated to move down to C rank. I think it's worse than Klefki. No offense too, but worse typing than Klefki. Tailwind instead of Thunder Wave, and whilst Taunt and Encore are great, you can work around them, as you should always suspect them when Whimsicott is out. It's harder to work around them than Screens.
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It's a lesser Suicune but with access to Wide Guard and Helping Hand. I'll try to come up with a solid replay. But, generally you can expect it to take hits and support teammates.
Yea its kind of easy to agree with all of these bolded suggestions. The only one I don't agree with is Deo-A simply because all it has to do is attack once to do its job(kill or significantly cripple one thing) and it can often attack several times due to Sash+Detect and Follow Me/Fake Out support. A bunch of these suspects make sense, but a whooole lot of them are skeptical.
Lando-T explanation is spot on and I like the idea of it replacing Tyranitar's spot in the S rank. Although, the recent surge of special Tyranitar has been interesting.