Wigglytuff's role is likely centered around keeping Intimidate users out. However, having played the team somewhat, I can definitely tell Wigglytuff appears to be a weak spot overall (just not enough bulk ;-;). The question is whether that Fairy-typing or the Intimidate discouragement is more important, as no other pokemon provide both.Question: for what reason is Wigglytuff put on the team as opposed to something like Sylveon? The advantage in bulk is only noticeable on the special side and even then barely so; in contrast, Sylveon is significantly more powerful and also faster. Competitive doesn't stand as a reason either, as the team is dominantly special oriented and has nothing to fair from Intimidate. Coverage is not a reason either because everything Tuff carries is repetitive (except Thunderbolt I guess). Sylveon helps patch up the problem Nollan brought up; it can reliably OHKO a wide range of threats and pairs very well with Mega Lucario, able to clear both opponents at once while Luc Subs up.
If I were to make a change, the most immediate one would be Wigglytuff --> Sylveon.
Can't a well played Terrakion kinda shit on half of this team? pls explain.Anyway I'm going to write a full report on my experience with the team (note I am the type of guy who changes things up frequently to see whats works and what doesn't work). Also note I was trying to keep the original members as much as possible. I've also recorded the majority of my games just so you guys can potentially make your changes based off of what you see in my games (this is only if you are lazy, however). Finally, note I played out of the majority of the low ladder with my own team just to get into more solid territory.
Test Run #1 (approx. 6 games); high end of low ladder
During the original test run it was pretty clear the team was in need of some improvement. Wigglytuff put in very little work as even when it got +2 (which always happened since no one knew it had Competitive) it was just too slow to really capitalize. Heatran also had more trouble switching in with its minimal bulk investment, which was something I personally did not like. Hydreigon was also struggling to get the OHKOs it often needed to get.
Replays
vs hiphop01
vs Kaisermattia
Resulting Changes (Heatran and Hydreigon replaced)
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Protect
I honestly opted for this simply because I liked the offensive presence Eruption could provide.
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Protect
Earth Power was used over Fire Blast because I felt the team really struggled against Heatran if it was supported by Amoonguss per se; I concede this is based off of theory as I didn't run into those but those two are common together so I figured having a lot of ways to hit Heatran would allow me to take my time vs Amoonguss and then have enough options around to beat a Heatran behind a Substitute.
Test Run #2 (approx. 5 games); low ladder to mid ladder; ranked #243 at end; 1 loss thus far
Eruption Heatran put in a lot of work, but I did feel it wasn't as necessary change and something more of preference. Hydreigon worked far better with LO; getting the OHKOs it needed to get vs Trick Room teams among other things. Wigglytuff remained a problem and while Taunt was great in certain matchups (Trick Room especially) I wasn't getting the results I wanted from Gyarados, either. At the end of the day, I conceded that Wigglytuff couldn't stay if it wasn't able to help do any of the jobs it was supposed to do.
Replays
vs galioneg
vs Kwame120
vs Kaito Satoshi
Resulting Changes (Wigglytuff removed; Gyarados and Heatran replaced)
Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 112 HP / 4 Def / 192 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect
I essentially decided swapping to Eruptran was very premature so went back to the original, but I changed to a bulkier spread that could tank a 252+ Lando-T Superpower, while giving me some more bulk to work with (in relation to the 56 HP variant).
Wigglytuff
Thundurus-T @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch
Quite the unusual pick you would probably think, but there were two things going through my head when making this choice: A) provide a Fighting-type resistance and/or beat Fighting-types offensively, B) beat Scarf Lando-T for Lucario. Thundurus-T provides both of these, being able to outspeed 252+ Scarf Lando and OHKO with HP Ice. It also can keep offensive momentum going with Volt Switch which just allows it to help the team move around a bit faster which from my experience was something I would have liked to do in many situations. It also provided another counter for Talonburd which Lucario absolutely hates (as does Amoonguss).
Gyarados @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 160 HP / 136 Atk / 4 Def / 52 SpD / 156 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
- Protect
Basically I went with a hybrid support + Dragon Dance set (dropped TWave because I don't like how it interferes with Spore though TWave over Protect was something I considered). EVs allow Gyara to beat our Mega Luke by 1 point after Dragon Dance, while it has just enough attack to OHKO 180 HP Heatran with Waterfall at +1. Taunt is there to shut down WoW and Spore and what not (common methods of stopping/slowing down DDance Gyara)
Test Run #3 (approx. 7 games); mid ladder; ranked #304 at end; 4 losses thus far
As I got higher it seemed I couldn't win games as often since I lacked powerful physical attackers (lost to Light Screen Klefki + Stored Power CM Meowstic ;-;), I didn't really know what I could do to improve at this point but I just went with some slight changes. I also held back from any huge changes as I was playing really subpar this run, dropping 1 of my games entirely due to a misplay.
Replays
vs Hogan
vs dabeast2003
vs Escama
vs Aerogon
vs pikapip1010
Resulting Changes (Gyarados and Heatran replaced)
Went back to the Eruptran set, wanting that raw power (I missed the WIN BUTTON tbch ;-;)
Gyarados @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 72 Atk / 168 Def / 24 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Waterfall
- Icy Wind
- Taunt
- Swagger
Went back to the support set finding that the speed control was important, but used Icy Wind to avoid TWave and Spore messing w/ eachother. Swagger was the final slot since I saw nothing else to really put there (besides Protect which from experience w/ bulky Gyara I rarely use; Protect is an option I'd say however), and it does make life easier against special attackers (mixes somewhat well with the fact it weakens physical attackers with Intimidate).
Final Run (approx. 10 games); mid ladder to high ladder; ranked #37 at end; 4 overall losses
The slight changes helped a lot, as the lineup went 10 games with no losses (then I stopped so have yet to lose basically). With its massive bulk Gyarados put in a lot of work, throwing out Icy Winds to slow down the opposition whenever given the opportunity, while shutting down TR with Taunt. Even Swagger had some use; making Aegislash in particular cringe.
Final Score: 31-4-0 with 1610 ELO
Replays
vs suplee0215
vs Shaian
vs hashtag smogon
vs Gentleman Vi (he gets swag points for using an awesome VGC team jsyk)
vs Izinski
vs Escama (r2)
vs Yuga of CS10K
Final Results
I am Legend (Lucario) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 8 HP / 172 Atk / 80 SpA / 248 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Flash Cannon
- Substitute
- Protect
Benja's Mother (Gyarados) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 72 Atk / 168 Def / 24 SpD
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Waterfall
- Icy Wind
- Taunt
- Swagger
Fangame "Counter" (Amoonguss) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 96 Def / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Giga Drain
- Spore
- Rage Powder
- Protect
Win Button (Heatran) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Protect
PuppetShows (Hydreigon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Protect
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch
Overall while many changes has a bit of preference to them, I think all of them really helped this team get to the point where it made it past the top 50 marker (and can potentially make it further). I'd also like to apologize for replacing Wigglytuff, but as many replays demonstrate it just didn't have the bulk it needed and was easily wiped out by double targets. As per the changes, Thundurus-T was just amazing, providing a way to get rid of Lando-T before it could do anything. It also could pivot into anything I needed to get in, which was great. Gyarados worked better with Icy Wind from my experience, though you could replace Swagger with Stone Edge if you wanted to; that option was just preferable for me really. Life Orb on Hydreigon was without question better; Hydreigon definitely wants the power rather than the ability to tank Fighting-type attacks. Eruptran was definitely better, as with Thundy-T around hitting Lando-T is not neccessary, and Dragons would still take low damage from HP Ice since it has a lack 60bp. Eruption was an amazing option vs sun and Trick Room, and having that ability to do massive damage onto both foes really gave the team more offensive presence. I managed to keep 2 sets 100% the same, which given how much I like to toy around with teams is a big plus for me I'd say.
I must say, this team definitely took a new approach to the meta in comparison to what I usually see, slowing down the opposition through Icy Wind and Spore while letting heavy hitters like Hydreigon and Lucario plow through teams. Most teams work off of priority and Fake Out support to get that big damage in, so it was a nice change of pace (for me at least).
Anyways, hopefully this provided some nice insight to the team and the process I went through to eventually get it past that top 50 marker.
Will do.Can't a well played Terrakion kinda shit on half of this team? pls explain.
Also nickname Thundy-T "rawr"
you can't post it here, but you can post it in the np thread, where discussion of the metagame takes place, or as a thread in the RMT section to get your team discussed on and improved by others.So I think I developed a pretty solid team here. Am I allowed to post it here freely?
1. agreed, ferros set was added before tr was. its kind of neat without it though ~_~I just used that team to win a roomtour (with the help of amazing skill) and it's pretty solid but:
- Ferro's set is dumb, just use the standard set (Whip / Gyro / Leech Seed / Protect). Rocky Helmet is kind of clutch though, worth using over Lum perhaps.
- double Helping Hand lol use Encore on Toed
I did run into Wide Guard, which made Hydro Pump on Kingdra pretty nice (as opposed to something like Sub). It also does massive damage to Aegislash which is always a plus.