Pokémon Deoxys-Speed

[mertyville]

After seeing how well Talonflame is doing, I won't be suprised if Deoxys-S would go to Ubers in a Matter of Month.
Talonflame might have always piority on its Brave Bird, but Deoxys has insane Speed, better offense and bulk, larger movepool (offensive and defensive), and of course just in case ExtremeSpeed. Usually I would prefer myself a Suicide-Leader, but that seems to be a waste for the Mary Sue of Pokemon.

 

[Shurtugal]

All out LO / Sash attacker Deo-S is not posted on the poll? Its strong enough to RK anything on HO and has the second-fastest taunt in the game (first goes to Thund) which can easily break bulky teams too. It has one of the best offensive move pools you could ever ask for in a Pokemon it can lure almost anything you want it to: Genesect, Tyranitar, Chansey, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, Lucario (without priority), Excadrill, etc. with almost abundant ease.

However, I do appreciate it's ability on HO to set up hazards. It's impossible to stop (you just Ice Beam Taunt / TWave Thund) and it gets up hazards with impunity, and it can stop defog users easily with the combination of Taunt and Ice Beam as IB OHKO and 2HKOs the entire Defog metagame, with Fire Punch / HP FIre doing more to steel-type defoggers like Scizor or Skarmory.

Anyway, I think it's similarities to Deo-N might be a reason why it might get suspect tested. (Actually it's worse than Deo-N...)

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

All out LO / Sash attacker Deo-S is not posted on the poll? Its strong enough to RK anything on HO and has the second-fastest taunt in the game (first goes to Thund) which can easily break bulky teams too. It has one of the best offensive move pools you could ever ask for in a Pokemon it can lure almost anything you want it to: Genesect, Tyranitar, Chansey, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Manaphy, Lucario (without priority), Excadrill, etc. with almost abundant ease.

However, I do appreciate it's ability on HO to set up hazards. It's impossible to stop (you just Ice Beam Taunt / TWave Thund) and it gets up hazards with impunity, and it can stop defog users easily with the combination of Taunt and Ice Beam as IB OHKO and 2HKOs the entire Defog metagame, with Fire Punch / HP FIre doing more to steel-type defoggers like Scizor or Skarmory.

Anyway, I think it's similarities to Deo-N might be a reason why it might get suspect tested. (Actually it's worse than Deo-N...)

At the time, the mixed attacker set was not listed. Thankfully, it was added to the list by popularity, and for quite a good reason. If Haunter stands by his statement for Deoxys-S being the first Suspect Test, then we know what's coming up first. If memory serves, Suspect Tests are meant for Pokemon that are "borderline overpowered, but maybe just top-tier threat", which somewhat sums Deoxys-S up. The unpredictibility results from the late-game sweeper and Revenge Killer, the Hazards, Dual Screens, and Trick sets. It doesn't do any of them the best; some will argue Espeon as a better Screen Setter, Klefki has Prankster Spikes, its power is definitely lackluster, and as for Trick...eh, I say it's one of the best, actually. It DOES do them particularly well, which is scary on its own right.

By the way, here's a reminder of why Deoxys-S would be Suspect Tested, said by the big man himself:

Deoxys-S can be a terror for offensive teams but, unlike it's Attack and Normal counterparts, it lacks the firepower to break balanced/defensive teams, which is exactly why I said that, should Deoxys-S get banned, it certainly won't be because of its offensive presence. Again, its attacking stats are mediocre at best and unless it manages to hit its opponent for SE damage, it's not going to do much.

Deo-S was banned under the support characteristic in Gen V and supporting its team mates is still what it does best in this generation.

Deoxys-S does have one nerf I've seen and not heard too much of, but it's an indirect one: the metagame is based around Bulk and Priority. Deoxys-S doesn't have the raw power to wallbreak and it suffers from Priority in the forms of Aegislash, Talonflame, Scizor, Lucario, and many more. Opposing Prankster Pokemon are also a hassle for the alien to outdo, since they have Priority with everything not an attack. The only other thing is that, as a Pokemon without enough bulk to exploit it, Pressure is a relatively useless ability. It would've greatly appreciated Regenerator or Magic Guard as an available ability (not likely, but when you think about it, Mewtwo was planned to get Unnerve...oh the thoughts of that). As is, though, oh well; you win some, you lose some.

You bring up a good point, Shurtugal, in that Deoxys-S can actually hold its own against common Defoggers. I believe that THIS is the thing that sets Deoxys-S apart from most hazard setters, bar Stealth Rock Mamoswine and one or two other examples I can't think of.

 

[DontStealMyPenguin]

boosting special sweeper is good. you don't need any speed investment at all really as it outspeeds timid jolteon (not worth running max speed just to beat scarvers). 252 hp, 252 special attack, modest, life orb

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

boosting special sweeper is good. you don't need any speed investment at all really as it outspeeds timid jolteon (not worth running max speed just to beat scarvers). 252 hp, 252 special attack, modest, life orb

Mind you, the maximum speed isn't just for Scarf Pokemon, but every Pokemon that could boost its speed. Dragonite (despite ExtremeSpeed), Haxorus, and any Pokemon with less speed than Emolga at +1, meaning Deoxys-S can switch in and attack immediately. That is the greatest advantage with Max Speed Deoxys-S, especially since you'll be coming in on a Pokemon it hits Super-Effectively. The ability to attack first against many +1 threats is nice without a Choice Scarf, but I still prefer its Support Sets more because it's likely to succeed more in that area. Despite this, the complete unpredictibility is always a good reason to run Deoxys-S...unless your opponent is smart and can tell what set is has depending on when it comes in (unless you start attacking...could throw them off).

 

[Shurtugal]

Just run enough speed 4 scarf gene imo

 

[aVocado]

I agree with Shurtugal, one of the reasons I ran (LO) Droxys-S was because it could OHKO and outspeed Genesect with HP Fire on turn 1, which leaves me with an early 6-5 advantage, especially since Deo-S is unpredictable and the opponent would think that a Deo-S lead would be the regular hazards lead, only to be surprised with an OHKO on Genesect and non-sash/chople berry/mega (lol) Tyranitar.

 

[Ash Borer]

lmao, lead Deo-S has ran fire punch as its attack in ubers for so long that anyone with a brain, or decent rating, will certainly not leave a Genesect in against a deoxys-S.

Also why are you laughing at mega tyranitar? It's a fantastically bulky and strong pursuit trapper, and stealth rock setter?

 

[aVocado]

lmao, lead Deo-S has ran fire punch as its attack in ubers for so long that anyone with a brain, or decent rating, will certainly not leave a Genesect in against a deoxys-S.

Also why are you laughing at mega tyranitar? It's a fantastically bulky and strong pursuit trapper, and stealth rock setter?

Well, I haven't played Ubers (and I wasn't around when Deo-S was OU, both in DPP and BW) and I'm sure a lot others haven't as well, so I don't know why you think it's funny.

And I wasn't loling at mega ttar per se, but at sash ttar and to an extent, chople berry ttar. they seem like a waste of items on him.

Ultimately, attacking deo-s lead is still good, really. If the opposite Pokemon is x4 (or x2, and frail) weak to something, OHKO it. Otherwise, you could switch into a suitable counter. Then after that it could be used mid-game as a revenge-killer or late-game as a cleaner, if it's safe.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

lmao, lead Deo-S has ran fire punch as its attack in ubers for so long that anyone with a brain, or decent rating, will certainly not leave a Genesect in against a deoxys-S.

Not like people will switch Deoxys-S into Genesect unless they have Focus Sash and no hazards on the field, but you're right about THAT part.

Anyways, update time!

- Changed the Overview since I felt that it didn't really do much justice to Deoxys-S after a couple rereads.
- Added Sticky Web to the list of Checks and Counters. It definitely weakens Deoxys-S at what it does, as does any Entry Hazard, really. The damaging Hazards break its Sash and limit its Life Orb...life...really need somebody to word that better. Sticky Web also drops the Speed of Deoxys-S, which is its greatest strength.
- Added Mandibuzz as a check to the Hazard Set, but ONLY the Hazard Set. The Dual Screens set reduces the damage done, Choice Scarf can be tricked onto it, and Offensive Deoxys-S almost always carries a Super-Effective move that can hurt it on the switch, whether it be Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, or Rock Slide.

Things I might add:

- "Deoxys-S threatens most Genesect out, especially if it carries Fire Punch. With this, it takes down the Buginator in no time flat. Deoxys-S, however, cannot directly switch into Genesect."
- Cloyster with Focus Sash can "Revenge Set-Up" on Deoxys-S and outspeed it after Shell Smash and Maximum Speed.

Continue to discuss.

 

[Irelia]

I kind of want to add that Landorus-I wasn't banned solely because of U-Turn. Its ability to go Physical with Sand Force was enough of a merit to run it in Sandstorm, but its ability to go Special with Sheer Force was just as feared. It wasn't just U-Turn; it was also completely unpredictible and could easily throw anybody off, almost guaranteeing a free KO. To clearify, Life Orb Deoxys-S may be a threat to Offensive Teams, but that's just the tip of the iceberg of what it can do. Is it a good Revenge Killer? Yes. Is it a good sweeper? To some extent. In general, though, most people see Deoxys-S as support, which it can pull off well...arguably better than it can with offenses, but that's another story. Mega Gengar didn't just threaten stall, anyways; it threatened EVERYTHING. Landorus-I didn't just threaten stall; it threatened just about EVERYTHING. Deoxys-S always threatened everything because of its unpredictibility, making it hard to guess what it will do. Haunter made a point stated here:



It's not Deoxys-S's main selling point, so it's unlikely going to be the reason it will be banned. As Haunter has said, unless Deoxys-S is hitting for Super-Effective damage, it's not doing...THAT much, especially with Bulky Offense rising up.

Just a small nitpick. Even though Deo-S gets great coverage, I don't think that makes him a good sweeper. With those slightly less than average (for OU anyways) offenses it would be more of a late game cleaner than an all out sweeper since it's too frail to boost and too weak to break though things that it doesn't hit for SE damage.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Just a small nitpick. Even though Deo-S gets great coverage, I don't think that makes him a good sweeper. With those slightly less than average (for OU anyways) offenses it would be more of a late game cleaner than an all out sweeper since it's too frail to boost and too weak to break though things that it doesn't hit for SE damage.

Which has been brought up by our heavenly lord, Haunter. Because of this, he mentions the following:

Base 95 offensive stats are pathetic in today's metagame so, if this thing gets banned, it's gonna be probably because of its support characteristics.

Yet despite this, the Offensive Sets have gained popularity. Is it only because low ranking players?

 

[Irelia]

Which has been brought up by our heavenly lord, Haunter. Because of this, he mentions the following:



Yet despite this, the Offensive Sets have gained popularity. Is it only because low ranking players?

No, it's mostly because of its revenge killing. With a LO he gets the power boost and is still blistering fast. So he can revenge without being locked into a move, making him that much harder to switch into until you know what coverage moves he's running.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

No, it's mostly because of its revenge killing. With a LO he gets the power boost and is still blistering fast. So he can revenge without being locked into a move, making him that much harder to switch into until you know what coverage moves he's running.

Most Deoxys-S don't run Shadow Ball and your typical Aegislash is 3HKO'd by Fire Punch (assuming Kejmur's spread). On top of that, 252+ Atk Aegislash's Shadow Claw is a guaranteed OHKO (of course, in Blade Forme, but by then, it took two hits). Shadow Sneak does 73 - 87.1% against Kejmur's spread on Deoxys-S. For the rest of the calculations, when Deoxys-S attacks, it showcases the strongest possible attack on the typical Deoxys-S.

100 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 156-185 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Togekiss switches in, tanks two Rock Slides to use Thunder Wave Deoxys-S, then Roosts until it hits enough health, and use Air Slash for Paraflinch. Just watch for Rock Slide Flinch.

176 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 58-69 (19 - 22.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Look at that! Deoxys-D can, so obviously, tank any hit from Deoxys-S and then use it as Hazard Fodder, using Recover to get some health back.

176 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Continuously use Recover until close to full, then finish it off with Shadow Ball.

100 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 120-143 (32.9 - 39.2%) -- 12.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Meteor Mash+Bullet Punch.

176 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mew: 81-95 (20 - 23.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

...I speak none of Mew's advantage.

176 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 129-152 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- 35.9% chance to 3HKO

Recover, then attack.

100 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sableye: 95-112 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Foul Play it.

100 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 151-179 (44.2 - 52.4%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO

Revenge Switch.

100 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Wobbuffet: 116-136 (19.8 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

...be Wobbuffet.

176 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Wynaut: 90-107 (27.1 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Okay, that's just sad...

176 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 199-235 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Revenge ResTalk for the win!

176 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 187-220 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

...here too!

100 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 317-374 (45 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO

Superpower weakens, so you'll survive to Softboil.

Other Pokemon Deoxys-S has trouble 2HKOing includes Spiritomb and Steelix...not like it matters for them; they'll never touch OU.

Keep in mind the following moves were taken into consideration: Superpower, Psycho Boost, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Fire Punch, and Rock Slide. These Pokemon above are typically semi-safe switch-ins. Some might not be considered MetaMaterial, but this once again proves a statement made by Haunter:

Deoxys-S can be a terror for offensive teams but, unlike it's Attack and Normal counterparts, it lacks the firepower to break balanced/defensive teams, which is exactly why I said that, should Deoxys-S get banned, it certainly won't be because of its offensive presence. Again, its attacking stats are mediocre at best and unless it manages to hit its opponent for SE damage, it's not going to do much.

Deo-S was banned under the support characteristic in Gen V and supporting its team mates is still what it does best in this generation.

Most of the above Pokemon are being hit Super-Effectively (those that aren't are typically because Psycho Boost or are Bulky-Psychics). A few make for good Revenge-Switches while others can come in and threaten Deoxys-S...usually by stalling. What did you say before about "making him that much harder to switch into"? Well, these Pokemon can do it, but some of them will fail against the Support Sets. For example, Milotic, Chansey, Wobbuffet, Jellicent, and Deoxys-D would dislike their item being traded for Choice Scarf, anything missing Priority Taunt will hate getting Hazards, and the same group wouldn't like Screens up on them either. Even then, Magic Coat could stop that Taunt...Sableye.

 

[BROloom]

Honestly surprised there is no knock off in any sets. The Deoxys are some of the best users of it.

 

[Always!]

^Double post much?

Anyway, I have used almost all variants of Deoxys, and I feel that the dual screening/hAZArds are the best, due to how easily they can be set up, and how unpredictable it is in General.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Honestly surprised there is no knock off in any sets. The Deoxys are some of the best users of it.

I did put it on "Other Options" to see if somebody would make a Support Set using Knock Off. I'd personally combine Spikes, Taunt, Ice Beam, and Knock Off on a set, but I'm afraid that it'd come off as gimmicky.

^Double post much?

*Fixed. When internet problems happen on an iPad, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

[haunter]

ShadowMarioGalaxy64: all the calculations for Psycho Boost don't take into account the SpA drop after the 1st hit, so the possible 2HKO on stuff like Jellicent, Suicune, Milotic and the likes is actually a 3-4 HKO (for example: -2 Psycho Boost on 252 HP Suicune: 24.5 - 29.2%). Fact is: Deo-S will never get past those Pokémon unless it runs unusual moves like Grass Knot or Thunder and predicts the switch in.

As I said before, Deo-S' offensive sets are a real threat for balanced/bulky offensive teams only if they can hit for super effective damage.

Also, probably it's just me, but I've never faced a Rock Slide Deo-S. Usual offensive Deo-S runs: Superpower/Ice Beam/Psycho Boost/Fire Punch-HP Fire.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Also, probably it's just me, but I've never faced a Rock Slide Deo-S. Usual offensive Deo-S runs: Superpower/Ice Beam/Psycho Boost/Fire Punch-HP Fire.

It was an option on Kejmur's set and I wanted to prove that, even if Deoxys-S used it, there would be Pokemon that could survive it (though at a time where Genesect is running around, I don't see reason NOT to use Fire Punch). Offensive Deoxys-S is one of those Pokemon that works well against Hyper-Offense and if a team struggles to stop this kind of team, it could be a neat addition. On the other hand, it could be nothing more than dead fodder against balanced and bulky offensive teams, especially for the specific Pokemon that aren't typically hit Super-Effectively. Unless your team in question is Hyper-Offense, it just might be better to run something else for stopping that threat; bulkier Pokemon like Rotom-W, Prankster Pokemon like Sableye--the options are all out there and they aren't solely limited to stopping Hyper-Offense like Offensive Deoxys-S is. This is why I, personally, have preferred Support. It threatens most teams, not just one or two. For Revenge Killing, I once again claim that I just prefer other Pokemon; typically those with Priority.

That's not to say that I haven't had problems against Deoxys-S in my own experience. I fought one and it was able to Revenge Kill my Mega Lucario while surviving ExtremeSpeed. Yeah, I was caught off guard, but I was then able to recover the loss (didn't help that the opponent was down to Deoxys-S and Gengar). The typical Offensive Deoxys-S is simple and can be played around relatively easily (say, throwing WeakNite into an Ice Beam and proceeding to take it out with ExtremeSpeed that does at least 70% damage when Jolly...what, too gimmicky?).

It doesn't help on Psycho Boost's drop...well, it helps with switching in ^_^

 

[Always!]

Just to make an observation, using Deoxys-S for a late game cleaner purpose, one must realize that it needs a team that, in my experience, is heavily tailored to weakening anything this thing can't KO. Things like Sableye and stuff are extremely annoying and make this things life miserable, especially if your team has a problem with it. An excellent partner is Talonflame, who has the advantage of being able to force out or stop a boosted sweeper like Volcarona, who otherwise could just shit on your Deoxys-S. Another good teammate is Kyurem-B (or any good wallbreaker), who can snap most other pokemon in half simply due to sheer force, paving the way for a clean up with Deoxys-S.

^Musings, any thoughts?

 

[Tesung]

Deoxys s isn't the most threatening mon for stall teams, and it's not a 2hko machine like landorus I or cb terrakion, but it's combination of speed and coverage is amazing against offensive teams, where often the entire team is weak to one of its moves, or frail enough to be ohkoes by psycho boost. It's not a sweeper like volcarona or lucario that just sets up midgame and wins, but it is a revenge killer who doesn't lose as much momentum Or require prediction, who can also clean late game. It's not something that "noobs" use, and honestly I feel like the hazard lead set is done better by deoxys d

 

[BecauseSmurt]

Just letting everyone know that Deoxys-S will be the first Pokemon to be suspect tested in Gen VI. Also remember that this thread is to discuss on how effective this Pokemon is in the current Pokebank metagame, not whether it's Ubers material or not.

Are you fucking serious? Are we really suspecting something that isn't even broken in this meta, while everybody calls for Mega Lucario, Genesect, and Mega Pinsir suspecting? That's cool. God damn it Smogon. This is why people think you're all elitist fucking retards.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Are you fucking serious? Are we really suspecting something that isn't even broken in this meta, while everybody calls for Mega Lucario, Genesect, and Mega Pinsir suspecting? That's cool. God damn it Smogon. This is why people think you're all elitist fucking retards.

Thanks for Necrobumping a thread just to troll everyone...gives me reason to add actual information.

ANYWAYS, I'm going to bring up something to be worth my time. When deciding whether or not Deoxys-S is a good Pokemon in the current meta, PLEASE consider the possibilities and how well it does with each of them...and ignore using ignorance.

Also, I have used a variation of the Hazard Set, with Timid and Ice Beam instead of Jolly and Fire Punch since I have most Pokemon covered that are weak to Fire-Types. Any thoughts (question meant for anybody not named BecauseSmurt)?

 

[Always!]

Thanks for Necrobumping a thread just to troll everyone...gives me reason to add actual information.

ANYWAYS, I'm going to bring up something to be worth my time. When deciding whether or not Deoxys-S is a good Pokemon in the current meta, PLEASE consider the possibilities and how well it does with each of them...and ignore using ignorance.

Also, I have used a variation of the Hazard Set, with Timid and Ice Beam instead of Jolly and Fire Punch since I have most Pokemon covered that are weak to Fire-Types. Any thoughts (question meant for anybody not named BecauseSmurt)?

Well....

It honestly depends on what you are going to have Deoxys facing. If you find yourself facing hazard setters that can also pose a threat to Deoxys like Landorus-I and such, a more utility based Pokemon, then Ice Beam is the way to go. If you end up facing stuff like Ferrothorn and Forretress more often, then Fire Punch is the way to go. It really depends on how you intend to use it (as a suicide hazard setter maybe?). The main point of Deoxys is to get up its hazards fast, and if there is no spinner/defogger, than it might as well die unless there is a pokemon that it can revenge kill in those situations (4x Dragons, etc...).

^My take on things, sorry if it doesn't make sense or is irrelevant...

Also....

Are you fucking serious? Are we really suspecting something that isn't even broken in this meta, while everybody calls for Mega Lucario, Genesect, and Mega Pinsir suspecting? That's cool. God damn it Smogon. This is why people think you're all elitist fucking retards.

What is this I don't even

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

It honestly depends on what you are going to have Deoxys facing. If you find yourself facing hazard setters that can also pose a threat to Deoxys like Landorus-I and such, a more utility based Pokemon, then Ice Beam is the way to go. If you end up facing stuff like Ferrothorn and Forretress more often, then Fire Punch is the way to go. It really depends on how you intend to use it (as a suicide hazard setter maybe?). The main point of Deoxys is to get up its hazards fast, and if there is no spinner/defogger, than it might as well die unless there is a pokemon that it can revenge kill in those situations (4x Dragons, etc...).

I may have forgotten that Ice Beam could ALSO be used for the occasional Defogger, possibly scaring it off and preventing Defog from getting out (see Mandibuzz). My views are that "if threats are covered, you can afford to use other attacks and means of dealing with your opponent", but that's just me.