Ubers Deoxys-N

[shrang]

Counter can take advantage of the small fact that Deoxys can live a Bullet Punch from Scizor or Mega Lucario, and retaliate back, but is a rather gimmicky option that has limited use.

Js, can't you just kill Scizor with HP Fire and Lucario with Psycho Boost? I don't think Counter is necessary at all.

 

[Nayrz]

Js, can't you just kill Scizor with HP Fire and Lucario with Psycho Boost? I don't think Counter is necessary at all.

Lucario does die to Psycho Boost so I will agree with you there, but Mega Scizor has a very high chance to live HP Fire, and since many run SpD investment for Xerneas, Scizor can live even after SR damage.

Also Fireburn suggested it and since the OO has to have something there thats semi-useful (Or does it?) I thought I might as well mention it.

 

[Unowninator]

Can Deoxys' Normal forme can survive anything else that Attack forme can't?

 

[Nayrz]

Can Deoxys' Normal forme can survive anything else that Attack forme can't?

If you read the analysis you would find out but i'll summarize it for ya: Bullet Punches from Mega Lucario/Scizor and Mega Kangashkan's Fake Out are the notable attacks that Deoxys can take but Deo-A can't.

 

[Kebabe]

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 184 Def Deoxys-A: 202-240 (83.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just saying that you can invest 184 def to take a fake out and still have higher offensive stats then Deo-N. So in reality thats not a niche :( But I guess that if you are in a hurry team building you can save time by going 0/0 Deoxys-N

 

[Nayrz]

252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 184 Def Deoxys-A: 202-240 (83.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Just saying that you can invest 184 def to take a fake out and still have higher offensive stats then Deo-N. So in reality thats not a niche :( But I guess that if you are in a hurry team building you can save time by going 0/0 Deoxys-N

Very true. It just goes to show exactly how useless Deo-N really is in ubers :(

 

[Unowninator]

Very true. It just goes to show exactly how useless Deo-N really is in ubers :(

If it's really that bad, wouldn't if be better to give this thing a joke analysis, if not no analysis at all?

 

[Nayrz]

If it's really that bad, wouldn't if be better to give this thing a joke analysis, if not no analysis at all?

Well there originally was a small attempt at a joke analysis (Having it so that if you click Deo-N it takes you to Deo-A), but since Deo-N is banned from OU it needs an Ubers analysis or it wouldn't get one at all, which i assume is to be avoided.

 

[Unowninator]

Well there originally was a small attempt at a joke analysis (Having it so that if you click Deo-N it takes you to Deo-A), but since Deo-N is banned from OU it needs an Ubers analysis or it wouldn't get one at all, which i assume is to be avoided.

Heh, that would've been hilarious (if done right). But still, why would it be such a bad thing for it to not have an analysis?

 

[MMII]

It has to have an analysis, not even my call on the matter.

 

[shrang]

Hmmm, I've been having a think about Deo-N. Mind you, I don't like it either, but reading past threads (see http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/deoxys-n-revamp-gp-2-2.3470901/), I think I've finally come up with some sort of niche. As mentioned in the gen 5 analysis, as well as from Kebabe, Deo-A can run a crapload of defense and survive Fake Out from MegaKhan just as well. However, I do think that because Deo-N can survive lots of unboosted priority (up to Adamant Lum Ekiller's Extreme Speed), it may be better to run a Calm Mind set while running some sort of boosting item, which Deo-A cannot run since it cannot run both defenses at once. Truth be told, you're still OHKOed by most special Scarfers even at +1 (see Kyogre, Xerneas), although you DO survive weaker attacks so Special Scarfers like Kyogre can't just starting spamming Ice Beam when the rest of your team can't take Ice Beams, for example. It's a ridiculously shitty niche, but at least it has "more" SpD than Deo-A. It still outspeeds MMY, which is good, as well as having access to Psycho Boost. Again, I'm not saying this is anywhere remotely good, but it's "something" better than Deo-A, while still differentiating itself from MMY and standard Mewtwo due to speed.

The set pretty much is:

Useless
########
name: Useless
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psycho Boost
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
item: Twistedspoon
evs: 88 Def / 240 SpA / 180 Spe
nature: Timid

Priority damage calculations against 0/88 Deo-N:
252+ Lum Ekiller ES: 84.65% - 99.59% (Silk/LO will still OHKO)
252+ Mega Scizor BP: 73.86% - 87.55%

In terms of the "things" +1 SpD can let Deo-N survive (get ready to rofl):
252+ ScarfOgre Ice Beam: 57.68% - 68.05%
252+ ScarfOgre Thunder: 76.76% - 90.46% (eeeeeeeeh I guess if your opponent had a 10% ScarfOgre left when you have like a 20% Palkia + 40% SpecsOgre and you have SR up? I know this is ridiculously situational, but this is Deo-N)
252+ ScarfOgre Ice Beam vs +1 Deo-A: 102.90% - 121.16% (YAAAAAAAY)
252+ Scarf Xern Thunder vs +1 Deo-N: 69.71% - 82.16% (you have a ScarfOgre at 60%ish left?)

Anyway, I know these are all completely situational, but like I said, it's fucking Deo-N, at least it's SOMETHING, even if it's jack shit.

 

[Unowninator]

Why Calm Mind instead of Nasty Plot?

 

[Nayrz]

Hmmm, I've been having a think about Deo-N. Mind you, I don't like it either, but reading past threads (see http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/deoxys-n-revamp-gp-2-2.3470901/), I think I've finally come up with some sort of niche. As mentioned in the gen 5 analysis, as well as from Kebabe, Deo-A can run a crapload of defense and survive Fake Out from MegaKhan just as well. However, I do think that because Deo-N can survive lots of unboosted priority (up to Adamant Lum Ekiller's Extreme Speed), it may be better to run a Calm Mind set while running some sort of boosting item, which Deo-A cannot run since it cannot run both defenses at once. Truth be told, you're still OHKOed by most special Scarfers even at +1 (see Kyogre, Xerneas), although you DO survive weaker attacks so Special Scarfers like Kyogre can't just starting spamming Ice Beam when the rest of your team can't take Ice Beams, for example. It's a ridiculously shitty niche, but at least it has "more" SpD than Deo-A. It still outspeeds MMY, which is good, as well as having access to Psycho Boost. Again, I'm not saying this is anywhere remotely good, but it's "something" better than Deo-A, while still differentiating itself from MMY and standard Mewtwo due to speed.

The set pretty much is:

Useless
########
name: Useless
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psycho Boost
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast
item: Twistedspoon
evs: 88 Def / 240 SpA / 180 Spe
nature: Timid

Priority damage calculations against 0/88 Deo-N:
252+ Lum Ekiller ES: 84.65% - 99.59% (Silk/LO will still OHKO)
252+ Mega Scizor BP: 73.86% - 87.55%

In terms of the "things" +1 SpD can let Deo-N survive (get ready to rofl):
252+ ScarfOgre Ice Beam: 57.68% - 68.05%
252+ ScarfOgre Thunder: 76.76% - 90.46% (eeeeeeeeh I guess if your opponent had a 10% ScarfOgre left when you have like a 20% Palkia + 40% SpecsOgre and you have SR up? I know this is ridiculously situational, but this is Deo-N)
252+ ScarfOgre Ice Beam vs +1 Deo-A: 102.90% - 121.16% (YAAAAAAAY)
252+ Scarf Xern Thunder vs +1 Deo-N: 69.71% - 82.16% (you have a ScarfOgre at 60%ish left?)

Anyway, I know these are all completely situational, but like I said, it's fucking Deo-N, at least it's SOMETHING, even if it's jack shit.

Wouldn't Yveltal just take the idea for a free switch-in and force you out easily? I'm not sure if this set can touch Yveltal at all, but if the rest of QC wants this set in then I can add it in as another set (would need your help with usage tips though) also since this is currently in the GP queue i'm not entirely sure if altering it this late is a possibility, but that's down to you guys.

 

[shrang]

Wouldn't Yveltal just take the idea for a free switch-in and force you out easily? I'm not sure if this set can touch Yveltal at all, but if the rest of QC wants this set in then I can add it in as another set (would need your help with usage tips though) also since this is currently in the GP queue i'm not entirely sure if altering it this late is a possibility, but that's down to you guys.

Shhh shhhh shhh... don't use logic in a thread about Deo-N, you'll start hurting yourself :P

 

[Haruno]

Why the hell not? It's not like deo-n has any other salvageable qualities anyhow. Might as well put in that sexy as fuck cm deo-n set for the lolz. I mean we're already talking about deoxys-n + viable.

 

[Nayrz]

Added the set and stuff. now stop giving me work, this thing is shit
If there are any glaring problems i put in the new set lemme know asap, this is in the GP queue so any changes have to done fast.

 

[Nayrz]

Double posting but it's necessary. Made some needed changes to the analysis to compensate for the new set addition, especially the ordering of C&C and added extra information to C&C to include the Calm Mind sets checks and counters.

 

[aidbail45]

It's GP time!

This is an amateur check.

Removals
Additions
Comments

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Overview
########
When looking at Deoxys, one has to wonder what it could ever possibly be used for that would give it an advantages it has over its other formes. Unfortunately, that is the problem:, (RComma) (AColon) it has no doesn't have many advantages. The small gain in defenses little bulk it has over Deoxys-Attack is still nowhere near enough of a reason to merit its use seriously, especially when it is also sacrificesing power for an uineffective increase in bulk defense boost. However, a small advantage about Deoxys's extra bulk the defense boost is that it can live Mega Kangaskhan's Fake Out, something that Deoxys-Attack can't do. Deoxys does still have very powerful 150 / 150 offenses, and 150 base 150 Speed, so by itself it is not a bad Pokemon. Its downfall is problems are clearly shown when it's compared to its other formes, as it neither not hasving the bulk and Speed that of Deoxys-Speed has, nor the tremendous Attack power that offenses of Deoxys-Attack has. In Generation 5 the Its only semi-viable set it had was a utilizing dual screens set, but thanks to the buff to Defog that now makes it very common on most teams, even this set is now useless thanks to the Defog buff in Generation VI, making it easier to remove screens. This leaves Deoxys is unfortunately left with no effective niche, (AC) at all that can't already be accomplished by Deoxys-Attack, or Deoxys-Speed, which means unfortunately making it is a completely useless Pokemon in the Ubers metagame.

Lead Hazards Setter / Anti Lead
########
name: Useless
move 1: Psycho Boost
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Spikes
move 4: Magic Coat / Taunt / Hidden Power Fire
item: Focus Sash
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
This set is the most salvageable thing that can be done with Deoxys. Psycho Boost is the strongest STAB move that Deoxys can use, and it works very well on this set denting support Arceus formes, other entry hazard leads, or other and Defog users that try to stand in its way. Stealth Rock and Spikes are two great entry hazards that Deoxys can use effectively since its base 150 offenses and Speed can still are threatening enough to force switches, allowing it to get them up without too many problems. The last moveslot is dependent on what you wish to do., (RC) (AP) Magic Coat can anti-lead Deoxys-Speed by bouncing back its Taunt or entry hazards, rendering it effectively useless and forcing it to either switch out or attack Deoxys. Taunt can accomplish a similar feat, and but works better on slower entry hazard setters like Groudon who lack as they do not carry Magic Coat to stop the Taunt. Hidden Power Fire is an option that allows Deoxys to deal heavy damage to entry hazard setters, (AC) rather than keeping their hazards away. It bringings Forretress down to Sturdy and 2HKOings Ferrothorn, while also having a high chance to OHKO physically Defensive Mega Scizor after Stealth Rock damage, which can be a good lure as Bullet Punch from Scizor is unable to cannot OHKO Deoxys.

Set Details
========
Deoxys has to be as fast as possible, so and running 252 Speed EVs with a Timid nature accomplishes this. Timid is the best choice as it does not cause any harm to Deoxys's already pitiful defenses and since no physical attacks are being used, Timid is the best choice. Maximizinge Special Attack to gets the most from Psycho Boost and Hidden Power Fire, and add The rest of the EVs go to HP. Focus Sash means Deoxys is guaranteed to get up at least one layer of entry hazards.

Usage Tips
========
This Deoxys set is rather easy to use. Lead with it and aim to Taunt opposing leads or possible set up sweepers, or get up Stealth Rock first, then possibly Spikes hazards should the opponent allow it offer no resistance. If you think Deoxys is about to go down, Psycho Boost the enemy.

Team Options
========
Firstly, the use of Deoxys is highly discouraged due to its lack of advantages over Deoxys-Attack or and Deoxys-Speed, so if you wish to have a more viable option, choose Deoxys-Attack or Speed. Should you choose to run Deoxys, (AC) however, it doesn't tend to really need support, as it tends to be the one that's giving it. Instead, (AC) opt to have teammates that can benefit from entry hazards to ensure a sweep, such as Mega Blaziken or Extreme Killer Arceus. This Deoxys set suits Hyper Offensive teams very well as an entry hazard setter that can also provide great offensive pressure. Mega Gengar is great to stop the opponent using Defog users to from removinge Deoxys's entry hazards, as it can trap them, Taunt them or just eliminate them. An answer to Yveltal is necessary on teams with Deoxys leads, as it's immune to Psycho Boost, (AC) and takes little damage from Hidden Power Fire, (AC). Yveltal and can also Taunt Deoxys, leavforcing Deoxys with no options but to switch out.

Slightly Less Useless
########
name: Useless
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Psycho Boost
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Fire
item: Mind Plate
evs: 88 Def / 240 SpA / 180 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
While this set does look laughable, it takes advantage of Deoxys's better bulk small defense boost over Deoxys-Attack and puts it into practical use. Thanks to Deoxys's Speed stat, it can effectively get a Calm Mind boost before any most things can touch it, giving the an element of surprise and even letting you it live some powerful special attacks, such as Choice Scarf Kyogre's Ice Beam and Thunder. Psycho Boost from Deoxys after it gets a Calm Mind boost can be terrifyingly powerful, easily OHKOing Groudon, Xerneas, Zekrom, and offensive variants of Palkia. If Stealth Rock is in play, the its potential grows larger. After Stealth Rock damage a +1 Psycho Boost can OHKOing Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Giratina-O and even Extreme Killer Arceus! Shadow Ball is used for coverage, hitting Mewtwo and regular Giratina for super effective damage. Hidden Power Fire can OHKO Pokemon such as Mega Scizor and Ferrothorn, and if with Stealth Rock and one boost is up, Hidden Power Fire can also OHKO Skarmory and Forretress at +1, due to Sturdy being broken.

Set Details
========
The EVs may seem unconventional, but they take advantage of how allow Deoxys is able to live unboosted priority and use it to your advantage. 88 Defense EVs allow Deoxys to live an unboosted Extreme Speed from Adamant natured Extreme Killer Arceus if they are not carrying a damage boosting item and are instead running Lum Berry, while also allowing Deoxys to take hits such as and Mega Scizor's and Mega Lucario's Bullet Punch. 180 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allows Deoxys to outspeed everything up to and including Mega Mewtwo Y. The rest of the EVs are dumped into Special Attack.

Usage Tips
========
Calm Mind when Deoxys is given a free opportunity, such as an opponent setting up entry hazards or boosts, (AC) and then punish them with Psycho Boost. Deoxys can live some weak neutral hits, (AC) so if you think that Deoxys can survive a predicted attack, take the opportunity to Calm Mind there as well. With this set, (AC) Deoxys is very prone to being revenge killedrs as it can't take any strong attacks and is forced out, so be on the lookout for Choice Scarf users such as Zekrom and Genesect. Don't be too greedy with Calm Mind boosts, as Deoxys only needs one boost to be more powerful than Deoxys-Attack. (AP) and After one Calm Mind, Deoxys has all the tools ready it needs to blow a hole in the opposing team.

Team Options
========
Wobbuffett can be a good partner to this set, Encoring support moves and providing a free setup opportunity for Deoxys. Using Wobbuffett can stacks Dark weaknesses, however, which only means that makes an Yveltal check is absolutely necessaryeded, as it provides huge trouble for this Deoxys set. (This) what are you referring to? Wobbuffet? fits well on balanced teams that need a small trump card, as after Deoxys gets a Calm Mind boost, something is more than likely going down on the enemy team. Having a Defog user is can be beneficial as well, as entry hazards can bring Deoxys into the kill range for the priority that it cwould otherwiseriginally survive.

Other Options
########
Generation 5's A dual screens set is still possible, but not worth the effort thanks to because of the ubiquity of Defog. An all-out attacker set is certainly possible, but is completely outclassed by Deoxys-Attack in every way this role. Counter can take advantage of the small fact that Deoxys can live a Bullet Punch from Scizor or Mega Lucario, (RC) and retaliate back, but is a rather gimmicky option that has limited use. On the Calm Mind set, Nasty Plot could be swapped for Calm Mind, turning Deoxys into an extremely powerful nuke, but you Deoxys loses the Special Defense increase that Calm Mind gives, leaving you it vulnerable defensively.

Checks & Counters
########
**Dark-types**: Dark-types such as Yveltal, Darkrai and Dark Arceus-Dark can easily take advantage of Deoxys to set up as they are immune to Psycho Boost. Tyranitar can also bring Deoxys down to its Focus Sash one HP, (AC) and then letting sandstorm damage would finish Deoxys off. Dark-types are also the biggest enemy of the Calm Mind set.

**Defog users**: Defog users such as Giratina-O can effectively deal with Deoxys's hazards set and by takinge out Deoxys with Shadow Sneak before it can get more up with Shadow Sneak, but must beware of the Calm Mind set as it can leave a huge dent in most Defog users.

**Priority users**: Priority users can easily take out Deoxys as it has no room for priority of its own, limiting Deoxys to one layer of hazards before being knocked out or being forced to switch. While the Calm Mind set does live some forms of priority, it cannot avoid being OHKOed from Giratina-O's Shadow Sneak or Yveltal's Sucker Punch.

**Multi-hit moves**: Users of multi-hit moves such as Scolipede (Pin Missile) and Cloyster (Icicle Spear, Rock Blast) can pierce through Deoxys's Focus Sash and leave Deoxys with only one set of hazards up.

**Choice Scarf users**: Possible Choice Scarf users such as Genesect and Xerneas can outspeed Deoxys and limit its hazard laying. They can easily revenge kill the Calm Mind set as well.

**Mega Kangaskhan**: Its ability, With Parental Bond, Mega Kangaskhan can pierce through Focus Sash and OHKO Deoxys with no problem. Deoxys does live Fake Out, however.

**Steel-types**: Steel-types are resistant to Psycho Boost and can check Deoxys if it's not carrying Hidden Power Fire. Aegislash is a notable example, as Shadow Sneak will either KO Deoxys or bring it down to its Focus Sash.

**Magic Coat users**: Anti-leads such as Deoxys-Speed can bounce a Taunt back to Deoxys, or entry hazards to your own side of the field, preventing Deoxys from doing its job.

 

[Unowninator]

Are any of these moves worth considering?

• Counter and/or Mirror Coat (w/ Focus Sash)
• Gravity+Zap Cannon

• Focus Punch+Substitute

• Sunny Day/Rain Dance+Solarbeam/Thunder

• Wonder Room
• Telekinesis
• Cosmic Power
• Power-up Punch
• Amnesia + Iron Defense
• Agility
• Flame Orb + Psycho Shift
• Amnesia
• (Did I bring up Amnesia?)
• Teleport

The 1st few are actually serious.

 

[Magcargo]

Are any of these moves worth considering?

• Counter and/or Mirror Coat (w/ Focus Sash)
• Gravity+Zap Cannon

• Focus Punch+Substitute

• Sunny Day/Rain Dance+Solarbeam/Thunder

• Wonder Room
• Telekinesis
• Cosmic Power
• Power-up Punch
• Amnesia + Iron Defense
• Agility
• Flame Orb + Psycho Shift
• Amnesia
• (Did I bring up Amnesia?)
• Teleport

The 1st few are actually serious.

No. Most of those are far too gimmicky to achieve anything significant.

 

[Fireburn]

Change the name of the CM set to "Slightly Less Useless" just for the sake of differentiation.

 

[Nayrz]

Are any of these moves worth considering?

• Counter and/or Mirror Coat (w/ Focus Sash)
• Gravity+Zap Cannon

• Focus Punch+Substitute

• Sunny Day/Rain Dance+Solarbeam/Thunder

• Wonder Room
• Telekinesis
• Cosmic Power
• Power-up Punch
• Amnesia + Iron Defense
• Agility
• Flame Orb + Psycho Shift
• Amnesia
• (Did I bring up Amnesia?)
• Teleport

The 1st few are actually serious.

I've legitimately seen cosmic power before
Teleport needs its own set imo

Change the name of the CM set to "Slightly Less Useless" just for the sake of differentiation.

Changed to "Still useless"
Don't want the reader getting any ideas do we?

 

[Unowninator]

No. Most of those are far too gimmicky to achieve anything significant.

So is Deoxys, IMO.

BTW what about Focus Blast instead of Hidden Power?

 

[Nayrz]

So is Deoxys, IMO.

BTW what about Focus Blast instead of Hidden Power?

Only thing Focus Blast would be hitting is something like Steelceus or Darkrai, and you probably should switch out on them anyway. HP Fire hits many more things and actually hits.

 

[Unowninator]

Only thing Focus Blast would be hitting is something like Steelceus or Darkrai, and you probably should switch out on them anyway. HP Fire hits many more things and actually hits.

I was thinking Tyranitar, actually. Or is it no longer good in ubers?