Rock is a candidate. But wide distribution of sturdy and non SR weakness is a +1 for it. Also the SpD boost in Weather
I honestly don't see bug as a bad defensive typing
Ground and Fighting resistances
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Other Defensive Fire-typing
- Thread starter mrglass
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I honestly don't see bug as a bad defensive typing
Ground and Fighting resistances
Grass is a great defensive typing though. It has 7 weaknesses, but that doesn't mean they're all common, and it still has very useful resistances to Water and Ground. Bug is much the same because of the Ground and Fighting resists.
fire typing isn't that bad of a defensive typing, it's just the fact that it's weak to stealth rock and as a result a lot of hits fire-types need to take are harder to because you're coming in with 25% less health. fire most notably resists bug, ice, and steel, which are actually pretty good resists because if you look at the grand scheme of OU pokemon, a large majority use one of those moves. also fire types aren't very noteworthy for their bulk.
grass is a fantastic defensive typing.
grass is a fantastic defensive typing.
Same physical defense tier: Pinsir and Milotic, Zapdos, Empoleon, Dusclops, and pre-Intimidate Salamence and Gyarados.
All of those pokemon can run useful defensive sets in UU or OU except for Pinsir. Hmm, I wonder why? Perhaps two resistances isn't enough to make up for everything else.
Rock is the most obvious one. It shares those nasty Water and Ground weaknesses; it loses the Rock weakness but adds weaknesses to Grass, Fighting, and Steel. It also doesn't have a great set of resistances; all it really has are Fire, Normal, and Flying, and Fire resists itself anyway. Even now, resisting Poison is never going to be helpful.
I'm also tempted to say Psychic. All it resists are Fighting and itself, and resisting itself isn't a huge deal for it. Meanwhile, it's weak to Bug, Ghost, and Dark. Both Ghost and Dark have a lot of tricks, most problematically Pursuit, and they're both getting much more prominent now that Steel doesn't resist them anymore. This is particularly problematic for Psychic/Steel-types, which put the type to its best defensive use.
the discussion is stats aside here. I didn't pull up Steelix with it's Base defense and compare it to a typhlosion now did I
Uh... I agree with you? That's why I picked pokemon that have EXACTLY THE SAME PHYSICAL BULK. Because then you're left with comparing the typing.
It also has weaknesses to Ice and Fire. The two best Sp. Attacking types. And then on top of that 3 other weaknesses. But I said arguably for a reason. Grass does get some useful resistances, but then so does Fire. I don't get why people seem to mostly think of physical types when they look at defensive viability. I'm mostly seeing this discussion about Rock, Ground, and Fighting. But everyone seems to be ignoring Fire, Ice, and Electric.
I shouldn't have singled out Bug. I think it's a horrible type in general, but that's more due to it's poor offensive capabilities.
Oh yeah, I forgot about Psychic. Even though I love the typing, I believe it's one of the things that got Cresselia down to BL2. Dark is a pretty meh defensive typing as well.
Oh I apologize
Also obviously Ice, most of which are down at the very bottom on this list.
Grass doesn't have 7 weaknesses lol
Anyway Fire is actually a really solid defensive typing. The things holding it back are it's very common weaknesses, including to Stealth Rock, and simply lack of good defensive Fire Types.
Something that's been neglected to be mentioned is that Steel has all of Fire's resist, bar to Fire itself, and more, so there's a lot of competition there.
5 weaknesses and 7 resistances, sorry.
That is a good point though, that Steel really outclasses Fire defensively.
The problem has always been and always will be stealth rock
Wow, that's a really good point I never considered. Maybe that's why Fire's not used defensively. If you are going to use something weak to common attacks defensively, why use Fire when you could use Steel.
Stealth Rock is definitely still an issue for these guys, but a lot of Pokemon put up with Stealth Rock and still function in the meta (see Volcarona). Even so, I think only Fire types with a complimentary secondary typing will have a commonplace use. Heatran has been mentioned, who happens to have a pretty unique 4x resistance to Fairy. Also I agree with the comeback of Rotom-H, who once was the most preferred forme of Rotom back when it was first introduced in Platinum. I used Rotom-W a lot last generation as a defensive pivot, so I might try out Rotom-H if I find I need fire type resistances. But probably just gonna use Heatran.
Charizard X is going to get used to high heaven regardless of actual merit, even though it has to switch in while it's still a Fire/Flying type. But once you strategically squeeze in that Mega Evolution, you've got a Fire/Dragon type which was previously exclusive typing to Reshiram. For a dragon, Fire is a pretty neat addition offensively and defensively. It is important to note that Charizard X has an awesome defense stat, and could probably tank a few resisted Grass, Steel, and Bug hits.
Charizard X is going to get used to high heaven regardless of actual merit, even though it has to switch in while it's still a Fire/Flying type. But once you strategically squeeze in that Mega Evolution, you've got a Fire/Dragon type which was previously exclusive typing to Reshiram. For a dragon, Fire is a pretty neat addition offensively and defensively. It is important to note that Charizard X has an awesome defense stat, and could probably tank a few resisted Grass, Steel, and Bug hits.
nah fire is a decent defensive typing. i'd kill for a good defensive fire-type in the lower tiers, but the fact of the matter is pretty much every fire-type's stats are geared offensively, and the few that are defensively oriented lack recovery and utility moves.
that said there are a few good defensive fires around. heatran / arcanine (pure fire-type too!) are pretty fucking awesome in their respective tiers with a defensive set. moltres can also be a pretty nice defensive fire, but like the other fire mons, because of how its stats are geared, it would much rather be offensive.
just because you dont see many good defensive fire-types doesn't mean the type is bad for defensive purposes.
edit: also don't forget about the beast that is ho-oh!
Or both, Thanks to the handy-dandy Heatran.
Rotom-H was Ghost in Platinum though, so it could function as a spinblocker and wasn't rock-weak.
The thing about Grass is, it resists Water and Ground. Fire and Ice are arguably the most important types for SE coverage, but Water and Ground are two of the most important STABs after Dragon. When they hit, they hit hard, so having something resisting or immune to them is key. Grass not only does that, but it hits the users back super-effectively; it's the only type that simultaneously resists and does SE damage to either.
Already knew that. Thanks. I was just saying that if one were to need a good defensive Fire type for the resistances it offers (especially for the possible rise of Steel attacks and Fairy attacks), Rotom-H would be a good choice.
I sure as hell wouldn't use Donphan as a Rapid Spinner if it didn't have base 120 Attack and EQ+Ice Shard. Those reasons are just as strong as access to Rapid Spin.
Additionally, it's really unfair to say that "Fire is a bad typing!" using a Fire-type Rapid Spinner as your argument. A Stealth Rock-weak Rapid Spinner, really? Of course no Fire-type is going to excel at that!
So it seems more like type that fills a big defensive niche, than one that's generally great defensively like Steel or Water. It's good to deal with Water and Ground types, but not that great otherwise.
4 resistances actually, lol
I meant to say, resists to Grass attacks.
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