Pokémon Decidueye

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I'm really sorry if this has already been said but what do people think about making Decidueye a mixed sweeper. Do you guys think it would be viable? Maybe something like....

Decidueye @ Decidium Z
Ability: Overgrow / Long Reach
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpAtt / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Energy Ball
- Spirit Shackle
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

I know I'm losing bulk for speed. What do you guys think?
 
I'm really sorry if this has already been said but what do people think about making Decidueye a mixed sweeper. Do you guys think it would be viable? Maybe something like....

Decidueye @ Decidium Z
Ability: Overgrow / Long Reach
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpAtt / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Energy Ball
- Spirit Shackle
- Brave Bird
- U-turn

I know I'm losing bulk for speed. What do you guys think?
It doesn't make sense to me to make it a mixed sweeper when you can drop Energy Ball for Leaf Blade and go full 252 ATK. Grass isn't the best offensive coverage imo so dropping 128 in SpA for just a grass move seems like a waste. I'd also drop Decidium Z for LO or something along those lines.
 
Most of the people here are in agreement that he's not OU.

Why does everyone feel the need to remind us lol
cause this thread is the longest one in the sub-area for no reason at all? (not counting non-pokémon topics) yeah, i get that he is a fan favorite, but if it's in an already agreement that he will not be OU, then why the hell has such long discussion? wait until lower tiers get established for actual meaningful discussion. for god sake, this has more discussion than other threads that deserve more discussion like tapu lele. i'm really worried this pokémon will face the same fate as typhlosion in tiers
 
cause this thread is the longest one in the sub-area for no reason at all? (not counting non-pokémon topics) yeah, i get that he is a fan favorite, but if it's in an already agreement that he will not be OU, then why the hell has such long discussion? wait until lower tiers get established for actual meaningful discussion. for god sake, this has more discussion than other threads that deserve more discussion like tapu lele. i'm really worried this pokémon will face the same fate as typhlosion in tiers
i refuse, deci can go a def set with roost/defog/spirit shack/uturn and have a niche in OU, you cant exclude him without OU settling down in the few weeks .
 
cause this thread is the longest one in the sub-area for no reason at all? (not counting non-pokémon topics) yeah, i get that he is a fan favorite, but if it's in an already agreement that he will not be OU, then why the hell has such long discussion? wait until lower tiers get established for actual meaningful discussion. for god sake, this has more discussion than other threads that deserve more discussion like tapu lele. i'm really worried this pokémon will face the same fate as typhlosion in tiers
I agree that it has little place in the OU metagame but I disagree about that being a reason not to talk about it...obviously the pokemon has many fans so it is understandable that there would be plenty of discussion. Plus its a pokemon with a lot of potential sets as opposed to lets say Primarina which while it may be a better overall pokemon is still very one dimensional. People are gonna talk about it and that's fine, they want it to work and there is no rule that only OU mons can be talked about at length on here.
 
It doesn't make sense to me to make it a mixed sweeper when you can drop Energy Ball for Leaf Blade and go full 252 ATK. Grass isn't the best offensive coverage imo so dropping 128 in SpA for just a grass move seems like a waste. I'd also drop Decidium Z for LO or something along those lines.
That's true, but his special attack is almost on par to his attack that it seems like such a waste to not take advantage of that somehow.
 
Unless you desperately want to use a hidden power there is no reason to go special, overall coverage on that side is much worse nothing really after Energy Ball and Shadow Ball...and you have physical equivalents of those. Youre also not gonna have to worry about physical contact either way. Decidueye isnt too strong in the first place there isnt any need to weaken it by trying to run a mix set in my opinion.
 
For the love of Arceus.

If you don't think Decidueye is worthy of this much discussion then just don't post here. By coming here complaining about how much more discussion he's getting, you're just making the thread even LONGER.

Sometimes, when a respectable and intelligible member of a web forum makes a strong point or shares insight, lower level posters come in and just echo what said poster says over and over, without adding anything new and informative. This is basically what happened to bludz's post. I see this happen to message boards all the time smashboards cough cough, and it's irritating.
 
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And what if Decidueye has little place in OU? As far as I remember, there are no subforums for lower tiers yet, so this is the only place where we can talk about its viability.

Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing a thread about Bibarel lol.

Going back to Decidueye itself... sigh, if it isn't the Pokemon with the worst 4MSS ever, then what is?
 
The thing about the beta UU matches is that it also might be a different environment than OU. Decidueye's niche for OU teams is based partly on him being a good answer to things that are more prevalent in OU, like Ground Types, Sand, bulky/passive waters, and breaking hazard stacking stall teams. The fact that he performs poorly in a lower metagame (that hasn't even developed itself either) does not 100% indicate he will not have a worthwhile niche in OU.

I also think people are thinking about Spirit Shackle wrong. Spirit Shackle's offering isn't the fact that Decidueye can trap things he checks, but he can trap his own checks and make them very easy to counterplay since Decidueye has to leave the field before the opponent can choose to leave with anything besides their own pivot move. For a somewhat predictable/common example, the opponent can't bring in Heatran to answer Decidueye because if he goes for Spirit Shackle, Heatran's stuck in until Decidueye leaves, leaving his friend Dugtrio to watch the house. Similar case with, say, Skarmory or Celesteela and going to Magnezone/Alola Golem. Even barring other trappers, the momentum of forcing your opponent to wait until you bring in a check gives a huge amount of momentum for something like a set up sweeper (Z-Rain Dance Manaphy in front of Heatran, Sub attackers in front of something like Amoongus), and the main defensive mon Decidueye can't trap, Chansey, won't come in on him anyway since he can blow away Hazards, is immune to Seismic Toss, and can either SubPass, SubToxic, or just plain Toxic her. SubPass is deadly if passed to something like Mega Gyarados to set up (imagine giving it to a Disguised Mimikyu, 2 turns without damage to reach +4 unhindered is nuts), and Toxic means Chansey can't even stay in to PP Stall Decidueye out, again forcing her to leave and letting you take momemntum with a Double switch, U-Turn, Baton Pass, or more Spirit Shackle mindgames.

This thing will have very specific offerings, but also looks the type where if you need what it offers, it can pay off VERY well with role compression and/or its particular niche.
 
Unless you desperately want to use a hidden power there is no reason to go special, overall coverage on that side is much worse nothing really after Energy Ball and Shadow Ball...and you have physical equivalents of those. Youre also not gonna have to worry about physical contact either way. Decidueye isnt too strong in the first place there isnt any need to weaken it by trying to run a mix set in my opinion.
Fair points, guess back to the drawing board for my singles team, lol.
 
cause this thread is the longest one in the sub-area for no reason at all? (not counting non-pokémon topics) yeah, i get that he is a fan favorite, but if it's in an already agreement that he will not be OU, then why the hell has such long discussion? wait until lower tiers get established for actual meaningful discussion. for god sake, this has more discussion than other threads that deserve more discussion like tapu lele. i'm really worried this pokémon will face the same fate as typhlosion in tiers
At this point, many of the posts are discussion of why this thread has so many posts.
 
Decidueye's role at this point, to me, seems to be a wallbreaker or stallbreaker in an unconventional sense, using tactical advantage like an archer does, over brute force like something such as Mega Heracross would specialize in. It has several tools to take on common walls or defensive Pokemon such as Toxapex, Chansey, Slowbro, Hippowdon, Ferrothorn, Amoonguss etc. People seem to be using it as an offensive sweeper, where I believe it's been said before, is not using the bird to full potential.

Whether it goes SubPass or SD, it can break down defensive walls with some amount of ease. This Pokemon can sustain itself in a long fight if need be, or pass it on to another teammate that can use it's boosts or Substitute.

Any of the aforementioned walls I listed are gonna get punished hard for trying to switch in to Decidieye, and in the very least it brings up the idea for a possible switch on the opponent with Spirit Shackle mind games. Also it may force other walls like Skarmory and Hippowdon to Whirlwind or Roar Decidueye out instead of using something else.

Like real archers, Decidueye doesn't like to take hits a lot, however it can still fend for itself if it needs to get down to nitty-gritty. Just my two cents, but use Decidueye however you wanna.
 
has anyone tried weakness policy on this mon? i think some has underestimated the special bulk of this mon and it can be a interesting set to bring in decidueye against special attacks with weakness policy. Compiled with sucker punch, it can be pretty good. Or he can boost further and/or proceed to baton pass it to a sweeper team mate.

I watched this replay,
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-492446963

this mon can take a non stab ice beam which deals about 1/3 damage to him and he could also take a eruption from Typhlosion that deals like some 1/4 damage. thats quite impressive
 
I'm really interested in how to run an Adamant Decidueye.

I bred a shiny adamant Rowlet and I don't want it to go to waste, even though I don't play competitive, I check sets here to get the most out of my pokemon for single player and when playing with my friends.
 
has anyone tried weakness policy on this mon? i think some has underestimated the special bulk of this mon and it can be a interesting set to bring in decidueye against special attacks with weakness policy. Compiled with sucker punch, it can be pretty good. Or he can boost further and/or proceed to baton pass it to a sweeper team mate.

I watched this replay,
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-492446963

this mon can take a non stab ice beam which deals about 1/3 damage to him and he could also take a eruption from Typhlosion that deals like some 1/4 damage. thats quite impressive
The Ice Beam was pretty impressive, given it came from Wishiwashi enormous special attack. The Eruption was less impressive, because the Typhlosion had really low HP.

Also, in order to keep the discussion focused, could the OP be edited to include a disclaimer saying "Yes, we know this thing would be OU, but it has the potential to fill so many niches that it warrants all this discussion."

And to add to the discussion, are there any roles that haven't been touched on yet? This thing can spinblock, Defog, play countless mind games with Spirit Shackle and Baton Turn, lure Dark and Normal types with Low Sweep, soak up Electric, Ground, and special hits, and sometimes act as a bulky attacker, or even a Curse trapper.
 
I've played 3 matches with Red Card-Decidueye with Spirit Shackle, and some of the results are hilarious. It's gimmicky, but it's kinda fun.

Decidueye @ Red Card
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 44 HP / 212 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Brave Bird
- Spirit Shackle
- U-turn

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-492584046
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-492603261
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-492574187

Also, he's makes a good Choice Scarfer. Even with an Adamant nature and 239 speed, Choice scarf boosts it to 358. Since no one expects it to out-speed a damn thing, so take your opponents by surprise for the meanwhile.

Decidueye @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Return
- Spirit Shackle
- U-turn

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-489882495
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-490752460
 
Decidueye's role at this point, to me, seems to be a wallbreaker or stallbreaker in an unconventional sense, using tactical advantage like an archer does, over brute force like something such as Mega Heracross would specialize in.
I think you are correct in saying that Decidueye is not meant to be a brute force monster. However, i don't think he makes that great of a utility mon either. Whenever i use his defensive defog sets or stallbreaker sets, I always feel disappointed because they either take away your offensive momentum for little reward (defensive defog) or they still get beat by whatever you're trying to eliminate if they run the right coverage or support move (stallbreaker sets). The issue really stems back to stat spread: he's not bulky enough to outlast most switchins to him, even with roost (which also saps too much momentum) and he's not scary enough to force most walls to respect him. I almost gave up on him after playing this way, but in the last few matches, i think I found a really good niche for him in the OU metagame . . .

Decidueye @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overgrow (Long Reach)
EVs: 32HP / 252 Atk / 224 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Low Sweep
- Spirit Shackle
- U-turn

I believe he works best as a specially defensive pivot that can actually threaten switchins. He works especially well with bulkier teams that run an Intimidate user (i.e. gyarados, landorus-t, etc.). The idea is to sponge hits for your team from offensive electric types, water types, fighting types, and weak coverage moves. For this reason, he is EV'd to be as specially bulky as possible (though i am sure someone can come up with a better, more efficient spread). Your most common switch-ins are usually going to be steel, flying, grass, and dark types. Low kick is very important to this set, not because of coverage, but because of the utility it provides while dealing damage. Slowing down an enemy before switching out to a check or counter can be a godsend for certain teams that focus more on bulky offense and do not want to take many hits before retaliating. It can also force your opponent to play mindgames with you, since your priority will now outspeed most mons.
 

S. Court

[Takes hits in Spanish]
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As if remembering Decidueye's 4MSS were not enough... Decidueye can learn Haze. How useful is Haze on Decidueye?
 
With Decidueye, it has decent stats. It is well rounded allowing you to pick either attack or defense. Here is the problem: it's speed is subpar and it's ideal movesets are a bit predictable. I'm not saying that Spirit Shackle, U-turn, Leaf Blade, and Synthesis are bad moves by any means, it's just that it is easy to counter. While Brave Bird can be used or a surprise special set, I feel as though Decidueye will find it's way into UU or BL.
 
As if remembering Decidueye's 4MSS were not enough... Decidueye can learn Haze. How useful is Haze on Decidueye?
I would probably run Decidueye with Toxipex w/ Haze. Not worth it to run two mons so that frees up Decidueye to dig into the rest of it's extensive movepool. They both cover each others weaknesses fairly well too.
 
I would probably run Decidueye with Toxipex w/ Haze. Not worth it to run two mons so that frees up Decidueye to dig into the rest of it's extensive movepool. They both cover each others weaknesses fairly well too.
I do this too, btw. They do cover each other nicely.
 
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