Cradily Discussion

[Nemo]

I just heard that Sandstorm now boosts the Special Def of Rock Types...what sort of impact will this have on Cradily?

 

[Misty]

Well, Cradily would have to be used in OU to benefit from that, and imo Cradily really doesn't accomplish much in that environment.

 

[Surgo]

A good impact for sure, seeing as how Cradily's purpose is special walling. A damn good special wall it could make too, check out what has been called the scariest threats of DP against it:

CS Salamence Meteor Swarm:
525 attack (max+) vs. 516 defense (max+), 210 power, times 1.000000: 153 - 181
CS Starmie Ice Beam:
492 attack (max+, which you won't see) vs. 516 defense (max+), 95 power, times 2.000000: 132 - 156
Scheme'd Azelf Psychic:
766 attack (max+, which you won't see) vs. 516 defense (max+), 135 power, times 1.000000: 144 - 170
Scheme'd Porygon-Z Ice Beam:
810 attack (max+) vs. 516 defense (max+), 95 power, times 2.000000: 215 - 254

I'm not sure what the best EV spread is for Cradily, and whether you want to drop special defense a bit for HP for better hit-taking or just nearly max both. Regardless, it won't be taking on Porygon-Z but really...what can?

While it does get special options now, I wouldn't touch them. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to take on Raikou and other beasts that still use Calm Mind. I'd probably run a similar boring set to the Advance standard:

Cradily @Leftovers
Earthquake
Recover
Stealth Rock
Stone Edge / Rock Slide

Stone Edge obviously gives it more power but my experiences with Cradily in advance had it running out of PP even with -Rock Slide-, so I can foresee that being a serious issue. You can always run Energy Ball or Grass Knot over Earthquake or Stone Edge/Rock Slide if you want to have the potential to hit those things "hard". In any case, always run a physical move for things like Raikou if this is your sole special wall.

You won't be hitting anything hard anyway, it's not like Cradily is a strong attacker. That's what I really don't like about it...besides setting up Stealth Rock, it can't -do- anything.

 

[phatJacob07]

I was hoping to try something like Tickle for pHazing, but it's illegal as far as I can tell :(

 

[Pyr0]

I was hoping to try something like Tickle for pHazing, but it's illegal as far as I can tell :(

illegal with what other move?

 

[pajama]

I think it might just work in double battles teamed with slaking. It can gastro acid his effect away as far as i know and that would be pretty good i guess and better then skill swap in my eyes. Although i have no idea what the rest of his moveset etc should be :S

 

[Nagoragama]

What about this?

Cradily @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm
~Amnesia
~Energy Ball
~Stealth Rock/Ancient Power
~Recover

EVs: HP 252, SpD 164, SpA 94

Not so sure about the EVs. As far as Stealth Rock vs. Ancient Power, I'm not sure either. I like to try to take advantage of both STABs, but as the 60 BP Ancient Power is its only Special Rock move, this might not be viable.

 

[Lou Cypher]

I've been dabbling over Cradily myself and I've noticed Bullet Seed. I COULD see it work after a swords dance to mess up sub users to some extent, if not for that low base power that move has. And Ninjask just says 'sup to Bullet Seed anyway...

 

[Footnote]

We already know that Worry Seed fails when used on Slaking. Testing should be done, because I wouldn't be surprised if Gastro Acid worked the same way.

 

[Oarfish]

Alittle off topic but if you think this doesn't work well in OU, what are other acceptable Special walls other than Blissey?

CLEFABLE.
Yeah his stats kind of suck, but magic guard is a really 1337 ability. Plus he can learn all the same things as blissey + a few others.
I am so glad there is someone besides me who doesn't want to use blissey as a special wall and wants alternatives.

 

[Easton]

I still want to use Cradily though, he's my favorite pokemon. He could the form of an efficent bulky sweeper:

Cradily @Leftovers
Trait: Suction Cups
Nature: Sassy
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 104 SDef
~Recover
~Swords Dance
~Stone Edge
~Energy Ball / Earthquake / Mirror Coat

Use this when all other threats are off the field. Mirror Coat gives Azelf / Alakazam a taste of their own medicine, and in general go bulky sweep.

Everyone is tired of using Blissey, of course. There are alternatives:

Snorlax / Regice / Spiritomb / Dusknoir / Bronzong / Magnezone

 

[Forsety]

Everyone is tired of using Blissey, of course. There are alternatives:

Snorlax / Regice / Spiritomb / Dusknoir / Bronzong / Magnezone

Spiritomb is not a special wall, it lacks the resistances, HP or the raw stats to do so. Its defenses are probably on par with Bronzong but with horrible HP and a lack of as many resistances.

Snorlax gets Focus Blast raped and I believe I've said this before but a Snorlax is a tank not a wall.

 

[Easton]

Forsety, tell me how Spiritomb is not a special wall. You can make a puesdo-wall by throwing Calm Mind / Will-o-Wisp / Dark Pulse / Pain Split. And Focus Blast is a waste of moveslot on pokemon like Gengar

So in conclusion, it is not designed to be one, but you can make one out of it by using it correctly. Blissey doesn't really have any resistances, and everything hits it for neutral.

The definition of wall is a rather loose one IMO

 

[Justice]

Standard Cradily in pbo is Stone -Edge +Stealth Rock / Toxic + Energy ball + Recover.

To bad it cant Leech seed.

 

[Forsety]

The definition of wall is a rather loose one IMO

If anything, you seem to have mistaken a tank for your 'psuedo wall'.

A true wall needs some way of completely or partially shutting down an opponents offense either through typing, raw stats or even a balance of stats with moves while setting up something else so its not simply a punching bag.

If anything it'd need Hypnosis at the very least to even qualify.

Its been agreed enough after alot of discussion a wall this gen needs resistances and immunities unless it has extreme like defenses/HP.

Everything hits far far too hard this gen that even something that looks very much like a good wall like Spiritomb fails, mainly due to its poor HP and the fact its neutral to too many common types.

Even a simple Draco Meteor from a non-maxed Specsmence wipes out 70% health average of a full special defenses Spiritomb. If it doesn't run full defenses so it can actually be a threat offensively than it risks being OHKO'd or close to it.

There is no way I'm gonna be able to switch into that without leaving myself a sitting duck. Especially with your set.

Spiritomb however holds out better on the physical side with Will O'Wisp, Hypnosis, fighting/normal immunity and its defenses...

Blissey doesn't really have any resistances, and everything hits it for neutral.

And we completely neglect that it has nearly 2-2.5x more HP than everything in the game and 6th-7th highest sp.def disregarding 00bers and too many ways of healing itself and others.