Coverage Abuse: A 4th Gen RMT

[DarthChocoboz]

INTRO
So Over the course of a year, which is how long i've been playing i've alwaysed had trouble with Starmie thanks to its great coverage and having access to a WATER GRASS PSYCHIC ICE and ELECTRIC move. So i decided to make a team around a LO Starmie set for 5th Gen and try and beat the meta game with psuedo stall team. Whne i realised you couldn't PokeShift items i decided to make this a 4th gen team.

Team Building

Well the vocal point of the team Starmie

Next i need a lead so i usually go with things that are offensive, but this time i want rocks too so i went for Heatran

Now i wanted something to set up hazards and Skarmory does that well.

so here i have my physical wall and since its psuedo stall i need wish and i love Vaporeon, it also gives me a water resist.

Next i need a scarf something to U-Turn force switches, cause entry hazard damage and add more damage so i went for scarf Rachi.

So then I decided to put a bulky Mence in so it could definatly sweep after Starmie.

So that was the team, BUT!!! when i found out about the PokéShift thing i had to change Salamence and i decided to add more Power and more residual damage so i opted for a CB T-Tar

Soon Jirachi started to seem redundunt as i was walled by Skarm and when they saw i was going to Starmie every time whirlwind would happen and i would simply end up with more spikes and SR damage on my guys so i changed it to a Fire Blast Flygon

SO Heres a look at the team in full again

Heatran**[in general]
Fire/Steel
Trait: Flash fire
Nature: Naive
EVs:172 HP 84 SPEED 252 SP ATK
Item: Shuca Berry
Overheat
Hidden Power Grass
Stealth Rock
Explosion

Standard Lead Tran as it's offensive AND can set up rocks at the same time, Shuca can save my life all the time, every time. Against most standard leads I hit them then set up rocks and the rest of the moves are standard although this guy is my main counter to scizor and explosion can kill bliss and big annoying things!​

Against Other Leads

= Fire blast to break sash and go to Starmie

= Same except go to Flygon and U-Turn

= Fire Blast to see if its Levitate or Heatproof, scout for the 2HKO and the move Or switch to Skarm

= Fire blast then set up rocks

= Set up rocks and if i'm still around i blow up.

= Earth Power twice for the kill and set up rocks later as they usually don't Surf.

=Earth Power, predicting the switch then set up rocks, if they're still there Fire Blast.

= Fire blast, If its a 2HKO go for it again Otherwise set up rocks if they earthquake first turn go to Starmie for turn 2.

= Set up rocks and go to Starmie.

= Set up rocks and go right to Starmie

= Switch to Starmie and then go to T-Tar to set up sand and break sash then go back to Starmie, get rocks up later.

= Fire blast it as they usually don't switch then set p rocks on the switch.

=Skarmory, incase it has CC.

= The reason i am considering Chople, i usually forget about rocks and explode.

=Fire Blast it then if faster earth power it if not set up rocks.

=Earth Power it for 2HKO.

=Skarmory....

=Take sleep and go to T-TAr and trap with pursuit

=Set up rocks on the switch.

=Set up SR then go to Skarm to Phaze.

=Switch to Vaporeon, bait the T-bolt and go to Flygon

= Set up SR then go to Skarm and set up on it

=Rocks then Fire Blast him so i see what he goes into with U-Turn

=Fire Blast Then go to Skarm.

Flygon***[in general]
Dragon/Ground
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Naive
EVs: 252 ATK 4 DEF 252 SPEED
Item: Choice Scarf
Earthquake
Outrage
Thunder Punch
U-Turn

Max speed Scarf Flygon is definatly one of my favorite pokemon in this metagame as it can allow you switch advantage, it can beat scarf Tran and scarf Rachi as well as hitting Skarm with Fire Blast. All moves seem standard to me so no explaining needed! I soak up electric real nice too

Skarmory
Steel/Flying
Trait: Sturdy
Nature: Impish
EVs 196 HP 252 DEF 60 SP DEF
Item: Leftovers
Roost
Brave Bird
Spikes
Whirlwind

Oh every time i saw Skarmory i Crapped my pants because it is very annoying to a team with nothing for it and Flygon can kill the things that counter Skarm and Flygon soakes up electric.196 HP fro max Lefties number and the moves are pretty standard. Used more as a spiker i.e if i have 2 layers and they have no really threatning physical sweepers i let skarm die as its mostly for the hazards.

Vaporeon
Water
Trait: Water Absorb
Nature: Calm
EVs: 188 HP 68 DEF 252 SP DEF
Item: Leftovers
Surf
Wish
Protect
Roar*

Good old specialy defensive Vaporeon, this was one of the very first pokemon i ever used competitivly and i love it being able to Wish Protect Toxic things to death and hit things with super powerful Surfs. I can also pass off wish and flygon can sometimes want a wish after taking a couple of Fire Blasts from Heatran and Starmie can want it too for the same thing while T-Tar is so tankish and well able to take a hit he can definatly make good use of Wish. 188 is a leftovers number.

Tyranitar
Rock/Dark
Trait: Sand Stream
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 180 HP 252 ATK 76 SPEED
Item: Choice Band
Pursuit
Crunch
Aqua Tail
Stone Edge

So since i lost mence i had nothing to hit Bliss that hard with and i can trap it with T-Tar and adding sand to the team helps with the residual damage. I Picked Aqua Tail because i thought it would be lolsy and then i came up against a Shuca Tran and it saved me so many times after that so i decided to keep it.

Rotom-W
Electric/Ghost
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
IVs: 29 HP
EVs 4 DEF 252 SP ATK 252 SPEED
Item: Life Orb
Hydro Pump
Thunderbolt
Pain Split
Substitute


Thats the team please Rate it and give me suggestions for changes any leads i might have left out or anything at all a nit-pick or anything!!!Thanks Guys.

* Suggested by Faladran. It works great BTW.
** Suggested by BKC, Subject to testing.
*** Suggested by BKC, subject to testing.
**** Suggested by BKC, Subject to testing.
​

 

[Faladran]

Well this is one of the few not terrible teams left in 4th gen, so congrats on that. You'll definitely need a spinblocker though - I would just add SubSplit Gengar over Starmie. Although Starmie was the focus of the team, you won't get too far without a spinblocker. Gengar is actually pretty similar late-game, with great Ghost / Fighting coverage and speed. It also forms an effective offensive core with CBTar, as the two have good synergy together.

Also, use Roar > Toxic on Vaporeon. Having an additional phazer is really helpful for abusing entry hazards, and this will prevent you from being set up on by DDSub / Chesto Rest Kingdra.

edit: Don't use Chople on Heatran just for Machamp. The confusion hax will still get you a lot of the time, so that's pretty inconsistent. If anything, you could try a LO + Max SAtk set for Heatran, with Stealth Rock / Overheat / HP Grass / Explosion. This will let you OHKO Machamp and Swampert leads with Overheat and HP Grass, respectively. The loss of Shuca makes you more vulnerable to opposing Heatran, but honestly you have Heatran really well-covered with Vaporeon / Tyranitar. Shaymin also becomes more problematic, but Skarmory's bulky enough to phaze it out and you have Flygon's U-turn to make it more manageable.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

Thanks for Rating Faladran i was going to ask you to do it, so thank you.

Sub split gengar was used in the very start of this team when i was using F/W/G core with like lead roserade torment tran and starmie but i removed when i decided to play it in 5th gen. Personally i've alwaysed used the mix split Gengar with focus punch sub split and shadow ball so a moveset would be wanted.
T-Tar more or less serves for the purpose of ghosts and flygon it usually kills one thing and dents another but spin hasn't been much of a problem so far since i can keep the tempo high and stop stuff from spinning unless they just bring it right in on skarm.

I'll try Roar on vaporeon [part of the reason i chose it over bliss] but i alwaysed used toxic so i went for it.

EDIT CHople i think removes the confusion or something, i think i read that somewhere and LO heatran maybe i'll test it

 

[DarthChocoboz]

bump

 

[Tomahawk]

Your EVs on Skarmory are inefficient. A 252 HP / 196 Def takes physical hits better than a 196 HP / 252 Def Skarmory, and special hits too obviously.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

196 HP Means i get maximam HP Recovery with leftovers in stead of wasting 56 EVS and getting no extra leftovers.

 

[Fantom0]

Instead of having dual STAB, why not run Recover on Starmie? It helps keep Starmie alive vs. an entire team, and I fail to see why you'd need two STABs on Starmie when BoltBeam provides nearly unresisted coverage.

Also, having 252 HP is not inefficient, it does give Skarmory more bulk on both sides of the spectrum. You shouldn't be all that bothered with Leftovers numbers.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

Its more of a quirk but all my pokes are usually lefties or life orb numbers and Starmie is men to be a sweeper not bulky, and psychic is the greater option then grass knot

 

[Fantom0]

True, Zapdos might take out one or two pokes on this team. On the other hand, Starmie outspeeds it and, while it might not OHKO, it can certainly hurt it with Ice Beam. Flygon can then revenge it.

@ Darth Chocoboz, even bulky Starmie, especially those with Life Orb, can benefit from Recover.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

Zapdos decimates your team if Tyranitar is down

Flygon, Starmie and Tyranitar beat this while vaporeon after SR Can take a LO Modest Thunderbolt so i really doubt it hurts me at all except maybe hitting ONE of my guys for some damage

I know it can benefit from recover but its better just to have psychic, to kill fightings when i don't want to miss hydro pump.

 

[zapdos=god]

On vaporeon change the evs to the standard 188hp/252def/68spdef. It is better as it takes hits from both sides of the attacking spectrum

 

[Zebstrika]

Bigass Electric and Fighting weaknesses.

I always liked Banded Flygon more than Scarfed Flygon... check your type synergy, and that's it for now.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

On vaporeon change the evs to the standard 188hp/252def/68spdef. It is better as it takes hits from both sides of the attacking spectrum

I don't want a physical wall i want a special one, and i can't take zapdos' hits.

Electric weakness no i have it covered with t-tar and Flygon while i can U-Turn into Starmie and get some life orb hits off. Fighting..... some i can usually beat it with prediction or my starmie sweep

 

[Zebstrika]

Tyranitar doesn't resist Electric.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

But it can take their hits easily

 

[BKC]

Hey, you asked me to rate so here I am. This is a very solid team already, so good job on that; I think I can help make it a bit better though.

Hide

Part of the reason Heatran+Skarm is such a great entry hazard duo is because Tran lures in bulky waters like Vaporeon that Skarm sets up on, but you can't do this because you're running a physically-oriented spread. I recommend switching to the standard SDef set so you can set up on Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Celebi, as well as giving yourself a decent check to LO Shaymin.

Lead Machamp also gives you trouble; a simple fix is to run Modest LO Heatran with Overheat/Stealth Rock/HP Grass/Explosion, using a spread of 172 HP/84 Spe/252 SpA (speed outruns min spe Rotom-A), so you can get an OHKO on LeadChamp and Swampert while still setting up your rocks.

Now, you need a spinblocker if you're running multiple layers of hazards. I recommend bulky Scarf Rotom - it takes LO Hydro Pump from Starmie in case they predict the switch into an anti-spinner, and can outrun it for the KO. In case Forretress predicts an anti-spin switch, you can live a Payback and pivot into Tran. I think you should include it over Starmie - I know you centered this team around it, but there is really nowhere else you can include this guy. He works just as well, if not better than Starmie at late-game cleaning. The set is:

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Spe / 40 SAtk
Trait: Levitate
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Trick

216 Spe outruns +1 Jolly Gyara, max HP gives you the bulk I mentioned earlier, and 40 SAtk packs a little more punch. You can shift them into defense if you're paranoid about dying to Scarftar Pursuit however, since the hazards make up for Rotom's lack of power.

Now that you've got a Scarf Rotom, Scarf Flygon becomes redundant. Changing it to a mixed set really helps you out against stall, as Draco Meteor hurts everything that switches in with Spikes support. It also gives you a more solid check to LO Shaymin, being able to outspeed it despite being in the same base 100 speed group thanks to Hidden Power Fire's necessary 30 Speed IV. Set is:

Flygon @ Life Orb
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Trait: Levitate
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Roost

That's all I got for you. Good team, hope I helped.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

Hey, you asked me to rate so here I am. This is a very solid team already, so good job on that; I think I can help make it a bit better though.

Hide

Part of the reason Heatran+Skarm is such a great entry hazard duo is because Tran lures in bulky waters like Vaporeon that Skarm sets up on, but you can't do this because you're running a physically-oriented spread. I recommend switching to the standard SDef set so you can set up on Pokemon such as Vaporeon and Celebi, as well as giving yourself a decent check to LO Shaymin.

Lead Machamp also gives you trouble; a simple fix is to run Modest LO Heatran with Overheat/Stealth Rock/HP Grass/Explosion, using a spread of 172 HP/84 Spe/252 SpA (speed outruns min spe Rotom-A), so you can get an OHKO on LeadChamp and Swampert while still setting up your rocks.

Now, you need a spinblocker if you're running multiple layers of hazards. I recommend bulky Scarf Rotom - it takes LO Hydro Pump from Starmie in case they predict the switch into an anti-spinner, and can outrun it for the KO. In case Forretress predicts an anti-spin switch, you can live a Payback and pivot into Tran. I think you should include it over Starmie - I know you centered this team around it, but there is really nowhere else you can include this guy. He works just as well, if not better than Starmie at late-game cleaning. The set is:

Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 216 Spe / 40 SAtk
Trait: Levitate
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Trick

216 Spe outruns +1 Jolly Gyara, max HP gives you the bulk I mentioned earlier, and 40 SAtk packs a little more punch. You can shift them into defense if you're paranoid about dying to Scarftar Pursuit however, since the hazards make up for Rotom's lack of power.

Now that you've got a Scarf Rotom, Scarf Flygon becomes redundant. Changing it to a mixed set really helps you out against stall, as Draco Meteor hurts everything that switches in with Spikes support. It also gives you a more solid check to LO Shaymin, being able to outspeed it despite being in the same base 100 speed group thanks to Hidden Power Fire's necessary 30 Speed IV. Set is:

Flygon @ Life Orb
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SDef)
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spe / 4 Atk
Trait: Levitate
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Roost

That's all I got for you. Good team, hope I helped.

I only realised today how much of a problem shaymin was for this team.
Thanks for the rate the tran and skarm sound good although that leaves me slightly more open to physical attackers.
Rotom i will test out, i've used it before under your instructions and it was good but i didn't like how little of a punch it packed.
Flygon looks good to me, i always liked mix flygon, although min was always scarfed but i will test it.
Thanks for the rate.

*Roar has been changed permanantly, great idea faladran

EDIT: Thinking of what you and faladran have said about removing starmie, is there a Sub/Split set for Rotom-W?

 

[BKC]

is there a Sub/Split set for Rotom-W?

Offensive SubSplit (which I think is the better set for your team, seeing as it really abuses the Spikes):

Rotom-W @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
I'd also recommend dropping the HP IV to 29 to gain a good Life Orb number+a bit more health stolen from your opponent when you PS.

If you feel like a more defensively oriented set:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Speed outruns max speed Jolly Gyarados, and the defense investment gives you a good Gyara check.

Btw I'd recommend ThunderPunch > Fire Blast on Flygon as well, if Rotom is weakened from something like a Scarftar Pursuit you lack any way of beating Taunt DD Gyarados. It does hit Skarm but they can take one, Spike, and then switch out to something like Bliss, forcing you to switch and racking up more hazard damage, you'd be better off just switching to Heatran. Even SDef Forry can take a Fire Blast, that's how weak Flygon is.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

Offensive SubSplit (which I think is the better set for your team, seeing as it really abuses the Spikes):

Rotom-W @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
I'd also recommend dropping the HP IV to 29 to gain a good Life Orb number+a bit more health stolen from your opponent when you PS.

If you feel like a more defensively oriented set:
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Speed outruns max speed Jolly Gyarados, and the defense investment gives you a good Gyara check.

Btw I'd recommend ThunderPunch > Fire Blast on Flygon as well, if Rotom is weakened from something like a Scarftar Pursuit you lack any way of beating Taunt DD Gyarados. It does hit Skarm but they can take one, Spike, and then switch out to something like Bliss, forcing you to switch and racking up more hazard damage, you'd be better off just switching to Heatran. Even SDef Forry can take a Fire Blast, that's how weak Flygon is.

I'll probably go with the offensive Rotom as it looks similar to Gengar which i've used before so i have the hang of him.

Are you talking about my flygon? Or your mixed one?

 

[BKC]

Are you talking about my flygon? Or your mixed one?

If you go with SubSplit Rotom you should go with ScarfGon since you lack a revenge killer, I meant you should use MixGon if you chose to use Scarf Rotom, so ThunderPunch > Fire Blast on Flygon if you're going with SubSplit Rotom/ScarfGon.

 

[DarthChocoboz]

If you go with SubSplit Rotom you should go with ScarfGon since you lack a revenge killer, I meant you should use MixGon if you chose to use Scarf Rotom, so ThunderPunch > Fire Blast on Flygon if you're going with SubSplit Rotom/ScarfGon.

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up.