Choiced Items

[Electrolyte]

But with setting up comes vulnerability to taunt and encore and perish song. I'm not saying that all pokemon should just ditch their set up sets and go for choice, I'm saying COULD all offensive pokemon USE choice items effectively. You're right, many of them depend on setting up to sweep- so pokemon like Cloyster or Volcorona are out of the picture.

If you think about it, it's really hard to counter choiced pokemon- many people resort to sacrificing and revenge killing later. However, some choiced users, such as Scizor or Mamoswine or CB Techniloom, can revenge revengers, thus ending the revenging of the opponent, opening up sweeps for other choiced pokemon. Walls won't work as well because now many of the pokemon in your team are stronger than the walls usually deal with, in fact 1.5x stronger, which means many just-good-enough walls will no longer be useful. Stall goes down too, because with choiced scarfers to outspeed yet still deal massive amounts of damage, already rare stall pokemon such as stall gliscor or toxic blissey will also go down. Don't forget about Trick, as it completely shuts down most walls that choiced teams have trouble facing. As for hazards, there is Specd Starmie to spin (though I don't recommend using it just for that purpose) and Specd Espeon to reflect (both sets are very rare however).

 

[Woodchuck]

When a Pokemon opts for a Choice item, it's sacrificing its versatility for either increased power or increased speed. Except in select situations, those Pokemon turn from sweepers into hit-and-run attackers, basically getting off one attack and then being forced out when the opponent can respond to the move you are being locked into.

Having a Choice Band or Choice Specs has the benefit of allowing the Pokemon in question to be much more devastating right off the bat, not requiring set up to hit the opponent's team with powerful attacks. However, after its first turn of attacking, the Pokemon doesn't benefit from having a Choice item nearly as much due to its obvious 'predictability'.

As for Choice Scarf, it can be used with Pokemon that already hit hard but are lacking in speed. However, after the first turn, a Pokemon with a Choice Scarf is generally even easier to take advantage of than a Pokemon with a Choice Band or Choice Specs, as its attacks aren't even boosted.

And using Choice Items with Rapid Spin or Reflect is never a good thing to do, as you're pretty much giving your opponent a free turn to do whatever they want. Rapid Spin sets with Starmie in earlier generations were meant to Trick away their Choice Scarf/Band and then spin.

Walls can work perfectly well against Choice users because, unlike the threat of Mixape, you only need to wall one move. This is made even easier when you have Protect on the likes of Gliscor or Blissey, effectively rendering the Choice user helpless to your switch-in.

tl;dr Choice Items are awesome for wearing down the opponent's team by punching holes, but you need to predict the switch-ins correctly to be effective. Unless the team has been worn down for a cleanup sweep, Choice users are also almost never going to score multiple KOes in a row.

 

[Itchni]

Specs starmie is like having the best of both worlds of choice items. Along with great coverage and access to trick make it a very very solid pokemon. rain also boosts its stab hydro pump or surf to crazy levels. Starmie is easily one of the best specs users in the current metagame.

 

[MCG93]

In my experience, it is beneficial if teams that run choice users carry Pokemon that fit these criteria:
- Hazard setter (Priority should be given to SR over all others and to spikes over T spikes)
- Status spreader (Para and Burn, preferably)
- Tanks or a nice defensive core that can absorb attacks/status on the switch
- PHazer (to handle boosted Pokemon that your choice users can't handle)
- Stall Breaker that can switch moves and switch in repeatedly (LO/Expert Belt mons, bulky set-up mons, etc.)

While choice users have the immediate power to punch holes in the opponent's Pokemon, their weaknesses and drawbacks should be covered by the rest of the team. As such, although it is not impossible to make a team completely centralized on choice users, it is generally not a good idea to make a team consisting of choice users only.

 

[jaredz99]

As always, Heracross is an amazing choice scarfer, and as always, forgotten by everyone who plays 5th gen OU. Scarf with Megahorn, Close Combat, Stone Edge, and Pursuit/Night Slash has enough power to OHKO most offensive pokemon, scares bulky psychics that can normally counter fighting types, and outruns most key threats.

 

[A Fhaol Bhig]

Moxie or Guts?

 

[Avatar Korra]

From personal experience I find Scarfed Darmanitan to be fantastic. Sheer Force Max Attack Flare Blitz pretty much destroys everything that's not super bulky and resistant (even if Jolly Natured).

U-Turn is the icing on the cake, we all know how good this move is for scarfers.

With Superpower as the third coverage move, you can have pretty much anything else for the fourth move (I like Fire Punch).

There are some negatives. Stealth Rock is obvious, and great HP is ruined by awful Defense.


How I play him is either bring him after one of my guys dies, or switch into an obvious fire move. Something on their team is guaranteed to lose a ton of HP.

 

[Crona]

Moxie or Guts?

Moxie allows Heracross to possibly clean up a team or pull a sweep, much like Salamence, but Guts also allows a switch-in to something such as Toxic or Will-O-Wisp, which allows Heracross to hit not only 50% faster but 50% more powerful, putting a lot of pain into its hits.

It's more a matter of preference, as each can hit hard through its own method.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

While I generally hate having to use Choice Scarf, I actually like using Choice Scarf with Moxie; you don't have to worry about being locked in a non-boosted attack since you are going to get boosts the more times you kill. The only problem is that either you have to use an attack that nothing is immune and has a great neutral coverage, or eliminate a certain threat before starting to have fun.

That said, Salamence is the best abuser of Choice Scarf; with a Dragon-type STAB, it can kill anything, even things that resist Dragon, and you only get stronger and stronger wich each kill. Few things can stop you; Shedinja, anything with Ice Shard, a burn, paralysis or a scarfer with higher base speed than Salamence, or a bulky Steel-type if Salamence hasn't suficient Moxie boosts - if you don't have any of these things, well...

I think that Choice Scarf Heracross is better abused with Moxie, since you have to wait that they burn/poison you while you are vulnerable to crippling status such as paralysis and sleep...

 

[Boondocker]

Ive gotten pretty high up on the ladder in dppt with a team of 2 scarfers. Multiple scarfers wrecks offensive teams because they dont expect it. Scarf terrakoin and scarf rotom work well together (one physical, one special, check different threats). Throw in a couple wall breakers and your half way home.

 

[UltiMario]

Honestly Haxorus should be in Scarfers rather than Banders.

Jolly Scarf Haxy is a ridiculous cleaner, end of story. I hate seeing Band Haxy, because in the end it's just a bunch of Overkill. Scarf Haxy lets you outpace huge amounts of the metagame while still flattening your opponents. I've been running it on my new weatherless HO, and while it doesn't work out perfect every time..... it certainly would be a better slot than Band Haxy. Superpower especially helps Haxy since the base power boost as compared to Brick break lets it take out Ferrothorn with Scarf now.

Band Haxy still works, but really only against stall now-a-days. Which, of course, happens to be dying for the time being.

In the current state of the metagame though, Haxy is a Scarfer first, then a Bander, IMO.

 

[Electrolyte]

Honestly Haxorus should be in Scarfers rather than Banders.

Jolly Scarf Haxy is a ridiculous cleaner, end of story. I hate seeing Band Haxy, because in the end it's just a bunch of Overkill. Scarf Haxy lets you outpace huge amounts of the metagame while still flattening your opponents. I've been running it on my new weatherless HO, and while it doesn't work out perfect every time..... it certainly would be a better slot than Band Haxy. Superpower especially helps Haxy since the base power boost as compared to Brick break lets it take out Ferrothorn with Scarf now.

Band Haxy still works, but really only against stall now-a-days. Which, of course, happens to be dying for the time being.

In the current state of the metagame though, Haxy is a Scarfer first, then a Bander, IMO.

Stall is NOT disappearing- in fact, it is becoming a far more effective playstyle. Oh, your precious Volt-turn core is threatening my team? I'll toxic you with Blissey and protect stall you to death. Don't like hazards? Too bad your team is too "offensive" to have a spinner, or even a taunter. Trying to set up on me? Say hi to clear smog amoonguss.

Stall is certainly very powerful these days, even though it is commonly overlooked. In fact, stall really walls choice users if you play it right; many choice users depend on Volt turn, and all of your hard earned prediction is shut down by protect. That's why super powerful pokemon like Specs Keldeo or Banded Haxorus are so vital- they rip through stall pokemon without too much difficulty. However any experienced stall player can easily see through your 'tricks' and stall all of your pokemon to death. So don't underestimate it.

 

[UltiMario]

Stall is always weaker for a while when massive metagame shifts are happening.

I'm not saying Stall has no chance to return in the future, that's why I said "for the time being."

As of the current, offense is significantly stronger than stall. I've been running an HO Team with NP Thundy and SD Terrakion as my main Stall splitters, and man does it hurt.

Basically, you're saying bad volt turn teams lose to stall. Which is entirely fucking true. The solution to this problem is to... honestly not run Volt Turn teams. I've got all of Scizor on my team for turning. Actually running real offense gives stall problems. You even chose a terrible example, Blissey is one of the walls that's starting to fall out of relevance. She couldn't Toxic Stall jack shit in this metagame.

It'd be really cool if more Jirachi/Latias cores came up to slow down new Offense, and all that jazz. But honestly right now the metagame is offensive, and Scarf Haxy TEARS through that. He should at least be acknowledged in the scarfers section.

 

[gbagcn]

I hate being outsped which is why I like choice scarf so much. I have run 3 of them on a team and still got a rank of 300 on smogons pokemon online server. If you are worried about being set up on just switch to another choice scarf user as they set up and then kill that pokemon on your next turn.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

I have been using a team with four Choice users, and while I found this team to be effective, I don't like using too many Choice users. It's really better to use 2 or less Choice items; you don't give your opponent free turns and doesn't suffer from entry hazard damage.

 

[min min]

You can run 3 Choice users, but some of them better be able to trick away the Scarf just in case something crops up that needs move diversity. Latios is one of those who can benefit with and without a Choice item depending on the opposing team; being able to switch to HP Fire in time is pretty sweet.