Item Choice Band and Choice Specs (Viable Users, and Current Role in the Metagame)

[rachet67]

Role in the Metagame: Though the least used choice item, you can't help but give this a spot on my band thread. Thanks Ninja Charizard. Most of its users would rather use a scarf, but specs may be the better choice. Choice Specs are usually used for offense, but serve a small niche at killing off a physical attacker - the move trick. This move is generously given to users that already have nice special attack. This makes a nice win-win situation.

Notable users (Bold stands out more):
Kingdra
Politoed
Alakazam
Rotom-W (Trick)
Jolteon
Latios
Starmie
Gengar
Charizard
Porygon-Z
Magnezone
Vaporeon

First of all the analysis of Choice Specs role in the meta is mostly false. Many, if not most, good users of choice specs this generation prefer choice specs over choice scarf. There are only a few good scarf users in the meta, and they are almost all physical, or try to trick them away. They also play entirely different roles. While choice scarf is usually aimed at revenge killing (and occaisionally sweeping though there are very few scarf users that can achieve that in this bulky meta), choice specs are aimed a wall breaking.

Next, your notable user section is terrible.

Kingdra-Completely outclassed by Keldeo as a specs user, and has much better sets to use. Its speed is a little to low to come in safety to the top offensive threats, and its SpA to underwhelming to justify choice specs.

Alakazam-Should almost never be used without a focus sash, its specs set is completely outclassed by Latios, who has better bulk, resists (since choice specs users must switch in and out), and better offensive stab.

Jolteon- Terrible Stab, awful resists, no bulk, generally really bad in OU.

Charizard- Charizard should never be used in OU without a mega stone. EVER. Its completely outclassed by Charizard-Y and almost all other common specs users in OU.

Vaporeon is outclassed by Keldeo as a specs user.

Porygon-Z- No resists, bad STAB, average speed and bulk, generally a poor specs user in OU as there are better specs users available.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

First of all the analysis of Choice Specs role in the meta is completely false. Many, if not most, good users of choice specs this generation prefer choice specs over choice scarf. There are only a few good scarf users in the meta, and they are almost all physical, or try to trick them away. They also play entirely different roles. While choice scarf is usually aimed at revenge killing (and occaisionally sweeping though there are very few scarf users that can achieve that in this bulky meta), choice specs are aimed a wall breaking.

Next, your notable user section is terrible.

Kingdra-Completely outclassed by Keldeo as a specs user, and has much better sets to use. Its speed is a little to low to come in safety to the top offensive threats, and its SpA to underwhelming to justify a choice specs.

Alakazam-Should almost never be used without a focus sash, its specs set is completely outclassed by Latios, who has better bulk, resists (since choice specs users must switch in and out), and better offensive stab.

Jolteon- Terrible Stab, awful resists, no bulk, generally really bad in OU.

Charizard- Charizard should never be used in OU without a mega stone. EVER. Its completely outclassed by Charizard-Y and almost all other common specs users in OU.

Vaporeon is outclassed by Keldeo as a specs user.

Porygon-Z- No resists, bad STAB, average speed and bulk, generally a poor specs user in OU as there are better specs users available.

Thanks for feedback.

 

[Aragorn the King]

IDK, Scrappy? Or Fire Blast, Focus Blast, even? I mean a Boomburst with no immunities whatever no big deal its not like Cresselia even gets 2HKOd.

Anyway, Hydreigon is definitely usable. Vaporeon not really. Also "Alakazam should never be used without a mega stone" is where I stopped reading.

Haha, sorry. I meant to write sash.

 

[dkkc19]

What about Hydreigon Choice Specs set? Max speed and Spatk with Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Earth Power and Fire-Blast

 

[aVocado]

What about Hydreigon Choice Specs set? Max speed and Spatk with Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Earth Power and Fire-Blast

I used it a long time ago and it was really good. Modest with Specs hurts a lot and Dark Pulse is really spammable. The only issue is that every fairy-type shits on it so hard.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

What about Hydreigon Choice Specs set? Max speed and Spatk with Draco Meteor, Dark Pulse, Earth Power and Fire-Blast

I think I made one along with Porygon-Z last night but didn't post them. I could post them here for approval/voting.

EDIT: Fuck it. I'm doing it anyways:

Hydreigon
Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse

This set could go mixed with superpower, but mixing sets is a whole different thread away. Anyways, this set hits HARD. Fire Blast, Earth Power, Draco Meteor, and Dark Pulse all provide neutral coverage together, and are terrifyingly strong for a choice specs pokemon such as hydreigon. Fire Blast can cover Ice types, which may be a pain for hydreigon. Earth power hits poison and rock types, who could hurt other parts of the team. Draco Meteor is STAB, and Dark Pulse is also STAB.


Are Calcs needed?

 

[Dr Ciel]

I used it a long time ago and it was really good. Modest with Specs hurts a lot and Dark Pulse is really spammable. The only issue is that every fairy-type shits on it so hard.

This can definitely work, as Hydreigon can make use of Flash Cannon, which hits Fairies hard & can 2HKO them on the switch, especially the likes of Clefable, Sylveon, Togekiss, Whimsicott, & a few other Fairies I know I'm mis

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

This can definitely work, as Hydreigon can make use of Flash Cannon, which hits Fairies hard & can 2HKO them on the switch, especially the likes of Clefable, Sylveon, Togekiss, Whimsicott, & a few other Fairies I know I'm missing.

Flash Cannon is a great coverage move, but hydreigon suffers from 4 move syndrome. I can slash it against earth power though.

 

[aVocado]

Flash Cannon is a great coverage move, but hydreigon suffers from 4 move syndrome. I can slash it against earth power though.

Agree. Modest should be used also, there's not much you'll be outspeeding with a Timid nature. Kyu-B usually doesn't run a beneficial nature unless it's Scarf or Band maybe.

Assuming Modest: Earth Power OHKOs Heatran, but isn't a cool move to be locked into, still good enough reason to use it though. Focus Blast OHKOs 252 HP Ttar in Sand (and also hits Heatran but doesn't OHKO), Fire Blast for steels such as Ferro, Scizor and Skarmory, U-turn can somewhat be used to lure fairies and gain momentum, but isn't preferred. Finally, Flash Cannon 2HKOs Fairies on the switch.

 

[RotomPoison]

Agree. Modest should be used also, there's not much you'll be outspeeding with a Timid nature. Kyu-B usually doesn't run a beneficial nature unless it's Scarf or Band maybe.

Assuming Modest: Earth Power OHKOs Heatran, but isn't a cool move to be locked into, still good enough reason to use it though. Focus Blast OHKOs 252 HP Ttar in Sand (and also hits Heatran but doesn't OHKO), Fire Blast for steels such as Ferro, Scizor and Skarmory, U-turn can somewhat be used to lure fairies and gain momentum, but isn't preferred. Finally, Flash Cannon 2HKOs Fairies on the switch.

Since when? Azumarill never loses. "2HKOs Fairies" is not a reason to use Flash cannon, besides the fact it doesn't... even Iron Tail uninvested does more to Sylveon/Togekiss, Hydreigon has no buisness trying to beat these Pokemon anyway. I would honestly rather Head Smash a Togekiss (lol no not really) and leave Sylveon to teammates. Please don't do the whole "Hawlucha needs Poison Jab because it hits Fairies even though STAB Acrobatics does more" for Hydreigon...

 

[aVocado]

Since when? Azumarill never loses. "2HKOs Fairies" is not a reason to use Flash cannon, besides the fact it doesn't... even Iron Tail uninvested does more to Sylveon/Togekiss, Hydreigon has no buisness trying to beat these Pokemon anyway. I would honestly rather Head Smash a Togekiss (lol no not really) and leave Sylveon to teammates. Please don't do the whole "Hawlucha needs Poison Jab because it hits Fairies even though STAB Acrobatics does more" for Hydreigon...

Since ever?

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 224-264 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 216-256 (77.6 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 182-216 (48.6 - 57.7%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 306-360 (77.6 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It only misses the 2HKO on 252 HP Azumarill, which is neutral. And with SR there is a 78.5% that it'll 2HKO:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 167-197 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I dunno what you're talking about. Specs Hydreigon clearly 2HKOs all fairies relevant in the OU metagame. I never said it's a good move to have, I just said that it's there if you want it. Hydreigon lures fairies and thats a fact, 2HKOing said Fairies is a decent thing to have. Hawlucha isn't even relevant because it can't afford to run Poison Jab since it needs SD/Sky Attack/Acro/HJK, and STAB moves for Hydreigon clearly don't do more against fairies.

 

[Hegemoth]

I definitely agree with that. Hydreigon lures 3 kinds of things: fairies,special tanks like tyranitar and heatran, as well as pink blobs. Regardless of how good the 2hko is, you must be aware that opponent might not stay in on second flash cannon (if they have a good resist and know the specs damage). I personally personally prefer Life Orb with Roost if someone asked.

 

[RotomPoison]

I like how those calcs leave off SpDef EVs. Try harder.

Also the Hawlucha thing was an EXAMPLE from when it was UU. It's pointless coverage people think is worth it for Fairies. And no surprise you agree with it.

 

[Hegemoth]

Sylveon definitely needs defensive spread, else it is sitting duck like Florges (Life orb mamo wrecs this), Mega Gardevoir rarely ever invests in HP, (it switches in without Mega Form of course). Togekiss was already maxed, and if Azumarill loses any of its evs in attack, it will do pathetic damage. The calcs were representative. Or U run a 252 252+ azumarill with Sap Sipper?

 

[aVocado]

I like how those calcs leave off SpDef EVs. Try harder.

Dude, go learn the metagame, seriously.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Flash Cannon is rather situational on Hydreigon, but it has a reasonable niche. I only listed it because of suggestion, but I think that it actually is a viable move, being able to get rid of clefable (if used correctly) and slurpluff.

252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Slurpuff: 322-380 (105.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The slurpuff calcs are not too impressive, but a specially defensive clefable is pretty impressive if 2HKO'd. Slap a modest nature on it and it's a clean 2hko. This can be used correctly, because in the situation of an obvious draco meteor, you can make the right move and 2hko clefable.

Dude, go learn the metagame, seriously.

+1 Arikado, you're hilarious.

 

[RotomPoison]

> Slurpuff
> OU

Dude, go learn the metagame, seriously.

No thanks, already have. I've been playing for years but how about I just pretend I know nothing because some random kid thinks he's better then me.

Flash Cannon, if he even had space for it, would POSSIBLY 2HKO a few Pokemon. This is fine, but 2HKO means nothing when they can just fucking switch.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

> Slurpuff
> OU



No thanks, already have. I've been playing for years but how about I just pretend I know nothing because some random kid thinks he's better then me.

Flash Cannon, if he even had space for it, would POSSIBLY 2HKO a few Pokemon. This is fine, but 2HKO means nothing when they can just fucking switch.

Sorry, two people on flash cannon and two against it. We need a tiebreaker :]

I'm with flash cannon, but I don't count myself as a voter.

 

[RotomPoison]

Sorry, two people on flash cannon and two against it. We need a tiebreaker :]

I'm with flash cannon, but I don't count myself as a voter.

This isn't a vote. I already told you what happens when using Flash Cannon, but fine:

Flash Cannon, if he even had space for it, would POSSIBLY 2HKO a few Pokemon. This is fine, but 2HKO means nothing when they can just fucking switch.

 

[Aragorn the King]

As per the analysis, Flash Cannon is a decent move on Specs Hydreigon, allowing it to hit Fairies on the switch. However, since it has to be used on the switch to be effective, I'm not too sure about it. It'd be fine as an OO, but Uturn, Focus Blast, and Earth Power are all typically better move choices.

 

[RotomPoison]

Hydreigon thing:

Set from the OP:

Hydreigon
Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power/Flash Cannon
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse

What set should be:

Hydreigon
Item: Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Speed, 4 Def
- Fire Blast
- U-turn / Focus Blast / Earth Power
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse

I don't get peoples obsession with wasting power for a +Speed nature when it's clearly not worth it.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Honestly, I'm just going with the flow right now, and seconding pretty much everyone's points.

dbzmariogeno I changed the OP, but kept Flash Cannon since some people are with it :]

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

Specs Kingdra should only ever be used on dedicated Rain teams.. Atleast mention that.

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

Specs Kingdra should only ever be used on dedicated Rain teams.. Atleast mention that.

I'll mention it :]

 

[aVocado]

I agree with Modest, this is the set I used:

Hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Nature: Modest
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Speed / 4 Def
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power / Focus Blast

4th move is necessary to OHKO two important 'mons: Heatran and Tyranitar, respectively. U-turn and Flash Cannon are both decent options to have and they both work against fairies (and the aforementioned heatran and ttar) for gaining momentum.

It's mainly for spamming Dark Pulse and nuking things with DM, but it can also lure some Pokemon that it can beat, so why not do it?