Bye Bye Bliss (RMT)

[Hyra]

I feel inspired. So eat your heart out and watch me make a team with both Agnomu and Raikou.

Agnomu @ Leftovers
Hasty Nature *EV's TBD, at least 340 SPD*
-Explosion
-Psychic
-Flamethrower
-HP Fight
Yes, I am going to lead with Agnomu. He draws out Special walls like nothing else and will boom in their faces. No Scheme because he is meant to scare Special walls into dieing.


Manmuu @ Adherence Scarf
Adamant Nature (4 HP, 252 ATK, 252 SPD)
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Ice Fang/Ice Pebble/Icicle Spear
-Double Attack
ASOwnage. Kills special walls easily and can easily deal with Dragons. Need help on choosing the Ice move. Ice Pebble shouldn't be needed as not much will outspeed ASManmuu. Icicle Spear looks nifty, but is only 50 base power max. Could I get more damage out of Blizzard or Ice Fang?


Lucario @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature *EV's TBD, at least 270 SPD*
-Substitute
-In-Fight
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
A nice TTar counter. In-Fight will always OHKO it. The moveset has nice type coverage. Only Claydol and Dookatun resist Fight+Rock and Crunch hits both of them nicely.

Raikou @ Leftovers
Timid Nature *EV's TBD*
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
Ownage. Will rape once Swampert/Special Wall is gone. Also is a semi-reliable Special Wall.


Glion @ Leftovers
Impish Nature *EVs TBD*
-Aerial Ace
-Feather Rest
-Earthquake
-Somersault/Ice Fang/Stealth Rock
Perfect Heracross Counter. Not sure what to do for the last move. Somersault is awesome and allows ASManmuu Revenge. Ice Fang makes it impossible for Gablais to switch in. Stealth Rock is just nice support.


Slowbro @ Leftovers
Bold Nature (252 HP, 136 Def, 120 SpA)
~ Ice Beam
~ Slack Off
~ Surf
~ Hidden Power Electric
Slowbro now officially OHKOs Gablias and pretends to be a Gyarados counter. I almost went with Thunder Wave but Taunt is just too scary for words. By Mekkah.

Okay, I have no real Special Wall. Who cares? Only enemy Agnomu/Raikou will sweep and they can only come in on Slowbro and Glion (not HPGrass Kou).

Go kill my post that took 11 hours to write. (I wasn't writing it the entire time)

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

Agunomuu and Raikou(GASP!) lol good team. nothing to fix really here.

 

[Dunk]

If you want to put AS on Manmuu, you might want to have an Adamant. Even if you DO lose to 130s, the only one that can really *DO* much damage to you is Aerodactyl. I'm pretty sure Manmuu can survive an HP Grass from Jolteon and OHKO it back with EQ anyways.

I kinda see you having troubles with Electivire, especially if it switches in on a Thunderbolt

 

[latinoheat]

I don't really see how you can stop a gyarados.Also i would go hp fight on Agnomu because houndoom will give this team problems otherwise.

 

[Deck Knight]

CBTar gives your team a lot of problems. Lucario can switch into it of course, but it has no way of damaging until it gets down to lower HP or uses Swords Dance. It also can't do much to Skarmory since it can get WW'd out. A single Stealth Rock or Spikes hit messes up the HP for Lucario.

Therefore go, for HP Fite on Agunomu. Crescelia may wall Psychic and HP Fite, but it also can't do much of anything to Raikou or Lucario. And you can always BOOM on it.

 

[Hyra]

Okay....

Agnomu will have HP Fight. It counters TTar royally and also hurts Houndoom. I wasn't sure about exploding on Crescelia because of Lugia-esqe defenses.

I actually think I will go with an Adamant AScarf Manmuu. It would just help so much. It would help with Gyarados and mess stuff up in general.

Gyarados doesn't pose much of a threat. It would need Taunt, Waterfall, and Earthquake to actually hurt. Skarm still walls it and if it is more defensive ASManmuu outspeeds it and either wins with Stone Edge or severally weakens it. Also, the Waterfall/Earthquake/Ice Fang variations can't do much to Milotic. Raikou will probably be EV'd to outspeed most Gyara after a DD at about 340. Defensive Gyarados will want at least 334 Speed after a DD, but will need the extra defense to deal with CBCross and Gablais.

 

[Jumpman16]

I am going to keep posting these numbers until you guys get it =/


Adamant, 319 Attack Gyarados's Dragon Danced Waterfall on a 334HP/416Def (max/max) Skarmory: 30-36%

Impish, 177 Attack Skarmory using Drill Peck on a 384HP/236Def (near-max/about half) Gyarados: 17-20%

When you consider you Skarmory's not getting lefties recovery, or any HP recovery at all if and when they Taunt you on the switch-in, and will likely DD again on your switch to whatever, you can stop discounting that it is trouble for your team! I honestly can't wait for people to switch Skarmory into my Gyarados in DP if no one's going to read my posts lol.

Also 227 speed Gyarados reaches 454 after two DDes just so you know, while your Manmuu only gets to 427 speed with its Adherence Scarf and is obviously OHKOed by Waterfall, so you pretty much have to switch Manmuu/Raikou into Gyara at first dight and hope it doesn't Waterfall/Earthquake respectively =/ "Also":

Bold, 253 Special Attack (68EVs) Milotic's Ice Beam on a 384HP/236SpD (near-max/min): 19-23%

I wouldn't be so bold as to switch Gyarados into Milotic unless I knew it was Recovering or (currently) Resting, but if you stay in you are done because of Taunt and if you switch into it you are still done because of Taunt. You will have to Ice Beam the whole way, since:

Adamant, 319 Attack Gyarados's Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 384HP/275Def (near-max/near-max) Milotic: 33-38%

and because your Marvel Scale will never have a chance to activate because your Rest attempts will be Taunted.

This is a somewhat solid team otherwise but please for your sake don't tell yourself Gyarados isn't a threat!

 

[Hyra]

Okay, I'll acknowledge that I have a hard time with Gyarados. But there is not much to do about it. I'm willing to make changes, but I don't see much I could stop Gyarados with. Regice comes to mind, but he requires Wish support or Stalking.

P.s. Wii post.

 

[Phuquoph]

HP Fighting on Azelf isn't that reliable for countering Tyranitar. It's not a guaranteed OHKO even with minimal HP. You could try Sub/Somersault/Explosion/special attack. Affords you some protection against Pursuit and Somersault does some pretty good damage to Tyranitar and Weavile.

 

[Mekkah]

Put Rock Slide on your Skarmory. 21% minimum, 23% average and 25% max damage, assuming the numbers Jumpman used (177 Attack Skarmory, 384/236 HP/Def Gyarados). Get 188 Attack and you're looking at 25% average damage, more often than not a 4HKO on Gyarados in Sand Stream, and that's when Gyarados hasn't eaten Stealth Rock yet. If you want to do 25% minimum damage you'll need 207 Attack which is a little overboard imo. Why doesn't Skarmory get Stone Edge? ):

You could also put Thief on Skarmory to snag Gyarados' Leftovers...this alone won't take it down of course unless you can stall it for a long, long time AND you have Sand Stream in play, but it helps a little. With Thief's small damage and aforementioned Rock Slide you can 4HKO Skarmory always, but that takes up half your moveset.

There's also Air Cutter which might CH at the right time. If you're in for a lol factor just attach Scope Lens, you can bluff Beautiful Skin (thereby discouraging Jibacoil, though I doubt this will work) and CH even more often.

Just throwing out random ideas here to counter the all the Gyara-weak posts.

 

[cookie]

BLuffing beautiful skin would probably work for a while, but then the opponent can switch Jiba in onto Skarmory with no fear anyway, when it gets screwed.

 

[Hyra]

I'm thinking of replacing Milotic with a Stone Edge Gyarados. It should counter other Gyarados w/o Stone Edge. Of course this is a risky bet.

Slowbro @ Leftovers
- Own Tempo
~ Ice Beam
~ Slack Off
~ Surf
~ Hidden Power Electric

Bold - 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpA

Slowbro now officially OHKOs Gablias and pretends to be a Gyarados counter. I almost went with Thunder Wave but Taunt is just too scary for words.

Mekkah's Slowbro. This should take care of Gyarados nicely. It will fill the same role as Milotic and is probably better.

 

[DevilinDenial]

You have Heracross problems. We don't even need to look too far into your team to see that.

 

[Phuquoph]

Every team without Glion has problems with Heracross.

He's got resistances to all it's attacks, although Azelf is a shaky switch in as his only Fighting resist. Might have problems switching into Heracross, but it shouldn't cause too much damage before it gets took down.

Actually, put Peck (yes Peck) on Manmuu. It's a guaranteed OHKO on any Heracross with less than 96 HP EVs and does 89 - 100% to one with max HP.

 

[Misty]

Yeah, you really need some sort of stable Fighting resist to take on Heracross - In Fight will 2hko Azelf.

 

[DevilinDenial]

Gengar is actually pretty reliable, although Yonowaaru and other ghosts also work. With Skarmory and a Ghost you completely shut down any choice-style Heracross.

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

I am going to keep posting these numbers until you guys get it =/


Adamant, 319 Attack Gyarados's Dragon Danced Waterfall on a 334HP/416Def (max/max) Skarmory: 30-36%

Impish, 177 Attack Skarmory using Drill Peck on a 384HP/236Def (near-max/about half) Gyarados: 17-20%

When you consider you Skarmory's not getting lefties recovery, or any HP recovery at all if and when they Taunt you on the switch-in, and will likely DD again on your switch to whatever, you can stop discounting that it is trouble for your team! I honestly can't wait for people to switch Skarmory into my Gyarados in DP if no one's going to read my posts lol.

Also 227 speed Gyarados reaches 454 after two DDes just so you know, while your Manmuu only gets to 427 speed with its Adherence Scarf and is obviously OHKOed by Waterfall, so you pretty much have to switch Manmuu/Raikou into Gyara at first dight and hope it doesn't Waterfall/Earthquake respectively =/ "Also":

Bold, 253 Special Attack (68EVs) Milotic's Ice Beam on a 384HP/236SpD (near-max/min): 19-23%

I wouldn't be so bold as to switch Gyarados into Milotic unless I knew it was Recovering or (currently) Resting, but if you stay in you are done because of Taunt and if you switch into it you are still done because of Taunt. You will have to Ice Beam the whole way, since:

Adamant, 319 Attack Gyarados's Dragon Danced Earthquake on a 384HP/275Def (near-max/near-max) Milotic: 33-38%

and because your Marvel Scale will never have a chance to activate because your Rest attempts will be Taunted.

This is a somewhat solid team otherwise but please for your sake don't tell yourself Gyarados isn't a threat!

jumpman, you are really smart when it comes to this game, do you think you could post a team to give us ideas of what a perfect team should look like? also, i have another question. remember that slaking i posted a couple a days ago? do you think a thunder punch from my AScarf slaking could OHKO gyara if he had the right EV's in attack? he could be a viable counter if he could.

 

[Hyra]

Every team without Glion has problems with Heracross.

He's got resistances to all it's attacks, although Azelf is a shaky switch in as his only Fighting resist. Might have problems switching into Heracross, but it shouldn't cause too much damage before it gets took down.

Actually, put Peck (yes Peck) on Manmuu. It's a guaranteed OHKO on any Heracross with less than 96 HP EVs and does 89 - 100% to one with max HP.

CBPeck or ASPeck? Anyways Peck is my new filler. I know Heracross gives this teams major problems, I expected it to. Would Skarmory or Glion work better in that spot? I need the Dark Resist (sort of) and I definitely need Heracross coverage. So which one, Glion or Skarmory? (I would like Glion)

 

[Phuquoph]

CB Peck.

Glion would remove any Heracross problems and you've got Lucario as a Dark resist. Only problem with using Glion over Skarm is you won't have a phazer unless you replace another team member.

However, since you've got Heracross covered with Glion you could put Roar on Manmuu instead of Peck. CB Roar isn't a good idea obviously, but I only put a phazer on my teams to stop Ninjask really.

 

[Hyra]

yah, I forgot about Luacrio having a 4x Dark resist. I would love to add Glion considering he's much cooler than Skarmory. Manmuu will probably have Double Attack or Peck as the last move. I'm thinking about Double Attack because ASPeck would be weak.

Should I make Lucario a more stable version considering it will be my sole Dark Resist? Also, how much would SR/Spikes mess up my Sub strategy if it stays a revver?

 

[Phuquoph]

Depends on how often Lucario switches in and how many layers of Spikes are down. Endure is a safer bet if you're not using a spinner.

As your team is mostly centered around getting Raikou into a sweeping position, you could make Lucario a CBer, or even a SubPuncher. Giving him Leftovers might be a better choice if you're switching him into Tyranitar's Crunches. Sub/Focus Punch or In Fight/Crunch/Stone Edge isn't bad actually. Sub still affords some protection against Dugtrio too.

Consider taking Scheme off Azelf and replacing it with another special attack. With only two slots for special attacks he's easier to wall so the extra type coverage really helps. Psychic, HP Fighting and Flamethrower/Fire Blast mean you can kill off most Pursuit users if you predict right. Give him at least 351 speed to outspeed both Gengar and Infernape too.

 

[Hyra]

I was considering running another attack on Azelf. the thing is, I want him to be as scary as possible. Eh, I guess a team can't have two full-fledged stat uppers. And I will bump the Speed up, that was just a minimum so Adamant Dugtrio doesn't get free kills.

Your Lucario sounds good. I will have to use Focus Punch because In-Fight lowers his defence making it harder for him to take CBTTar. I guess I better run calcs to see if Lucario's sub will surive a CB Crunch or Stone Edge.

Ouch... It takes 252 HP to make a Crunch do 25% max and 252 HP and 176 Def to make Stone Edge do 25% max. There goes that idea. Now I'm not so sure if In-Fight or Focus Punch is better. I would love Focus Punch, but I can't use it if I switch into TTar.

 

[Jumpman16]

jumpman, you are really smart when it comes to this game, do you think you could post a team to give us ideas of what a perfect team should look like? also, i have another question. remember that slaking i posted a couple a days ago? do you think a thunder punch from my AScarf slaking could OHKO gyara if he had the right EV's in attack? he could be a viable counter if he could.

Thank you, I try =) and I have posted a team I feel is as close to "perfect" as you're gonna get in DP without knowing the metagame yet, Donphan's over Steelix.

I still don't think a smart Gyarados is staying in on Slaking unless the Slaking has under 50% HP and Gyarados has exactly one DD, cause even with two DDes at 319 attack Gyara only does 53-62% to Slaking's min 461HP/236Def. Slaking's a viable enough Gyarados counter because it can switch in safely and threaten a OHKO, it just so happens that it does more damage with Thunderpunch (280) than with Double Edge (180).

Anyway, Hyra, screw FP on Lucario, In Fight only lowers your damage after you use it and if CB Tyra stayed in it's dead as hell, lol. The only three things that can stop you from switching out safely after using In Fight are:

1) Dugtrio, who can't switch into to In Fight any day of the week and KOs you with EQ whether or not your defense is lowered
2) Wobuffet, who is banned, and
3) Pursuit, which Lucario resists 4×.

 

[Hyra]

Anyway, Hyra, screw FP on Lucario, In Fight only lowers your damage after you use it and if CB Tyra stayed in it's dead as hell, lol. The only three things that can stop you from switching out safely after using In Fight are:

1) Dugtrio, who can't switch into to In Fight any day of the week and KOs you with EQ whether or not your defense is lowered
2) Wobuffet, who is banned, and
3) Pursuit, which Lucario resists 4×.

I guess In-Fight's a sure fire OHKO on TTar. If it isn't I'll be amazed. In-Fight also doesn't lower Damage, I was just worrieds about a second Stone Edge KOing me. Ok, it could OHKO TTar with twice the amount of HP. In-Fight it is.

Hm... I like what this team became. If anyone else has suggestions, throw them at me.

 

[Phuquoph]

CB and Ice Pebble on Manmuu, most of your team is pretty fast. Extra power from CB will help against Swampert (Earthquake 2HKOs with a CB).

I'd put Knock Off or Stealth Rock on Glion in the last slot, both are good options.

The team looks really solid now, you don't have any glaring weaknesses and a good mix of offense and defense.