Bluntmons: Pokemon without STABs!

[Arcticblast]

Note that this meta only accounts for moves that get a power bonus: utility and fixed-damage moves are still fair game.

Anyway, this seems pretty interesting, and actually quite defensive, unlike the numerous offense-based metagames we've been seeing recently. I still can't wait to try out Nidoking though, that power boost is awesome...

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Question, is Hidden Power considered a STAB move (e.g. HP Psychic Alakazam) it's technically a normal type move. Great metagame, i'm excited to try it out!

Only question not already explicitly addressed in the OP and several times in the thread too (I can't really complain though I mean I didn't get this approved beforehand due to impatience and lack of reading, so the blackness of all you kettles out there matches the shade of my pot), SO:

Hidden Power grants a STAB boost if it's the same type as the user. So HP Psychic Zam wouldn't work, because it gets the boost. The typing of the moves are almost irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the boost itself (which, yes, is tied entirely to typing, but all squares are rectangles and not all rectangles are squares).

 

[youngjake93]

It has been said like 10 times plus it is in the OP that it only applies to moves that receive a STAB bonus. Transform doesn't get a 50% attack boost because it isn't an attack; therefore, Ditto can keep the move. Soo Ditto and Smeargle are not banned.
It might be worth noting that Delcatty still gets STAB due to Normalize changing all of its moves to normal type. I feel like Delcatty will still be bad, but it is cool still.
Mew gets access to most moves and Psychic STAB is bad anyway.
Substitute and Taunt are going to be two of the most popular moves in this stallish meta no matter what.

Edit: It seems the post above me contradicts what I assumed about Delcatty. Hmm

 

[SpartanMalice]

Delcatty has another ability though but yeah even with Normalize it might still be pretty mediocre.

I'm neutral towards Thundurus. It still gets Prankster and a better typing than Tornadus so even without STABs it's pretty dangerous. Remember if utility isn't banned it has access to a Prankster T-Wave.

 

[RedSpyda]

i presume the ability normalize would be banned then from the above delcatty reference.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

i presume the ability normalize would be banned then from the above delcatty reference.

Normalize Delcatty isn't banned, it just can't use any non-fixed attack moves (so it somehow sucks even more). It can go hogwild with utility moves.

 

[SpartanMalice]

I've made a team for this if anyone wants to give it a shot. It's still pretty iffy considering who to use though. So many physical attackers got nerfed.

 

[vyomov]

Just a thought or two:
a) Landorus gets Outrage: Landorus can now run a decent Outrage+Psychic+Focus Blast+U-Turn mixed set that can really kill off a lot of mons
b) Gallade: Gallade is now much better, as it can run E-quake, Aerial Ace, Night Slash and Leaf Blade
c) Azelf is quite impressive with Flamethrower to outspeed and OHKO Ferro

Ferro might run Occa Berry to reduce impact
Also, Cresselia is the best wall that exists.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Just a thought or two:
a) Landorus gets Outrage: Landorus can now run a decent Outrage+Psychic+Focus Blast+U-Turn mixed set that can really kill off a lot of mons
b) Gallade: Gallade is now much better, as it can run E-quake, Aerial Ace, Night Slash and Leaf Blade
c) Azelf is quite impressive with Flamethrower to outspeed and OHKO Ferro

Ferro might run Occa Berry to reduce impact
Also, Cresselia is the best wall that exists.

See, this is all so cool! I love seeing creative avenues take hold with this.

Cress is buffed significantly with no STAB u-turn or pursuit, but she still can't do a damn thing to Steel types, is Taunt-weak, and has no reliable recovery outside of the PP-unfriendly Moonlight and the RestTalk reliant Rest. I'm not saying she's not gonna rule, but she's still beatable. I'm more frightened of Chansey and Blissey thanks to the general physical nerf and their more reliable stalling tactics (wish, softboiled, heal bell, seismic toss, natural cure, etc.) and Latias for her more reliable recovery and the resistances that come with her dragon typing.

The Nidos ARE really good, but one thing that keeps them sane is their weakness to the incredibly common coverage move Earthquake (and also Ice Beam). Still, I've been getting more mileage out of Nidoqueen as a bulky attacker (still with Life Orb) than Nidoking, who tends to be OHKOd by any super effective hit.

 

[ryan]

Only Azurill, Emboar, Masquerain, Mew, Smeargle, and Stunfisk can learn Scald. :')

This metagame is probably going to be really stall-y to begin with. I have some ideas for some really cool Pokemon for this metagame though, and I'm interested in trying it out~

 

[Level 51]

Just theorymonning for the moment, but in the realm of setup sweepers,
-Volcarona still has QD and Giga Drain/Hurricane/Psychic
-Gyarados maintains Offensive DD with EQ/Stone Edge/Outrage
=Dragonite has DD/ESpeed/EQ/all 3 elemental punches.

Meanwhile Skarmory still does what it does best as proved by the replay in the OP lol.

 

[Nozzle]

fuck azumarill
this meta will defenitely be more on the defensive side
maybe ill even give stall a try
btw how about foul play?

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

Okay, just because folks keep asking about specifics, here is a handy primer on what is and isn’t allowed in Bluntmons:

• Can Sableye use Shadow Ball? No, because that gets a STAB boost.
• Can Sableye use Fake Out? Yes, because that does not get a STAB boost.
• Can Sableye use Confuse Ray? Yes, because despite being a Ghost-type move, it does not get a STAB boost.
• Can Sableye use Night Shade? Yes, because despite being a Ghost-type move, it does not get a STAB boost.
• Can Sableye use Foul Play? No, because that gets a STAB boost.
• Can Sableye use Hidden Power Dark or Ghost? No, because these get STAB boosts.
• Can Sableye use another Hidden Power type? I’m not sure why you’d want to, but yes, because they do not get STAB boosts.
• Can Normalize Delcatty use Thunderbolt? No, because Normalize gives it a STAB boost.
• Can Sawsbuck use Nature Power? Yes, because despite being Normal it gives Ground damage, which does not give a STAB boost.
• Could a hypothetical Ground-type use Nature Power? No, because despite being Normal it gives Ground damage, which gets a STAB boost.
• Can Hitmonchan use Counter? Yes, because despite being a Fighting-type move, it does not get a STAB boost.
• What about Focus Punch? Nope. Nice try, though.
• Say I’ve got Emboar with Scald. Can he use that, even if it can cause Burn? Sure thing, champ in the making, no STAB boost.
• But what if someone uses Soak on him? Is it now banned? Not unless someone fiddles with the game mechanics, no. Moves and abilities that change type within battle make STAB that ensues from those moves and abilities fair game; the ban is on moves that provide STAB to the base form of the user.
• So if Kecleon has Flamethrower—yes, if Kecleon has Flamethrower and gets hit by a Fire-type attack, he can still use Flamethrower.
• Well can’t I give him Slash, then, and use it when he’s not Normal-type? No, because Kecleon gets a STAB boost in his default form with Slash.
• Can Meloetta use Close Combat? Yes, because the Fighting form that would get STAB on this requires Relic Song, which gets STAB and is therefore banned.
• Castform? Same deal as Kecleon. Can use Powder Snow in Hail if the mood strikes, but not Weather Ball, as its default is Normal and Castform is Normal.
• AHA! Weather Ball! Can Froslass use Weather Ball in Hail? Yes, because Weather Ball doesn’t consistently give STAB as a move and it requires special circumstances to give it a STAB boost. If more Pokemon got potential STAB on Weather Ball I might change my mind on this, but as of now only the Snorunt family, Vanilluxe and Ho-Oh get the boost.
• Let’s pretend Ubers are now fair game. What about Arceus? His default is Normal but the plates make him—yeah yeah, I know; due to Multitype changing Arceus’s type for the duration of the battle, any move that has STAB is banned, and these moves change depending on what plate it’s got. The only consistently banned move is Judgment, which always receives STAB.
• So Normal Arceus can’t use ExtremeSpeed but Fist Plate Arceus can? Bingo.
• Mimic, Mirror Move, Copycat and the like can copy an opponent’s move that might receive STAB. Metronome can randomly pick a move that might receive STAB. Are they banned? No, because they do not consistently or even regularly give STAB boosts, and are situational enough that folks can’t rely on them to give their Pokemon powerful STAB attacks.
• Is Adaptability any good in this meta? You know what? Yes. Yes, it’s quite good. Go ahead and use that.

With the above stated, the simple, one-sentence rule for this meta has been amended to:
All moves that consistently bestow a Same Type Attack Bonus on a Pokemon’s type as seen in the Team Builder screen are banned.

 

[rolen120]

it would also be interesting to try this with all moves of their type banned. just to screw up things like softboiled/wish blissey and the like.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Dude, that's still allowed. Read the above post.

 

[Infernis]

Yes, he was commenting on that fact and that it would be interesting to also see a metagame without that allowance. Note the word 'also'.

 

[Heroes and Cons]

Calm Mind Reuniclus is gonna be a massive threat; it can use Shadow Ball and Focus Blast for perfect coverage, Recover combined with Magic Guard and lefties for great lasting power, and it no longer is threatened by Scizor's U-Turn, Heracross / Escavalier's Megahorn or Tyranitar's Crunch. Alakazam will be a faster, more offensive option which would also be much less hindered than most offensive pokemon by this metagame; an offensive set of Charge Beam / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / HP Fire anyone?

I'm predicting stall to become much more viable - which is why I expect Calm Mind Reuniclus to become a massive threat in the much less offensively-oriented metagame. Blissey and Chansey are completely unhindered, Ferrothorn is only disallowed from using Gyro Ball and Power Whip so it is still a great staller / wall (and Forretress is also similarly unhindered), and Sableye will be much harder to kill with things like Draco Meteor, STAB rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and STAB sun-boosted Fire Blasts banned. Some offensive Pokemon - like Volcarona, Breloom and Scizor - are almost completely useless now, while others like Tyranitar, Dragonite and Starmie are hindered but still have some good options. Wallbreakers are gonna be incredibly rare, with only a select few Pokemon like Dragonite even able to mount a significant offensive threat anymore. Stallbreaking is gonna basically consist of Reuniclus and Sableye (and possibly Crobat) trolling the hell out of the much more common stallers and walls in this metagame.

Basically, I'm predicting most offensive Pokemon that primarily rely on STAB moves to be almost useless, while ones that have great coverage and utility - Dragonite, Hydreigon, Alakazam, Nidoking and Starmie in particular spring to mind - to get great boosts in usage. Stall and stallbreaking are gonna get MASSIVE usage jumps as hyper-offense becomes basically non-existent. Oh yeah, and every single Rotom Forme is basically gonna die off out of existence.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

(this is the 10,000th post on the OM forum)

 

[SpartanMalice]

Yeah I didn't notice Infernis. Anyway, yeah Volc isn't completely useless. For starters, Hurricane is semi-exclusive to it - the only other pokemon with it is Whimsicott. Giga Drain takes care of jellicent who can't scald it anymore, and it can just QD and Roost to prevent it from being worn down. I find Volc's bulky set to be useful here. You're right on the money about Breloom and Scizor, though.

But you're right it being nerfed significantly, it needs HP ground to kill heatran and really, I'm considering making that change now.

Incidentally, the best counter to Gyarados is Bronzong. Resists Outrage and is Immune to EQ.

 

[Snaquaza]

In addition to the above post (I found that Bronzong while battling the above person :3)

Bronzong has still good uses, it has decent coverage with HP/Earthquake/Rock Slide/Explosion(/Charge Beam/Grass Knot/Signal Beam)
and all it can still use all of its more defensive moves
and yea, I also got almost swept by Volcarona, until I switched in Ferrothorn, this meta is so ironic <3

oh, I might wanna say that the person above me also tries to get STAB attacks in silently like Brave Bird Skarmory and Scald Tentacruel, JK

 

[SpartanMalice]

Yeah those were mistakes I overlooked by copy pasting directly from my old team, for Skarmory's last slot I actually think Pursuit is better since Jellicent can't scald it anymore.
Volcarona's problem is it needs to be used in rain though, since Hurricane missed more often than FB in that game. Plenty of pokemon that are not Electric (Mostly Water and Dragon types) get Thunder though so Rain isn't completely nerfed, the only real nerf is for Specs toed. Defensive Toed is likely a better option now.

 

[Morbidius]

I cannot see how this meta would be anything but a stallfest.

 

[JayHankEdLyon]

I cannot see how this meta would be anything but a stallfest.

Setup sweeping still exists (Gyara is so lovely), and anti-stall will always be fairly simple with status, taunt, phazing and hazing and the occasional encore.

It's more defensive for sure, but the fact that a lot of ghosts got nerfed (Gengar used Focus Miss! And not Sludge Bomb or Shadow Ball! Jellicent used I Don't Even Know!) while spinners largely did not, in context, keeps hazards from suddenly being worse than they already are.

Worst case scenario, I'm totally wrong and it becomes a stallfest. To which I say: and?

 

[Mr Omgness]

Jellicent can just use WoW instead of Scald now and will use Ice Beam probably as damaging move along with Taunt and Recover, which will make it a very strong mon in this meta I think. Funny thing it's a sitting duck vs Fire types in that setup but it needs to use Toxic or HP Ground/Rock for it not to be.

 

[Snaquaza]

Okay, this is programmed at my server