Bastiodon [QC 0/3]

[Exeggutor]

Overview
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• Excellent mixed wall
• Good utility movepool
• Capable of walling/checking many prominent special attackers in the tier (Haunter, Kadabra, Chatot)
  
• One of the few hard counters to Musharna
• Horrid offensive stats
• Two 4x weaknesses

Specially Defensive Utility
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name: Specially Defensive Utility
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Roar
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Magic Coat / Metal Burst
ability: Soundproof / Sturdy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
nature: Careful / Calm

Moves
========

• Stealth Rock's purpose on a lead like Bastiodon is self-explanatory
• Relies on Roar to deal with potential setup sweepers that might attempt to take advantage of its passiveness such as Barbaracle and Carracosta
• Toxic serves a similar function to Roar in gradually wearing down sweepers and offensive switchins
• The last moveslot is where options arise. Magic Coat prevents opposing Pokemon from taunting Bastiodon as well as setting hazards up on its side of the field, while Metal Burst allows it to deal somewhat unreliable damage without relying on its mediocre offensive stats. Rock Blast can also be used to prevent Bastiodon from relying on taking damage to deal damage back, as well give it the upper hand against Pokemon like Kadabra, Dodrio, Ninjask, Haunter and Substitute Mr. Mime

Set Details
========

• A standard 252 HP / 252 Special Defense EV spread is used, with HP investment improving its overall bulk and Special Defense investment maximizing its lower defensive stat; the remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense
• Soundproof can be used to effectively wall any Chatot lacking Hidden Power Fighting or Ground, while Sturdy allows it to almost guaranteedly set up rocks assuming that opposing Pokemon do not use multi-hit moves or posses Mold Breaker
• Leftovers is mandatory on a Pokemon like Bastiodon, providing it with passive healing so that it may continuously absorb attacks throughout a match as well as somewhat making up for the fact that it lacks reliable recovery
• A Calm nature should be used to further bolster its Special Defense; if opting to use Rock Blast, a Careful nature may be used

Usage Tips
========

• Should preferably be brought out late-game once most of its threats have been eliminated or weakened so that it can reliably set up Stealth Rock
  
• Try to keep Bastiodon healthy and prevent it from taking unnecessary damage so it may check what it needs to
• Easy to bring out against hazard stackers like Roselia and reflect any hazards they may try to set up via Magic Coat
• Use Toxic on offensive threats that the rest of the team will appreciate having worn down and brought into KO range
• Scout for Ground- and Fighting-type moves with another Pokemon

Team Options
========

• Gourgeist-S, Gourgeist-XL, and Mantine, as well as any other Pokemon that can take on or threaten most Fighting- and Ground-types have excellent defensive synergy with it
• Wish passers such as Lickilicky make good teammates to make up for its lack of reliable recovery
• Spinblockers like Gourgeist-XL, Haunter, and Misdreavus help ensure that rocks remain on the field for as long as possible
• Hazard stackers like Garbodor and Roselia work well with it as multiple hazards paired with phazing can put a dent in threatening Pokemon and discourage switching; the tao also have decent defensive synergy with Bastiodon, with both resisting Fighting-type moves and Roselia resisting Water-type moves

Other Options
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• Taunt can be used to prevent slow tanks such as Musharns from boosting themselves; an alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 208 SpD / 44 Spd can be used on a Taunt set to outspeed Base 35s, notably Clefairy
• A physically defensive EV spread can be used, but its typing is much more exploitable physically so this is generally not advisable
• Protect may be used to assist in scouting for one of Bastiodon's common weaknesses, stalling out increasing Toxic damage on opposing Pokemon and give it a small amount of healing via Leftovers, but it generally falls short to the utility that its other moves provide

Checks & Counters
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**Ground- and Fighting-types**: Any Ground- or Fighting-type can scare out or OHKO Bastiodon

**Taunt**: Variants opting not to run Magic Coat are rendered almost if not completely useless by Taunt

**Bouffalant**: Substitute + Soundproof Bouffalant renders Bastiodon virtually useless

**Pokemon immune to Toxic**: Anything that is immune to Toxic (i.e. Steel-types and Poison-types) have nothing to really fear from it

**Natu**: It was no way to do anything whatsoever to Natu and is pretty much dead weight against it

 

[Exeggutor]

ready for QC i think? not sure. idk

 

[Ares]

[Overview]
Really stress how much of a hard counter it is to Mushy (I really hope mushy gets banned but until then stress it)
It isn't really setup fodder as it can just Roar anything trying to setup out

[Set]
I really feel like Rock Blast needs to be the primary slash in the 4th move slot. I think it should go Rock Blast / Magic Coat. I really dislike Pokemon with zero attacking moves.

[Usage Tips]
Stress that Bastiodon is best used to set up rocks later in the game, already mentioned it has bad typing matchup.
You need to elaborate on how to use Bastiodon, right now all I'm getting from it is dont let it take damage if it needs to check stuff and watch out for super effective moves. This is pretty obvious stuff so go more in depth.

[C&C]
I think Substitute Sound Proof Bouffalant deserves a mention as it completely destroys Bastiodon

 

[Exeggutor]

[Overview]
Really stress how much of a hard counter it is to Mushy (I really hope mushy gets banned but until then stress it)
It isn't really setup fodder as it can just Roar anything trying to setup out

[Set]
I really feel like Rock Blast needs to be the primary slash in the 4th move slot. I think it should go Rock Blast / Magic Coat. I really dislike Pokemon with zero attacking moves.

[Usage Tips]
Stress that Bastiodon is best used to set up rocks later in the game, already mentioned it has bad typing matchup.
You need to elaborate on how to use Bastiodon, right now all I'm getting from it is dont let it take damage if it needs to check stuff and watch out for super effective moves. This is pretty obvious stuff so go more in depth.

[C&C]
I think Substitute Sound Proof Bouffalant deserves a mention as it completely destroys Bastiodon

Will implement once I'm on a computer, bit of a hassle to do it on here.

I'm a bit iffy with Rock Blast on Bastiodon, though. It's really just mediocre damage (only has like a 6.3% chance to OHKO Scyther on 3 hits, to put it into perspective) and I really think it'd prefer the ability to reflect/prevent hazards and being taunted than the really tiny amounts of damage that Rock Blast lets it do.

Also, would mentioning Soundproof in general and then mention Sub Bouff in there be a good way to go do it?

 

[Ares]

Will implement once I'm on a computer, bit of a hassle to do it on here.

I'm a bit iffy with Rock Blast on Bastiodon, though. It's really just mediocre damage (only has like a 6.3% chance to OHKO Scyther on 3 hits, to put it into perspective) and I really think it'd prefer the ability to reflect/prevent hazards and being taunted than the really tiny amounts of damage that Rock Blast lets it do.

Also, would mentioning Soundproof in general and then mention Sub Bouff in there be a good way to go do it?

Well, other soundproof mons like Mr. Mime, can have their subs broken by rock blast :P Bouff is the only relevant one.

 

[Exeggutor]

Well, other soundproof mons like Mr. Mime, can have their subs broken by rock blast :P Bouff is the only relevant one.

Bouffalant is the only relevant one, but I don't think it's really relevant enough to warrant adding Rock Blast in, tbh. Plus, you'll need at least 4 hits to even break the sub - more than the average 3 - and I doubt any Bastiodon is going to be trying to stay in on a Bouffalant because it's going to get pulverized anyway.

 

[Ares]

Bouffalant is the only relevant one, but I don't think it's really relevant enough to warrant adding Rock Blast in, tbh. Plus, you'll need at least 4 hits to even break the sub - more than the average 3 - and I doubt any Bastiodon is going to be trying to stay in on a Bouffalant because it's going to get pulverized anyway.

No I was saying for C&C Bouff deserves its own mention, I hate not having an attacking move as there are plenty of situations where you need to attack. Rock Blast deserves a slash in my book and I would never use it without it. Though I'm not QC so one of them should way in.

 

[Ary]

No I was saying for C&C Bouff deserves its own mention, I hate not having an attacking move as there are plenty of situations where you need to attack. Rock Blast deserves a slash in my book and I would never use it without it. Though I'm not QC so one of them should way in.

Bastoidon has no attack stat to abuse rock blast, and unless you're facing mime(which isn't even that common), it's kind of dead weight most of the time and you now have a move slot that's effectively dead weight when you could easily have a support move or metal burst in that slot. Oh speaking of Mburst i'd suggest slashing it for the 4th move it can really come in handy and i'd say it's just about as situational as magic coat move or taunt, probably less so.

seriously though if you're trying to attack with bastiodon you're kind of doing it wrong

 

[Ares]

Bastoidon has no attack stat to abuse rock blast, and unless you're facing mime(which isn't even that common), it's kind of dead weight most of the time and you now have a move slot that's effectively dead weight when you could easily have a support move or metal burst in that slot. Oh speaking of Mburst i'd suggest slashing it for the 4th move it can really come in handy and i'd say it's just about as situational as magic coat move or taunt, probably less so.

seriously though if you're trying to attack with bastiodon you're kind of doing it wrong

lol, im not trying to attack with Bastiodon, I'm saying there are situations where you need to attack to be able to KO something that otherwise will either recover health, KO you, pass something to a teammate etc. etc. Its not like I'm out there running CB Bastiodon, I know what I am doing lol.

 

[Conspire]

lol, im not trying to attack with Bastiodon, I'm saying there are situations where you need to attack to be able to KO something that otherwise will either recover health, KO you, pass something to a teammate etc. etc. Its not like I'm out there running CB Bastiodon, I know what I am doing lol.

What does Bastiodon even kill with rock blast that wants to taunt/set up on it? What's the point of rolling a die to try and break their sub with an unreliable, pissweak (seeing as his attack stat is 52?) and sometimes completely underwhelming STAB move? If you want a mon with similar typing/niche that can actually use a rock move, eviolite Lairon gets Head Smash and doesn't take recoil damage. Bastiodon is obviously better at some things than Lairon but if you need a rock move don't bother slapping it onto Bastiodon, it will do nothing in 95% of situations.

 

[Ares]

What does Bastiodon even kill with rock blast that wants to taunt/set up on it? What's the point of rolling a die to try and break their sub with an unreliable, pissweak (seeing as his attack stat is 52?) and sometimes completely underwhelming STAB move? If you want a mon with similar typing/niche that can actually use a rock move, eviolite Lairon gets Head Smash and doesn't take recoil damage. Bastiodon is obviously better at some things than Lairon but if you need a rock move don't bother slapping it onto Bastiodon, it will do nothing in 95% of situations.

You arent ment to be breaking anyones sub, you are ment to be attacking weakened Pokemon, finishing off threats and not getting walled by Pokemon like Haunter or Garbodor. Idk how all of you can go around out there giving free turns to people just because you arent running an attacking move, in fact this could mean the difference in a battle. Its up to QC so I'm not gonna argue the point with you anymore, if you have any further questions feel free to PM me.

 

[Conspire]

You arent ment to be breaking anyones sub, you are ment to be attacking weakened Pokemon, finishing off threats and not getting walled by Pokemon like Haunter or Garbodor. Idk how all of you can go around out there giving free turns to people just because you arent running an attacking move, in fact this could mean the difference in a battle. Its up to QC so I'm not gonna argue the point with you anymore, if you have any further questions feel free to PM me.

Yes, it's still underwhelming when it comes to "picking off weakened threats"

 

[Ary]

lol, im not trying to attack with Bastiodon, I'm saying there are situations where you need to attack to be able to KO something that otherwise will either recover health, KO you, pass something to a teammate etc. etc. Its not like I'm out there running CB Bastiodon, I know what I am doing lol.

Umm ok? In what situations are you passing anything to a soundproof mon? Hypno --> Bastiodon? Musharna ---> Mr.Mime? Electrode? You have roar boost passing isn't a problem. And even if something is recovering on you bastiodon isn't going to be able to do enough damage to anything relevant that has recovery unless it's like flareon. Anything that's subbing up on you that can't be roared out is something bastiodon doesn't want to be in on anyways, you're not going to have any luck with Bouffalant. It's so situational it's not worth putting on there as a slash.


Edit: Garbodor gets dpunch, you're not going to want to come in on it ever lest you enjoy getting 2hko'd. And if defensive haunter comes in on you, chances are you're getting taunted and burnt which means any damage you're inflicting is paltry at best and absolutely pathetic at worst.

 

[Punchshroom]

I see Rock Blast being useful in beating Haunter, Kadabra, and Substitute Mr. Mime (not even worth it against Sub Bouff which is quite bulky and has EQ), as well as taking down the likes of Chatot, Dodrio, non-Fighting move Scyther, Ninjask, SubRoost Articuno, etc.. much easier. Personally I find Rock Blast more useful than Taunt, which only really outshines Roar in a last-mon situation (that said, Musharna is a common last mon :/), so Rock Blast is definitely worth a mention.

Edit: I just realized you don't even really need Taunt against last-mon Musharna, since you can just spam Toxic against Heal Bells until the cows come home. Taunt won't even hold last-mon Clefairy back for long since it is faster and immune to whatever Bastiodon can do to it.

Edit: Garbodor gets dpunch, you're not going to want to come in on it ever lest you enjoy getting 2hko'd. And if defensive haunter comes in on you, chances are you're getting taunted and burnt which means any damage you're inflicting is paltry at best and absolutely pathetic at worst.

I doubt defensive Haunter is a thing when Misdreavus exists (SubSplit Haunter is about as passive with Haunter as you can get), and even then you should be playing mindgames against Missy with Magic Coat + Toxic anyway.

 

[Exeggutor]

Well, kind of confused as to what to go for now. I've had a couple of people tell me to add Rock Blast in, a couple tell me otherwise... I think I might add Rock Blast as perhaps a second slash on the fourth move. Still, I guess I'll ask one of the council members for more on this.

 

[Punchshroom]

Rock Blast can probably be mentioned in Moves; it's nice for people who can afford the moveslot, but otherwise the main 4 moves (SR, Roar, Toxic, Magic Coat) are too important to be dropped so easily. I'm still not sold on Taunt btw; it is hardly worth using over Roar in a large majority of cases.

 

[Kushalos]

I've been testing Taunt and it's generally not worth it, Magic Coat offers much more utility by bouncing back faster taunts hazards status etc. Taunt is also redundant af with Roar. It can be mentioned in moves section i guess and im also down for a Rock Blast mention.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Taunt in Moves at best (I'd prefer OO actually), Bastiodon is just too slow to make great use of it and Magic Coat + Roar tends to perform similar tasks. Metal Burst might be worth a slash with Magic Coat as an attacking move, since without MC you are very vulnerable to Taunt and Metal Burst is pretty handy with Sturdy (make note of that). Rock Blast gets a Moves mention because it has some utility in threatening the Pokemon Punchshroom mentioned, but if it is Taunted, Rock Blast will still rarely make a difference so it shouldn't be slashed.

 

[Exeggutor]

Alright, implemented the changes. Thanks for the help, guys

 

[Punchshroom]

Exeggutorial

Magic Coat prevents opposing hazard-setting leads from taunting Bastiodon

Not all hazard setters are Taunters (most notably Misdreavus); just say Taunt users in general.

Rock Blast can also be used to prevent Bastiodon from being completely shut down by Taunt and relying on taking damage to deal damage back, as well give it the upper hand against Pokemon like Kadabra, Dodrio, Ninjask and Substitute Mr. Mime

Bastiodon won't be shut down by Taunt since it either has Magic Coat, Metal Burst, or Rock Blast as its last move. Mention Haunter as an important target.

Since Rock Blast is not slashed on the set, the nature of choice on the main set should only be Calm. Talk about Rock Blast + Careful nature in Set Details.

Easy to bring out against hazard stackers like Roselia and then Taunt them or use Magic Coat to reflect back any hazards they try to set up

Remove mention of Taunt since it is not a main move; Taunt Bastiodon does a terrible job of holding hazard setters back anyway.

Hazard stackers like Garbodor and Roselia work well with it as multiple hazards paired with phazing can put a dent in threatening Pokemon and discourage switching

You could go further by mentioning their decent defensive synergy, namely resisting Fighting- and Water-type attacks, respectively.

 

[Exeggutor]

Exeggutorial

Not all hazard setters are Taunters (most notably Misdreavus); just say Taunt users in general.


Bastiodon won't be shut down by Taunt since it either has Magic Coat, Metal Burst, or Rock Blast as its last move. Mention Haunter as an important target.

Since Rock Blast is not slashed on the set, the nature of choice on the main set should only be Calm. Talk about Rock Blast + Careful nature in Set Details.


Remove mention of Taunt since it is not a main move; Taunt Bastiodon does a terrible job of holding hazard setters back anyway.


You could go further by mentioning their decent defensive synergy, namely resisting Fighting- and Water-type attacks, respectively.

All implemented. Thanks for all the help, guys.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Overview
########
- Musharna is banned, remove mention of it.
- Note that it is only useful on stall because it completely lacks offensive power and cuts your team's momentum.

Specially Defensive Utility
########
- Remove Careful. Rock Blast isn't on the set, so it's not worth slashing.
- I would prefer if this was named Utility, but that's up to you.

Moves
========
- Rock Blast should have its own point. No need to cram everything into one point when its about moves.
- I would actually split the point about Magic Coat and Metal Burst as well.

Usage Tips
========
- WTF, Bring it out late game? Why would you wait until late game to set up Rocks? It's supposed to be a reliable setter, so set it as soon as possible for maximum effect.
- Mention that Bastiodon lacks offensive presence, so Roar is vital to prevent opposing Pokemon from setting up on it so use it often. It also helps shuffle the opposing team to wear them down, which is about as offensive as Bastiodon gets.

Other Options
########
- Remove Musharna mention. I would even move Taunt further down because Mushy is gone.

Checks & Counters
########
- You need to go more in-depth with this section. Explain how some of these checks and counters stop Bastiodon. Remember, simply stopping Bastiodon from doing its job is sufficient, especially since it lacks offensive presence.
- Make special note of Marowak, as Bonemerang demolishes Bastiodon easily.
- Defog users and spinners, most notably the water-type ones and Earthquake Avalugg, can remove SR from the field and threaten Bastiodon. If Bastiodon lacks Magic Coat, Vullably can also Taunt it to stop it from setting up Rocks again.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Are you still planning to work on this Exeggutor because you haven't implemented my last check. Please implement and tag me in 48 hours, or I will have to reassign this analysis.

 

[Exeggutor]

WhiteDMist you can go ahead n reassign it