Well, at least I try to experiment something different, instead of using standard sets und mons.
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Item Assault Vest
- Thread starter Magcargo
- Start date
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Stop talking about Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is everywhere, case closed, even if it's not as common as it used to be (which I cannot confirm).
Arcanine is not a good user of AV. Here are some calculations:
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 254-302 (78.8 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So, after recoil or SR, that's a OHKO with intimidate.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Arcanine: 257-304 (79.8 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Once again.
-1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 296-350 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Not quite a OHKO, but again, with two recoil moves and a weakness to SR...
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Arcanine: 320-377 (99.3 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Again, here's the case of not quite a OHKO, but after rocks or recoil, it would be.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Arcanine: 238-280 (73.9 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It cannot do anything back, either.
What I'm getting at here is that Arcanine is not a good user of AV because it obviously can't have recovery, but it instead can only take recoil damage. It's weak to stealth rock, too, making a lot of these calculations OHKOs (bear in mind also that intimidate is activated on all of these). It has intimidate, which gives it a physical defensive advantage, but does that mean the AV should be slapped on it to make a defensive monster?
Before posting about how good an AV user is, try testing it and finding some reasons as to why it is good.
Arcanine is not a good user of AV. Here are some calculations:
-1 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 254-302 (78.8 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So, after recoil or SR, that's a OHKO with intimidate.
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Arcanine: 257-304 (79.8 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Once again.
-1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 296-350 (91.9 - 108.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
Not quite a OHKO, but again, with two recoil moves and a weakness to SR...
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Arcanine: 320-377 (99.3 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Again, here's the case of not quite a OHKO, but after rocks or recoil, it would be.
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Arcanine: 238-280 (73.9 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It cannot do anything back, either.
What I'm getting at here is that Arcanine is not a good user of AV because it obviously can't have recovery, but it instead can only take recoil damage. It's weak to stealth rock, too, making a lot of these calculations OHKOs (bear in mind also that intimidate is activated on all of these). It has intimidate, which gives it a physical defensive advantage, but does that mean the AV should be slapped on it to make a defensive monster?
Before posting about how good an AV user is, try testing it and finding some reasons as to why it is good.
I tested it, and in many occasions it worked. I'm not saying it's a GREAT user of this item, but only that surviving something he shouldn't survive to, he can eliminate one or two problematic foes, giving more breath to team mates.
A little background, so you might understand why I tried AV on Arcanine. I was breeding stuff for a tournament on another site, and they decide to apply the idiotic item clause. Having already given both Expert Belt and Life Orb on other team mates, I had no idea what to use on Arc. I din't know about Muscle Band back there (we're talking about one month after X/Y release), and I ended up trying this new item. In the end I used a completely different team, but still wanted to try this set, and with some good predictions, it works. But I'm far from saying that this is ever going to be standard, it's just the attempt to try something new.
If I should take all my sets on Smogon, I honestly don't see the fun at playing.
A little background, so you might understand why I tried AV on Arcanine. I was breeding stuff for a tournament on another site, and they decide to apply the idiotic item clause. Having already given both Expert Belt and Life Orb on other team mates, I had no idea what to use on Arc. I din't know about Muscle Band back there (we're talking about one month after X/Y release), and I ended up trying this new item. In the end I used a completely different team, but still wanted to try this set, and with some good predictions, it works. But I'm far from saying that this is ever going to be standard, it's just the attempt to try something new.
If I should take all my sets on Smogon, I honestly don't see the fun at playing.
I haven't read through the entire thread so I don't know if this has been posted or not, but Mamoswine makes a fine assault vest user. Neutral natured Mamo with 252 HP and 176 SpDef EVs only takes about 64% from Greninja's Hydro Pump, and access to knock off is always a plus.
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Malamar is a good AV user; it has no need to use non-attacking moves anyway since it revolves around spamming Superpower, which is where AV compliments it nicely as both defensive stats become very sturdy and your attack goes up simultaneously.
Malamar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Malamar in Sun: 183-216 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
With AV, you can easily tank a Zard-Y Fire Blast in the sun and KO back with Rock Slide, and Zard-Y would be a common switch-in to Mal because everyone knows he's just there to spam Superpower. Fun set to use too and once it gets going, it can be quite an annoyance. EV's can be changed for more Attack if need be.
Malamar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 248 SDef / 8 Def
Careful Nature
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 248+ SpD Assault Vest Malamar in Sun: 183-216 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
With AV, you can easily tank a Zard-Y Fire Blast in the sun and KO back with Rock Slide, and Zard-Y would be a common switch-in to Mal because everyone knows he's just there to spam Superpower. Fun set to use too and once it gets going, it can be quite an annoyance. EV's can be changed for more Attack if need be.
I feel Malamar would be a good AV user if future move tutor would provide it with Drain Punch, lack of recovery is a bitch on that set although it might be decent in lower tiers (Malamar doesn't have much business in OU atm anyway).
Has anyone mentioned AV Darmanitan? I was considering it recently as I needed something to take a few hits with. I may post the set when I finalize it.
Assuming full investment, you'd have 414/343 special bulk, which actually isn't bad. You also will have an offensive presence. However, a poor defensive typing and laughable defense makes me think that it isn't worth it.
95 base Speed and superpowered Flare Blitz means that Darm is far better suited to being an offensive Pokémon than a defensive one. While Assault Vest does help it against a handful of special threats like Sub +3 Attacks Kyurem-B, it doesn't give it any benefit against physical attacks, and when most of the attackers in the format are either faster or pack priority, and nearly all of them pack a super-effective move. It just doesn't function well in a meta where Azumarill and Garchomp exist, especially with a Choice Scarf.
I been using this Pokemon lately...
Empoleon @ Assualt Vest
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Flash Cannon
-Aqua Jet
EV: 252HP/252SpD/4Def
Sassy Nature
With that spread, Empoleon gets 496 Special Defense and with 9 resistances, it can switch in and even fight back. Aqua jet is there for doing bits of damage before it goes down. That set saved me a few battles.
Empoleon @ Assualt Vest
-Scald
-Ice Beam
-Flash Cannon
-Aqua Jet
EV: 252HP/252SpD/4Def
Sassy Nature
With that spread, Empoleon gets 496 Special Defense and with 9 resistances, it can switch in and even fight back. Aqua jet is there for doing bits of damage before it goes down. That set saved me a few battles.
Nobody realizes this, but Reuniclus has good bulk, hits hard, and has regenerator.
Reuniclus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Hp
Modest Nature
Reuniclus can also cover its weaknesses with coverage...
[EDIT: Fixed my grammar XD)
Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 172-203 (47.5 - 56%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO
meh.... But:
252+ SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 370-436 (129.3 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
--
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 152-182 (41.9 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 422-498 (161 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[EDIT: More calcs]
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus in Sun: 153-180 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 172-204 (57.7 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
--
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 224-266 (61.8 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 304-358 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Specs Hydreigon is a problem, but you can always switch and regen some health....
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252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 157-186 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
(and that's specs ._.)
252+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 306-362 (94.7 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
This thing is a fricking monster lol.
[EDIT: Took out some numbers I didn't need)
Reuniclus @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Hp
Modest Nature
Reuniclus can also cover its weaknesses with coverage...
[EDIT: Fixed my grammar XD)
Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 172-203 (47.5 - 56%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO
meh.... But:
252+ SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 370-436 (129.3 - 152.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
--
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 152-182 (41.9 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 422-498 (161 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO
[EDIT: More calcs]
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus in Sun: 153-180 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard Y: 172-204 (57.7 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
--
252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 224-266 (61.8 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 304-358 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Specs Hydreigon is a problem, but you can always switch and regen some health....
--
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Reuniclus: 157-186 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
(and that's specs ._.)
252+ SpA Reuniclus Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 306-362 (94.7 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
This thing is a fricking monster lol.
[EDIT: Took out some numbers I didn't need)
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While it's true that Slowbro is better, it DOES NOT necessarily mean Reuniclus is bad.
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Eviolite Slowbro new meta.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/4622332/penguin-slap-o.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/4622332/penguin-slap-o.gif
Have you guys ever tried AV Slowking? I know AV Slowbro gets attention because it gets fantastic mixed bulk, but with 252 HP / 252 SpA and a Calm nature, AV Slowking easily lives things like max SpA Aegislash's Shadow Ball and outslows to OHKO with Flamethrower, and it takes nothing from anything Lando-I carries, easily OHKOing it back with Ice Beam. In general, neutral special attacks do less than it regenerates when it switches back out, and it can chunk a wide variety of pokemon with its stabs, running Flamethrower and Ice Beam to grab 4x SE hits on Ferro/Scizor/Lando/Gliscor. I've found it to be extremely effective as a specially defensive pivot/bulky attacker. Here's the set I've been using:
Slowking @ Assault Vest
Regenerator
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Calm
0 Atk IVs
- Scald/Surf
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Ice Beam/Focus Blast
First slashes are generally what I use; second slashes are also good/viable.
Slowking @ Assault Vest
Regenerator
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Calm
0 Atk IVs
- Scald/Surf
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Ice Beam/Focus Blast
First slashes are generally what I use; second slashes are also good/viable.
I tried running AV on loads of Pokemons (Its my favourite item this gen) and for my experience, Azumaril is probably one the best AV user out there even tho it lacks recovery (After Conk, of course). T-tar with AV is almost flawless on the special side and can take any non stab Fighting special move and live to tell the story, but its weak on the physical side.
I hope Game Freak release a physical equivalent of AV in the next game. T-Tar would be an absolute tank, with Sand covering the special side and an item boosting its defence.
I hope Game Freak release a physical equivalent of AV in the next game. T-Tar would be an absolute tank, with Sand covering the special side and an item boosting its defence.
I do find it amusing how so many people advocate using Assault Vest on almost anything.
Yes, we get it. A 1.5x SpD boost is good. It's always better than a 0.0x SpD boost. However, that doesn't make AV an instantly viable option on every Pokemon.
Should only be used on mons with all of the below:
- a STELLAR movepool
- reliable recovery
- ability to function without their usual item.
Case closed tbh. It's a cool item but so many people take it overboard. Same goes for Weakness Policy. This is OU, not a gimmick tier.
Yes, we get it. A 1.5x SpD boost is good. It's always better than a 0.0x SpD boost. However, that doesn't make AV an instantly viable option on every Pokemon.
Should only be used on mons with all of the below:
- a STELLAR movepool
- reliable recovery
- ability to function without their usual item.
Case closed tbh. It's a cool item but so many people take it overboard. Same goes for Weakness Policy. This is OU, not a gimmick tier.
Like Regenerator
By his logic then only Slowbro could really run AV well
Tangrowth, Tornadus-I, and Slowking are all good users of it. Not really Slowbro, and DEFINITELY not Amoonguss or Alomomola.
But of course, they aren't the only ones, or the most common, or even the best.
this is a pretty bad strawman argument. saying regenerator was just giving an example of recovery outside of the typical recover/moonlight/slackoff/rest/etc.
the salient point is that recovery isn't tied specifically to those normal recovery moves that assault vest disallows, such as regenerator. drain moves (drain punch/giga drain/etc.) fit this criteria as well.
Regenerator, drain punch, giga drain etc...
Seen too many people post 'mons with AV + recoil moves / SR weaknesses etc... Defeats the object of the item IMO.
I beg to differ, AV Amoonguss and Slowbro are both great. With Amoonguss you can't use Spore, sure, but the threat alone is enough to play well with.
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