Ask a Simple Question; Get a Simple Answer & General Resources (OU Edition)

[Zacchaeus]

Yeah Honkos is the best, silver light just doesn't work right any more have has some pretty outdated spreads and sets. Honkos also gives chances for KOs after rocks/ spikes and weather.

What does that even mean? It works perfectly fine for me, the only things it doesn't do as well as I would like is that it sometimes doesn't accept moves that you type in manually like a maxed out Stored Power, and it will always give you the Rivalry boost regardless of the Pokémon genders. Honko takes longer to use because of everything being manual and Masara has better LC damage calculations. And it seems to me that Stealth Rock/Spikes calculations are pretty basic and you should be able to figure those out without too much thought

I'm definitely not new here, been here for a good year. However, one thing has always for some reason never been answered or confirmed for me: The difference between a Check and a Counter.

What really defines a counter is the fact that it can switch in on any move and beat the Pokémon it switched in on. So a Ludicolo with Rain Dance, Giga Drain, Surf, and Ice Beam would be countered by Shedinja, because it can take any of those moves. A check might not be able to take a certain attack from the Pokémon it aims to check, but it can beat it as a revenge killer or it can scare the checked Pokémon away. So while a defensive Gliscor might not be able to take 2 Stone Edges from a Jolly Terrakion, it could come in on a Quick Attack, Close Combat, X-Scissor, or Earthquake, and then beat the Terrakion with Earthquake

 

[Je-Muzu]

would Mienshao work better with Ice punch from BW2, or is Hidden power(Ice) a better alternative to beat the pokemon its uses its ice move on? if so to ice punch should jolly be used instead and of Naive and will the point in speed that it gains from not using hp allow it to outspeed something that countered it previously or make much difference?

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

would Mienshao work better with Ice punch from BW2, or is Hidden power(Ice) a better alternative to beat the pokemon its uses its ice move on? if so to ice punch should jolly be used instead and of Naive and will the point in speed that it gains from not using hp allow it to outspeed something that countered it previously or make much difference?

Assumming LO All-Out Attacker Mienshao:

- Standard Gliscor is not OHKOed by Ice Punch, but is OHKOed by HP ice.

- Landorus is OHKOed by both (Landorus-T will live Ice Punch because of Intimidate).

- Dragonite dies to both after SR and without SR it doesn't matter because lol multiscale.

- Salamence is OHKOed by both, but Intimidate 'Mence can survive Ice Punch without SR on the field.

Since those are the "main" targets for the attack, I'd stick with HP ice, because it reliably KOes all of them (bar MS Dragonite but yeah).

If using Ice Punch, yes, use Jolly, since Mienshao would then have no special attacks at it's disposal. However, I'd stick with HP Ice.

The single point in speed allows Mienshao to tie with opposing Mienshao and Zoroark (but IIRC there's a certain combination that allows you to keep 31 Spe with HP Ice).

 

[Electrolyte]

would Mienshao work better with Ice punch from BW2, or is Hidden power(Ice) a better alternative to beat the pokemon its uses its ice move on? if so to ice punch should jolly be used instead and of Naive and will the point in speed that it gains from not using hp allow it to outspeed something that countered it previously or make much difference?

Generally, HP Ice is better than Ice Punch. It is more powerful, and hits Gliscor/Landorus's weaker side. It is also unaffected by Landorus-T's Intimidate, meaning that it will still be able to KO.

Naive is a positive speed nature, so you can't get any faster than what the set has, unless you have a scarf.

 

[Jimbon]

I'm definitely not new here, been here for a good year. However, one thing has always for some reason never been answered or confirmed for me: The difference between a Check and a Counter.

I know I'm not the only one, as a counter and a check sound like they would almost mean the same thing. Here's what I think they mean, but if they are wrong please correct me. If I'm right, let me know.

Check: Term used when a Pokemon has the ability to take out a threat with ease, or without having to take much damage in order to demolish it.

Example: Technician Breloom is a good check against Scarfed Terrakion.

Counter: Term used when a Pokemon has the ability to switch into and has the right type or defense to wall or stop the threat dead in it's tracks.

Example: Blissey and Chansey are good at countering special attackers such as Alakazam and Reuniclus. Ferrothorn is a good counter against Dragons locked into Outrage, and has the ability to counter fast sweepers by paralyzing them with Thunder Wave.

A check has the ability to beat the Pokemon in question, while the same applies the other way around. It's called a check because the Pokemon used to check something keeps the other in check. It can often force the other out in fear of being beaten, but at the same time it is still risking being beaten itself. The reliability of a Pokemon being a check against something else is determined on what it can switch in on. Breloom is a pretty good check against Terrakion as they both have the ability to beat eachother, but something like Keldeo is a much softer check to Terrakion as Keldeo lacks the priority Breloom has to remove weakened Terrakion.

Counter on the other hand is a little different. A counter to a Pokemon is something that switches in without fearing anything from what it is switching in. Generally a counter is used to describe a Pokemon if it can switch in without being 2HKO'd with Stealth Rock up. For example, Tyranitar is a pretty good counter to Latias, Dragon Pulse from Latias does not 2HKO Tyranitar with Stealth Rock up, while it can easily set up Stealth Rock itself. Tyranitar can also Pursuit and Crunch Latias, either deal with it pretty effectively. A counter is usually more clear cut than a check, as it is pretty to determine if x deals with y and can force it out.

 

[voodoo pimp]

The single point in speed allows Mienshao to tie with opposing Mienshao and Zoroark (but IIRC there's a certain combination that allows you to keep 31 Spe with HP Ice).

30/31/30/31/31/31 is the best HP Ice spread for a mixed attacker. I don't know where people are getting this idea that HP Ice has to have 30 Speed, but it's been happening a lot lately.

Edit @Chimpakt: Well then I guess that's their fault for still using PO :P

 

[chimpact]

The standard spread for PO is 31/31/31/31/31/30, so by default they have the Speed IV of 30.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

What does that even mean? It works perfectly fine for me

Maybe its your internet connection or computer, no matter what browser I use, it always fails for me. Well now it does, 6 months ago it was fine.

 

[jony2D]

What happens if a pokémon with Magic Bounce uses a non-atacking move to a pokémon with Magic Bounce?

Eg: Xatu uses toxic against Espeon, what happens?

 

[Sewa]

Magic Bounce works only once: Xatu trying to toxic Espeon gets bounced but can't bounce back.

 

[jony2D]

Ok, Thanks!

 

[FaceFaceFace]

What's a respectable number of points on the PS OU ladder?

 

[Lavos]

What's a respectable number of points on the PS OU ladder?

Uhhh...that's extremely subjective, but I'd say if you're a reasonably new player, a benchmark of 1700 points would be considered "respectable". 1800 is solid, 1900+ is where most of the experienced users reside.

 

[hoult66]

I don't know where to put this: So i've been looking through some of the forums and under peoples names it says banned duecer with a slash through their name. What is this?

 

[Ricky Horror]

I don't know where to put this: So i've been looking through some of the forums and under peoples names it says banned duecer with a slash through their name. What is this?

They are banned for multiple infractions.

 

[Diachronos]

I noticed that Quagsire's OU entry says that "Ice Punch is great against Dragon- and Grass-types, but is illegal with Unaware." While that was true in BW, the move tutors in BW2 make it possible to teach Ice Punch to any Quagsire, regardless of what its ability is. Shouldn't Quaggy's page be reassessed and modified to include the tutor moves that would benefit his sets?

I'm only bringing this up because I've noticed a few other Pokemon have been updated to include moves that they can only learn legally from BW2 tutors (like Golruk).

 

[voodoo pimp]

I noticed that Quagsire's OU entry says that "Ice Punch is great against Dragon- and Grass-types, but is illegal with Unaware." While that was true in BW, the move tutors in BW2 make it possible to teach Ice Punch to any Quagsire, regardless of what its ability is. Shouldn't Quaggy's page be reassessed and modified to include the tutor moves that would benefit his sets?

I'm only bringing this up because I've noticed a few other Pokemon have been updated to include moves that they can only learn legally from BW2 tutors (like Golruk).

Analyses have to be manually updated, and presumably Quagsire hasn't been done yet. If you want to help out, head over to Contributions and Corrections and see if it's available or if someone's already working on it (make sure to read all the important rules threads and such first, of course).

 

[alkinesthetase]

also be sure to fish around for the threads labeled "username's list", eg yee's list, sds's list, etc. at the start of bw2, a whole bunch of qc members wrote lists of mons that needed revamps, to clean up the OU analyses as a whole. quagsire could be in any one of the lists, and it might not have been marked as needing a major revision, in which case it wouldn't be receiving a whole new analysis at all. in that case you may want to check out the small, objective changes thread in the fifth gen section of c&c (not specific to any one tier) to let them know about that correction

 

[MRS3]

Has roseraide recently been put into ou? He is listed as uu but i put him on my uu team and it changed to an ou team.

 

[Nix_Hex]

Really strange scenario here; I'm trying to build an Assist team based around Prankster Liepard and a bunch of phazers. It'll be something like:

Pokemon 1: Whirlwind / - / - / -
Skarmory: Stealth Rock / Roar / Whirlwind / -
Smeargle: Roar / Whirlwind / - / -
Pokemon 4: Whirlwind / - / - / -
Pokemon 5: Whirlwind / - / - / -
Pokemon 6: Assist / ? / ? / ? (I already have these decided, not telling though)

I need to know how Assist would pick the moves. Assume P is probability of the move being picked by Assist. Would it be something like:

Whirlwind (P=1/8)
Whirlwind (P=1/8)
Whirlwind (P=1/8)
Whirlwind (P=1/8)
Whirlwind (P=1/8)
Roar (P=1/8)
Roar (P=1/8)
Stealth Rock (P=1/8)

so the total probabilities would add to:
Whirlwind (P=0.625)
Roar (P=0.25)
Stealth Rock (P=0.125)

or would it just count each move as one occurrence:

Whirlwind (P=1/3)
Roar (P=1/3)
Stealth Rock (P=1/3)

I really hope it's the former, so It's not picking Stealth Rock 1/3 of the time. I need Skarmory to lay down Stealth Rock at some point so the phazing actually does damage.

Here's how you should NOT answer this question:
-Don't use Prankster / Assist
-I don't know

I honestly have no idea exactly how this works and I haven't been able to find any documentation on it. If someone wants to test this with me in a Wi-Fi Battle, that would be really awesome.

 

[poccil]

NixHex:

I've tested this in-game. In this case, Assist will count a move more than once if more than one Pokemon has that move. (That means there will be a greater chance that move will be selected, so the first scenario would happen.)

 

[Nix_Hex]

So just to be sure that I'm understanding you right, the former scenario would happen, right? You can answer by editing your post, I'll see it. If so, that is rad. Thanks for the info!

 

[alkinesthetase]

Has roseraide recently been put into ou? He is listed as uu but i put him on my uu team and it changed to an ou team.

it's most definitely still UU on smogon tiers (ie pokemon showdown).... idk, anybody know if PO tiers are different in this regard?

 

[BattleStar]

Is it just me or did all the stickies with the IRC channels for specific meta games go? I found them extremely helpful because I could just go to that thread and click on the link. Are any irc stickies left which have actual link in them?

 

[Jukain]

Is it just me or did all the stickies with the IRC channels for specific meta games go? I found them extremely helpful because I could just go to that thread and click on the link. Are any irc stickies left which have actual link in them?

all you gotta do is go to mibbit login with your nick and enter #pokemon for ou and all tiers too, #genvuu for uu, #rarelyused for ru, #neverused for nu, and/or #littlecup for lc