Amoonguss

[JES]

[Overview]

Ever since it's introduction in Generation 5, Amoonguss has managed to squeeze itself into the higher tiers. Even in Generation 5, while it was technically in the Rarely Used tier, much like the real thing, Amoonguss is a tenacious little thing that has found it's own niche in the VGC format and OU.

Amoonguss has a few traits that might make it worth a spot on your team over other Grass types like Ferrothorn and Poison types like Eternatus. These are Spore: the only 100% accurate sleep-inducing move in the game, the ability Regenerator, which heals Amoonguss by one-third of it's HP when switched out, and Clear Smog, which scrubs an opponent boosts. Finally, Amoonguss has passable defenses in the form of 115 HP/70 Defense/80 Special Defense, allowing it to resist most attacks falling into the not-very-effective category, and even some neutral and super-effective moves.

[Set Sample 1]
name: Special Wall (AKA, F#$^ Xerneas!!!)
move 1: Spore
move 2: Synthesis
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Clear Smog
item: Black Sludge
ability: Regenerator
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]

• This set specialized in resisting non-super effective moves, and even some non-STAB super-effective moves from special attackers, such as Kyogre.
• Spore is the only sleep-inducing move with a 100% accuracy, and timed correctly, can put a critical opponent's team member to sleep.
• If the correct opponents are a combination put to sleep and knocked out, it can give an opening for sweepers like Xerneas and Calyrex-S to come in and set up.
• Synthesis is useful as a direct healing move.
• Clear Smog is to be used against set-up sweepers, and is especially devastating against Xerneas, who can only set up with Geomancy once without being locked in for an additional turn.
• Sludge Bomb is for finishing off enemy Xerneas, or just inflicting damage, with a 30% chance of poison.
• Max HP and SpD gives this set the best chance to switch in on a Special Attack, and survive long enough to use Spore. The rest of the EVs in Defense gives it the best chance to maybe survive one or two contact moves.

[Team Options]:

• Hazard Setters such as Cloyster, Excadrill, Defensive Necrozma DM, and Groudon, potentially weakening the opponent's team and rendering Focus Sash's inert, allowing Sweepers to do their job.
• Set-up Sweepers, such as Nasty Plot Calyrex-S and Xerneas. However, this requires that counters to Calyrex-S and Xerneas such as Yveltal, Zarude, and Marshadow, and Necrozma-DM and Ho-Oh respectively, are also team members of Amoonguss.
• Specs and Scarf Kyogre, Urshifu, Nasty Plot Calyrex-S, Geomancy Xerneas, and Complete Zygarde are some of the most effective sweepers in the game once their counters have been shut down or elimited, but they require support.
• Cleriecs such as Blissey. A status condition can give Blissey an opportunity to use Aromatherapy/Heal Bell or Wish to patch up another team member. However, in the fast pace of Ubers, it should be noted that opportunities will be very rare, and in my experience, it is usually better to use this team slot for something else.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options

• Foul Play may be used against set-up sweepers and the tier's many Psychic or Ghost types, and may be used against Steel types. It is situational however.
• Giga Drain may be used as a damaging STAB move. However, the four moves above gives Amoonguss the best chance to survive long enough to fulfill it's purpose. It is generally better to run another team member who can counter Ground, Rock, and Water types.

Checks and Counters

• Steel types, especially sweepers, who are immune to Clear Smog, and will knock out Amoonguss before he can use Spore.
• Ferrothorn completely walls Amoonguss, due to the removal of HP Fire.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[JES]]
- Quality checked by: [[TBD]], [TBD]]
- Grammar checked by: [[TBD], [TBD]]

 

[Lasen]

I will be the killjoy that reminds people that you can't have casual writing in your analyses. Sorry to say this while it's still a WIP but I'd rather nip this issue at its bud, bud.

 

[JES]

This is my first attempt at an analysis (plus I have been reading too many of Fatecrasher's entries lately, because I've been needing a laugh), so mistakes were bound to be made.

If the casual writing has to go, I will dump some fungicide on this bud!

 

[Lasen]

This is my first attempt at an analysis (plus I have been reading too many of Fatecrasher's entries lately, because I've been needing a laugh), so mistakes were bound to be made.

If the casual writing has to go, I will dump some fungicide on this bud!

if you need any help with making this closer to what it's "supposed to be" you can always ask once you have it QC ready either in our analysis channel in the Ubers discord or even contacting one of the QC members here via Private Messages. I hope you enjoy writing this analysis.

 

[JES]

if you need any help with making this closer to what it's "supposed to be" you can always ask once you have it QC ready either in our analysis channel in the Ubers discord or even contacting one of the QC members here via Private Messages. I hope you enjoy writing this analysis.

I have no doubt that I will need help getting this meet expectations, especially since I have a tendency to learn while making mistakes (or was it making mistakes while learning?)

For now, I think the first step is to test out a couple of sets in Showdown and see how they work in practice, work out the very simple skeleton base on my findings within a couple of days, re-read the C&C rules, and base a pre-final rough on that. I believe that should give one of our members a nice frame to work with!

Thank you for your help so far!

 

[JES]

I believe that this is as close to QC-Ready as I can get without any outside input. Please note that this is the first attempt on my part to contribute to, let alone write an entire analysis, so hopefully this is what Minority meant as the ideal method that "tells us that you are ready for your analysis to be checked."

As per Quality Control rules, this analysis has not been completely written up, being just a skeleton of bullet points (albeit as detailed as I think I can get away with---for future reference for my own benefit).

 

[Aberforth]

I am sorry, but this is not QC ready. There are too many factual errors regarding this, the Overview does need to be written before QC can check it, Amoongus definitely doesnt deserve 2 full sets, Regenerator is absolutely mandatory on all sets, and the EVs need to be redone to match other analysis formats. Have a look at the Aerodactyl analysis to see how the EVs a should look like.

For the time being, I cannot give a stamp without essentially re-writing the analysis myself, I'd suggest you put this back in WIP until these things are fixed and then ping me again to see if it is QC ready then.

 

[JES]

Thanks for your advice.

I'll consolidate the two sets into one.

Now, the EVs I came up with are effective/appropriate, I just need to use the format that uses slashes, correct?

Could you tell me which factual errors I made? Much of the information above came from my own personal experience using Amoonguss, including the use of Effect Spore. If/when this comes to mentioning power/defense differences/damage calculations, I think I should add that I have no experience with doing so.

If it's okay, I'd like to at least mention Effect Spore as an alternative strategy instead.

 

[Aberforth]

The only set that should exist is the SpDef one, Phys-Def should be scrapped entirely.

Amoongus does not resist Urshifu's Wicked Blow.

Dont talk about Legendaries, if you need to make that distinction talk about Pokemon commonly seen in the Uber tier or something.

Checks and Counters should be talking about things that like to come in on Amoongus, not things like Kyogre.

Healers is confusing because Healer is an actual ability in pokemon, talk about Clerics or cleric support instead.

Do not talk about Effect Spore, Regenerator is absolutely necessary so that you can passively recover off hits without spending a turn doing so.

There's other smaller stuff but like I said this isnt in the QC stage anyway.

 

[JES]

With all due respect, and I know that you have been doing this for a long time, however, I have been testing out the Effect Spore/Rocky Helmet set in Showdown, and it HAS proven to be effective against Physical Attackers, especially when my only other choice would have been to sacrifice an attacker or tank like Yveltal that would not have survived. There is very little in my experience that can safely switch in on Dracovish, Darmanitan-G.

And while it was no guarantee, that 30% chance to inflict a status effect has stopped an offending Pokemon in its tracks. That includes an Urshifu that didn't like getting put to sleep, a Pheromosa that used Triple Axel, and a Darmanitan-Galar, allowing me to then switch into and set up with one of my Sweepers. Most of the Pokemon in Ubers are so powerful, that they will knock out a Amoonguss switching in. In my experience, Effect Spore makes a good alternative.

However, many of the most powerful physical attackers go without contact moves, such as Necrozma DM, so it would be situational.

All of that said, I know the pecking order around here. It's your call regarding whether it gets included in other options.

 

[Aberforth]

I'm not giving a QC check to Effect Spore Amoongus, nor a Physically Defensive set.

 

[Crunchman]

While Rocky Helmet Amoonguss with Effect Spore has incomprehensible potential to stop opposing threats in their tracks, Amoonguss may only have a couple of chances to inflict status. (It's bulky enough that it is rarely one-shot, but still struggles to find opportunities.) You also mentioned that Amoonguss can be sacrificed- if you wanted to defensively apply status, you could simply use a Pokemon that can switch in safely to said offensive threat (you should teambuild so that you have ways to deal with all the common threats in the tier) and apply status manually; this is better most of the time because it means that you can apply status/otherwise stop the threat multiple times, not just once. If you were able to do it once, your opponent perhaps could use Aromatherapy or Heal Bell and simply heal off the ailment; it's also possible an offensive threat could simply be poisoned (or some other status it does not care about), or not even activate the ability, and suddenly you are out of counterplay (if you have other counterplay then obviously you could just use that instead of Amoonguss!). Biggest thing here is consistency - Amoonguss is a defensive Pokemon, and defensive checks want to be able to check offensive threats all of the time, not just riding on a 30% chance to get a status that might not harm the Pokemon and could also be healed off. If you were really set on wanting to inflict status and thereby give your sweepers a chance to setup, IE you were using a more offensive team, you would still want to use a different Pokemon that can spread status while exerting offensive pressure so as not to be a momentum sink.

Now, Effect Spore is an ability with a lot of possible upsides; the reason it does not warrant a mention in this analysis is the lost opportunity cost of running Effect Spore over Regenerator. To understand why this might be, we must first explore what makes Amoonguss special: access to Spore, solid defensive stats, access to reliable recovery in Synthesis, and access to the strongest defensive ability in the game, Regenerator. Amoonguss needs to check the threats it does repeatedly, over and over. If you relied only on Synthesis to recover, Amoonguss could quickly become chipped down and KOed, or run out of Synthesis PP. Using Regenerator as the ability means that Amoonguss is able to make progress against opposing teams while not being forced to simply switch in and click Synthesis to heal off.

Besides this, I have a few other things to note:
The item is usually Black Sludge for passive recovery that punishes Trick users.

Giga Drain may be used as STAB move against Water and Ground types. Due to the prevalence of Pokemon with resistant types in the tier, the usefulness of Synthesis or Giga Drain and vise-versa will be dependent on your opponent's team.
You should include mentions of the metagame in your analysis. Which Water and Ground type Pokemon (they should probably be on the viability rankings) does Giga Drain hit? Which Pokemon resists Giga Drain?
It's spelled vice-versa.
Remember, when you're teambuilding, you don't know what your opponents team is going to be. You need to choose based on your own team - what Pokemon do you desperately need Amoonguss to check, and in order for it to check those Pokemon which do you need more desperately. (I personally don't think Amoonguss should ever drop Synthesis.)

You mention Spore "giving your setup sweepers opportunities to switch in and setup". It should be noted that sleep is 33% chance for 1 turn, 33% chance for 2 turns, and 33% chance for 3 turns. That means that since you need to spend a turn switching in, there is a 33% chance you get no turns of setup (it can be very dire if you get attacked on this turn), a 33% chance of 1 turn of setup and a 33% chance of 2 turns of setup. This isn't even including the fact that if your opponent chooses to switch to a different Pokemon all of a sudden the sleep is out of the question. Also notwithstanding the fact that most defensive switch-ins to your offensive threats are meant to be able to switch in and still win the interaction- sleeping won't help that out. Where it can help is if you put a critical part of your opponents team to sleep you can exploit that opening - note that sleep doesn't always force your opponent out, and it certainly often does not give you a free opportunity to setup.

There are some other things with this analysis that need to be fixed, but as this post is already more than long enough I'll save them for now.

 

[JES]

While Rocky Helmet Amoonguss with Effect Spore has incomprehensible potential to stop opposing threats in their tracks, Amoonguss may only have a couple of chances to inflict status. (It's bulky enough that it is rarely one-shot, but still struggles to find opportunities.) You also mentioned that Amoonguss can be sacrificed- if you wanted to defensively apply status, you could simply use a Pokemon that can switch in safely to said offensive threat (you should teambuild so that you have ways to deal with all the common threats in the tier) and apply status manually; this is better most of the time because it means that you can apply status/otherwise stop the threat multiple times, not just once. If you were able to do it once, your opponent perhaps could use Aromatherapy or Heal Bell and simply heal off the ailment; it's also possible an offensive threat could simply be poisoned (or some other status it does not care about), or not even activate the ability, and suddenly you are out of counterplay (if you have other counterplay then obviously you could just use that instead of Amoonguss!). Biggest thing here is consistency - Amoonguss is a defensive Pokemon, and defensive checks want to be able to check offensive threats all of the time, not just riding on a 30% chance to get a status that might not harm the Pokemon and could also be healed off. If you were really set on wanting to inflict status and thereby give your sweepers a chance to setup, IE you were using a more offensive team, you would still want to use a different Pokemon that can spread status while exerting offensive pressure so as not to be a momentum sink.

Now, Effect Spore is an ability with a lot of possible upsides; the reason it does not warrant a mention in this analysis is the lost opportunity cost of running Effect Spore over Regenerator. To understand why this might be, we must first explore what makes Amoonguss special: access to Spore, solid defensive stats, access to reliable recovery in Synthesis, and access to the strongest defensive ability in the game, Regenerator. Amoonguss needs to check the threats it does repeatedly, over and over. If you relied only on Synthesis to recover, Amoonguss could quickly become chipped down and KOed, or run out of Synthesis PP. Using Regenerator as the ability means that Amoonguss is able to make progress against opposing teams while not being forced to simply switch in and click Synthesis to heal off.

Besides this, I have a few other things to note:
The item is usually Black Sludge for passive recovery that punishes Trick users.

Giga Drain may be used as STAB move against Water and Ground types. Due to the prevalence of Pokemon with resistant types in the tier, the usefulness of Synthesis or Giga Drain and vise-versa will be dependent on your opponent's team.
You should include mentions of the metagame in your analysis. Which Water and Ground type Pokemon (they should probably be on the viability rankings) does Giga Drain hit? Which Pokemon resists Giga Drain?
It's spelled vice-versa.
Remember, when you're teambuilding, you don't know what your opponents team is going to be. You need to choose based on your own team - what Pokemon do you desperately need Amoonguss to check, and in order for it to check those Pokemon which do you need more desperately. (I personally don't think Amoonguss should ever drop Synthesis.)

You mention Spore "giving your setup sweepers opportunities to switch in and setup". It should be noted that sleep is 33% chance for 1 turn, 33% chance for 2 turns, and 33% chance for 3 turns. That means that since you need to spend a turn switching in, there is a 33% chance you get no turns of setup (it can be very dire if you get attacked on this turn), a 33% chance of 1 turn of setup and a 33% chance of 2 turns of setup. This isn't even including the fact that if your opponent chooses to switch to a different Pokemon all of a sudden the sleep is out of the question. Also notwithstanding the fact that most defensive switch-ins to your offensive threats are meant to be able to switch in and still win the interaction- sleeping won't help that out. Where it can help is if you put a critical part of your opponents team to sleep you can exploit that opening - note that sleep doesn't always force your opponent out, and it certainly often does not give you a free opportunity to setup.

There are some other things with this analysis that need to be fixed, but as this post is already more than long enough I'll save them for now.

I was prepared to and will abide by the conditions that Aberforth has set before me. Effect Spore will be dropped as even an Other Option.

You however have explained beautifully why, while you see the potential that I have experienced while playing with Effect Spore, why it must be dropped completely.

I have noticed while playing that an opponent who anticipates an incoming Spore will switch into a Tank they don't need (usually Ho-oh), and then switch into another Attacker. It is only IF I manage to put a counter to one of the sweepers that I usually run (Nasty Plot Calyrex-S and Geomancy Xerneas) that I am usually able to win.

I have to come to the conclusion that I have been approaching this the wrong way, and that I need to build my team around Pokemon that can check counters to Amoonguss, so that I don't have to sacrifice him (making Effect Spore unnecessary).

And Black Sludge over Leftovers was a very helpful suggestion.

I'm sure that there are other things that need to be fixed, and whenever you feel like giving me your next installment of advice, I will be ready to implement it.