Achieving Greatness [1000th Post RMT]

[Pulse]

There once was a time where I would just take any old sweeper and try build a team around it. Not a lot of synergy was in the team, and it showed in the battles. Sure I've built a couple good teams, but never have I reached the team that by my standards I can call great. And so I come to you to ask for help. This team is so close to greatness. It has fun, excitement, and unpredictability. Not only that, it wins. A lot. But, as with every team, there are changes to be made to better it. This is where you come in. I've written this RMT as good as I can so that I can receive the attention necessary to have some excellent rates. I've half-assed my last RMTs and I won't be doing that any longer. If I want a good quality rate, I need to work just as hard in my presentation of the team. So without further ado, I bring to you the squad.

Please read the closing words of this post before making your own post. Even if you just read the Pokémon's movesets and their descriptions, please read the last part.

(Changes are in bold.)

A Look at the Team

Bronzong @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 48 SpA / 128 SpD
Sassy nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Hypnosis
- Stealth Rock
- Grass Knot
- Gyro Ball

Ah Bronzong, how many times have you put those opposing Gengars right back to sleep? How often have you 2HKO’d unsuspecting Swamperts? And how often have you saved my ass from a Mamoswine sweep? Bronzong is probably the most solid Pokémon in the game and makes for a fantastic lead on this team. Swampert, as most of you know, is a very solid counter to Tyrantar. This is why Bronzong is packing Grass Knot. Swamperts usually set up Stealth Rock on turn one, either waiting for me to Hypnosis or for me to switch to a Grass type. However, after just one Grass Knot, Swampert will take around 75% damage, leaving it in no condition to counter Tyranitar. The EV spread could use a bit of explaining. The 48 Special Attack EVs give me a 100% 2HKO against Hippowdon with Stealth Rock out on the field. Even though I won’t usually get it with Slack Off, it means that Hippowdon cannot leave the field without about 50% of it’s health gone. As for the Attack and Special Defense, I just took what the analysis gave me. If anyone would like to give me some advice on how to split Special Defense and Attack, I’d appreciate it. However, like most tanks that lack recovery, Wish support is a must for Bronzong. If I expect it to counter the likes of SpecsMence, I better be able to get health back in the long run. Vaporeon provides just that.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Def / 40 SpA
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Wish
- Roar

Aside from Cresselia, I’ve found that Bronzong + Vaporeon provide for the best MixMence countering duo in the game. Not only that, but should I be pitted against a Gyarados lead, Vaporeon is one of the best counters in the game for it. Wish support is invaluable on this team; Bronzong, Tyranitar, and Magnezone all utilize the healing support to the fullest extent. Now you may be wondering why Tyranitar really benefits from the Wish support, considering it is my late game sweeper. Well, with Substitute and Crunch, I can fool the opponent into thinking I’m running a TyraniBoah set until the sweep is ready. Or, a case that has occurred a bit more often, I have to allow Tyranitar to take out Azelf with Crunch, getting hit with Grass Knot in the process. After taking a blow like that, Vaporeon’s Wish support is even more vital. Along with this, Vaporeon provides a solid Infernape switch-in and a good counter to Dragon Dance Salamence. Theres always times I wish I had Protect on the set; in my opinion it is an extremely underrated move and is especially useful on a Pokémon like Vaporeon with Wish.

Gliscor @ Leftovers / Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Roost
- Taunt / Knock Off / U-turn

Gliscor is arguably the greatest physical wall in the game, and it couldn’t fit in better for this team. Vaporeon and Bronzong both are obliterated by Heracross, and Tyranitar is going find it difficult to set up a sweep with a Heracross waiting on my opponent’s sidelines. The same can be said with Lucario; both are very dangerous to my team. Gliscor takes both of them out of the game. I’ve been doing a great deal of consideration in having Gliscor hold a Yache Berry to prevent a surprise sweep from a Hidden Power [Ice] SD Lucario. However, I have a feeling I’ll be sticking to Leftovers as in the long run it’ll probably be much more helpful. For the last attack I’ve been using Taunt to help against Breloom. The 56 Speed EVs allow me to outspeed max Speed Breloom. However, U-turn has also been a very cool move on Gliscor. With 100 Attack EVs, I will always break TyraniBoah’s Substitute, allowing me to come in on the Substiutute, U-turn to break the Substitute, and go to Vaporeon. Knock Off is always a reliable choice, but for now I’ll be sticking with Taunt.

I somewhat of a desire to switch this out for something more offensive. Gyarados or Salamence seem like good candidates, but adding them to the team would make the need of a Rapid Spinner even greater. I like Gliscor a lot as a Physical Wall, but I don’t want my team to be slowed down if there is a better option.

Roserade @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk) / Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Weather Ball
- Shadow Ball / Sleep Powder
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Roserade gives me a very fast special attacker, but the reason it is replacing Azelf is that it gives me something to absorb Toxic Spikes, which really screws over Vaporeon and Tyranitar. The drop in power hurts a bit, but Leaf Storm is a real bitch for my opponents. I'm using Shadow Ball to help out a bit when I need to take out a weakened Celebi. Is Timid really needed in a Garchomp-less metagame?

Machamp @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 238 Def / 4 Spe
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Dynamicpunch
- Ice Punch
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Gives me a way to handle Blissey, along with a reliable status absorber, something the team was missing before. With Garchomp out of the picture in the area I am battling, extra Tyranitar insurance is always appreciated.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Crunch

Power. Unpredictability. This is what a sweeper should hold, and this is exactly what this Tyranitar brings to this team. Substitute gives me two advantages over my opponent: surprise and protection. When a Substitute is thrown up from any Tyranitar, the first thing an opponent thinks it "TyraniBoah". So let's say they bring in Donphan or Gliscor (although they most likely have been taken out by now) when Substitute is used. Much of the time, a switch occurs. Even with knowledge of this set, I would probably make the same move. But unfortunately for the opponent, I'll have a Dragon Dance under my belt while they switch out. Speaking of Dragon Dance, the speed EVs allow me to outrun all base 95 Pokémon. This includes Adamant Garchomp. :) I have selected Stone Edge and Earthquake as my two attacks for a few reasons. First, I already have Magnezone to remove Bronzong from walling this set, which does a damn good job even if I'm running Crunch. Secondly, it's really nice to hit Zapdos for a OHKO instead of allowing it to stall me out with Sub+Roost, which has been gaining popularity lately. Honestly, I just love this thing to death. Since this is the central sweeper of the entire team, it is here to stay.

Crunch > Stone Edge to allow me to have better coverage along with acting as a TyraniBoah to throw my opponent off guard.

[B]Possible Changes:[/B]
- Jolly Gliscor to outspeed Lucario
-
-

Previous Members:

Azelf @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Rash nature (+SpA, -SpD)
- U-turn
- Psychic
- Fire Blast / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice] / Grass Knot
- Fire Blast / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power [Ice] / Grass Knot

Replaced by Roserade.

Ah Azelf… My speedy little revenge killer extraordinaire. Azelf gives me three things, the said role as a revenge killer, a strong special attacking force, and U-turn. With U-turn, I can scout their team and draw out Blissey. After the switch in, I can go to Tyranitar and Substitute up. Here is where the mind games come in… Now they think I’m a TyraniBoah. If this is early game, I will simply Crunch and wait to be phazed or switch out. This will make it easier to set up a DD sweep later in my match. Or, if it is already late game and I’ve taken out his counters, I will set up and sweep.

But enough about Tyranitar, onto Azelf… It has worked pretty well, but like Gliscor it is another member whose spot is in jeopardy. However, thus far I can’t think of anything that fits my team better. Fire Blast and Thunderbolt make for an amazing attacking combination, and Thunderbolt can help if Gyarados is able to set up when Vaporeon is dead.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Magnet Rise
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Grass]

Replaced by Machamp.

Magnezone provides me with a steel killer, something desperately needed on this team. Bronzong completely walls Tyranitar and Skarmory can phaze it away easily enough, so a steel killer is extremely important. I wish there were more to say here, so instead I’ll talk about my concerns with Magnezone. Now, I know it is not to be underestimated, but I’m not sure if it is right for the team. With Azelf being my only really fast Pokémon (and it is weak to Pursuit), I feel like I can juggle things around a bit. I know I’m being vague, but if I knew exactly how to handle this I wouldn’t be asking for help. Basically I want to give my team more speed without reducing the chance of a Tyranitar sweep.

Threat List
This is a list of Pokémon and how I usually handle them. Keep in mind that I am not claiming to be able to handle every threat; I can't. We can theorize as much as we want on paper but it changes dramatically in the battle. This is just to give you a look at what I do when I come across some common threats.
[

] Abomasnow – Abomasnow realy can’t do much to Bronzong except Leech Seed it. I have Tyranitar so Hail in general isn’t all that huge of a problem. Azelf can get in on an Ice Shard or Protect and OHKO with Fire Blast if it comes to that.

[

] Azelf – Azelf is tricky to maneuver against, but usually I can handle it. ScarfVersions are simply beat with prediction and switching. Bronzong can come in on Psychic / Grass Knot / Explosion, Vaporeon comes in on Flamethrower, and Gliscor comes in on Thunderbolt. For Nasty Plot versions, however, the situation depends on the set. If they are running Grass Knot, Tyranitar will have to switch in on Nasty Plot, take the hit and kill it with Stone Edge. If they’re running Hidden Power [Fighting], Vaporeon will have to do the dirty work. No matter what the set, however, I can always hurt it enough to have Azelf take it down in the end.

[

] Breloom – Breloom leads are gay. Gay because when I predict a Spore and use Hypnosis, they Substitute and when I predict a Substitute, they Spore. But if I can predict a Substitute before they can put anything to sleep, I’m in luck. Gliscor comes in and Taunts Breloom so it cannot use Spore and I’m free to kill it. Not really a huge deal, but it’s still gay as ever.

[

] Celebi – Not surprisingly, Celebi is gay. Natural Cure means I cannot put it to Sleep and be done with it, and without Crunch on Tyranitar I can’t just rely on him taking the little flower out. Basically I just annoy the hell out of it until its HP is low enough for Azelf to do something. Fire Blast averages around 75% against Celebi, which is the reason I’m using it over Flamethrower. However, should it miss I could be in deep shit. At least a +1 Stone Edge is a 2HKO.

[

] Deoxys-S – Bronzong completely and utterly rapes Deoxys-S. This is why Wish support is so key; so that I don’t get screwed over my a late-game Deoxys-S sweep. Vaporeon can take a Thunderbolt and often kill with Surf, and if worst comes to worst I can try and stall it out with LO + SS. I don’t understand why some people just allow Deoxys-S to walk over their team when switching around enough can wear it down.

[

] Dragonite – All three of my walls do a damn good job against Dragonite. On mixed LO sets, Bronzong can take the Draco Meteor and Vaporeon can come in to clean up the mess. DD sets are unable to take out Gliscor nor Vaporeon in one hit (even with +1 Attack) so I am usally safe there.

[

] Electivire – The only Electivire that I would consider “threatening” is the Mild LO Electivire. Bronzong does a decent job handling it, as it can live a Flamethrower and kill it with Earthquake. Like Deoxys, should Bronzong fall I can stall it out with SS and Life Orb as I have a resist for every attack it has.

[

] Gallade – Vaporeon handles Ice Punch, Gliscor handles Close Combat and Thunderpunch, Bronzong handles Psycho Cut and Stone Edge. CBGallade doesn’t realy have a true counter, but the defensive core I have set up can stop it.

[

] Garchomp – Now for the big surprise… I don’t care! The primary place I am using this team has Garchomp banned, and I have a feeling that Garchomp will soon be banned on Smogon too. However, even without planning for it, Bronzong + Vaporeon + Gliscor do a damn good job against Garchomp.

[

] Gengar – ScarfGar is OHKO’d by Gyro Ball and most often put to sleep from the getgo. Bronzong is my “Gengar counter”, but since SpecsGar is so powerful I have to rely on getting Tyranitar in on a Shadow Ball and just killing it.

[

] Gyarados – Vaporeon is my Gyarados counter, but if it is dead Azelf can get in on a Dragon Dance and Thunderbolt kill it.

[

] Heatran – Vaporeon is a really good Heatran counter… Bronzong can get in on predicted Earthpowers, but the most common Heatran is ReSTalk, who Vaporeon eats alive.

[

] Heracross – Gliscor is the closest thing to a Heracross counter in the game. If it has Swords Dance, I still can take it down with Azelf. But for the most part, Gliscor has Heracross 100% covered.

[

] Infernape – Vaporeon may not be the perfect Infernape counter, but it is one of the best.

[

] Kingdra – Kingdra needs to be worked around, as I don’t have a Milotic on this team. On the predicted Surf or Waterfall or Ice Beam, I go to Vaporeon. The obvious Draco Meteor follows, I switch to Bronzong. Now Draco Meteor does a pathetic 30% to Vaporeon and I can Wish my health back. Usually Kingdra helps more than it hurts, as Water Absorb makes it’s attacks useful in my favor.

[

] Lucario – SDLucario covered by Gliscor, but SpecsLuke is a beast. Honestly the best I can do is switch around for resistances and get Azelf in to revenge kill it. I do not know why SpecsLuke isn’t used more; it is seriously a beast.

[

] Machamp – Machamp doesn’t really have any counters, besides maybe Slowbro. Gliscor does a damn good job, though. Taunt prevents it from Resting or Sleep Talking so I can just pound it into the ground. If I can predict a Rest, Azelf can come in and Psychic (or more realistically U-turn on the switch for my advantage).

[

] Mamoswine – Bronzong is the best Mamoswine counter in the game, which is why he is on my team.

[

] Metagross – Bronzong can come in on Ice Punch, Earthquake, and if necessary Meteor Mash. Gliscor can take Thunderpunches all day, and Vaporeon can take a hit or two as well. But a well played Metagross could spell trouble for me. Magnezone is my best switch in on Meteor Mash, as it has a 4 times resist and I can just kill it off.

[

] Salamence – Almost all forms of Salamence are covered by my three walls. Choice Item Salemence are handled for the most party by Bronzong with a bit of help from Vaporeon. Gliscor can help against DDMences, and MixMence is picked apart by Bronzong and Vaporeon.

[

] Scizor – Gliscor and Bronzong for the most part can handle Scizor. It can take a nasty chunk out of Vaporeon’s health, so that isn’t something I want to do. If it has a CB, Magnezone can probably trap it and kill it.

[

] Snorlax – CurseLax is usually set up fodder for Tyranitar, as most can’t even touch Tyranitar. Or I can be smart and just have Gliscor Taunt it and be done with it.

[

] Togekiss – Togekiss can be a bitch. Usually I can put it to sleep with Bronzong, but like most Togekiss sets it depends on luck.

[

] Tyranitar – Bronzong resists most of what Tyranitar can throw at me, and Gliscor can stall out Stone Edges with Roost. Vaporeon and Bronzong handle TyraniBoah well enough.

[

] Weavile – Bronzong is a great Weavile counter and can live two hits from a Jolly CB Night Slash and live a +2 Life Orb Night Slash. Both times it will be OHKO’d with Gyro Ball.

[

] Yanmega – Lead Yanmega’s are put to sleep and hit with Gyro Ball. As for the late game sweeper, Vaporeon can take a Bug Buzz and kill it as a last resort.

----

Closing Words
If you couldn't tell already, the objective of this team is to set up a sweep for Tyranitar. Shit doesn't always go as planned, but thats why we play the game. I'm not posting this for my 1000th post because it is my best team or because I want 5 stars. I'm posting this as my 1000th post because in my stay at Smogon I have learned so much about team building that I only see it fit to post the team that I want to be my best team for my 1000th post. While I'm at it, I'd like to give out some shoutouts... zerowing for being my first tutor and the first person to really help me get a grasp on team building. Without this guy, I really would not amount to much as a battler. IggyBot has been an excellent mentor and a good friend. He helped me fine tune one of my best teams I've made and helped me really become a good battler. Taylor, I know we never talked much but the rates you've given me on my teams have been superb. Keep up the amazing work and congratulations on becoming a moderator; you deserve it. Anti, Ben, Bam, R2-D2, Dawn, Gin, Goodbar, kami, Expert Jeff, Thomaz, Noodle, Chronos, and everyone else who I've become great friends with at Smogon.. Thanks. :) You guys all rock.


Thank you for reading this long winded RMT and please post for your comments. Thank you Smogon. ;)

 

[King Of Hax]

Nice team Pulse.

I can't seem many problems with it, except maybe Yache DDnite.

I'm sure you could work around it though.

 

[Bam]

I'm going to keep editing this post as my next post is 1k and I'm going to be doing something special for that, so just look for "Edit:"s...

Holy freaking crap I just wrote up like 45 minutes worth of stuff and then accidentally hit a key combination, erasing everything. At least some of it is in notepad :(. I'll edit my post in here.

First I'll just point out an error. You state in Gliscor's part that 100 Atk EVs allows U-turn to always break Boah's sub (wonder where you got that idea :P), but you have 0 Atk EVs in the spread.

As for the Atk/SpD on Bronzong, I myself run Sassy with max HP/188 SpDef so that I'm only 3HKOd by ChainChomp's Fire Blast, letting me Explode or do a good deal back with Gyro Ball (or even Hypnosis if I haven't activated Sleep Clause). It also lets you tank special hits better, especially those STAB neutral attacks like Starmie's Surf. Grass Knot on Brozong is cool; in a similar way to the Uxie I run, it's completely unexpected and makes a great counter, especially to any CursePerts you run into (urg, no more CursePert sweeps for me =\..).

On Gliscor, I find that just outspeeding neutral-natured base 90s more than makes up for the small loss in Def. After I got tired of eating HP Ices from Lucario, I just up and bred a Jolly Gliscor, outspeeding even Adamant Chomp. It still takes hits pretty well, taking around 46% max from CBHera's Stone Edge, and a good deal less from Scarf Hera's. It also allows you to outspeed Heracross should it run the SD Facade set, letting you get in a hit or two before you die a miserable death (just for the record, that Hera set beats 252/252 Impish Gliscor too).

On Azelf, I would most definately run HP Ice if at all possible. I used ScarfElf on my last team, and although a supafast Explosion/U-turn is great (U-turn not so much), without HP Ice it just isn't as good. If you can't, then Fire Blast/Grass Knot works the best in my experience. If Gyara runs EQ/Ice Fang, then Vappy can take it on with no problem, and if it runs Waterfall/Stone Edge, then Magnezone can switch in on a DD and either OHKO or cause it to switch, so Thunderbolt isn't really necessary on Azelf.

I don't have much to say on the last two members of your team - HP Ice would be much more useful on Maggy than HP Grass, as Rhyperior and Swampert are handled easily by Bronzong (and Vaporeon to an extent). The Tyranitar set is pretty cool, I can definitely see its usefulness.

You say you can counter Scizor with Gliscor/Bronzong/Magnezone, but it can beat all three, especially with the SD set. +2 LO Iron Head 2HKOs Gliscor, +2 Brick Break/X-Scissor 2HKOs Bronzong, and +2 Brick Break OHKOs Magnezone, and that's that. +2 Quick Attack also OHKO's Azelf with SR out, so if your opponent runs Jibaku's SD set (the one I run, SD/Brick Break/Metal Claw/Quick Attack), it can potentially take out all three. However, with LO recoil and other various damage, Scizor can't last forever, so if you can keep predicting correctly (without letting it get another SD or two in the process), then you should be able to wear it down to the point where you can OHKO it with Earthquake or Thunderbolt.

I also like (and might steal) your RMT format, good job with that ;). [still editing stuff in]

Edit: Regarding what KD24 has typed in about Zapdos, I don't really see the reasoning behind it (no offense meant KD24). If you switch in Tyranitar and Sub while your opponent switches in Gliscor, they're almost sure to switch out for fear of Ice Beam. That gives you the oppurtunity to get a two Dragon Dances before by the time it switches back in, guaranteeing you a 2HKO with Stone Edge (even if you miss due to accuracy or Sand Veil, you basically have three turns to hit him as you outspeed and he has to break your sub first). Trying to BP a Substitute to Tyranitar not only gives away your strategy, but it gives your opponent a chance to set up while doing so.

but if they have Gliscor in, they won't switch fearing Boah.

That doesn't really make any sense...

 

[kd24]

First I will help you decide exactly what to use for your team off these slashes and whatnot. First is Gliscor:


Right now you have Taunt as your attack but I feel you could do so much better. Considering that Magnezone traps a lot of pokemon, why risk them running Shed Shell. The beauty of running Knock Off on Gliscor, is that it benefits you in 2 ways: 1, No more Shed Shells, and 2, Sandstorm hurts mostly everything because leftovers will be kncoked off. Besides Knock off, also beats that Yache Chomp, Specs Water type and allow you to survive, ect. I was about to recommend replacing yache with lefties until I saw the note with Lucario and I have to agree with you. This team is going to be taken apart by SD, HP Ice, Close Combat, and Extremespeed. So if someone says get rid of it ... dont listen to them!

Bronzong would much have Lum Berry, because nothing on your team really can absorb sleep so you have to make sure Hypnosis Gengar doesnt completely screw you over. If you can you could run 4 speed evs, as it will practically guarentee you to beat other bronzongs while still having max power on gyro ball.

My one question on Tar is how are you going to set up Substitute + Dragon Dance without an encorer or at least a baton passer? I see that you plan on making them think it is boah, but if they have gliscor in, they wont switch fearing boah. No there plan will be to make sure you dont get a free sub if it is boah, or potentially cripple you. Which is why I look at Azelf and I say ... he could be something so much more.

I think we must look at Zapdos who would fit rather nicely into this team. Substitute, Baton Pass, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Grass could work so well. Takes out swampert who should be a main concern. But it also draws ice and rock attacks, allowing Lucario or Tyranitar set up with ease as they have a Sub passed to them. So then I start to wonder; Does Tyranitar function to his greatest extent with this set? I feel he does not. Lets not forget that with your current spread, his speed wont be high enough to beat some pokemon such as Nape and Weavile. So why not rely on constant subs and a Salac Berry? How does this work? Well I would plan it like this:

1. Zapdos passes sub to Tar.
2. Tar DD's while they switch to their Tar counter
3. Tar continue to subs while they attack. If you are faster DD, once more then continue your subbing plan.
4. Get down where Salac activates giving you hopefully +2 attack and + 3 speed, meaning you will outpace deoxys and scarfchomp.

I think it works for this team. I really think it does. Azelf just is trying to kill a few threats that would be killed by other pokemon anyway.

Now another threat is obviously Garchomp. The ZapTar combo might eventually kill him as you will have enough speed but Magnezone should be able to as well. Hidden Power Ice would be the much better option there.

Team synergy looks great though and will look even better if you include Zapdos.

Congrats on 1k ;D

 

[King Of Hax]

Garchomp isn't a threat, because as he said before, where he's battling, Chomp is uber.

 

[Pulse]

Holy freaking crap I just wrote up like 45 minutes worth of stuff and then accidentally hit a key combination, erasing everything. At least some of it is in notepad :(. I'll edit my post in here.

I appreciate you making such a nice post and putting the effort into it. :)

First I'll just point out an error. You state in Gliscor's part that 100 Atk EVs allows U-turn to always break Boah's sub (wonder where you got that idea :P), but you have 0 Atk EVs in the spread.

I got that idea myself... So no I don't know what you're talking about. And it was just an if I was using U-turn.

As for the Atk/SpD on Bronzong, I myself run Sassy with max HP/188 SpDef so that I'm only 3HKOd by ChainChomp's Fire Blast, letting me Explode or do a good deal back with Gyro Ball (or even Hypnosis if I haven't activated Sleep Clause). It also lets you tank special hits better, especially those STAB neutral attacks like Starmie's Surf. Grass Knot on Brozong is cool; in a similar way to the Uxie I run, it's completely unexpected and makes a great counter, especially to any CursePerts you run into (urg, no more CursePert sweeps for me =\..).

I think I'll test that out. I just need to drag 60 Atk EVs into SpD and bam. :) Thanks.

On Gliscor, I find that just outspeeding neutral-natured base 90s more than makes up for the small loss in Def. After I got tired of eating HP Ices from Lucario, I just up and bred a Jolly Gliscor, outspeeding even Adamant Chomp. It still takes hits pretty well, taking around 46% max from CBHera's Stone Edge, and a good deal less from Scarf Hera's. It also allows you to outspeed Heracross should it run the SD Facade set, letting you get in a hit or two before you die a miserable death (just for the record, that Hera set beats 252/252 Impish Gliscor too).

I think I'll run some calcs on this to see if it is worth it. Not sure at the moment, but knowing that Heracross still does under 50% is nice to know.

On Azelf, I would most definately run HP Ice if at all possible. I used ScarfElf on my last team, and although a supafast Explosion/U-turn is great (U-turn not so much), without HP Ice it just isn't as good. If you can't, then Fire Blast/Grass Knot works the best in my experience. If Gyara runs EQ/Ice Fang, then Vappy can take it on with no problem, and if it runs Waterfall/Stone Edge, then Magnezone can switch in on a DD and either OHKO or cause it to switch, so Thunderbolt isn't really necessary on Azelf.

And if Gyarados has 252 Attack with Ice Fang or Stone Edge / Waterfall / Earthquake and gets a crit with Earthquake on Vaporeon? Plus, theres no saying that Vaporeon will always be around for a late game Gyarados sweep, which I've been seeing much more of lately. HP Ice would be nice, but I think I have plenty of Dragon insurance already.

I don't have much to say on the last two members of your team - HP Ice would be much more useful on Maggy than HP Grass, as Rhyperior and Swampert are handled easily by Bronzong (and Vaporeon to an extent). The Tyranitar set is pretty cool, I can definitely see its usefulness.

Thanks! :D

You say you can counter Scizor with Gliscor/Bronzong/Magnezone, but it can beat all three, especially with the SD set. +2 LO Iron Head 2HKOs Gliscor, +2 Brick Break/X-Scissor 2HKOs Bronzong, and +2 Brick Break OHKOs Magnezone, and that's that. +2 Quick Attack also OHKO's Azelf with SR out, so if your opponent runs Jibaku's SD set (the one I run, SD/Brick Break/Metal Claw/Quick Attack), it can potentially take out all three. However, with LO recoil and other various damage, Scizor can't last forever, so if you can keep predicting correctly (without letting it get another SD or two in the process), then you should be able to wear it down to the point where you can OHKO it with Earthquake or Thunderbolt.

Yea, Scizor is a threat but can be worked around. Plus, when you're saying 2HKO, 2HKO, 2HKO, you seem to forget that it will be taking a lot of damage in the process. Plus, the only Pokémon I can see it really setting up a SD undamaged on is Bronzong, who can Hypnosis it and remove it.

Thanks!

--------------

Now onto the team itself, now that I cleared that up. First I will help you decide exactly what to use for your team off these slashes and whatnot. First is Gliscor:

Right now you have Taunt as your attack but I feel you could do so much better. Considering that Magnezone traps a lot of pokemon, why risk them running Shed Shell. The beauty of running Knock Off on Gliscor, is that it benefits you in 2 ways: 1, No more Shed Shells, and 2, Sandstorm hurts mostly everything because leftovers will be kncoked off. Besides Knock off, also beats that Yache Chomp, Specs Water type and allow you to survive, ect. I was about to recommend replacing yache with lefties until I saw the note with Lucario and I have to agree with you. This team is going to be taken apart by SD, HP Ice, Close Combat, and Extremespeed. So if someone says get rid of it ... dont listen to them!

This is what I wanted to test when I was talking about calcs to Bam's post. I want to compare my hit taking ability with Leftovers and Jolly vs. Yache Berry and Impish. I do have Roost, but that only means so much if I start getting 2HKO'd. Though I can see Yache Berry coming in handy a lot. Eh... it's a toss up. I'll have to try out both. As for Taunt vs. Knock Off, I've been doing great with Taunt. Even if I can't stop Skarmory from escaping with Shed Shell, Taunt can stop it from doing much to begin with. Hell I can even bring in Tyranitar against Skarmory if it can't even Whirlwind (just kidding, probably wouldn't do that). But as always, I will test everything you ask of it. I owe you that for the post.

Bronzong would much have Lum Berry, because nothing on your team really can absorb sleep so you have to make sure Hypnosis Gengar doesnt completely screw you over. If you can you could run 4 speed evs, as it will practically guarentee you to beat other bronzongs while still having max power on gyro ball.

Yup, I've been running Lum Berry ever since I have been using Bronzong. Works so amazing thanks to Wish support, allowing me to worry less about Leftovers gain.

I think we must look at Zapdos who would fit rather nicely into this team. Substitute, Baton Pass, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power Grass could work so well. Takes out swampert who should be a main concern. But it also draws ice and rock attacks, allowing Lucario or Tyranitar set up with ease as they have a Sub passed to them. So then I start to wonder; Does Tyranitar function to his greatest extent with this set? I feel he does not. Lets not forget that with your current spread, his speed wont be high enough to beat some pokemon such as Nape and Weavile. So why not rely on constant subs and a Salac Berry? How does this work? Well I would plan it like this:

1. Zapdos passes sub to Tar.
2. Tar DD's while they switch to their Tar counter
3. Tar continue to subs while they attack. If you are faster DD, once more then continue your subbing plan.
4. Get down where Salac activates giving you hopefully +2 attack and + 3 speed, meaning you will outpace deoxys and scarfchomp.

I think it works for this team. I really think it does. Azelf just is trying to kill a few threats that would be killed by other pokemon anyway.

I like the idea, so let me see if I can break this down as much as I can. First off, I promise I will test it and not disregard the idea, but I'll start off by saying that Azelf has proven very useful. No matter how much theorymon we do, something can always go wrong. That is the beauty of a revenge killer; the extra insurance is amazing. If I lose Azelf, not only do I get rid of the revenge killer, but what happens if Tyranitar goes down? Not only am I left with my fastest Pokémon being base speed 100, but it isn't even a sweeper. Now, another spot I can test this in is over Magnezone. Obvoiusly this means I lost my guaranteed Bronzong kill, but I still am able to kill him in one way or another. Vaporeon beats it 1 v. 1, Bronzong sleeps it, Azelf Fire Blasts it, Zapdos Thunderbolts it, and Gliscor can Taunt or Knock Off depending on what I choose to do.

But like I said, I'll test it. We can theorize all we want here, but it won't mean a thing if I don't test it myself on the field, which I will do.

Now another threat is obviously Garchomp. The ZapTar combo might eventually kill him as you will have enough speed but Magnezone should be able to as well. Hidden Power Ice would be the much better option there.

Heh, read the Garchomp note on the threat list. But with my testing on Shoddy, where Garchomp still runs rampant, I was still able to handle it really well without having it in my mind when building the team.

Team synergy looks great though and will look even better if you include Zapdos.

Congrats on 1k ;D

Thanks! Loved your warstory man. Gotta admit your 1K was better than mine, but I just wanted to share my Tyranitar set. And I feel that your suggestions will really help the sweep come easier.

 

[zukirin]

At frist I thought I saw a Dugtrio weakness that would be able to take out TTar but you will usually always have a sub up, so that is not a concern. Wobbuffet is banned in that "other" site so that is not a concern. The only potential threat I see is from Infernape if somehow it gets a NP up but that even then Azelf can just outspeed and ko.

I do sorta agree with the idea that setting up sub with TTar is not always entirely possible.

Otherwise this is a great team as always :D

 

[Pulse]

Thanks for the post zuk. :)

The only potential threat I see is from Infernape if somehow it gets a NP up but that even then Azelf can just outspeed and ko.

Vaporeon lives a Nasty Plot'd Grass Knot and KO's with Surf.

I do sorta agree with the idea that setting up sub with TTar is not always entirely possible.

Uh.. Do you mean baton passing a sub with Zapdos? Becuase TTar can set up Substitutes extremely easily; thats like saying TyraniBoah doesn't function.

Otherwise this is a great team as always :D

Thanks again man.

 

[Bourbon]

Very nice team, though I personally think Crunch is better than Stone Edge on Tyranitar, because it hits Swampert, Celebi, and Bronzong much harder.


Is this "place" where Garchomp is banned perhaps on Serebii... do you have an alt there that I don't know about?

 

[Pulse]

Is this "place" where Garchomp is banned perhaps on Serebii... do you have an alt there that I don't know about?

It isn't Serebii, it's a site called PokéBeach that I've been helping out a lot at. Plus, I have a feeling that Garchomp will be banned in more than just PokéBeach pretty soon... And yes, I may test out Crunch on Tyranitar as it allows me to actually have two moves that could make my opponent believe I am running a Boah set, which is useful in the midgame to throw them off guard.

 

[Bourbon]

Yeah, but in your description of Tyranitar, you said you could fake being Boah by using Crunch and Substitute... but your curretn build doesn't have Crunch. Definately go for Crunch, because if your opponent thinks you are Boah, you could likely get 2 DDs before they know what's happening, and then it's GG.

Anyways, good luck and happy 1000. I forgot to do stuff for my 1000 and 2000 post mark... : |

 

[COCKBLOCK]

If you want to add more speed to your party, you can try adding this Magnezone I've been using for a while now. Thank TAY for this spread <3

"Magnezone @ Life Orb
Naive Nature (+Speed -SpDef)
Ability: Magnet Pull
252 Speed / 160 SpAtk / 96 Atk
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Magnet Rise
-Explosion

The extra speed frequently catches Gliscors, Adamant Brelooms, and other somewhat fast pokes off guard, and the drop in SpAtk EV's is negligible due to life orb. After it kills Zong, Skarm, etc, Explosion allows this generally not-so-useful poke to score an extra kill which could send the game's pace in your favor. It OHKO's Blissey with 96 Atk, and it's a nasty surprise for Yache Garchomps who think they can Swords Dance in your face."

Exact quotes from TAY when he/she posted in one of my RMT's, again I thank TAY for this spread <3

I'm going to give you my same reasons for using this Magnezone. Honestly, Magnezone, on your team, doesn't have a bigger purpose outside of eliminating Steels and possibly Yanmega. With your current spread, it won't be outspeeding Breloom who can give this team some problems once under a Sub (and of course if Gliscor is gone). But I'm sure your prediction can pull through. I don't want to go into too much detail, all I'm saying is that you can bring more purposes for Magnezone with this spread. But of course if you prefer the more defensive Steel killing set (Defensive meaning having Substitute) then you can stick with that.

Hope this helps (hopefully no typos take place in my statement)
<3

 

[Pulse]

First, thanks for the post. ^_^ Magnezone has been performing extremely well and the Substitute has been extremely useful. I don't think I'll be changing it up, sorry.

Breloom who can give this team some problems once under a Sub (and of course if Gliscor is gone).

See, this kind of response is hard to take seriously. If your counter is gone, you'll have problems with something. That can be said for anything, and something like Breloom can be handled with good prediction. But once again, thanks for posting.

 

[COCKBLOCK]

First, thanks for the post. ^_^ Magnezone has been performing extremely well and the Substitute has been extremely useful. I don't think I'll be changing it up, sorry.

See, this kind of response is hard to take seriously. If your counter is gone, you'll have problems with something. That can be said for anything, and something like Breloom can be handled with good prediction. But once again, thanks for posting.

Yeah you're right, how clumsy of me to say that. Well alright, that Magnezone been doing good for you, so keep it. ^_^

I think I can see some CM Suicune weakness (with HP Electric that is), as Vaporeon won't be doing any good damage back, and with enough Calm Minds, neither will Magnezone. But you know, that's pretty much all I can see, pretty much just Bulky Waters giving you some trouble, but Magnezone will be fine for non-CM based Waters. Maybe Yawn can be an option on Vaporeon? But like I said earlier, I'll leave everything up to you, and this is a nice team overall. Changing a few pokemon can leave you wide open to much bigger threats. Nice team <3

 

[Pulse]

I think I can see some CM Suicune weakness (with HP Electric that is), as Vaporeon won't be doing any good damage back, and with enough Calm Minds, neither will Magnezone. But you know, that's pretty much all I can see, pretty much just Bulky Waters giving you some trouble, but Magnezone will be fine for non-CM based Waters. Maybe Yawn can be an option on Vaporeon? But like I said earlier, I'll leave everything up to you, and this is a nice team overall. Changing a few pokemon can leave you wide open to much bigger threats. Nice team <3

Yea, I think I might've mentioned the CMCune weakness. The best I can do is put it to sleep with Bronzong and hit it hard with Magnezone. I'd say Suicune is my number one weakness, though there isn't a lot I can do to it. Roar on Vaporeon could work, but I'm not sure where I'd fit it in.

 

[Zephiel]

Looks very similar to the team I posted before, but I had Garchomp over Azelf which is much better in my opinion because it makes Magnezone have a point instead of only Tyranitar and Garchomp works well with Tyranitar.

To help counter Suicune you could put Light Screen on Bronzong and give Roar over Ice Beam on Vaporeon. Bronzong and Gliscor should be enough to stop Garchomp.

 

[Pulse]

I think I vaguely remember seeing your team... Fire Emblem one right? That was a pretty nice team Zephiel. I'll test out a few physical sweeper ideas in Azelf's spot, but I'm pretty sure Azelf's solidified its place on the team with all the revenge kills and insurance it supplies. However, I think I'll try running Roar on Vaporeon over Ice Beam. We'll see how it does.

 

[Zephiel]

Magnezone is only there for Tyranitar, I don't really like that (not counting stopping Skarmory and Forretress using Spikes) so that's why I suggest to get the use out of Magnezone more by adding Garchomp.

Then again if you want a revenge killer Deoxys-S over Magnezone and Garchomp over Azelf could work (I'll test this soon). Deoxys-S can also force walls to switch out so he can be useful.

 

[Pulse]

Magnezone is only there for Tyranitar, I don't really like that (not counting stopping Skarmory and Forretress using Spikes) so that's why I suggest to get the use out of Magnezone more by adding Garchomp.

Then again if you want a revenge killer Deoxys-S over Magnezone and Garchomp over Azelf could work (I'll test this soon). Deoxys-S can also force walls to switch out so he can be useful.

Heh, well check the threat list and read what I have for Garchomp... ;) I could always try Bronzong / Vaporeon / Gliscor / Deoxys-E / Lucario / Tyranitar as well. Seems like it could work.

 

[Pulse]

This'll be my first and final bump. I'm happy that my 1000th thread got this much views, thats enough for me. But for the sake of the team, I thought it deserved one last chance.. :)

 

[remix01]

Hey bro, awesome team. CMCune can get you pretty hard if you don't play it right though.

You always were good at teams though

 

[Pulse]

Thanks man. I will be testing Roar on Vaporeon to help with Suicune. :)

 

[imperfectluck]

Toxic Spikes is the bane of Vaporeon and Tyranitar both, unfortunately you can't really change your team setup to incorporate Rapid Spin easily, if you're looking for a fast special sweeper then I suggest possibly using Scarf Roserade over Azelf to cover your Toxic Spikes.

 

[Pulse]

Toxic Spikes is the bane of Vaporeon and Tyranitar both, unfortunately you can't really change your team setup to incorporate Rapid Spin easily, if you're looking for a fast special sweeper then I suggest possibly using Scarf Roserade over Azelf to cover your Toxic Spikes.

Heh, I'm surprised you were the first person to notice (or at least point out) the gaping weakness to Toxic Spikes. Yea, they really screw over Tyranitar and wreck Vaporeon's ability to counter a lot of threats, so I think a ScarfRoserade would be worth a shot. ^_^ Thanks IPL, anymore suggestions?

 

[Stallion]

This is a pretty solid team imo. However, my one gripe with this team is its inability to deal with Blissey. Tyranitar can beat it but once it is gone, your entire team loses to it. Another huge problem is that Blissey is a staple of stall teams, which run Toxic Spikes all the time. IPL mentioned how Tyranitar hates Toxic Spikes, so this means you are even more weak to Blissey. I also second Roserade's replacement and also believe that Magnezone could be replaced. If Garchomp was your primary sweeper I'd say keep it, but as it is Steels aren't that big a threat to you, so I say replace it with something else that can beat Blissey. ScarfHera/CBHera, Mixape, Machamp, it is up to your discretion.
Hope I helped.