That's weird, because I've seen Outrages continue when Fairies are switched into them. I guess the foe was Choiced and just too stupid to switch out.
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Other A Metagame Without Weather
- Thread starter SomeoneStoleTheNameIWant
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That wasn't on PS. I'm guessing now that it was a Choiced AI.
So, uhhh... how's the weather?
Less annoying than a year ago, that's for sure.
I'd have to agree there. A much more diverse metagame is in our future. Finally.
Do you guys think the whole weather nerf will apply to Kyogre and Groudon? I mean, they have the same abilities, so I assume so, but you can't be too sure til Pokemon Bank opens up.
I was thinking about this, actually. I can see them gaining some new abilities, something like Downpour and Scorch, giving them their unlimited weather abilities to remain happy happy in ubers. Don't know if it will actually happen, though.
My apologies if I've missed this but, one thing I've wondered about these new weather teams is this: let's say you throw out a Politoed, or any other weather inducer for that matter. Does the weather effect reset once the weather user is removed and thrown in again? Could you thereby make an infinite weather effect, although perhaps predictable, if you switched in from time to time with the weather inducer?
Nope, you cant do the same with manual weather and auto-weather works the same.
Further to what Project_Mars said, even if you could, you could easily crush the inducer through prediction then.
I think it's a good move in retrospect. However, I do feel Hail should not have gotten the nerf, and although Hail!=/= Ice types!, anything benefitting Ice types, being nerfed in the long run probably should have been avoided. Even if Nintendo /Game Freak aren't exactly on the same level of understanding balance as some of us would like.
Say you bring Drizzletoad on turn one. You have to call it back immediately because your opponent saw right through you and led with Rotom-W.
After a couple of turns have passed, you bring Politoed in again on the last turn of rain. Drizzle will not activate again while rain is still up. This means that you bring Slippy in, it takes a hit and then you get the sad message that rain has stopped.
This forces you to at least have a turn without rain and makes your switch into Politoed predictable after the rain stops. Good weather teams that want to still caryy the toad will need to carry another manual rain setter, maybe Kingdra or another Pokemon that can immediately enjoy the boost its own rain has provided.
Im glad weather got nerfed , super nerfed . Even tho I did have fun spamming bboosted specs hydro pump Nd 100% acc thunder . It was all about winning the damn weather war . Now I think its gona be more of saving your mega mon for the right time to sweep kinda thing . As for veusaur and toxicraok I think they will drop because they winter be able to abuse their abilities which made them ou in the first place . Oh and the weather rocks make weather last 10 turns now so mane it still will be used somewhat . But now you cant just let your weather starter just die, it will take more strategy to keep your weather up .
You know, this could almost be an improvement for sand stall. It's not particularly dependent on the sandstorm damage on the other team, but stuff like Celebi and Jellicent will definitely appreciate being able to stall without that residual damage.
Thanks for the clarification, everyone. This means I need to revamp my team layout.
Probably. But why would you really care? It is going to be quite mediocre without that superb recovery...
And midway through writing that I remembered Tail Glow...
Ok, it might be something. I don't know how viable, but definitely something.
I still use my T-Tar, but thats mostly because hes a beast even without Sandstorm up. I have been using him to check Charizard Y's weather and a few other weather starters. I am still seeing some weather here and there, not as much, but its out there.
Now, Rain teams I feel are gonna be mostly dead now, sand will still be fairly viable, but not the same as it once was, and Hail will be very rare.
Sun teams I feel will be condemned to random wifi battles where Charizard Y has a better chance to shine on a 3v3 level.
Please note: I am not the most skilled player, and this is all in my opinion.
Now, Rain teams I feel are gonna be mostly dead now, sand will still be fairly viable, but not the same as it once was, and Hail will be very rare.
Sun teams I feel will be condemned to random wifi battles where Charizard Y has a better chance to shine on a 3v3 level.
Please note: I am not the most skilled player, and this is all in my opinion.
Seems like sand is going to the best weather this gen, which it was in 5th gen anyway imo. Even without the perma weather, the threats that come with sand are less weather reliant than the other weathers. In addition the inducer is still great, and gets it's own mega. Sand teams so far for me have been the best answer for aegislash, one of the most common threats of the new metagame. Rain really wants it's 5 turns, due to the sheer amount of abusers on one team that are so reliant on it. Anyways, this just my opinion, and not much of a good player.
I wouldn't say this is going to be a weatherless metagame, it's more that weather has been brought back down to a strategy on the same level as things like Trick Room and Gravity: Not a sure thing by any means, but potentially very rewarding.
Nobody has really been talking about Sun teams from what I can see, but there have been some significant changes to this playstyle.
Ninetales: Will-o-Wisp has received a very nice buff, which Ninetales has always been very good at using with her ample speed and bulk. As a status platform (and with proper rapid spin/defog support,) she can switch in multiple times over the course of the game, starting sun and crippling physical threats. However, not all is good for her; with the nerf to infinite weather, running Heat Rock can be very tempting, but Ninetales really misses Leftovers/Protect recovery. I'd love her to get Morning Sun as an egg move, but I'm not hopeful. With Politoed becoming less viable, Ninetales can also afford to run Solarbeam for added coverage.
Charizard-Y: With an astronomical Special Attack combined with a workable Special Defense, Charizard-Y functions as a much more offensive sun setter. With Sun up, Charizard can even afford to attack with fire both specially and physically, and will hit like a freight train either way, breaking through special sponges and defensive walls alike. Unfortunately, this uses the Mega slot, so I can't see Ninetales and Charizard-Y running on the same team as dual setters like Hippodown and T-Tar. Lack of variation in coverage, and poor defensive typings simply make that a really bad career move. However, on the subject of the mega slot...
MegaHoundoom: If MegaCharizard-Y hits like a freight train, Houndoom hits like a nuclear bomb. If you can switch in and wall a fire type, picking up a Flash Fire boost, and then Nasty Plot on the switch, you can incinerate half a team before sun runs out. Due to Solar Power reducing health, you're going to want to either get the job done quickly, or consider having Wish support. But on the upside, you have a lot of good synergy with pokemon such as...
Whimsicott/Jumpluff: These two grass puffballs have both received buffs to their usability as Sunny Day setters, with Whimsicott sporting an added Fairy type, and Jumpluff possessing slightly boosted special bulk. Both sport Memento and a way to use it before their opponent (Prankster/Chlorophyll), making them fantastic suicide sun setters (and great lures to fire type attacks for MegaHoundoom!) to get in, cause some trouble, set up Sun then bring in something else for seven turns of murder. In addition to this, they have great support options such as Sleep Powder, Encore, Leech Seed...All isn't good for them though, as a lot of their item options are going to be foregone in favor of Heat Rock.
Heliolisk: With the hidden ability of Solar Power, Heliolisk adds some much needed variety to the makeup of a Sun team, and can operate as a very nice Volt Switching scarf user, with fantastic coverage options.
Trevenant: With Harvest, Trevenant can be a very solid wall with Lum/Rest, or even Leech Seed/Sitrus. Unfortunately, due to the time limit on Sun, his ability may have just come a little bit too late to be of any importance.
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As far as I can see, the Weather game has indeed shifted towards 'do as much damage as you can with the short time you have available', which makes abusers such as Solar Power users and Chlorophyll sweepers much more relevant, at the expense of walling capabilities (Ninetales used to be able to take Scalds like an absolute champ, and heal it off with Leftovers/Protect: with the limited time of Sun, I don't see this happening as much anymore.) With proper support, however; say, a cleric like Sylveon or Florges, you can switch in Solar Power users repeatedly and burn holes in teams over a very short time.
Nobody has really been talking about Sun teams from what I can see, but there have been some significant changes to this playstyle.
Ninetales: Will-o-Wisp has received a very nice buff, which Ninetales has always been very good at using with her ample speed and bulk. As a status platform (and with proper rapid spin/defog support,) she can switch in multiple times over the course of the game, starting sun and crippling physical threats. However, not all is good for her; with the nerf to infinite weather, running Heat Rock can be very tempting, but Ninetales really misses Leftovers/Protect recovery. I'd love her to get Morning Sun as an egg move, but I'm not hopeful. With Politoed becoming less viable, Ninetales can also afford to run Solarbeam for added coverage.
Charizard-Y: With an astronomical Special Attack combined with a workable Special Defense, Charizard-Y functions as a much more offensive sun setter. With Sun up, Charizard can even afford to attack with fire both specially and physically, and will hit like a freight train either way, breaking through special sponges and defensive walls alike. Unfortunately, this uses the Mega slot, so I can't see Ninetales and Charizard-Y running on the same team as dual setters like Hippodown and T-Tar. Lack of variation in coverage, and poor defensive typings simply make that a really bad career move. However, on the subject of the mega slot...
MegaHoundoom: If MegaCharizard-Y hits like a freight train, Houndoom hits like a nuclear bomb. If you can switch in and wall a fire type, picking up a Flash Fire boost, and then Nasty Plot on the switch, you can incinerate half a team before sun runs out. Due to Solar Power reducing health, you're going to want to either get the job done quickly, or consider having Wish support. But on the upside, you have a lot of good synergy with pokemon such as...
Whimsicott/Jumpluff: These two grass puffballs have both received buffs to their usability as Sunny Day setters, with Whimsicott sporting an added Fairy type, and Jumpluff possessing slightly boosted special bulk. Both sport Memento and a way to use it before their opponent (Prankster/Chlorophyll), making them fantastic suicide sun setters (and great lures to fire type attacks for MegaHoundoom!) to get in, cause some trouble, set up Sun then bring in something else for seven turns of murder. In addition to this, they have great support options such as Sleep Powder, Encore, Leech Seed...All isn't good for them though, as a lot of their item options are going to be foregone in favor of Heat Rock.
Heliolisk: With the hidden ability of Solar Power, Heliolisk adds some much needed variety to the makeup of a Sun team, and can operate as a very nice Volt Switching scarf user, with fantastic coverage options.
Trevenant: With Harvest, Trevenant can be a very solid wall with Lum/Rest, or even Leech Seed/Sitrus. Unfortunately, due to the time limit on Sun, his ability may have just come a little bit too late to be of any importance.
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As far as I can see, the Weather game has indeed shifted towards 'do as much damage as you can with the short time you have available', which makes abusers such as Solar Power users and Chlorophyll sweepers much more relevant, at the expense of walling capabilities (Ninetales used to be able to take Scalds like an absolute champ, and heal it off with Leftovers/Protect: with the limited time of Sun, I don't see this happening as much anymore.) With proper support, however; say, a cleric like Sylveon or Florges, you can switch in Solar Power users repeatedly and burn holes in teams over a very short time.
This has actually been disproven. The weather rocks make weather last 8 turns just like they always did. Not 10.
I really don't think Politoed is going to be used very much. On Rain Offense, it'll really only be good as a Choice Specs user as someone stated above as there are (or will be) better options for Scarfers. Politoed can't really afford to waste time trying to revenge kill something as opposed to Specs Hydro Pump actually damaging a wall somewhat. Scarf would only work if you planned on doing double switches every game, which isn't always optimal. Speaking of Hydro Pump, it does slightly less damage on average than Surf now even with both attacks getting nerfed. So, it may not even be worth it to run Hydro Pump. I did see a Rain Stall team sporting defensive Politoed in this new meta though and it seemed to work just fine.
Tyranitar still sees use but there aren't too many Sandstorm specific teams out there right now. The only Politoed I've seen has been mine and tbh idet it's worth running anymore, however Damp Rock Thundurus has been amazing in keeping my rain up. I don't even spam Thunder and instead run a bulky-ish set with T-Wave, Rain Dance, Volt Switch, HP Water. I've yet to come across a single Ninetales or Sunny Day user out of ~200 ladder matches.
The problem with weather before wasn't really the Swift Swim ability, or Sand Rush. It was the permanent x1.5 bonus to water or fire type moves. It skyrockets so many otherwise manageable offensive threats into almost uncounterable levels of damage. Even a puny scald can end up doing just unreasonable damage when there's STAB and rainbost and burn chance involved. I think the way weather works now is much more appropriate, and changes the view of the weather starters. Politoed and ninetales still have their uses, even without a damp rock, because there's a great set of swift swimmers and chlorophyllers to choose from. You need pokemon with bulk and resistances so they can switch in unhurt. I say that you don't necessarily need to use the damp rock because specs politoed actually has one of the stronger water attacks in the game because of his ability. You could say that politoed and ninetales are pokemon that get 2.25 on stab instead of 1.5.
I think rain and sun in Gen VI are better playstyles than they were in Gen 4 because of the wider diversity of weather starting pokemon, which also includes pranksters like Thundurus and Klefki. Weather is an archtype to build your team around. I think when most people build a new team they start with some kind of main theme in mind, like trick room, or voltswitch, or talonflame sweep, or garchomp sweep, or hazards + phazing. Weather is just one theme to pick, and they're pretty balanced. You will be very rewarded if you can keep your own weather up, but your opponent is now in a much more fair position where he can at least stall out the weather.
I think rain and sun in Gen VI are better playstyles than they were in Gen 4 because of the wider diversity of weather starting pokemon, which also includes pranksters like Thundurus and Klefki. Weather is an archtype to build your team around. I think when most people build a new team they start with some kind of main theme in mind, like trick room, or voltswitch, or talonflame sweep, or garchomp sweep, or hazards + phazing. Weather is just one theme to pick, and they're pretty balanced. You will be very rewarded if you can keep your own weather up, but your opponent is now in a much more fair position where he can at least stall out the weather.
Garchompi
Banned deucer.
I believe hail is actually more viable now that it doesn't last forever.
Hail's main selling point was negating the other weathers and unless you're suicidal enough to run a team with more than 3 ice types the residual damage was an annoyance more than else.
Drizzle+Swift Swim is still a dangerous strategy and Abomasnow is stillt he best way to stop it as it's the only non-uber, non-Politoed weather inducer that isn't weak to water.
Unfortunately Stallrein is dead, but it was never reliable in OU anyway.
Hail's main selling point was negating the other weathers and unless you're suicidal enough to run a team with more than 3 ice types the residual damage was an annoyance more than else.
Drizzle+Swift Swim is still a dangerous strategy and Abomasnow is stillt he best way to stop it as it's the only non-uber, non-Politoed weather inducer that isn't weak to water.
Unfortunately Stallrein is dead, but it was never reliable in OU anyway.
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