Tera Melos
Banned deucer.
I'm wondering if those articles are real.
They're clearly real.
You're wondering if they're credible.
I'm wondering if those articles are real.
Ya, I think that's what I wanted to mean.They're clearly real.
You're wondering if they're credible.
The Atlantic has a definite leftward skew, but they tend to hold themselves to high journalistic standards. This local news article would seem to verify the credibility of the events.Ya, I think that's what I wanted to mean.
I want to know how credible those articles are.
I placed this here because I think "cultural appropriation" is a liberal thing.I think that the outrage over "cultural appropriation" is an inaccurate assessment to western views and not representative of what most people actually believe. It is a phenomena that has expanded with the internet to lead to shocking news articles and faux pas keyboard warrior allyship to minority groups. It's the equivalent to the super scary rad-fem aesthetic. Sure there are fringe people out there that believe in it but overall the issue is blown out of proportion, like that one show that shows crazy diets (this dude likes to only eat his UTENSILS and not real food isn't he crazy?)
On the actual topic of cultural appropriation, I think that yes there are certain things that can clearly be "appropriated" and misused and can certainly be offensive, but most cases is harmless appropriating of clothing, hairstyles, music, and whatnot. Cultural appropriation is not ok when the thing being appropriated is used by the dominant power group to stereotype or otherwise poke fun at other minority groups. An example of when it is not ok is exactly what you said, wearing a sombrero on Cinco de Mayo and a big fake mustache so you can caricature a stereotypical latino; another more extreme example of cultural appropriation is adopting blackface + wavy black hair to try to stereotype black people. An example of good cultural appropriation (re: cultural mingling) can be like when a white singer adopts a certain musical style of a different culture, such as using microtones found in Eastern music theory or by a white man making a reggae style song in homage to Bob Marley, for example.
Not really sure what this has to do with Free Speech (i guess like freedom of expression?) but that's my take on it. If you are blending cultures together to create something, or otherwise send a positive message (such as this woman using a Qipao in reference to the 1900s womens rights movements in China) then I believe that it is fine. Cultures SHOULD mingle, and often it can be an honor. Straight taking something that isn't from your culture just because you think it looks cool, not knowing the historical context behind it (re: white girl goes to Coachella in a Native American headdress) can be problematic.
I think that the reason you notice this cultural divide behind outrage versus acceptance has to do with how people are treated in those countries. For example "Asian Asians" are treated far differently in their native country than minorities are treated in America for example. less than 80 years ago Asian Americans were treated as second class, domestic threat, citizens because of their lineage, so it can feel like a real slap in the face for "the white man" who only a generation ago put Asian Americans in internment camps to suddenly adopt aspects of their culture that they find cool for their own gain. Similarly, in previously isolationist conservative cultures such as in China and Japan it can be seen as an honor for others to find aspects of their native culture so enthralling. It all has to do with historical context.
That said I am neither Asian nor any minority so I do not have that mutually shared "non-white" perspective, nor do I speak for anyone but my own views and interpretations of such a matter.
Opinions aside, there is something incredibly hurtful about the power dynamic between native Asians being seen as "emperors" and Asian Americans as "eunuchs." As if they have some lesser claim over their history, and deserve not to be taken as seriously. FWIW "Asian Asians" (as you call them) living in big homogeneous population blocks are unlikely to know the experience of being a minority and living with everyday racism. Such a notion exacerbates marginalisation twofold.2. I see that a lot of times, Asian Americans tell people "this is not ok", "that is not ok", but if you ask Asian Asians, they think it's completely ok.
We call this situation "The emperor is not worried, but the eunuchs are worried to death. " (The person involved is calm and collected, but observers are very worried... at that the observers are just being stupid)
I can see what you mean. But the phrase is an idiom, so the phrase itself doesn't suggest native Asians as "emperor" or vice versa.Opinions aside, there is something incredibly hurtful about the power dynamic between native Asians being seen as "emperors" and Asian Americans as "eunuchs." As if they have some lesser claim over their history, and deserve not to be taken as seriously. FWIW "Asian Asians" (as you call them) living in big homogeneous population blocks are unlikely to know the experience of being a minority and living with everyday racism. Such a notion exacerbates marginalisation twofold.
I think it would be better if our adjudication of appropriation were influenced by arguments and not claims to authority made on the basis of some form of cultural/genetic purity.
I realized it can be hurtful, but I don't see why people are "claiming" Asian culture as "theirs" ... especially if they don't represent the majority?You cannot cite an idiom then backtrack by saying you don't mean what the idiom actually implies (if so then why use it in the first place?).
The problem here is that you are privileging the "Asian Asians" as the "person involved" and sidelining the sentiments of the Asian American as mere "observers" (your own words this time round) i.e not "involved" or capable of claiming Asian culture as a stakeholder the same way an "Asian Asian" can. Inasmuch these observers "are just being stupid" (again your own words).
It is immaterial what "a significant amount" of "Asian Asians" think, but rather with why you think this problematic, arbitrary binary that renders Asian Americans as "observers" who are being "stupid" as opposed to the real "person involved" ("Asian Asians") in the matter is something that holds water intellectually.
I'm sure you mean well, but it would be fruitful if you took the time to reconsider assumptions instead of resorting to lateral moves and disowning things you post as other people's opinions the moment you are called out. It's irresponsible to broadcast views uncritically.
Do you think you own it?Why does he think he owns Asian culture?
No.Do you think you own it?
So wearing a dress is equivalent to a foreign country invading you?Cresselia I understand what you’re saying but what’s at play here isn’t like people asking China for permission to do a thing it’s people taking Chinese customs with no knowledge or respect for them and then China retroactively saying its okay from a distance and saying those who are Chinese and closer to the situation both proximity and emotionally aren’t allowed to protect Chinese culture from disrespect and aren’t even allowed to claim their heritage as their own.
Think of it another way imagine say, idk, Russia invaded the border towns of China in the northwest, and heartland Chinese people were saying “well they’ve live their whole lives away from us in the center they’re barely even Chinese, if Russia chooses to appreciate that land more they’re welcome within our borders.
Fundamentally appropriation is not a respectful act and even if the prevailing opinion from China is they don’t see it as a disrespectful move they actually aren’t close enough to see it for what it really is.
Of the possibly hundreds of arguments and metaphors against cultural appropriation, why of all things jews and blue jeans? That's about as far from culture as I could possibly imagineAlso, why can "POC" wear Jeans when it was invented by a Jew? Isn't that anti-semitic cultural appropriation? No, of course not, because Jews don't waste their time whining about pointless nonsense.
Which minority groups would you describe as wasting their time whining about pointless nonsense?No, of course not, because Jews don't waste their time whining about pointless nonsense.
their time is better spent bombing palestine and destabilising the middle eastNo, of course not, because Jews don't waste their time whining about pointless nonsense.
most Jews have no influence on Israeli actions and policy, and in fact there's plenty of antizionist Jews who oppose Israel's colonial crimes and work toward a free Palestine. if we could not bring antisemitic generalizations into our pro-Palestinian rhetoric i'd appreciate ittheir time is better spent bombing palestine and destabilising the middle east
but it doesn't, imowasn't talking about Israelis specifically, and i'm aware the majority over there are generally in favor of continuing colonial expansion and the repression of Palestinian resistance. it's the casual conflation of Jews with Israel and Zionism that i objected to, because in a broader context that kinda thing lays a foundation for antisemitism to rise within the Palestinian solidarity movement
fair criticism for sure. i specified because of the context here and the fact that outside of antizionist movements any antisemitism that comes up will likely be from different sources, but i see what you mean about the rhetoric subtly placing the blame where it doesn't belong and assuming naivete or ignorance on the part of Palestinian solidarity activists. definitely not my intent there and i'll be more careful to avoid that kinda bullshit in the future. thanks for keeping me accountablethis rhetoric prefigures blaming palestinian solidarity movements for complicity in the rise of white supremacist conspiracy theorists and their movements, but they don't have anything to do with each other. Palestinian solidarity movements are aware that Zionism, anti-semitism, and white supremacy are so inter-linked that all must be acted against simultaneously to have any chance of success in the Palestinian context.
i find this type of thinking profoundly condescending as well as naive, it smells like leftover Zionist propaganda that got floated when there was anti-semitic incident at a college campus and the campus Hillel (an arm of zionist propaganda and jewish heresy) asked for donations and people were like 'we gotta let these jewish students know we care, so we're going to donate to an organization that excludes anti-zionist jews, and if you mention that the organization is zionist, you're an anti-semite.' miss me w that plz.
of course the conflation of jews with israel and zionism is harmful, but I think it's unlikely that Palestinian solidarity movements would trade on that conflation because that very rhetoric is typical of the Israeli Zionist project they oppose