Then yeah. The stats are correct.It has max Evs in spatk and speed and 6 hp
Then yeah. The stats are correct.It has max Evs in spatk and speed and 6 hp
Obviously ;pThen yeah. The stats are correct.
No, it definitely won't be an OU Pokemon, but it'll have more usage than Butterfree for sure. From the amount of battles I've seen it in, it'll be NU, but it's pretty damn threatening to be sure.As soon as I heard Vivillon got Hurricane (back on release day) I knew that it would very likely get more usage than both Lilligant and and Venomoth, who are similar quiver dancers. While having 90 base speed instead of 100 (and special attack too, but that's less important) is rather unfortunate, it has a few things over both Lilligant and Venomoth, the first, and probably most important, is a much better attacking stab. Hurricane with compound eyes is very reliable, and very powerful, after one boost, you have a 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock to Garchomp, which, while isn't a premier wall or anything, but by comparison, venomoth would only be doing 71.22 - 84.35% while Lilligant is stuck doing 74.3 - 88.26% when Modest. The problem those always had wasn't walls, but having to require multiple boosts to even get past normal attacking threats. Throw in the fact that all the things that resist flying moves happen to be weak to ground, and it becomes much easier to lure away those counters (it's a shame Hidden power got nerfed). Throw in buffs to defog, and some people using sticky web over rocks, and being dual weak to SR isn't as bad as it was in previous generations.
However, the chance of it being OU are slim, since 2 boosts are preferred to guarantee kills, it has rather weak defences, doesn't really have too much in the way of going though pokemon that resist it and more than anything, Volcarona exists, who is essentially stronger, faster, bulkier, and isn't afraid of common wall types (steels) but lacking sleep powder and trades flying STAB for a Fire STAB. STAB hurricane is rather useful though, as it does give 50% chance to KO Terrakion at +1 (although a scarf one will still outspeed you), something that Volcarona can't boast.
Doing calculations, a lot of things are rather scared of +1 LO Vivillon if rocks are up, of the more bulky pokemon, these are OHKO with rocks up with either Hurricane or Bug Buzz: Fortress, Bulky DD Gyarados, Donphan, Gliscor, Kyurem-B,(87.5%), Landorus-T, Latias, Latios, Salamance, Volcarona, Mamoswine, Celebi, Reuniclus, Ninetails and Conkeldurr.
And other notes, Hippowdon has a 43.75% after rocks, Jellicent, Tentacruel and Vaporeon are easily set up on, if at full HP Vivillon can get to +2 on Rotom-W and Politoad and live (if at full) and OHKO in return with bug buzz and hurricane respectively. It can KO Scizor at +1, but since it has 56.25% chance of being KO'd by bullet punch, it probably won't be wise to risk it. Dragonite after rocks is KO-able in all variants bar the special defensive one (defensive ones do however only have a chance to be KO'd after rock, not guaranteed), but dat extreme speed.
Vivillon isn't "a shitty Pokemon" by any means, although it still probably won't be featured in OU too much (I should have really done calcs on pokemon in lower tiers, but, meh).
It will be higher than NU... Both Lilligant and Venomoth are higher than NU. I think it will be at least RU, but probably UU.No, it definitely won't be an OU Pokemon, but it'll have more usage than Butterfree for sure. From the amount of battles I've seen it in, it'll be NU, but it's pretty damn threatening to be sure.
Yeah that's a bummer right there. I'll fix the OP with that info.Note that Vivillon's base stats are actually 80 / 52 / 50 / 90 / 50 / 89 (or 90 base Speed; there is disagreement between the Serebii page and the Smogon Research thread)
It's based off of usage, and I really haven't seen many Vivillon in XY OU. Yes, Venomoth and Lilligant aren't NU, but that's because of their usage (technically, Venomoth is in BL2), not their viability. Maybe usage of Vivillon will rise in the future, but with the amount of Vivillon I've seen on PS, RU is a bit of a stretch.It will be higher than NU... Both Lilligant and Venomoth are higher than NU. I think it will be at least RU, but probably UU.
...Being RU or UU is based off of your usage in RU or UU, not your usage in OU. Seriously, you're saying you're not seeing it in the "OU" gen 6, and that makes it NU? That's not the way tiers work.It's based off of usage, and I really haven't seen many Vivillon in XY OU. Yes, Venomoth and Lilligant aren't NU, but that's because of their usage (technically, Venomoth is in BL2), not their viability. Maybe usage of Vivillon will rise in the future, but with the amount of Vivillon I've seen on PS, RU is a bit of a stretch.
I use vivillon in ou and he wrecks everyone's shit. he gets to +2 so damn easily unlike volcaronaIt's based off of usage, and I really haven't seen many Vivillon in XY OU. Yes, Venomoth and Lilligant aren't NU, but that's because of their usage (technically, Venomoth is in BL2), not their viability. Maybe usage of Vivillon will rise in the future, but with the amount of Vivillon I've seen on PS, RU is a bit of a stretch.
We don't have XY UU through NU yet, so that's how I'm basing my estimation....Being RU or UU is based off of your usage in RU or UU, not your usage in OU. Seriously, you're saying you're not seeing it in the "OU" gen 6, and that makes it NU? That's not the way tiers work.
It does, but that doesn't mean it'll be in a higher tier, just that it'll have a niche.I use vivillon in ou and he wrecks everyone's shit. he gets to +2 so damn easily unlike volcarona
Not really, without current tiers to base usage of off, the best way is to compare to other pokemon that were in tiers before, and Vivillon more powerful than Venomoth and Lilligant, meaning it should be at least RU, if not higher. Guesstimating off of current usage in "OU" doesn't really mean anything, while comparing it's power and doing calculations can give a better idea until tiers are created and stabilized. There is no point in making a "guess", but a point to make an informed decision based off of its power and ability.We don't have XY UU through NU yet, so that's how I'm basing my estimation.
Can we agree to go to middle route and guess it'll be RU?
Asdie from compoundeyes Sleep Poweder I'm not sure its more powerful than Venomoth, who has the same SpA and Speed but better defenses. Arguably better typing too.Not really, without current tiers to base usage of off, the best way is to compare to other pokemon that were in tiers before, and Vivillon more powerful than Venomoth and Lilligant, meaning it should be at least RU, if not higher.
Aren't both bug flying?Asdie from compoundeyes Sleep Poweder I'm not sure its more powerful than Venomoth, who has the same SpA and Speed but better defenses. Arguably better typing too.
Venomoth can BP and actually have the defs sufficient to setup on even chandelure locked into shadow ball.Asdie from compoundeyes Sleep Poweder I'm not sure its more powerful than Venomoth, who has the same SpA and Speed but better defenses. Arguably better typing too.
STAB compoundeyes Hurricane is a massive disagreement with that, after one boost it can provide so many more KO points than Venomoth, and at 2 boosts, that number jumps even higher. Hurricane isn't walled by a crap ton of things like bug buzz is either.Asdie from compoundeyes Sleep Poweder I'm not sure its more powerful than Venomoth, who has the same SpA and Speed but better defenses. Arguably better typing too.
Alright, so if we compare it's power to other QDancers, I think I can agree on RU/UU. It is really powerful after all.Not really, without current tiers to base usage of off, the best way is to compare to other pokemon that were in tiers before, and Vivillon more powerful than Venomoth and Lilligant, meaning it should be at least RU, if not higher. Guesstimating off of current usage in "OU" doesn't really mean anything, while comparing it's power and doing calculations can give a better idea until tiers are created and stabilized. There is no point in making a "guess", but a point to make an informed decision based off of its power and ability.
Nah, I highly doubt this thing will be OU, even if it's speed was actually 100. Staraptor and Volcarona are bulkier, which is actually quite sad; it's just too frail for the higher tiers, where 100 speed is considered only decent.The fact that this thing gets Hurricane is just ooooooooooozing with flavor and automatically makes Vivillon one of my favorite Pokemon of all time. I mean, it's the freaking Butterfly Effect!!
I'm still holding out that Serebii's stats are a bit off, because a base speed of 100 would DEFINITELY make it OU. It is such a versatile Pokemon and will be so often underestimated, that it'll end up wiping a lot of people.
Vivi shouldn't be used n the Sun her biggest draw is that sexy 92% STAB Hurricane coming off of a decent 90 Base SpA... wish her bulk wasn't so terrible and had 90 Speed... GF outdid themselves with Early Mons... Diggersby has Huge Power STAB EQ plus a higher attack stat that Azumarill which is already a Monster because of that abilityah just realized, terrible
sunny day support
sleep powder, quiver dance, bug buzz/psychic, solarbeam
What are u running on your Vivillon if you don't mind me asking?I use vivillon in ou and he wrecks everyone's shit. he gets to +2 so damn easily unlike volcarona